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Wynn Resorts, Limited logo
Wynn Resorts, Limited
WYNN · US · NASDAQ
74.04
USD
-0.16
(0.22%)
Executives
Name Title Pay
Mr. Brian Gullbrants Chief Operating Officer - North America --
Mr. Craig Scott Billings Chief Executive Officer & Director 4.67M
Ms. Julie Mireille Cameron-Doe Chief Financial Officer 1.98M
Mr. Robert Amerine Vice President – Corporate Finance --
Mr. Erik Hansen Chief Sustainability Officer --
Mr. Dean Lawrence SVice President & Chief Financial Officer of Wynn Las Vegas, LLC --
Mr. DeRuyter O. Butler Executive Vice President of Architecture of Wynn Design & Development, LLC 355K
Mr. Michael Weaver Chief Communications Officer --
Mr. Thomas Schoen President of Wynn Al Marjan Island --
Ms. Ellen Fae Whittemore Executive Vice President, General Counsel & Secretary 1.9M
Insider Transactions
Date Name Title Acquisition Or Disposition Stock / Options # of Shares Price
2024-05-13 Myers Margaret Jane director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 98.05
2024-05-28 ATKINS BETSY S director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2446 94.39
2024-05-02 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 Liu Paul Albert director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-05-02 STROM DARNELL O. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 2696 0
2024-05-02 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2696 0
2024-04-18 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4464 96.1
2024-02-28 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2015 102.86
2024-02-29 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 654 105.2
2024-02-28 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1317 102.86
2024-02-28 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6733 102.86
2024-02-29 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1336 105.2
2024-02-09 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 960 105.17
2024-02-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6383 58.85
2024-02-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6383 105.27
2024-02-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 6383 58.85
2024-02-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10902 58.85
2024-02-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10902 108
2024-02-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8333 108
2024-02-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10902 58.85
2024-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 654 93.9
2024-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1606 94.11
2024-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 992 94.11
2024-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1377 94.11
2024-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 943 94.11
2024-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1336 93.9
2024-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6880 94.11
2024-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4939 94.11
2024-01-09 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9094 0
2024-01-09 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7441 0
2024-01-09 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10392 0
2024-01-09 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4180 95.26
2024-01-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5236 0
2024-01-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7854 0
2024-01-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10969 0
2024-01-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4407 95.26
2024-01-09 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Performance Share Units 4364 0
2024-01-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25825 0
2024-01-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 38737 0
2024-01-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 28868 0
2024-01-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 11451 95.26
2024-01-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Performance Share Units 21521 0
2023-12-12 Liu Paul Albert director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3000 0
2023-11-28 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1453 0
2023-11-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6915 90.65
2023-09-14 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 500 97.61
2023-08-14 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 250 100.01
2023-08-03 Liu Paul Albert director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2023-06-20 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1000 104.96
2023-05-25 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1100 101.65
2023-05-04 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-05-04 STROM DARNELL O. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 2286 0
2023-05-04 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-05-04 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-05-04 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-05-04 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-05-04 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 0
2023-04-18 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4464 112.15
2023-03-16 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10901 58.85
2023-03-16 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10901 103.26
2023-03-16 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10901 58.85
2023-03-08 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2514 113.54
2023-03-08 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - D-Return Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 896 0
2023-03-08 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 688 113.54
2023-03-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6940 113.54
2023-03-08 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - D-Return Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1833 0
2023-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1968 112.22
2023-02-22 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4000 58.85
2023-02-22 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4000 108.08
2023-02-22 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 4000 58.85
2023-02-10 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10383 58.85
2023-02-10 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10383 109.48
2023-02-10 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10383 58.85
2023-01-31 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 261 0
2023-01-31 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 103 103.64
2023-01-31 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 261 0
2023-01-31 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 103 103.64
2023-01-31 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 522 0
2023-01-31 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 206 103.64
2023-01-26 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10310 102.35
2023-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9235 0
2023-01-14 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1410 100.25
2023-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7556 0
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4791 0
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7188 0
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8996 0
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3488 98.61
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1443 98.61
2023-01-12 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Performance Share Units 3994 0
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25099 0
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 37649 0
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Performance Share Units 20916 0
2023-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8996 0
2023-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3540 98.61
2023-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 722 96.24
2023-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1605 98.61
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 17992 0
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7080 98.61
2023-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1389 96.24
2023-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6880 98.61
2022-12-16 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2886 86.01
2022-12-01 ATKINS BETSY S director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5707 83.65
2022-11-09 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6915 68.28
2022-09-19 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 100 64.54
2022-09-19 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1600 66.09
2022-09-19 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 300 66.92
2022-08-08 Mulroy Patricia D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 67.11
2022-07-15 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 394 55.47
2022-05-11 STROM DARNELL O. A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 475 0
2022-05-11 Webb Winifred Markus A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1643 0
2022-05-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10383 0
2022-05-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10383 58.85
2022-05-11 SATRE PHILIP G A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3251 0
2022-05-11 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10383 0
2022-05-11 Billings Craig Scott CEO A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 21803 0
2022-05-11 ATKINS BETSY S A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1677 0
2022-05-05 Webb Winifred Markus A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 STROM DARNELL O. A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 3474 0
2022-05-05 SATRE PHILIP G A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 Randt Clark T. Jr. A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 Myers Margaret Jane A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 Mulroy Patricia A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 Byrne Richard J A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-05-05 ATKINS BETSY S A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3474 0
2022-04-25 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15735 0
2022-04-18 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 34033 0
2022-04-18 CAMERON-DOE JULIE CFO D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2022-03-01 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2286 81.64
2022-03-01 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - D-Return Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 281 0
2022-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8438 81.64
2022-02-11 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 94.25
2022-01-31 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 32364 85.45
2022-01-31 MADDOX MATT CEO D - D-Return Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 75462 0
2022-01-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5365 91.05
2022-01-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10495 91.85
2022-01-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3766 92.71
2022-01-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 374 93.45
2022-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 18357 0
2022-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8158 0
2022-01-12 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3210 85.8
2022-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2039 85.3
2022-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 78672 0
2022-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13986 0
2022-01-12 Billings Craig Scott CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5504 85.8
2022-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4195 85.3
2022-01-12 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 29137 0
2022-01-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 11466 85.8
2022-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 14126 85.3
2021-12-23 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20000 90.08
2021-12-08 ATKINS BETSY S director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4095 87.8
2021-11-11 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 92.17
2021-11-09 Billings Craig Scott CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 52715 0
2021-11-04 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15740 91.1
2021-08-18 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2592 92.35
2021-08-18 Billings Craig Scott CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5303 92.35
2021-08-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9642 92.35
2021-08-11 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 97.13
2021-07-15 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 394 108.23
2021-06-01 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1500 135
2021-05-17 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 125.3
2021-05-13 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2500 0
2021-05-11 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 STROM DARNELL O. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 2010 0
2021-05-11 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-05-11 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2010 0
2021-03-25 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3015 127.5
2021-03-01 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2361 131.79
2021-02-16 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 119.79
2021-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9952 0
2021-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2851 0
2021-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1122 108.03
2021-01-11 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20366 0
2021-01-11 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4887 0
2021-01-11 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1923 108.03
2021-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 55542 0
2021-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10182 0
2021-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4007 108.03
2021-01-05 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2500 108.13
2021-01-04 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4673 113.5
2020-12-30 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 21645 112.94
2020-12-30 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 28355 113.42
2021-01-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5966 112.83
2020-11-16 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 98.19
2020-11-09 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1970 100
2020-11-09 Billings Craig Scott President and CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7583 100
2020-11-05 STROM DARNELL O. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 3000 0
2020-11-04 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15740 76.12
2020-10-14 STROM DARNELL O. director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2020-08-31 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 400 90.54
2020-08-18 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6585 0
2020-08-18 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13476 0
2020-08-18 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 24501 0
2020-08-18 MADDOX MATT CEO D - D-Return Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 140000 0
2020-08-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2453 88.72
2020-07-15 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 394 86.74
2020-06-24 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 443 75.21
2020-06-24 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1968 75.21
2020-06-24 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 19675 75.21
2020-06-24 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-06-24 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3324 0
2020-05-19 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6000 84.77
2020-03-23 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 930 0
2020-03-23 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 307 0
2020-03-23 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 307 0
2020-03-23 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 930 0
2020-03-23 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 930 0
2020-03-23 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2480 0
2020-03-23 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 930 0
2020-03-23 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 930 0
2020-03-23 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3929 0
2020-03-23 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 32071 0
2020-03-23 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9621 0
2020-03-01 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 443 107.98
2020-03-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 19675 107.98
2020-03-01 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4329 107.98
2020-02-26 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7332 0
2020-02-26 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 180000 0
2020-01-14 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7332 0
2020-01-14 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6398 0
2020-01-14 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2518 150.03
2020-01-14 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7166 0
2020-01-14 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3732 0
2020-01-14 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1469 150.03
2020-01-14 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 39994 0
2020-01-14 MADDOX MATT CEO A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13330 0
2020-01-14 MADDOX MATT CEO D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5245 150.03
2019-12-02 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 17303 119.89
2019-12-02 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5446 120.56
2019-12-02 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2251 121.54
2019-11-18 Billings Craig Scott President, CFO and Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3750 119.85
2019-11-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3847 121.36
2019-11-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8016 122.11
2019-11-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13137 123.01
2019-10-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3223 109.38
2019-10-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 14280 110.07
2019-10-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6255 110.79
2019-10-01 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1242 111.75
2019-09-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1769 114.92
2019-09-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4039 116.07
2019-09-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4876 117.07
2019-09-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 11651 117.84
2019-09-12 MADDOX MATT CEO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2665 118.76
2019-08-28 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 900 104.16
2019-05-15 Mulroy Patricia director D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1516.34 0
2019-05-15 Mulroy Patricia director A - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1516.34 0
2019-05-15 JOHNSON JAY L director D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 327 0
2019-05-15 JOHNSON JAY L director A - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 327 0
2018-11-30 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 12.351 109.4
2018-08-28 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9.45 147.96
2018-05-29 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7.049 193.39
2018-02-27 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1.946 168.75
2017-11-28 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2.02 157.5
2017-08-22 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2.368 136.15
2017-05-23 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2.607 124.15
2019-05-06 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-02-26 Mulroy Patricia director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3.16 129.77
2018-12-03 Mulroy Patricia director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3.4 119.79
2018-08-29 Mulroy Patricia director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2.72 148.76
2018-05-30 Mulroy Patricia director A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2.06 195.67
2019-05-06 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2019-05-06 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 17870 141.36
2019-05-06 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2019-05-06 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-05-06 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1768 0
2019-03-12 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 425 118.02
2019-03-01 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 274 125.12
2019-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4329 125.12
2019-03-01 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 19675 125.12
2019-02-04 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2019-02-04 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 18900 124.15
2019-02-04 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2019-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6606 0
2019-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2642 0
2019-01-11 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1040 113.55
2019-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 52842 0
2019-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 22016 0
2019-01-11 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8663 113.55
2019-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 14092 0
2019-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7705 0
2019-01-11 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3032 113.55
2018-11-13 SATRE PHILIP G director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9800 103.006
2018-08-03 SATRE PHILIP G director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 0
2018-08-03 Byrne Richard J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 0
2018-08-03 SATRE PHILIP G director D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2018-08-03 SATRE PHILIP G director I - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2018-08-03 Byrne Richard J director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2018-08-02 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7500 0
2018-07-16 Whittemore Ellen F EVP and General Counsel D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2018-05-15 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 Webb Winifred Markus director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 0
2018-05-15 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 Myers Margaret Jane director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 0
2018-05-15 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1309 0
2018-05-15 ATKINS BETSY S director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2000 0
2018-05-02 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 47.12
2018-05-02 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6843 191.53
2018-05-02 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3157 192.16
2018-05-02 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 47.12
2018-05-01 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 107.95
2018-05-01 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 18450 191.09
2018-05-01 MADDOX MATT CEO and President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 107.95
2018-04-17 Webb Winifred Markus director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2018-04-17 Myers Margaret Jane director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2018-04-17 ATKINS BETSY S director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2018-04-17 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 0
2018-04-17 MADDOX MATT CEO and President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 0
2018-03-22 WYNN STEPHEN A 10 percent owner D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8026708 175
2018-03-21 WYNN STEPHEN A 10 percent owner D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4104999 180
2018-02-27 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - L-Small Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9 165.95
2018-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2358 163.42
2017-12-22 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5365 0
2017-12-22 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2251 167.75
2017-12-22 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7153 0
2017-12-22 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3001 167.75
2017-12-22 MADDOX MATT President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10730 0
2017-12-22 MADDOX MATT President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4502 167.75
2017-12-22 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 89418 0
2017-12-22 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 37511 167.75
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 107.95
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 58258 155.11
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1002 155.74
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2017-11-13 MADDOX MATT President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 107.95
2017-11-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5000 84.28
2017-11-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 47.12
2017-11-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15000 151.74
2017-11-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 47.12
2017-11-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 5000 84.28
2017-11-08 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 107.95
2017-11-08 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20795 152.03
2017-11-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15 152.07
2017-11-08 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 107.95
2017-11-03 IRANI RAY R director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 138.43
2017-11-03 IRANI RAY R director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 138.43
2017-09-15 MADDOX MATT President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 107.95
2017-09-15 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 40833 143.41
2017-09-15 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2067 144.03
2017-09-15 MADDOX MATT President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 107.95
2017-09-15 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 107.95
2017-09-15 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 21451 143.62
2017-09-15 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 107.95
2017-07-31 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3000 68.25
2017-07-31 Randt Clark T. Jr. director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 3000 68.25
2017-07-31 Randt Clark T. Jr. director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3000 129
2017-06-16 MADDOX MATT President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 107.95
2017-06-16 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 44309 134.35
2017-06-16 MADDOX MATT President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 107.95
2017-06-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 107.95
2017-06-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 22624 129.12
2017-06-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 107.95
2017-05-16 Hagenbuch John J director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1100 128.5
2017-05-17 Hagenbuch John J director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50 126.23
2017-05-16 Mulroy Patricia director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3300 68.25
2017-05-16 Mulroy Patricia director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 3300 68.25
2017-05-16 Mulroy Patricia director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2226 128.08
2017-04-27 MADDOX MATT President A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 60000 47.12
2017-04-27 MADDOX MATT President D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 60000 124.25
2017-04-27 MADDOX MATT President D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 60000 47.12
2017-04-20 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 IRANI RAY R director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-04-20 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2152 0
2017-03-06 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20000 100.38
2017-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 0
2017-03-01 Billings Craig Scott CFO and Treasurer D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2017-02-28 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 100000 0
2017-02-28 MADDOX MATT President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 200000 0
2017-02-21 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7342 95.97
2017-01-19 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 137468 0
2017-01-19 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 57668 90.93
2017-01-19 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 8248 0
2017-01-19 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3460 90.93
2017-01-19 MADDOX MATT President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 16496 0
2017-01-19 MADDOX MATT President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6920 90.93
2017-01-19 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9347 0
2017-01-19 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3921 90.93
2017-01-02 Cootey Stephen Lawrence CFO, SVP and Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1391 86.51
2016-12-14 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 37500 93.83
2016-12-13 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 72851 0
2016-12-05 MADDOX MATT President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20975 98.37
2016-12-05 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10488 98.37
2016-11-29 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 47.12
2016-11-29 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 41743 99.76
2016-11-29 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 600 100.22
2016-11-29 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 47.12
2016-11-09 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 37500 87.12
2016-08-22 JOHNSON JAY L director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 97.1
2016-08-22 JOHNSON JAY L director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2016-04-13 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 IRANI RAY R director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-13 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2559 0
2016-04-11 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - J-Other Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 52549 98.78
2016-04-11 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - J-Other Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20302 98.78
2016-02-22 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1049 77.18
2016-02-09 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6268 59.77
2016-02-09 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 18958 58.98
2016-02-09 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 28646 58.19
2016-02-09 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10761 56.98
2016-02-08 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13887 59.23
2016-02-08 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 74736 58.57
2016-02-08 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 105267 57.67
2016-01-22 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15549 59.19
2016-01-22 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 139451 58.64
2016-01-21 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25374 55.95
2016-01-21 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 12476 54.81
2016-01-20 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 65591 55.78
2016-01-20 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 123972 55.23
2016-01-20 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 40101 53.8
2016-01-20 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 150336 53.21
2016-01-14 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 98627 0
2016-01-14 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 169902 0
2016-01-14 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 71275 51.5
2016-01-14 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 11650 0
2016-01-14 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3754 51.5
2016-01-14 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13203 0
2016-01-14 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4632 51.5
2016-01-14 MADDOX MATT President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 23300 0
2016-01-14 MADDOX MATT President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 9775 51.5
2015-12-31 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer - 0 0
2015-12-08 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 168175 63.1
2015-12-08 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 266614 62.41
2015-12-07 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 320960 64.44
2015-12-07 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 85054 63.91
2015-12-04 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 163174 64.29
2012-09-28 Wynn Family Limited Partnership director D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2015-10-20 IRANI RAY R director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 35467 67.99
2015-10-19 IRANI RAY R director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4533 68
2015-10-19 Randt Clark T. Jr. director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 68.25
2015-10-19 Mulroy Patricia director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 68.25
2015-10-15 Randt Clark T. Jr. director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2015-10-15 Mulroy Patricia director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2015-07-31 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 104.99
2015-05-06 Hagenbuch John J director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5000 115.8
2015-05-06 Hagenbuch John J director A - P-Purchase Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 850 115
2015-04-23 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-04-23 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-04-23 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-04-23 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-04-23 IRANI RAY R director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-04-23 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1951 0
2015-02-23 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 1049 154.33
2015-02-13 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 52.94
2015-02-13 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 159
2015-02-13 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 52.94
2015-01-26 WYNN ELAINE P director D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 69257 0
2015-01-15 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5756 0
2015-01-15 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2262 147.65
2015-01-15 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10159 0
2015-01-15 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4262 147.65
2015-01-15 MADDOX MATT President A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10159 0
2015-01-15 MADDOX MATT President D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4262 147.65
2015-01-15 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5079 0
2015-01-15 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 67727 0
2015-01-15 WYNN STEPHEN A Chief Executive Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 28412 147.65
2014-11-07 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 52.94
2014-11-07 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 52.94
2014-10-30 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 187.76
2014-05-16 Cootey Stephen Lawrence CFO, SVP and Treasurer D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2014-05-16 Cootey Stephen Lawrence CFO, SVP and Treasurer D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2014-05-15 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-15 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-15 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-15 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-15 IRANI RAY R director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-15 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 4300 201.22
2014-05-12 MADDOX MATT President and CFO D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2014-05-12 MADDOX MATT President and CFO A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2014-05-12 MADDOX MATT President and CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 12697 204.02
2014-05-12 MADDOX MATT President and CFO D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3991 204.88
2014-05-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 47.12
2014-05-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 47.12
2014-05-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 13807 198.74
2014-05-09 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 100 199.2
2014-05-05 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7500 0
2014-05-05 Sinatra Kimmarie EVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2473 216.65
2014-02-24 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4600 230
2014-02-20 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 225.5
2014-02-21 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 226.5
2014-02-07 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 218
2014-02-07 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 220
2014-02-06 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 40
2014-02-06 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 6371 215.23
2014-02-06 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 3629 216.38
2014-02-06 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 40
2014-02-06 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 216
2014-02-04 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5000 211.57
2014-02-03 WYNN ELAINE P director D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 51021 0
2014-02-03 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 7492 215.3
2014-02-03 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 2508 215.92
2014-02-03 MADDOX MATT President, CFO & Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 14133 206.57
2014-02-03 MADDOX MATT President, CFO & Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 14967 207.37
2014-02-03 MADDOX MATT President, CFO & Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 900 208
2013-11-18 MADDOX MATT President, CFO & Treasurer A - A-Award Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 0
2013-11-18 MADDOX MATT President, CFO & Treasurer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 4195 163.59
2013-11-14 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 168.38
2013-11-13 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 47.12
2013-11-13 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 47.12
2013-11-13 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 170
2013-10-30 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 47.12
2013-10-30 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 47.12
2013-10-30 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 170
2013-09-09 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2013-09-09 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc D - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2013-09-09 STRZEMP JOHN EVP, Chief Administrative Ofc I - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2013-05-31 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 83900 135.89
2013-05-14 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 142
2013-05-08 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5000 139
2013-05-06 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 47.12
2013-05-06 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 47.12
2013-05-06 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 138.92
2013-05-06 MADDOX MATT CFO, Treasurer D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2013-05-06 MADDOX MATT CFO, Treasurer A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2013-05-06 MADDOX MATT CFO, Treasurer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 18600 138.2
2013-05-06 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 140
2013-05-06 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 139
2013-05-06 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 47.12
2013-05-06 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 47.12
2013-05-06 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 15600 138.8
2013-05-06 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-05-06 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-05-06 IRANI RAY R director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-05-06 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-05-06 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-05-06 SHOEMAKER ALVIN V director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 6300 138.68
2013-04-30 MILLER ROBERT JOS director D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 5000 136.92
2013-02-22 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - F-InKind Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20975 117.34
2013-02-04 WYNN ELAINE P director D - G-Gift Common Stock, par value $0.01 82795 0
2012-12-13 Hagenbuch John J director I - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2012-12-18 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 114
2012-12-18 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 60400 114.48
2012-12-19 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 114.5
2012-12-17 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 114.09
2012-12-17 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 113.04
2012-12-13 GOLDSMITH RUSSELL D - 0 0
2012-12-13 ZEMAN ALLAN - 0 0
2012-12-13 Hagenbuch John J director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 114.22
2012-12-13 Hagenbuch John J director I - Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 0 0
2012-12-13 Hagenbuch John J director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2012-11-30 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 112.56
2012-12-03 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 114.57
2012-11-02 VIRTUE J EDWARD director D - No Securities Owned 0 0
2012-11-29 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 112
2012-11-02 VIRTUE J EDWARD director A - A-Award Stock Options (right to buy) 10000 120.8
2012-11-15 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 20000 104.0037
2012-11-16 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - S-Sale Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 105
2012-11-05 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 50000 47.12
2012-11-05 SCHORR MARC D Chief Operating Officer A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 50000 47.12
2012-11-05 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2012-11-05 Chen Linda Pres, Wynn Int'l Marketing D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2012-11-05 MADDOX MATT CFO, Treasurer D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 30000 47.12
2012-11-05 MADDOX MATT CFO, Treasurer A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 30000 47.12
2012-11-05 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary D - M-Exempt Stock Options (right to buy) 25000 47.12
2012-11-05 Sinatra Kimmarie SVP/General Counsel/Secretary A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 25000 47.12
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 52.94
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 40
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 13.74
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director D - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 52.94
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director D - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 13.74
2012-10-31 MORAN JOHN A director D - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 40
2012-11-01 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 40
2012-11-01 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 15.63
2012-11-01 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director D - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 15.63
2012-11-01 WAYSON DANIEL BOONE director D - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 40
2012-10-31 MILLER ROBERT JOS director A - M-Exempt Common Stock, par value $0.01 per share 10000 52.94
Transcripts
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. All participants are on a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator. And good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings; and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto, and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Good afternoon. As always, thank you for joining us today. I want to start by saying thank you to my nearly 28,000 colleagues here at Wynn Resorts for delivering yet another record quarter. In this case, the best second quarter EBITDA in the history of the company at $572 million. Record quarters like this one further strengthen our conviction when deploying capital, whether through CapEx or share repurchases like those we executed in the second quarter and into the third quarter. Wynn Las Vegas delivered $230 million of adjusted property EBITDAR, a second quarter record and up 3% year-on-year on yet another very difficult comp, taking trailing 12-month EBITDAR to nearly $970 million. The quarter was led by 16% growth in hotel revenue along with 8% growth in slot handle and healthy table drop in the casino. Wynn Las Vegas continues to have the top-performing team here in Vegas. More recently, demand has remained healthy in 3Q with RevPAR up and slot handle broadly in line year-on-year during July, despite this year having two fewer weekend days. Turning to Boston. Encore generated $62 million of EBITDAR during the quarter. Lower-than-normal table hold, masked what was actually a strong quarter across the property with record slot handle, strong table drop and record RevPAR in the hotel. More recently, demand has remained healthy through July with table drops, slot handle and RevPAR all up on a tough year-on-year comp. Turning to Macau. We generated $280 million of EBITDAR in the second quarter on slightly lower market share than we have experienced over the previous several quarters and slightly lower mass hold quarter-over-quarter. There has been a lot of chatter in the market about the elevated promotional environment in Macau with concessionaires jockey for market share. Of course, while we are active every day in the hand-to-hand combat for market share, you can't take market share to the bank, and thus, we have continued to remain disciplined in our OpEx and player reinvestment levels highlighted by our strong EBITDAR margin in the quarter, which was 250 basis points above 2Q 2019. We've seen this dynamic before, and we remain confident that our market-leading product and service levels position us well to compete effectively in the long-term. To that end, we were encouraged that our GGR market share moved back to our expected range in July, supported by strong mass table drop and 99% hotel occupancy during the month. Wynn Macau's long-term outlook remains very bright. On the development front, we continue to elevate our product offering in Macau through new and innovative food and beverage concepts and unique program. We also continue to advance construction work on our second major concession-related project, our destination food hall, which we expect to open in 2025. Turning to our Wynn Al Marjan Island development in the UAE. I just returned from several weeks in Dubai and Russell China. Construction is rapidly progressing on the project with work now approaching the 15th floor of the hotel. The building now stands just over 90 meters, which is already the tallest building in the Emirate. During the second quarter, we contributed $357 million of equity to our UAE joint venture. This transaction included the purchase of our 40% pro rata share of all 155 acres of Island 3, the island on which Wynn Al Marjan sits. As a result, our joint venture now owns not only the land under Wynn Al Marjan, but also 70-plus acres of land for potential future development on the Island. Of course, we have banked land before in the US and Macau, and we are confident that acquiring this sizable Al Marjan land bank will prove valuable over the long term. As I have noted before, I believe the UAE is the most exciting new market for our industry in decades and our confidence in the demand and EBITDA potential of Wynn Al Marjan continues to grow. We also made meaningful progress during the quarter on the debt financing for the project and expect that we will finalize that financing later in 2024. I remain incredibly bullish about the future of our company. We have the best assets in the world's premier gaming markets. We also have an exciting high ROI development project in the UAE well underway a development opportunity that is unique in our industry. And we are exploring potential greenfield opportunities in attractive gateway cities like New York and Bangkok. Meanwhile, our leverage profile continues to improve as free cash flow grows, allowing us to increase the return of capital to shareholders through the recurring dividend and opportunistic share repurchases. Our best days lie ahead. With that, I will now turn it over to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter. Julie?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $230.3 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $628.7 million of operating revenue during the quarter, delivering an EBITDA margin of 36.6%. Lower than normal table games hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $5 million in Q2. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day was $4.2 million in Q2 compared to $3.7 million in the prior year period. The increase was primarily due to union-related payroll increases, along with higher variable costs due to increased volumes across the business. Turning to Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $62.1 million on revenue of $212.6 million with an EBITDA margin of 29.2%. As Craig alluded to, our table game hold was below normal during the quarter. And if we normalize hold in both periods, EBITDA would have increased approximately 2% year-on-year. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day of $1.15 million, flat year-on-year and down sequentially. The team has done a great job mitigating union-related payroll increases with cost efficiencies in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $280.4 million in the quarter on $885.3 million of operating revenue, hold was a mixed bag in the quarter as higher than normal hold at Palace was more than offset by lower than normal hold at -- Wynn Macau, particularly in our mass table business. All in, we estimate hold negatively impacted EBITDA, the combined properties by around $3 million during the quarter. EBITDA margin was 31.7% in the quarter, an increase of 250 basis points, relative to Q2 2019. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.5 million per day in Q2, a decrease of 19% compared to $3.2 million in Q2 2019, and down 3% on a sequential basis. The team has done a great job of staying disciplined on costs, and we remain well-positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the market continues to recover. In terms of CapEx in Macau, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on several of our concession commitments. And as we noted, the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx outcomes in the near-term. As such, we continue to expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $350 million and $500 million in total, between 2024 and the end of 2025. Moving on to the balance sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of over $3.9 billion as of June 30th. This was comprised of $2.2 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau, and $1.7 billion in the US. During the quarter, we continued to reduce gross debt, repaying approximately $170 million on our bank facilities, and we have now reduced companywide gross debt by more than $1.1 billion over the past year. The combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally, with our properties generating nearly $2.4 billion of trailing 12 month property EBITDA. Together with our robust cash position creates a very healthy consolidated net leverage ratio of just over four times. Our strong free cash flow and liquidity profile allows us to reduce leverage while returning capital to shareholders in both the US and Macau. To that end, the Wynn Resorts Board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share, payable on August 30, 2024, to stockholders of record as of August 19, 2024. We also opportunistically repurchased approximately 741,000 shares for $68 million during the quarter. Similarly, in June, Wynn Macau paid a dividend of $0.075 cents per share or US$50 million, highlighting our commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $94 million, primarily related to the villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas, concession related CapEx in Macau, and normal course maintenance across the business. Additionally, as Craig noted, we contributed $356.5 million of equity to the Wynn Al Marjan Island project during the quarter, bringing our total equity contribution to date to $514.4 million, split approximately $300 million for Wynn Al Marjan and a little over $200 million for the Marjan land bank and related infrastructure. We estimate our remaining 40% pro rata share of the required equity is approximately $900 million, fully loaded for capitalized interest fees and certain improvements on the island. Importantly, as Craig noted, we've also made meaningful progress on the debt financing for the project with significant interest from a diverse group of banks both locally in the region as well as internationally. We expect the financing will be completed later this year, and we will update you in due course. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. Craig, you spoke a little bit about Las Vegas, the comfort you're seeing, the trends in July, acknowledging obviously August booking window is short, September some group on the books, and fourth quarter probably very limited visibility at this point outside of the group bookings. How would you characterize kind of the back half of the year, and could you talk a little bit about kind of that group footprint that's already in place?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Carlo. I'll start, and then I'll ask Brian to talk a bit about group in Q3, Q4. I noticed subsequent to one of our peers reporting the other day that there were some thoughts around Q4, some concerns around Q4. As you said, actually, the booking window is relatively short other than for group and then certain special events F1 in particular and so you know we don't we're not seeing anything of concern per se with respect to Q4. F1, specifically which I know was mentioned extensively again on a Pierce call, F1, they're really top-notch operators, and unlike last year when they heavily marketed throughout the year, they just started their big marketing push for the race this month, August. So I'm sure the race will be well executed. Our experience during last year's F1, and more recently during the Super Bowl, tells us that we will be the place to see and be seen during the race, and so we're confident that we'll do just fine and get more than our fair share. Brian, group in Q3 and Q4, and any other thoughts on the back half of the year?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Thanks, Craig. Carlo, Q3 continues to pace very well. It's solid. August and September look even better than July. And when we look to Q4, pacing well for the year will be the best year we've ever had in group and convention. And 2025 seems to be pacing actually ahead of that, all with strong ADR growth. So the sales team has done a phenomenal job, and our yield management team and revenue management continues to yield because of that strong base, so it helps all segments. So I think we're in solid shape and we're encouraged by what we're seeing.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thanks, Brian. And then, Craig, if I could ask a follow-up. You guys have repurchased year-to-date as of 6.30 [ph], it looks like, about $80 million of stock. I think Julie said $68 million in the quarter in the release. When you look at kind of current valuation, looked at many different ways, but obviously just about any way you cut it, the embedded implied valuation for the domestic assets at the very least is seemingly compelling from a buyback perspective, acknowledging there is significant capital going out the door related to UAE. How do you think about kind of perhaps accelerating some of the buyback activity?
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Carlo. Well, as you know, you've followed the company for a long time. We're not programmatic buyers of the stock, and we tend to buy back more when it is particularly cheap. So you're right. To that end, we did purchase in the quarter and we continued to purchase into July and actually the first few days of August, actually. We still have some $365 million of capacity under the Board authorization. We're really balancing all of our liquidity needs between capital deployment for growth, the UAE, potentially other greenfield markets, delevering slightly and returning capital to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases. Fortunately, we're in a position to do all of that. And so as you rightly know, it's really a question of quantum, and we'll continue to be opportunistic about it.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. You may go ahead.
Joe Greff:
Hey Craig, earlier, you had mentioned that you saw a nice rebound in market share in July. That was more of a directional comment than one with any specific numbers associated with that. Would you say the share is back to the GGR share that you saw in the 1Q? Or is it really more approaching that level? And then related to that, Craig, are you seeing in July and August-to-date, as you're seeing GGR share improve, are you seeing an associated lift in the non-gaming revenues as well?
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Joe. Well, to your second question first, there's always a relationship given the way that GAAP requires you to book rooms revenue associated with the casino. There's always a relationship between casino volumes, quality of customers and room rates. With respect to retail -- the retail component of non-gaming, I think the situation with respect to luxury retail in China is hopefully well understood. I think you've seen a lot of the large luxury retailers come out and make commentary on the topic. And of course, Macau and Hong Kong are not immune. I think what we've experienced is pretty consistent with our peers who have comparable retail footprint. To the first question that you raised, we're not going to provide specific numbers, but we were pleased with the bounce back in July. And as you know, market share can bounce around here and there. over the course of any given year or any given quarter. And as I said in my prepared remarks, you can't take market share to the bank. So, what we don't want to do is completely blow out our reinvestment levels and pursue a market share doesn't drive meaningful flow-through. So, we are being disciplined with respect to reinvestment and being aggressive in terms of going out and getting business.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thank you for that. And then with respect to your UAE project, I heard all of the things that you said, including the timeline for completing the debt financing when do you think we'll actually have specific regulations out there and specifically when you get a license? I know it's been a while now?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Thanks, Joe. Well, First of all, we were delighted with the public announcement of the GCGRA, the Federal regulatory body for gaming. If you -- for, I guess, you and everybody else on the call, if you haven't taking a look at their website, we encourage you to do that. The members of that body are some of the luminaries of the industry and very, very experienced regulators. The establishment of the GCGRA creates -- hopefully creates incremental clarity for investors and financing sources. It certainly has on the financing -- on the bank financing side. And then you'll also note that they recently awarded a lottery license for the UAE, and I think that, that hopefully again, gives folks comfort. I assume that they will be moving forward next -- to the next step in our licensure. I don't have a specific time line for you, but you can see all the momentum that's happening there.
Joe Greff:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Craig or Julie -- one thing we've been watching in the data is on the visitation front into Macau. In the second quarter, in particular, these are market-wide stats. It looks like it sort of fell a little bit below trend line and a little bit below the pace of recovery we have been seeing in prior quarters. I'm curious, do you see something similar in volumes to the property? Perhaps you probably see it maybe it would be a little bit more acute at the Peninsula appreciate base mass isn't really necessarily the pond that you swim in. But -- just kind of what are you seeing on that visitation front? And have some of those stresses or factors improved at all in July so far, early August or vice versa, it deteriorated at all? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Shaun. Yeah, I'm sure you saw the news flow with respect to -- it was nearly a single day, but with respect to the recent visitation record, your -- you're right, we don't really swim in that pond. It's not about the number of bodies, it's about the quality of the bodies. You're also correct that, if we had to pick up one of the two properties that was more exposed to that, it would be downtown, and I can't say that, that was a meaningful -- that had a meaningful impact rather during the second quarter, it was really about share. We have to fight for share every day. That's what we need to do. So I don't -- we don't really watch visitation numbers and think about the broader impact on our business because, again, for us, it's about who's there, not how many are there.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. And then just maybe as a follow-up, just on the -- on the spend per visit. Have you seen any changes in patterns again outside of maybe the luxury piece, which you called out earlier? Just anything sort of else of note behaviorally for the customers that did come and obviously, they're -- maybe they're looking for demanding a little bit more on the promotional reinvestment front, but just anything behaviorally or across different status levels, base mass versus premium massive note?
Craig Billings:
No. There's a lot of crosscurrents happening in the economy there. So we watch that very closely. And as we've seen in this cycle and in previous cycles, the gaming business has been pretty resilient. You'll note the comment that I made to the previous caller with respect to retail. And I think you see that in the retail revenue and the retail revenue trends, but with respect to gaming, we don't see that. What we see is a mere competitive environment for market share. And so we have to be competitive and get our fair share.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead.
Dan Politzer:
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. First on Macau, up until this quarter, your share has been pretty stable. I mean, is your sense that as GGRs slowed in or decelerated in Macau the promotional environment has maybe stepped up a notch? And is it -- if so, is it multiple operators, a single operator or Cotai, Peninsula? Any additional color would be helpful.
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Well, with the caveat that Macau has always been and always will be an extremely competitive market. I'm not going to comment on specific promotional activity by others in the market, but I can tell you that our reinvestment in any given quarter could move up or down 50 basis points, 75 basis points, something like that based on what we're trying to achieve, but the core of our competitive strength will always be product and service.
Dan Politzer:
Got it. And then in terms of Las Vegas, it seems like the Sphere calendar of events has really started to fill out nicely. To what extent are you seeing an uplift there from that customer base just given your proximity to that venue?
Craig Billings:
Well, I would say, anecdotally, it is impactful. I say anecdotally because we have so much going on, both in terms of internally generated events and programming that we're doing here and citywide events that are happening or events that are happening in other properties. So, I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we've done some $970 million in EBITDA out of in Las Vegas over the trailing 12 months. That's a real credit to the team here. So, every little bit counts. I can't isolate any particular event short of, of course, the major events like F1, Super Bowl, things like that. And as I said on the previous call, we're delighted to have the Sphere and their team as neighbors. We love innovators, we love people that do things at the cutting edge and drive high-quality visitation.
Dan Politzer:
Great. Thanks so much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. You may go ahead.
Stephen Grambling:
Thank you. I guess sticking with Vegas, Craig, you've been in and around the industry for -- and seen multiple cycles. I guess with all the concerns mounting over the consumer, what are you on watch for in your business as perhaps a leading indicator? And how do you think about the operating leverage of the business now versus history in terms of being able to flex if the market changes?
Craig Billings:
Yes, good question. Thank you. What do you look for? High-end wine sales, club sales. I mean, we can go all day. I mean we can look at the -- we can get into the weeds and talk about individual metrics that you would be looking at, if you were on the inside of our business. We haven't seen that yet as we've been saying now for -- I think we've been answering questions around the impending performance of the business for over two years. So, we haven't seen that yet, but we're watching very, very closely to see how the consumer is behaving both in the moment and as they book to stay with us. What can we do to the extent that the consumer was to soften a little bit? And we've talked about this on calls previously as well. I mean we lived through a zero revenue environment for several months, and a seriously compressed revenue environment for many months after that as we went through COVID and the aftermath of COVID. That team is still here, still doing a tremendous job, and we have every playbook under the sun. We've learned how to run this business far differently than we were able to pre-COVID, which is part of the reason that we have been running such incredibly healthy margins, and we're able to fade things like the union increases, the way that we have. So, we have a playbook for every possible situation, but we haven't seen any of those situations emerge yet.
Stephen Grambling:
And perhaps as an unrelated follow-up. You mentioned the progress made in the UAE. There also looks like there's been some progress in Thailand. I guess, what are your latest thoughts on that market? Would that be something that you'd pursue? Or do you more likely to be pursued out of the Hong Kong entity? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Yes, we would pursue it out of Wynn Resorts out of the U.S.-listed entity. It's still early days. You're right, there has been progress, and it's encouraging to see, and it seems as though the legislators in Thailand really want to get this moving, which is great. We need to see more details on the regulatory and licensing structures, but the market is an attractive market, and it's probably conducive to meaningful investment, pending, again, a deeper understanding of the regulatory and licensing structure, you have amazing tourism infrastructure, you have a really strong service culture and a favorable operating expense, structure available in that market. So we're continuing to monitor the process very, very closely and we're active on the ground there.
Stephen Grambling:
Great. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead.
David Katz:
Hi. Afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to go back to the capital allocation discussion, specifically the buyback, if I may. Obviously, there's wide ranging views about how to execute those, but with you getting, your company getting to that four times leverage, do you think about a target leverage range, separate apart from projects, and if you could go just a little farther on the philosophy around opportunistic versus programmatic in terms of the buybacks for some insight, because I think the arguments are valid that your stock may be cheap at $100, right, or $76 or wherever it may be, just curious. Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. The second portion of your question first, we don't target, we don't have target leverage levels, because we will lever in place EBITDA to develop new projects. But we feel very good with where we are now. There's a WACC minimization question that needs to be answered, and we'll probably in that zone, at the leverage level that we're at today. With respect to buybacks, it's a little bit like capital deployment. We think about these things in five and 10-year increments, and over five or 10 years there's going to be times when the stock is expensive. There's going to be times when the stock is fairly priced and there's going to be times when the stock is cheap. And so what we need to do is continuously decapitalize in an appropriate manner, and of course, we will consider whatever the implied valuation is in the equity at any given point in time. And we will, act accordingly. But if we're growing the company by putting capital in the ground, we're returning capital to shareholders through the dividend. And we are decapitalizing the business and we're doing the right thing for those who have a long-term view on our business. And those are the people that we care about.
David Katz:
That's perfect. Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Robin Farley with UBS. You may go ahead.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks. Macao question and a Vegas question. For Macau, it seems like the use of smart tables has impacted market share in Macau pretty meaningfully. If you could kind of remind us where you are with implementing those and maybe a time frame for if there's kind of a learning curve for a several quarters or something, and kind of where you are with that, and then I have a Vegas question. Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure, sure. Robin. Yes, smart tables have a few. They've been around for a long time, but they've really just now reached a point from a technical soundness perspective and capability perspective where they could be really impactful. So, of course, they have positive implications on game security. They have some implications on OpEx. But the important aspect of them is in fact, the data and the ability to ingest and act on the data, which can drive better reinvestment decisions, which I think is at the core of what you mentioned when you say that it impacts market share. We've had a test bank of smart tables for a while now, and we're now moving to full rollout. We've made a ton of investments in the areas of analytics and data science over the course of the past several years. And I think we'll be in a position relatively quickly to both ingest and interpret and act on that data subsequent to roll out
Robin Farley:
Okay. Great. Thank you. And then just on Vegas. You talked about some of the expenses of wage hikes have kind of hurt some of the EBITDAR flow through. If you could just remind us when that will sort of be fully anniversaried. And then I don't know if there's anything you'd call out about comping the Super Bowl in Q1. Anything you'd call out there? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. We lacked the union increases a couple of days ago. So July was the last month that we were still dealing with difficult year-over-year comparables on those. And with respect to Q1, I don't have a view for you yet to be perfectly honest. I mean, we agree how we operate. We aggressively manage revenue and we aggressively manage expenses, and we'll do that throughout Q1. But what the impact of not having the Super Bowl this year will be – and what that will mean to the numbers, I don't have any guidance for you yet.
Robin Farley:
Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks.
A – Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Brandt Montour with Barclays. You may go ahead.
Brandt Montour:
Thank you for the question. Good afternoon, good evening, everybody. So first one on UAE. I know it's a little early maybe to start talking about or flushing out a go-to-market strategy. I'm curious, just given that the location of the property, I know that your database, I'm sure, is global in nature. But I'm assuming that Europe would probably be the largest source market where you're the least exposed from a physical footprint standpoint. Maybe you could just flesh out where you think your customers are going to come from mainly out of the gate and where you plan to market the most out of the gate?
A – Craig Billings:
Sure. Trying to figure out how to condense and hours or the content into a response. But so the way I think about it is like this. There is not a proper integrated resort on really that half of the planet, okay? So the closest is going to be in Asia, right, Singapore or Macau. So we have this unique asset. We have a very, very robust population that is within a eight-hour flight of that asset. This is a part of the world where people are accustomed to flying longer distances in order to holiday and to visit. You have 86 million airlifts coming into the Dubai Airport, we're about 55 minutes via one of three six-lane highways from the Dubai airport. In fact, because of traffic, it's shorter to get to us than it is to get to the major areas within Dubai. And then you have 10 million people locally, 9 million of whom are not Emirati and therefore, are able to play. So -- and if you compare that to Boston, if you compare that to New York City, you can see that, that's a pretty favorable number. So we have a very robust go-to-market plan. We're not going to talk about it publicly, but we will be ready when the door is open. And I would say to your comment on Europe, yes, Europe is an important market for the UAE in general. But don't forget India. India is a huge market for this part of the world. There's a lot of folks there. There's a lot of wealth in India, and that's going to be an important market. There are other parts of Asia that are big markets for the UAE as well. So it's an exciting project. I think the catchment area is probably larger than any other project that we have done, maybe akin to Vegas if you take into account the fact that Europe's population is pretty substantial and the international airlift is incredibly strong.
Brandt Montour:
Thanks for that. That was a lot of information in a short amount of time. I appreciate that. And then my second question is just on Macau, and apologies for the short-term question, but when your comments on July bouncing back and market share is that -- do you think that's more because the competitive environment may have stabilized a little bit sequentially? Or is it just more related to the July visitation coming back and allowing sort of everything to cool off a little bit from the competitive standpoint?
Craig Billings:
No. Well, first of all, a market share can bounce in, three people can come in and change your market share on any given day. That's the nature of the business, right, particularly when you're operating at the high end. So market share can bounce around. I think we are in a constant process of evaluating and re-evaluating not just the quantum of reinvestment that we will provide, but the form of that reinvestment, and we are targeting that reinvestment at very specific segments and sub-segments of the market. And so we recognized what we needed to tweak from Q2 and from June in particular, and we corrected it, and we went to market with it, and we, like I said, we bounced back in July, which was good to see.
Brandt Montour:
Perfect. Thanks, everyone.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Brent. And operator, the next question will be our last. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. The last question is from Chad Beynon with Macquarie. You may go ahead.
Chad Beynon:
Afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Craig, you highlighted just kind of the overall strength in Vegas, the $970 million. You guys are always out punching your weight in that market, and you still have additional space to expand the property or build something differently. So, kind of going back to the capital allocation question, how are you thinking about Vegas long-term as a market to grow your footprint and the returns in that market versus some of the other things that you've talked about on this call. Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. We will grow in Vegas. It's really a question of when, not if, and we will take advantage of the land bank that we have in Las Vegas. In terms of relative returns, I think the highest relative return that we can quantify now is absolutely in the UAE on Al Marjan Island. And as I mentioned, we just took down a land bank there as well. You can look at the history of gaming markets, Macau in particular, and you can see the power of a land bank and the power of using that land bank and going to market relatively quickly. So that's top of mind for us. The other development opportunities that we have, most notably the potential in New York and the potential in Thailand, it's too early to say what the returns will be because we don't know what the tax rate will be. And obviously that heavily inversely correlates to what the return on the project will be. And we won't do projects, vanity projects, if those vanity projects don't deliver appropriate returns relative to everything else that we have on our plate.
Chad Beynon:
Thanks. And then secondly, just in terms in terms of the different customers in your database, focusing on the US, I guess, mainly still in Vegas. Are you seeing any change in trends with your, I guess, your high end versus your ultra high end anything you're able to talk about? I know retail, you talked about in Macau is kind of moving with the market, but anything that you're seeing differently in the US with the different levels of upper end customers in your database?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Not really. So I talked about this a little bit on the last call. There is a bright side to the fact that purchasing power -- the purchasing environment dollar today is the same as about $0.80 in June of 2019. We repriced our rooms every day. Our gaming customer's bank roles are in current dollars. Of course, our invested capital and our debt is in yesterday's dollars, which is a great setup. If you look at that $970 million of EBITDA on our invested capital here. It's a very, very healthy return. That being said, we don't see it, and I wouldn't say that there's wide differentiation across the customer database. So again, and you referenced this, we focus on a very specific customer. Brian, anything you would add there?
Brian Gullbrants:
Yes. I would say at the highest end of the market continues to grow for us on the non-gaming side, and the team has done a phenomenal job in capturing that business and it's perfect for our brand, and that's where we sit and operate and do a great job. So it continues to grow.
Chad Beynon:
Good. Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Well, thank you, Chad, and thank you, everyone. We'll now close the call. Thank you for your interest in Wynn Resorts, and we look forward to updating you again next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
Thank you. That does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.
I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday.
I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Good afternoon, everyone, as always. Thanks for joining us today.
The momentum that we generated in the business throughout 2023 continued into 2024 as we delivered all-time record property EBITDAR of $647 million during the first quarter of 2024. I'm incredibly proud of all of our team members who remain so focused on delivering 5-star service and one-of-a-kind experiences to our guests. A heartfelt thank you to each of you. Turning to the quarter and starting here in Vegas. Wynn Las Vegas delivered $246 million of adjusted property EBITDAR, a first quarter record and up 6% year-on-year on a very difficult comp. As we noted on our last call, most of the action in the quarter was concentrated in February as the combination of Super Bowl and Chinese New Year drove all-time record EBITDAR during the month. Quarter was characterized by strong performance across our nongaming businesses with revenue growing 16% year-on-year, led by 21% growth in hotel revenue along with healthy volumes in the casino. Through our unique combination of the best service levels in the market, continuous reinvestment in our property and our Only at Wynn programming, we continue to fire on all cylinders here in Las Vegas. More recently, our top line trends remained healthy in April with drop, handle and RevPAR all up year-over-year on yet another difficult comp. Turning to Boston. Encore generated $63 million of EBITDAR during the quarter. The team in Boston successfully navigated a confluence of poor weather in January and inflationary pressures during the quarter as EBITDAR and revenue at the property were largely stable year-on-year. There were encouraging pockets of strength in the quarter with record slot handle and strong year-on-year growth in hotel revenue. More recently, demand has remained healthy through April with particular strength in slot handle and RevPAR. On the development across from Encore Boston Harbor, we have put this development on hold for the time being as we have been unable to reach an agreement with local authorities on certain financial terms. Though it's disappointing, we have numerous other development projects globally where we can redirect the capital we intended to deploy in Boston. Turning to Macau. We generated $340 million of EBITDAR in the quarter on GGR market share that was above both the prior quarter and above our 2019 exit. We held above our expected range. So on a fully normalized basis, EBITDAR would have been approximately $320 million. The strength in our business has continued into Q2. In the casino, our mass drop per day in April increased 30% versus April 2019. And on the nongaming side, our hotel occupancy was 99%. Overall, strong top line performance, combined with disciplined OpEx control drove healthy margins during April. We were also pleased with the results during May Golden Week, particularly in light of unfavorable weather in the region. In the casino, mass drop per day increased 30% versus the comparable 2019 holiday period and approach levels seen during last Chinese New Year. On the development front in Macau, we began initial demolition and construction work on our second concession-related project, our destination food hall. We are well into design and planning for our other major concession-related CapEx commitments, including our new events and entertainment center and a unique theater and showroom. Turning to Wynn Al Marjan in the UAE. Construction is rapidly advancing on the project. And as of this week, we are currently constructing the fourth floor of the hotel tower. You can find recent renderings and images of Wynn Al Marjan in a press release we issued yesterday ahead of a major travel convention taking place this week in Dubai. And I expect we will further update you on the advances we have made on the project later this year. Finally, we are actively considering greenfield development opportunities in New York City and potentially Thailand. In New York, we believe a full-scale Wynn integrated resort in Hudson Yards will drive meaningful incremental tax revenue, tourism and employment in the state. Despite the elongation of the RFA submission process in New York, we remain intrigued by the prospect of a Wynn resort in Manhattan. In Thailand, it's early days, and we have yet to see the regulatory and licensing structures. Thailand is already a major tourism destination with significant tourism infrastructure and a world-class service culture so we will continue to closely monitor advancement of the legalization process. I remain incredibly bullish about the future of our company. In Las Vegas, we remain at the pinnacle of the market with tremendous demand for what we offer. And in an inflationary environment like this, we have the luxury of being able to reprice our hotel rooms every day in order to take advantage of that demand. In Macau, we continue to punch above our weight on a revenue per hotel room basis generating meaningful market share and substantial discretionary free cash flow. We also have a meaningful high-ROI project underway in the UAE along with potential greenfield developments in other attractive gateway cities. Meanwhile, our leverage profile continues to improve as does our outlook on future free cash flow. Our best days lie ahead. With that, I will now turn it over to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter. Julie?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig.
At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $246.3 million in adjusted property EBITDAR on $636.5 million of operating revenue during the quarter delivering an EBITDAR margin of 38.7%. Hold was a bit of a mixed bag given results in the Sportsbook, and we estimate a net $5 million benefit from higher than normal hold in the quarter. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day, was $4.1 million in Q1 2024, up 9% year-over-year and in line with the increase in operating revenues as we successfully absorbed incremental OpEx related to Super Bowl programming, union-related payroll increases and other inflationary pressures. Turning to Boston. We generated adjusted property EBITDAR of $63 million on revenue of $217.8 million with an EBITDAR margin of 29%. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side and, excluding a $2 million benefit from a onetime item, OpEx per day was $1.19 million in Q1 2024, up around 2% year-over-year. The team has done a great job mitigating union-related payroll increases with cost efficiencies in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDAR of $339.6 million in the quarter on $998.6 million of operating revenue. As Craig alluded to, we estimate higher than normal hold positively impacted EBITDA by around $19 million during the quarter. VIP hold was largely in the normal range with the hold impact primarily related to higher than normal hold on Wynn Palace's mass table games. EBITDA margin was 34% in the quarter, an increase of 140 basis points relative to Q4 2023 and 310 basis points relative to Q1 2019. Overall, our strong margin expansion relative to 2019 has been driven by a combination of the favorable mix shift to higher-margin mass gaming and operating leverage on cost efficiencies. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax, was approximately $2.6 million per day in Q1, a decrease of 17% compared to $3.2 million in Q1 2019. OpEx increased 3% on a sequential basis, well below the 10% increase in operating revenue. The team has done a great job staying disciplined on costs, and we remain well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the market continues to recover. In terms of CapEx in Macau, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on several of our concession commitments. And as we noted the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx outcomes in the near term. As such, we continue to expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $350 million and $500 million in total between 2024 and the end of 2025. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of nearly $4.2 billion as of March 31. This was comprised of $2.2 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and approximately $2 billion in the U.S. On the capital markets front, in February, we issued a $400 million add-on to the Wynn Resorts Finance 2031 unsecured notes with net proceeds along with cash on hand used to fund the tender and repurchase of $800 million of Wynn Las Vegas notes maturing in March 2025. Over the past 4 quarters, we've reduced company-wide gross debt by approximately $1 billion. Bringing it all together, the combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally, with our properties generating over $2.3 billion of trailing 12-month property EBITDAR, together with our robust cash position, creates a very healthy consolidated net leverage ratio of just over 4x. Our strong free cash flow and liquidity profile allows us to reduce leverage while returning capital to shareholders. To that end, the Board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share payable on May 31, 2024 to stockholders of record as of May 20, 2024. Additionally, in late March, the Wynn Macau Board recommended the reinstatement of a dividend at $0.075 per share or USD 50 million highlighting our commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders in both the U.S. and Macau. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $97.7 million primarily related to the Villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas, concession-related CapEx in Macau and normal course maintenance across the business. Additionally, we contributed $70 million of equity to the Wynn Al Marjan Island JV project during the quarter, bringing the total equity contribution to date to approximately $160 million. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Craig, just in terms of what you're seeing in Macau, obviously, you guys had a strong quarter. Everything seemed to flow through very nicely. In terms of the competitive landscape that you're seeing into May now relative to perhaps what you're seeing last quarter or fourth quarter, more specifically, could you kind of characterize what's [indiscernible] the market at?
Craig Billings:
Yes. Sure, Carlo. You cut out a little bit there at the end, but I got the gist of your question. Macau has always been and is currently a competitive market. And as you know, we focus on product and service, and we focus on attracting the best guests in the market. So I've seen a lot of the questions and the commentary around promotional activity.
I don't really want to speak to promotional activity by others in the market. But I can tell you that our reinvestment can move 50, 75 basis points in any given quarter depending upon what we are trying to achieve. But the core of our competitive strength remains product and service. And I think you can see that in Q1 with both our results and our margin.
Carlo Santarelli:
Helpful. And then, Craig, just going back to your remarks on Las Vegas. You made a point of kind of calling out February being the primary driver of the quarter. You then follow that up with drop, handle, RevPAR kind of all up in April and mentioned kind of tougher comparisons along the way.
How do you kind of foresee what is a very, obviously, tough comp stack as you move through the balance of this year in the market?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Well, first, as it specifically relates to drop and handle, we've almost doubled handle from 2019 to 2023, and a lot of that was share taking. We have table drop that's up almost 50% in the same period so not too shabby. And as you know, I've said on several calls, trees don't grow to the sky.
But all that being said, the comps are getting tougher. And if you go to a CPI calculator online, you will find that the purchasing power of $1 today is the same as about $0.80 in March of 2019. So for a casino and a hotel operator like us who can reprice rooms every day and whose customers gaming bankrolls reflect the current value of the dollar, we shouldn't be surprised that results today when compared to the past look pretty good. Of course, that pricing power is exacerbated by the strength of what we offer here in Las Vegas with the best service quality, the best physical experience and top-notch program. You can layer on top of that that our target customer base, they can now earn 5 points on their money just by putting it in the bank, and that has seen pretty strong wealth creation over the past several quarters, it's a pretty powerful EBITDA setup. Of course, by the way, the vast majority of our deployed capital here and our debt is in yesterday's dollars. So that EBITDA setup also works wonders for returns and discretionary free cash flow. I digress slightly, but when do things go from absolutely unbelievable to just really great? I don't know the answer to that. The best I can do is give you a clear picture of what we're seeing right now as I did in my prepared remarks with respect to April, and it's good.
Operator:
Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
My first question is on Macau and follows up on Carlos' Macau-related promotional question. If we look at the 1Q, the conversion of gross gaming revenues of Macau to casino revenues was at a better clip than it was in the fourth quarter and all of last year by quarter. How much of that sequential improvement over the last couple of quarters is just a function of maybe a high hold versus maybe you're operating the business differently than maybe some of your peers who are seeing that relationship sequence less favorably for them than it has for you?
Craig Billings:
Yes. Thanks, Joe. It has a lot to do with the revamp of our loyalty program and the fact that we have given our customers choice in terms of how they want their reinvestment. And so in any given quarter, those choices change. And some of those choices flow to contra revenue and some of those choices flow to OpEx. So that's really the primary driver. It's not indicative of a systemic change in the aggregate reinvestment.
Operator:
Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Craig or Julie, I just wanted to ask about maybe the Macau OpEx trajectory. Obviously, you've driven and sounds like you expect to continue to see some pretty great operating leverage there. But it is -- as we're still normalizing in that market, it's probably a little bit tougher for us to get a sense of just sort of underlying core expense growth or inflation. So any comments as things start to annualize and normalize a little bit? How much kind of on a year-on-year basis you'd expect that to level off to maybe in the back half of the year?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. Shaun, I'll take that one.
Yes, we've talked quite a bit about OpEx and how we've been very disciplined in managing it and how we've been able to accommodate the nongaming OpEx that we have to spend to meet our concession commitments. So we've been really disciplined. We had OpEx per day of $2.63 million in Q1. So it's still well below Q1 '19 levels, and it's only up 3% sequentially. It was a big Q in terms of what we call tentpole events. And it's -- obviously, the OpEx increase is well below the 10% we've had sequentially in operating revenue. So we had -- we were really pleased with the flow-through there. Going forward, we're going to continue to be really disciplined around OpEx. We have good line of sight to the events calendar and how we'll continue to incorporate that. So as we have our EBITDA margin at both properties above Q1 '19 levels and our OpEx were well controlled, we really expect revenue mix to be the key driver of margins going forward. We're going to have some quarter-to-quarter variation as we see different events on the calendar, and we continue to roll out programming. But we feel pretty good about what we've managed to land with OpEx. And we see potential for some quarters to be slightly inside of that $2.63 million. And maybe in a bigger quarter, it might be slightly outside of that. But overall, we're in a good place.
Shaun Kelley:
Super. And just as my follow-up, Craig, to go back to sort of the Las Vegas macro commentary, I mean, I think what many of us struggling with, and I'm sure you're familiar with this in conversations with industry executives, is just -- there have been some comments out there about some leisure -- even at the high end, some leisure pushback when maybe the product mix isn't perfect. And I think -- in some cases, it looks like Wynn is kind of perfect on many of these metrics.
But I'm just curious, as you look through all the KPIs across your business, did you see any area of skittishness? I mean, any area that you would consider normalization or movement around or the truth is the dynamics are alive and well there and again, we may just need to be looking somewhere else across the strip or outside of Las Vegas to see that change in the consumer right now?
Craig Billings:
Yes. Sure, Sean. Not really. So if you think about what's happening in Vegas, those who have deployed capital in Vegas over the course of the past 5 years, it actually hasn't been so much -- at least innovative capital. It actually hasn't been so much the industry.
It's been the sphere, it's been the raters. It's been smaller but still impactful capital deployment here that has driven all kinds of demand to the market. And you've heard our competitors talk about this as well, and we have a unique position in the market. So again, I'll say it, trees don't grow to the sky and comps get tougher and tougher over time. But from a pricing power perspective, we feel great, certainly relative to the rest of the strip. Brian, do you have any comments on what we're seeing in the booking window at this point?
Brian Gullbrants:
Yes. I mean, everything is pretty much a result of retreated back to what it was in 2019 with respect to bookings. And when you look at the pace of group, we continue to pace to have our best year ever over '23, which was our best year ever, and '25 and '26 are pacing nicely, not just in group, but we're seeing that across the board.
So I think continuing to focus on our people, our assets, our experiential events that we put together really allow us to just drive price and continue to balance all our channels.
Craig Billings:
And what it means by 2019 is that it's reverted to a normal -- a very normal booking process.
Brian Gullbrants:
The booking windows are back to normal, and it's quite nice.
Operator:
Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo.
Daniel Politzer:
Just one quick one on Las Vegas. Just in terms of your occupancy at that property, I mean you typically run in the high 80s there. I mean you're getting as much rate as it looks like you want. I mean fundamentally, is that property structurally different in that relative to the Macau properties where you run occupancy close to 99%? It just seems like -- I know there's a balance there, but any reason occupancy in Vegas couldn't go higher as you keep pushing rates up modestly?
Craig Billings:
Sure. So first and foremost, and this is true company-wide, we never want to be in a position where we have to walk someone because we don't have their room type or we don't have their room available for them. Second, at some point, the experience on the property actually degrades if you get to use an extreme 99% occupancy. So we're always balancing occupancy and rate in order to drive strong revenue results but also maintain a great experience on the property.
Macau is very different. Macau, there is a decent amount of occupancy that occurs on the day. So you have people that are in-market and we will offer them a room while they're in-market so you have the ability to drive up that occupancy very, very close to 100%. So it's really just a difference in market dynamics. And can we run higher in Vegas? Sure, we could. We could do that. And at times, we do. We do run higher and then it washes out later in the quarter where we run lower. It's really just a question of the on-premises experience and maximizing revenue.
Daniel Politzer:
Got it. And then just switching to Thailand. Maybe could you talk a little bit about that opportunity potentially? I know it's quite early days but just high level in terms of timing, project size, how competitive do you think this process would be? Any incremental color would be great.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Yes, it's very, very early. I mean, we -- first things first, we need to understand that the regulatory structure, the licensing structure, the bidding structure, et cetera, are all going to be consistent with other jurisdictions that are considered best-in-class. I personally think they will be based on the information that we have to date. But that's really a condition precedent to our further involvement.
It's an interesting market for the reasons that I described in my prepared remarks, lots of great infrastructure, a very strong tourism sector today. And I think it will be a competitive process. I think in any market like that, that has those dynamics, I think you're going to find a lot of folks that are interested in being there. And we are very confident in our capabilities given the strength of the portfolio as it exists today and the talent that we have in this business.
Operator:
Our next caller is John DeCree with CBRE.
John DeCree:
First one, maybe, Craig, you've introduced some new renderings and photos of Al Marjan in front of the ATM conference here in Dubai. Curious if you could remind us total capital contribution and budget or construction cost and if that's changed at all since you've kind of updated the renderings for that project.
Craig Billings:
Sure. The total budget is around $4 billion. If budgets move here and there but no substantial movement, our capital contribution will be, round numbers, call it, $900 million. That heavily depends on the construction leverage. So we're in the midst of figuring that out now. But you can figure something like 50-50 debt to equity and then we would be 40% of the equity.
John DeCree:
Got it. Understood. That's helpful. And then maybe one back domestically to get a little granular, perhaps in Las Vegas on the quarter. You called out February. We knew that was going to be an event-driven month. But I was wondering if you could kind of parse out what January and March look like. And I guess some color on April coming out of the quarter quite strong. But as you kind of size up 1Q, any comments about January and March, specifically relative to year-over-year in terms of performance.
Craig Billings:
Sure. What I would say is this. February, as we called out, it would be -- was, of course, the strongest month of the quarter. And then in rank order, it would be March and January.
Operator:
Our next caller is Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
I wonder if you could just touch on anything for Al Marjan that has to happen from a regulatory perspective approval at any level. If the construction were done tomorrow before it can actually start operating the casino, just to clarify that.
Craig Billings:
Sure, Robin. Just like other jurisdictions, there are regulatory requirements that are required before we can open the doors. And so we expect that we will meet those regulatory requirements and receive the necessary approvals in due course.
Robin Farley:
But is there anything from a perspective in terms of anything that has to be legalized at any level or separate from just what we have to do to meet licensing?
Craig Billings:
We're not building on spec, put it that way. So I think you've seen -- hopefully, you've seen that they have created a federal regulatory body of the GCGRA in order to license and issue -- license operators and issue regulations associated with gaming. The GCGRA's activities are ongoing, and we are aware of what they are. And we'll get all the necessary approvals in due course.
Operator:
Our next caller is Ben Chaiken with Mizuho.
Benjamin Chaiken:
Just one quick one in Macau. At the Wynn Macau property, your mass hold was around 19% for the second quarter in a row after holding below normal for a long period of time. Do you think the current gaming volumes at this property are enough to have more normalized variability in hold, such as what we've seen in the last few quarters? Any color there would be great.
Craig Billings:
Sure. And then we held high subsequent to the end of the quarter. It really is just a function of the normal ebb and flow of the game. A lot of that has to do with the volume of high-end play. And so there's really nothing -- there's really not a lot to see there and, over time, hold will normalize.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Operator, we'll take one last question after this one.
Operator:
And that last caller comes from David Katz with Jefferies.
David Katz:
I wanted to just touch on Las Vegas, given the comps are in [indiscernible] market given the available resources that you have. I just wonder under what circumstances you might look at developing some of the excess volumes you have in Las Vegas and what would have to happen moving forward?
Craig Billings:
Thanks, David. You were chopping up there a bit, but I think I got the gist of your question. I think you were addressing the development opportunities in the land that we have here. But we do -- we have a very substantial land bank in Las Vegas, as you know. And the reality is that we are replacing choices now from a development perspective.
We've got the projects going on in the UAE. By the way, we will have a land bank there as well. We're obviously looking at New York. We are considering Thailand as that process evolves. And so we have a lot of things in the hopper at the moment that are going to meaningfully increase our EBITDAR and our free cash flow base. We are always considering particularly the adjacent land on the strip as a potential development opportunity, but we really want to see how some of these other things play out.
David Katz:
And that was -- the nature of my question is sort of what would have to happen for you to want to move forward on Las Vegas? Would some of these have to fall out or just move forward and this comes right after that. I think that was just a nuance to what I was trying to get at.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Yes. So -- the reality is it's many things. So what happens in the macro economy, what happens to borrowing cost, what happens to the cost to build and then what are our other opportunities, how many of those opportunities can be pushed through our design and development team at any given point in time.
So it's a -- I don't know, 5D question, I guess. I don't know if you can get into the fifth dimension. But there's a lot of questions there. And right now, we're focused on New York. We're observing Thailand, and we're in the midst of constructing in the UAE. So we like our development pipeline at the moment. We like our future EBITDAR and free cash flow profile at the moment. So stay tuned.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you. And thank you, operator. With that, we'll bring this call to a close. We thank you for your interest in the company and look forward to talking to you again next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
And thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings, Brian Gullbrants and Steve Weitman in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us again today. Well, what a quarter. And really what a year. Every single member of the Wynn team should be incredibly proud of what they achieved together in 2023. Momentum in the business built throughout the year, and we ended on a high note with $632 million of property EBITDA, an all-time quarterly record, capping off a record year in which we generated nearly $2.2 billion of property EBITDA. We see tremendous value in our business as evidenced by our buybacks in the quarter and I'm genuinely looking forward to 2024. The company is more diversified than it's ever been. In Las Vegas, we continue to distance ourselves from peers as the leader in luxury and it's more evident than ever that we are the go-to spot for the best customers attending citywide events like F1. We have a growing business in Macau that is running structurally higher margins than in the past, is much less reliant on the volatile VIP segment and is increasingly well positioned to compete. And importantly, we have a substantial growth opportunity in the UAE that will further diversify our portfolio and expand our brand into new markets. Turning to the quarter and starting here in Vegas. Wynn Las Vegas delivered $271 million of adjusted property EBITDA, an all-time quarterly record, up 24% year-on-year on a very difficult comp. While F1 was clearly a contributor, activity of the property was intense throughout the quarter, with RevPAR table drop, slot handle and food and beverage revenue all well above what was a very strong quarter in 2022. In fact, we had our best October, our best November, and our best December ever in terms of EBITDA during Q4. We continue to fire on all cylinders here in Las Vegas, and I'm incredibly proud of the Vegas team. More recently, January 2024 looked a lot like January 2023 from an overall revenue perspective with hotel revenue particularly strong. That being said, January isn't where the action is this quarter. It's all about February. Super Bowl, Chinese New Year and for us, the best February in our history for group and convention. Between Super Bowl and Chinese New Year, we have doubled the front money and credit that we had in 2023, and we expect record hotel revenue over Super Bowl. So a very active February will really set the tone for the first quarter. Turning to Boston. Encore generated $64 million of EBITDAR during the quarter, similar to many other regional markets, demand at the property was largely stable year-on-year. Revenue decreased by about 0.5%, but the team has done a great job remaining disciplined on OpEx, driving a 2% year-over-year increase in EBITDAR. More recently, underlying demand has remained healthy through January although a couple of unfortunately timed winter storms had negatively impacted visitation during a few recent weekends. On the development across from Encore Boston Harbor, we recently received a key environmental approval and we are advancing through a few remaining items before construction can begin. Turning to Macau. We generated $297 million of EBITDA in the quarter on market share that was consistent with the prior quarter and with 2019. While we held in the normal range in mass, we held a bit high in VIP. So on a fully normalized basis, EBITDA would have been approximately $290 million or 94% of Q4 2019 levels. The strength in our business there has continued into Q1. In the casino, our mass drop per day in January increased 32% versus January 2019 and was up sequentially versus Q4. On the non-gaming side, our hotel occupancy was 99%, along with continued strength in tenant retail sales. Overall, strong top line performance, combined with disciplined OpEx control drove healthy margins during the month of January. On the development front, we opened our first major concession-related capital project during Q4, a collaboration with the team behind Las Vegas-based Illuminarium and initial customer feedback has been positive. We are deep into design and planning for our other concession-related CapEx commitments, including our Destination Food Hall, the new event and entertainment center and a unique production show. Lastly, turning to Wynn Al Marjan, construction continues on the project with much of the hotel tower and podium foundation now complete, and we are nearly ready to start going vertical on the hotel tower. Property is really going to be a stunner, and it's great to see the buildings start to take shape. With that, I'll now turn it over to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $270.8 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $696.8 million of operating revenue during the quarter, delivering an EBITDA margin of 38.9%, up 140 basis points year-on-year. Higher than novel table games hold benefited EBITDA by around $10 million in Q4. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day was $4.4 million in Q4'23, up 16% year-over-year, well below the 19% increase in revenue. The sequential increase in OpEx was primarily driven by higher programming and staffing costs related to F1. Turning to Boston. We generated adjusted property EBITDA of $64.4 million on revenue of $217.1 million with an EBITDA margin of 29.7%. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx, excluding gaming tax of $1.14 million per day in Q4'23, down 2% year-over-year, driving a 70 basis point increase in EBITDA margin. The team has done a great job mitigating union-related payroll increases with cost efficiencies in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $297 million in the quarter on $910.6 million of operating revenues. As Craig alluded to, we estimate higher-than-expected hold positively impacted EBITDA by around $7 million during the quarter. Importantly, mass hold at both properties within the expected range during the quarter with the hold impact primarily related to the VIP side of the business. EBITDA margin was 32.6% in the quarter, an increase of 140 basis points relative to Q4 2019, driven by a combination of the favorable mix shift to higher-margin mass gaming and operating leverage on cost efficiencies. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.56 million per day in Q4, a decrease of 14% compared to $3 million in Q4 2019. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs and we're well positioned to continue to drive strong operating leverage as the market continues to recover. In terms of CapEx in Macau, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on our concession commitments. And as we noted in the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx outcomes in the near term. As such, we expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $350 million and $500 million in total between 2024 and the end of 2025. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of nearly $4.5 billion as of December 31. This was comprised of $2 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and approximately $2.45 billion in the US. Bringing it all together, the combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally with our properties generating nearly $2.2 billion of property EBITDA in 2023. Together with our robust cash and liquidity position, creates a very healthy leverage and free cash flow profile for the company globally. Further, the Board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share payable on February 29, 2024, to stockholders of record as of February 20, 2024. We also repurchased approximately 1.6 million shares, $139 million during the quarter, highlighting our commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders. We will consider additional dividend increases at Wynn Resorts and the initiation of the dividend from Wynn Macau as the recovery progresses and the exact timing of our global capital deployment plans become more clear. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $113 million, primarily related to the spa villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas concession-related CapEx in Macau and normal course maintenance across the business. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, Craig. Hey, Julie, everyone. Guys, as you think about kind of Macau and obviously, with the amenities that come on, whether it's concession-related or other. Does this kind of 2.5 to 2.6 daily OpEx rate feel like you're in the right place going forward as we think about 2024, at least?
Craig Billings:
Hey, Carlo, I'll start and then I'll hand it to Julie. I mean, I think, we should put it in perspective, right. Our OpEx in the quarter was, I think, about 14% below Q4 2019, and our margins were some, I think, 140 basis points higher. So we're clearly being disciplined on OpEx. But Julie, do you want to discuss some specifics?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Yeah, there were some specifics, Carlo, sequentially. So if you think about it, it increased 160,000 per day or $15 million sequentially and that was split across three different buckets. The first one was higher variable costs on the extremely robust business volumes with hotel occupancy up 100 basis points, GGR up 12%, F&B up 13%. The second bucket really is payroll. We had more overtime pay related to holidays because there were nine public holidays in the quarter versus just two in the previous quarter. And then the third bucket was really the highest spending on concession-related non-gaming events, because this was a particularly heavy event quarter. And you remember, we kind of foreshadowed that in the previous call when we talked about all the different programming we had going on. And that really kicked off with the hypercar exhibition that we had. And then we had several well-received art, sports and culinary events. So that's really what was driving it, the sequential pop. Going forward, we feel, you know we've got -- as Craig said, with EBITDA margin at both properties above Q4'19 levels and with the OpEx well controlled. We do expect the pace of growth in market-wide GGR along with our revenue mix to be a key driver of margins. So there's going to be some quarter-to-quarter variation as we see different programming coming through and we continue to roll out the programming associated with concession commitments.
Craig Billings:
Barring, Carlo, barring a major facility opening like the event center, which is a number of years away. I don't foresee a step change in our OpEx, and we're managing it very, very tightly.
Carlo Santarelli:
Very helpful. Thank you for the detail as well. Then just as a follow-up. Obviously, the Las Vegas results kind of speak for themselves, and it would be hard to notice anything changed in Las Vegas in the fourth quarter. But obviously, you guys do have a new competitor there to the north. And I was just wondering now with at least a couple of months of kind of experience with that. Could you talk a little bit perhaps about how Fontainebleau has kind of impacted positively or negatively the asset and kind of daily traffic.
Craig Billings:
Yeah, it really hasn't. So I feel great about our business. I feel great about where we are. Like I said, February is shaping up to be jampacked between the Super Bowl, Chinese New Year and everything else we have going on, I don't really see any impact.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you, both.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
Hi, everyone. Thanks. Craig, in the fourth quarter, mass table GGR was 117% of fourth quarter levels, up from 106% in the 3Q relative to '19 or 3Q of '19. I know you don't sort of think about it maybe or present it at least externally to the same degree that Las Vegas Sands does between how we define this premium mass and its base mass business. But when you think about within the different tiering that you guys have? Would you say all of your mass table tiers are fully recovered plus relative to '19? Or are there some tiers that still have relative recovery to get to and exceed '19 levels?
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Joe. I think you have to differentiate between each of the properties. So the early portion of the recovery was clearly premium mass land. You saw that in the different -- the revenue per head or revenue per visitor in the early portion of the recovery. And clearly, we saw that hit Palace first. And so we've been talking for the past several quarters about how Wynn Macau would need a little bit longer to recover. And so at Wynn Palace, now it's really about yielding the rooms and driving the best heads and beds, if you will, in order to continue to grow our position there. And the property is well positioned to do that. At Wynn Macau, where we have historically been more reliant on more transient traffic on what other operators may refer to as core mass. You saw that start to come through in this quarter. There's still more work to do there. But honestly, if you really look at the numbers that Wynn Macau produced this quarter, I'm incredibly proud of that team. You can see the uptick in drop. You can see the uptick in GGR and it was incredibly strong. That's really down to the targeted CapEx that we did that we completed just at the end of the third quarter, bridging into the beginning of the fourth quarter and then also the return of those additional segments that you referred to in your question.
Joseph Greff:
Great. That's helpful. And Craig, we heard your positive commentary about February and the 1Q in Las Vegas and in addition to the Super Bowl, the group traction. Would you expect 2Q '24 through 4Q'24 group room nights to be up year-over-year?
Craig Billings:
Yeah. Brian, do you want to give a little bit more color?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Joe, as we're seeing this year play out, we're really encouraged by the forward group booking trends that we're seeing. The outlook for group business is super strong. '24 is pacing towards a record room night. So that base is there for us to yield from. And the sales and revenue teams continue to just do a great job in yield managing our properties.
Joseph Greff:
And on those group room nights, Brian, what would you say rate is relative to '23 pricing?
Craig Billings:
We don't disclose that, but you can assume that rates are contracted on a multiyear basis and bear some relationship to CPI.
Joseph Greff:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Craig, maybe just starting and building off the answer to the last question on sort of the way the recovery has played out across the properties. Just specifically at Wynn Macau, is that the bigger beneficiary in the portfolio today as it relates to, let's call it, as we start to see visitation maybe outpace or balance out now relative to the spend per visit we saw, again, earlier in the recovery. Is that sort of the implication of the answer to the last question? Or could you just elaborate a little bit on where you expect to see some of the still very strong visitation numbers and that kind of catch up in the base mass business. Where should we see that most in your portfolio?
Craig Billings:
Well, I think you're going to see it across the portfolio, but you're going to see it disproportionately at Wynn Macau just based on the geographic location of the property. You tend to have that more transient customer in downtown and we're going to be a beneficiary of that there. But it affects Palace as well. I mean there's a lot of reasons to visit Palace and to make Palace a destination for a base mass customer. You should see the queue just to get on the gondola out in front of the lake every day. And now as we add incremental amenities like we did with Illuminarium, there's a lot of reasons to visit our property more so than they probably ever have been. So I would say it affects both properties to some extent, but I would expect it to disproportionately affect the property downtown.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you for that. And then maybe as a Las Vegas, question. Obviously, some significant benefit on the event side from F1, which we know disproportionately seems like it accrued to win. You're going to have another big one, it seems like with Super Bowl. Wondering if you could comment a little bit on maybe as you look year-over-year, the broader events business in calendar, you talked about group. So how does the just broader event calendar post Super Bowl feel on a year-over-year basis? And then specifically, because we've got some tracking data that looks pretty good for you. Just any thoughts or comments on the impact of the sphere? And how that has played out, especially on some of the bigger concert nights and what you might see in terms of impact there? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. On the first portion of your question, the event calendar looks pretty good because we spend a whole bunch of time creating our own events. So it's not just the city wides. We've been programming the heck out of this joint for several years now, and we've built a lot of momentum on doing that. And that not only helps us from a brand and marketing perspective, but clearly from a room night and a pricing on rooms perspective. So I feel great about the remainder of 2024 from an events perspective. With respect to the sphere, it's been, I'd tell you, it's been pretty amazing. I mean it probably doesn't affect our rate, but we sure do get a whole bunch of requests to reside on that side of the building in order to see the sphere itself. And certainly, on the U2 weekends, we see an uptick in terms of very high-quality occupancy. So you're talking about kind of the best of the best customers that want to stay with us because we're actually the closest property to the sphere as the crow flies. So it's definitely been additive to us on the margin. And I got to tell you, I admire and respect what they've done by doing that. I think it's incredibly novel. It's incredibly unique, and it's yet another kind of only in Vegas experience that you can have and we're delighted that they're next door.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead, sir.
Daniel Politzer:
Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. Look, Vegas is obviously performing at an extremely high level, no real impact from new supply. How do you think about the parcel -- the property parcel Wynn West that you have? And obviously, this is a longer-term focused question, but how did your thought process there maybe expand as it relates to your CapEx projects in the UAE as well as New York? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. I mean, look, there's a lot -- we have a lot of different avenues for growth. We've got a huge land bank here in Vegas, right? We've got the land across the street. We've got the golf course. There's a lot that we can do here. We're in pursuit as I think everyone knows, in New York, we have a project that's actually coming out of the ground in the UAE, and that's going to be a very substantial opportunity for us. There's some additional states that are moving, albeit at a relatively slow pace that might prove to be opportunities for us. We obviously don't do every possible -- every potential jurisdiction. We're very selective. And then there are certain international jurisdictions like Thailand, for example, that are also in the process of considering gaming. So we're always balancing really two things. Our ability to do what we do so well, remember, we're one of the last in the industry that maintains its own design and development group. And so it's not as though you can bang for these out in any particular year. So that's always a consideration. And then the other is capital, as you rightly pointed out. So we're always looking at what is the highest and best use of capital that we can deploy, and then we're making decisions accordingly. We will certainly make use of that land across the street in Las Vegas. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when, and we'll see how things play out in New York and things play out in a couple of other jurisdictions in determining the timing of the use of that land.
Daniel Politzer:
Got it. And then just for my follow-up, right, Macau is certainly continuing along a nice trajectory here. You outlined some CapEx as you think about it related to the concession renewals. But how do you balance that with maybe the subsidiary paying up dividends to the parent. Is that something that we could see within the next 12 to 18 months? Or is that something longer term that you'd like to envision coming back?
Craig Billings:
Yes. It really depends, you're right. There's a lot of moving parts there, right? We have a debt maturity later this year there. We need to think about our leverage profile in Macau. And what that longer-term leverage profile should be. We have some capital that we need to put in the ground there. We had nearly three years of closure and cash burn. So the question is, what do we want the balance sheet to be? How will the CapEx plans come together in terms of the timing of capital deployment, which we're studying and learning more about as we go through the design and development process every day. And then, of course, the dividend. And as you know, the dividend just as a global statement, dividends are the cornerstone of our capital return strategy. So stay tuned. We are looking very closely at it, and we'll figure it out in due course.
Daniel Politzer:
Got it. Thanks and congrats on the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Operator:
Our next caller is Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks. I wanted to ask about Vegas. It sounds like clearly very strong events calendar and outlook for February. Your January comments sounded like it was maybe a little bit flattish year-over-year. I'm just wondering how much is looking on kind of a year-over-year basis when you get past some of these big events in Feb? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure, Robin. Yes, January, well, keep in mind, last year, Chinese New Year started in January. And so this year, it starts in February. So as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, February really sets the tone for the quarter, and it's where all the action is this year in Q1. March has a couple of headwinds. Easter timing is one of them and then the absence of CON/AGG is another. But our forward booking indicators continue to look strong, and we feel good about it. I've said probably five times on the last three or four calls that trees don't grow to the sky, and I would continue to tell you how things are looking in Vegas, and they continue to look good. They continue to look good for us. So how the quarter plays out will be very dependent on February. And again all forward indicators look strong for February. But subsequent to that, we'll take it from there.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Brandt Montour with Barclays. You may go ahead, sir.
Brandt Montour:
Thanks. Good evening, everybody, and congrats on the results. In Macau and Palace, I guess, specifically, but these are -- it's a broader question. Can you comment on just the broader competitive environment for premium mass players, how it's evolved sort of into the early part of this year, which with volumes being strong, infrastructure, travel infrastructure going back, how has that changed? And is that a tailwind for you as we go forward here and as volumes continue to grow?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Specifically as it relates to Wynn Palace. Wynn Palace is incredibly well positioned and has been since the day it opens Encore time. But it only grows more so as we continue to evolve the amenities in Wynn Palace. Competition for premium mass customers has been fierce for ever end of day. So it's really nothing new. What we try to do is really focus on what we do well, stay true to who we are and be really, really disciplined, including on reinvestment because at the end of the day, I don't think the bank takes market share. I think they take cash. And so we're really focused on generating cash and EBITDA. So I think Palace turned in a great quarter, its future is bright, and we will continue to aggressively chase market share responsibly.
Brandt Montour:
Great. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. You may go ahead, sir.
Stephen Grambling:
Hey, thank you. I may have missed this, but I guess how are you thinking about looking currently at the Super Bowl, how that might compare to Formula 1? Is there any way to kind of back out how you think about the contribution from Formula 1 in the quarter and how that might grow next year?
Craig Billings:
Yes, it's a really good question. The Super Bowl is distinctly more corporate in terms of visitation. And so I think that's an important point to keep in mind. So we have -- I alluded to it actually explicitly stated in my prepared remarks, we have very strong front money and credit for Super Bowl about double what we had last year. And that will be a very important segment of our business over the course of the next week and I expect it will generate very strong results. We also have a lot of folks in house who will never go near a gaming table because there's a lot of corporate visitation around this particular event. So the real answer to your question is, we don't know. We're going to see. But if we had to spitball it now, what I would say is that it's not going to be as impactful in the casino, and it will be equally, if not more impactful when it comes to hotel revenue. Fair assessment, Brian?
Brian Gullbrants:
Yeah, both hotel revenues and rates are very similar to Formula 1. The weekend Super Bowl event is another great match, I think, for our brand. And as you said, we're going to have double the credit and track money we had previously. So I think we're in for a great weekend here.
Stephen Grambling:
Great. Thanks so much.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is John DeCree with CBRE.
John DeCree:
Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe two follow-ups. One is on F1, and we've had some conversations. This was the first year, obviously, quite successful for you. Curious how you think about next year and going forward? Is there opportunities to calibrate event and see growth and build upon this? Or do you have a view that the first one in Vegas might be the best. We've had some different folks, different opinions about that, whether next year is a tough comp or an opportunity perhaps to just continue to grow that event for you and for the city?
Craig Billings:
Yeah. Great question. I guess I'll answer that as a Las Vegan and someone who cares about the broader market and wanting to see everybody in the market participate and do really well. There's clearly, I mean, look, the first time you do anything of this scale, you're going to have learnings. And it's just natural. And so I do think that there's a lot that can be done to make the event more relevant for the town more broadly. And I think that F1 understands that. And I think, frankly, the operators in town understand that. Even those like us who disproportionately benefited. So I think the event is only going to get better and better. I think what this year approved is that the core contingent of people that travel to go to an F1 race is our customer. And so you better believe that we will program the heck out of this place yet again, just like we did this F1, this last F1 this coming year, and we will do our best to attract the best customers in the market. And hopefully, again, there will be more opportunities for some of the other tiers of properties in the market to participate in the event this year as they continue to evolve and change the event.
John DeCree:
Thanks, Craig. That's helpful. Maybe one more top down on the other side of the world in Macau. We still hear from investors skittish about some of the uncertainty around the macroeconomic picture in China yet. We continue to see monthly numbers out of Macau and your performance things just continue to recover and grow. Curious if you want to take a stab or someone of the team to kind of weigh in on how Macau's kind of fundamental recovery has been decoupled from that? What you're kind of seeing that it gives some confidence that the recovery trend continues. And if you have any top-down high level comments? It would be helpful.
Craig Billings:
Yes, I'll leave the detailed China macro analysis to people who do that for a living. But there's certainly a lot of crosscurrents to consider. You have tremendous pent-up demand still from several years of mirror closure. You have the ease of proximity to Macau, which actually benefits Macau when the economic situation perhaps isn't as robust as it could be. And you have some modest stimulus efforts that we've seen. But you also, as you rightly pointed out, clearly, have a litany of difficult economic indicators. Yet Macau continues to tread along. So to us, it's really the long-term viability of Macau. We're thinking in kind of 5, 10-year increments. So it's really the long-term viability of Macau that's most relevant. And we're clearly already at levels that allow us the financial and operating flexibility to plan for that longer-term time horizon. So I think it's well observed, maybe not well understood, but well observed that Macau's trajectory does seem to be decoupled from the broader China macro. I think you saw that in 2009 as well. And I think that bodes well for the future. Does it bode well for next quarter? I don't know. Does it bode well for the quarter after that? I don't know. But it certainly bodes well for the future, and that's what we're thinking about.
John DeCree:
Thanks for the -- that long term outlook is great perspective. I really appreciate it. Congratulations on the quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, John. And operator, the next call will be -- the next question will be our last.
Operator:
Thank you. And our final question comes from Chad Beynon with Macquarie. You may go ahead, sir.
Chad Beynon:
Afternoon. Nice result. Thanks for taking my question. Just to kind of pile in on that Macau question. Wondering if you could elaborate a little bit in terms of the health of the shopping retail market. That's something that we've heard from the luxury operators continues to be strong in specific markets. Wondering how you're seeing that right now. And then as some of the catchment areas recover in terms of visitation, if that could be an additional tailwind in the future? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. I guess what I would say is if you look at the trajectory over the course of 2023, retail sales have been and were incredibly strong in Macau up over 2019. You saw -- you can see -- you can look at our numbers, Q3 to Q4, you can see that they were up very, very modestly, I think, about 10 basis points. And so certainly, if anything from China macro is affecting Macau is probably there. But again, given the relative strength compared to pre-COVID, I think it's difficult for us to complain. I think what appears to us to be occurring is, to a certain extent, Macau has become a substitute for Hong Kong from a retail sales perspective. And certainly, based on the changing type of visitation that you see, particularly on Cotai, I think you can support that premise. And so I think it's -- again, if you look at the long term, I think it's very bright for Macau from that perspective. And I think to the extent that someone goes to Macau with a retail-based motivation and the gaming-based motivation or eventually a retail-based motivation and entertainment-based motivation. That's fine. That's great. I mean that's a natural evolution of Macau. But you can see the quarter-over-quarter changes in our numbers.
Chad Beynon:
Perfect. Thank you. And then in terms of the interactive business, is there any update to speak about or could there be an opportunity to monetize or partner this in a shareholder-friendly way?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
I'll take that one. Thanks, Chad. Yes, so we announced in August that we were exiting the jurisdictions we operate in, and we were leaving New York and Michigan under review. So we're continuing to -- that strategic review of those two states, and we'll stay tuned. We'll have more information on that in the near future. Everywhere else is pretty much wrapped up now. We've just -- we're working on closing down Massachusetts online as well. And wherever we're able to and where we can interact with anybody else, obviously, with player databases and so on, we'll make sure that we do the best for our shareholders and monetize the assets that we have in a way that works well with what's allowed and what's available out there in the market.
Chad Beynon:
Great. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you. With that, we'll close the call. Thank you for your interest and we look forward to talking to you again next quarter.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now go ahead and disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings, Brian Gullbrants and Steve Weitman in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those segments may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Afternoon, everyone, and as always, thank you for joining us today. I'll start here in Vegas. Wynn Las Vegas delivered $220 million of adjusted property EBITDA, up 12% on an incredibly difficult year-over-year comp. Yes, it was aided by high hold, but it was also despite the fact that we accrued during the quarter for the estimated increases associated with the new agreement with The Culinary Union. I got to tell you activity at the property was frenetic during the quarter with hotel occupancy, restaurant covers, casino visitation, table drop and slot handle all up over what was a very strong third quarter of 2022. As a result of all that activity, we produced third quarter records in gross gaming revenue, food and beverage revenue, and hotel revenue with 10% year-over-year growth in RevPAR. We continue to be at the top of our game here in Las Vegas and I'm incredibly proud of the team who continue to deliver to our exacting standards, even in the midst of significant customer volumes. Our top line trends remained strong through October with healthy GGR and strong year-over-year RevPAR growth during the month. Looking ahead, we have a strong pipeline of forward group demand, very healthy gaming market share, and a robust programing calendar with F1 and Super Bowl just ahead of us. And while it's certainly is an increasingly complex world out there between inflation, rates, geopolitics, things continue to feel pretty good around here. Turning to Boston Encore generated $60 million of EBITDAR during the quarter. Business the property was largely stable year-on year, with revenue and EBITDA down about 1%. So there were some meaningful pockets of strength, including all-time property records for slot handle and hotel revenue. More recently, we were encouraged by the acceleration in the business we experienced during October with month-over month growth in slot handle and table drop and strong RevPAR growth year-over-year. We will continue to closely monitor the ongoing Sumner Tunnel construction, which is expected to continue in fits and starts over the next 12 months along with the general macroeconomic uncertainty that seems to have been impacting some of the regional gaming operators. On the development across the street from Encore Boston Harbor, we have been asked by a state environmental agency to provide yet another round of analysis and documentation delaying our construction by approximately three months. We will continue to update you on this project, which will add meaningful amenities and EBITDA to Encore Boston Harbor. Turning to Macau, we generated $255 million of EBITDA in the quarter, which was 85% of our pre-COVID levels. Hold was mixed in the quarter, as we held high in our VIP business, which was more than offset by low hold-on the mass table side. With mass now comprising the vast majority of our business, we are going to start normalizing for both VIP and Mass. To that end, we estimate fully normalized EBITDA in the quarter was $266 million or 87% of third-quarter of 2019 levels. Encouragingly, mass hold returned to the expected range at both properties in October. During the quarter, we saw broad-based strength across our properties with several key areas of the business trending well-above 2019 levels. In the casino mass table drop increased 19% versus Q3 2019 and direct VIP turnover was 13% above Q3 2019. On the non-gaming side, our retail business continues to be incredibly strong with tenant retail sales up 24% on Q3 2019, and hotel revenue up 20% relative to the third quarter of 2019. Quality of our product and service, our relaunched Wynn Rewards Loyalty program and our very robust non-gaming events calendar all helped drive GGR market-share in the quarter that was consistent with second quarter and in line with our share as we exited 2019. The strength in our business has continued in Q4 with mass drop-in October 24% above October 2019, 98% hotel occupancy, and healthy tenant retail sales. On the development front in Macau, we expect our first concession related capital project, a collaboration with the team behind Las Vegas based Illuminarium on a mesmerizing, multimedia exhibit space to open before the end-of-the year. We're also deep into design and planning for our other concession related CapEx commitments including our destination food hall, the new event and entertainment center and a unique spectacle show. Lastly, construction continues on Wynn Al Marjan Island. Our planned integrated resort in the UAE. Much of the hotel tower foundation is complete, with nearly all of the piles supporting the 1,500 room tower in the ground. On the back of several recent regulatory developments in the UAE, I've noticed increased chatter about the opportunities there. So. I want to take a moment and give you our perspective. We believe it's highly unlikely that every Emirate will ultimately avail themselves of the right to host an integrated resort. There's a whole bunch of reasons for this, ranging from cultural nuances to population density to varying degrees of need for the additional visitation. Our view is that it will likely be us and us alone for a multi-year period given that we are well underway on construction now. And of course, we all know the advantages of being first as we have seen in other markets. After that, it may be a duopoly or an oligopoly of three. But I find either ultimate market structure undaunting given the database advantages of being first and the fact that we've very successfully operate in the two most competitive markets in the world. Vegas and Macau. As I've said before, this is the most exciting new market opening in decades. With that, I'll now turn it over to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $219.7 million in adjusted property EBITDA and $619 million of operating revenue during the quarter, delivering an EBITDA margin of 35.5%. Higher than normal hold benefited EBITDA by around $12 million in Q3 and hold normalized adjusted property EBITDA was up slightly year-over-year. The strength in the quarter was broad-based across the business. Hotel revenue increased 10% year-over-year, to $178.5 million, a new third quarter record on the back of a 9% increase in ADR and 120 basis point increase in occupancy. Our other non-gaming businesses was strong across food and beverage, entertainment, and retail all-up nicely year-on year. In the casino, GGR increased around 22% year-over-year, driven by a 7.6% year-over-year increase, in slot handle a 6.5% increase in table drop, along with higher table games hold. OpEx excluding gaming tax per day was $4.1 million in Q3 2023, up 14% year-over-year due to variable costs associated with revenue increases, roughly $10 million of non-recurring items and certain structural changes, including an accrual for the anticipated increases associated with the new union contract, our annual cost of living adjustments for non-Union employees and the launch of our production show. Turning to Boston. We generated adjusted property EBITDA of $60.5 million on revenue of $210.4 million both down around 1% year-on year. EBITDA margin was 28.8%, broadly in line with Q3 2022. As Craig noted business was largely stable year-on year. In the casino, we generated $182.6 million of GGR down 1% year-on year as record slot handle was offset by lower table games volume. Our non-gaming revenue was flat year-over-year at $54.4 million with record hotel revenue offset by lower food and beverage revenues. As noted on our prior call, and as Craig mentioned earlier, business volumes at the property were impacted by the Sumner Tunnel Restoration Project, which is expected to continue intermittently over the next 12 months or so. While the tunnel construction is out of our control, we have stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx excluding gaming tax of approximately $1.13 million per day in Q3 2023, down 0.5% year-over-year and down around 2% sequentially. The team has done a great job mitigating union related payroll increases with cost efficiencies in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $255 million in the quarter on $819.8 million of operating revenue. We estimate lower-than-normal hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $11 million during the quarter with higher-than-normal hold at Wynn Palace, more than offset by lower-than-normal hold at Wynn Macau. We felt particular strength in mass casino drop, direct VIP turnover luxury retail sales and hotel revenue all above Q3 2019 levels. EBITDAR margin was 31.1% in the quarter, an increase of 300 basis points relative to Q3 2019 with Wynn Palace margin reaching 33.7%, while 660 basis points above Q3 2019 levels. Our concession-related non-gaming programing have accelerated over the past few months with the FIBA 3x3 basketball tournament, the Da Vinci Immersive art exhibition, the Hypercar exhibition, some DJ events, and several other well-received concerts and culinary events. EBITDA margin strength was driven by a combination of the favorable -- with favorable mix-shift to higher-margin mass gaming and operating leverage on cost efficiencies. Our OpEx excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.4 million per day in Q3, a decrease of 20% compared to $3 million in Q3 2019. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs and we are well positioned to continue to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over-time. In terms of CapEx, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on our concession commitments. And as we noted the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx in the very near term. As such, we expect CapEx-related to our concession commitments to range between $300 million and $400 million in total between Q4 2023 and the end of 2024. Turning to Wynn Interactive, you will recall we announced in August that we decided to rationalize the business to primarily focus on Massachusetts and Nevada, where we have a physical presence. As a result, our EBITDA burn rate decreased substantially, both sequentially and year-over-year to $4.9 million in Q3 2023. Moving on to the balance sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $4.3 billion as of September 30th. This was comprised of $1.8 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $2.5 billion in the U.S. Importantly, the combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally with our properties run rating over $2.1 billion of annualized property EBITDA together with our robust cash and liquidity, creates a very healthy leverage and free cash flow profile for the company globally. To that end, we repurchased $400 million of our 2025 Wynn Las Vegas senior notes at a discount to par during the quarter. Further, the board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share payable on November 30 to stockholders of record as of November 20, 2023. We also repurchased approximately 597,000 shares for $56.2 million during the quarter, highlighting our commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter with $114 million, primarily related to the spa villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas, concession related CapEx in Macau, and normal-course maintenance across the business. With that we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hi, Craig. Julie, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Craig, the market in the 3Q. Was that about annualized about $24.5 billion, which is about 8% kind of below the midpoint of that range you spoke to earlier in the year, I believe what was on the first quarter call. It looks like just annualizing 3Q results and not adjusting for hold you're about halfway there at the Macau property and basically there at 2019 levels give or take a couple of million bucks at the at the Cotai property. Based on what you've seen over the last kind of six months since that call, the way the markets evolve from several perspectives. Does that kind of benchmark for market GGR still hold true with kind of how you're thinking about getting back to those 2019 levels in totality.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Carlo. Yes, Your observation on Wynn Palace is right. I mentioned earlier in the year. You're right, it was with the Q1 call that Wynn Palace would get back to 2019 levels. First. And if you as you said, if you annualize what we did in 3Q, it's in that in that same zone. I think Wynn Palace did normalized in 2019, something like $675 million. So when it comes to Wynn Palace, we can check the box. We've done it. In October, when the market was run rating over $28 billion, obviously, we had Golden Week, Wynn Palace normalized EBITDA per day exceeded October 2019 as you would expect. Wynn Macau, which had healthy results but lower market share in October versus 2019 for many other reasons that we've talked about on previous calls, did not exceed its October 2019 EBITDA. So it's lagging our prediction a tad. And we need to see market share stability and growth at Wynn Macau to get back to 2019 levels. The last point I would make is that our concession related non-gaming programing has picked-up. Honestly, quite a bit faster than I had anticipated earlier in the year. As Julie talked about in her prepared remarks, we've been doing some pretty amazing programing and it's generated a bit of extra OpEx that is in fact a slight headwind. Of course, in these early days we're figuring out what programing is EBITDA-positive, what's not, et cetera and we'll drop that program and that ultimately isn't. But that extra OpEx probably pushes the full EBITDA recovery at Wynn Macau back a bit, but speaks to the strength of Wynn Palace because even with that incremental OpEx, we've hit that target that talked about. At the end-of-the day, I guess, what I look at is, we've proven that we can hold share without junkets, that we have structurally better margins. And then, our business is pretty well-positioned for growth in Macau as the market continues to come back. So I feel pretty good about where we are.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, that's helpful. And then if I could, just one follow-up. Obviously, a lot has been made in recent earnings around reinvestment within the Macau gaming arena. It's always hard to tell when looking at kind of the public filings and releases and whatnot, it doesn't look like there was anything sizable in this quarter in terms of reinvestment, the direction of reinvestment one-way or another. Could you comment a little bit about kind of how you guys see that data relative to 2019, maybe how you see it now and how you see a trending.
Craig Billings:
Yes. I think your analysis, what you just said is correct. I mean, reinvestment in that market can bounce around for us anyway. I can't really speak to the rest of the market, but it can bounce around 50 basis points, 60 basis points, 70 basis points in any given point in time, but I haven't seen anything that is irrational or substantive.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. And our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, guys. Just going back to your earlier comments. Craig, on October in Macau, the two properties in the aggregate. How close are they at October 2019 EBITDA levels in the aggregate. Obviously, Wynn Palace ahead Wynn Macau as you mentioned it.
Craig Billings:
Yes I would say that they are lagging slightly behind our view. Nothing -- our earlier view again view. Again, nothing, you know, nothing tragic. But the strength at Wynn Palace inclusive of the programing costs that I mentioned and the impact of that. And the work we still have to do at Wynn Macau, you know, those are the dynamics of the two properties now. And I would say that it was slightly below but again we're within line-of-sight at this point and I just not all that worried about it.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then my follow-up question relates to Wynn Al Marjan, Craig what are the next steps and the timing for the next steps there, including the issuance of a license.
Craig Billings:
Sure. The regulations are in draft form the regulations, we expect the regulations will be passed. And then what we expect that the licensing process is a two-step process. The issuance of a provisional license. And then a final license, and I would expect that that would happen soon. So it's go, it's happening. The process is moving along. You've seen that they've appointed leadership for the regulatory body there. And I think, by the way, I think that's really good for the market because it lends a lot of certainty eliminates a lot of questions that we used to get, and it creates a lot of certainty for financing sources, which allows us to move forward with the construction financing relatively quickly.
Joe Greff:
Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. And our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. I was hoping you could comment a little bit about the just the high-end play in Las Vegas. It seems like we definitely starting to see material rebound there and kind of can you just talk a little bit about behavior that you're seeing maybe a level of recovery. And just kind of some of the dynamics there would be helpful.
Craig Billings:
Sure, I'll start and then I'll see if Brian has anything to add. I mean, that's really kind of our business. So I can't say that that we've seen anything materially different this quarter than we've seen in the past few quarters. The numbers, I mean you can look at the revenue numbers, the revenue numbers are incredibly strong. And so. we're pretty proud of what we've been able to deliver over the course of the past year. High-end international play remains a little bit of a mixed bag as it has over the course of really since the reopening from COVID. But I feel great about where our database is. We always skew towards the high-end. Brian, would you add anything to that.
Brian Gullbrants:
Yes, our team is continuing to do a great job. I think we're still continuing to steal share. We continue to expand the hosting team and everything is real positive as we look-forward.
Shaun Kelley:
Just as a quick follow-up. Any OpEx still and I think this was maybe in Julie's remarks. I heard something about maybe a $10 million impact in Las Vegas. I was wondering if I caught that correctly, if you could elaborate a little bit on what they may have been.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure, yes. I mean, I mentioned that there were a number of factors impacting OpEx, which did increase to $4.1 million in the quarter. There were a number of one-off items added up to about $10 million in the quarter that we wanted to call-out that will be non-recurring. But in addition to that, of course, as Craig mentioned, and I added to, we did accrue for the anticipated union outcome. We also, you know, we took in Akola increased cost of living allowance increase for our non-Union employees effective 1st of July. We had the, you know, the launch of a awakening the relaunch of awakening in the program, which we're just starting to ramp in the quarter as well. And so, you know, the combination of those factors will drove up the operating expense. And yes, I can confirm, it was a $10 million onetime non-recurring item.
Craig Billings:
And it was a mixed bag of stuff, Shaun.
Shaun Kelley:
Perfect, thank you so much.
Craig Billings:
You got it.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead sir.
Dan Politzer:
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. First one, just wanted to touch on the promotional environment in Macau, some of your competitors have made comment that they are being more aggressive. So I just wanted to check, check with you there, and I know, you know, the contra-revenue has picked-up a little bit in the quarter. I think that's mostly in Wynn Macau, but just anything to kind of call-out there in terms of the environment at your properties.
Craig Billings:
No. A colleague of yours has had a similar question just a couple of minutes ago. Nothing to call-out on the reinvestment side, as I said. To him, you know, Our reinvestment can bounce around 50 basis points, 60 basis points, 70 basis points at any given point in time from time-to-time, but nothing that looks -- we don't see anything that looks irrational or of course concrete trend. In terms of the mix of what is contra-revenue versus running through OpEx, you may recall that we relaunched our loyalty program earlier this year. The structure of that program allows for a lot more flexibility for the customer in terms of what it is they are choosing to be rewarded with and that can cause shifts in movements of a $1 of reinvestment between contra revenue or between OpEx but it's the same dollar. So it's really not any indication of an increase in reinvestment per se. It's really just geography, on the income statement.
Dan Politzer:
Okay, so just some accounting nuance, okay. And then just moving to Las Vegas, you know, obviously, F1 is right around the corner. It seems like this is an event that skews more to the high-end. And that's right in your wheelhouse. Is there any way to think about, you know, the EBITDA uplift given some of your competitors have thrown out this kind of mid-single-digit type EBITDA lift.
Craig Billings:
Yes, we won't. Well, I'll tell you this. I've heard on a couple of our competitors calls commentary around expectations coming down within the market. I will tell you that our expectations for F1 haven't changed one bit, because as you rightly pointed out, we knew that it was our customer-base that would be at that event from the beginning. We have more front money and credit lined-up for this event than any event in the history of Wynn Las Vegas. And we've had some doozy before. So this is shaping up to be a great event for us. We're incredibly excited, we're not talking about EBITDA uplift. But it's going to be good. Brian, what would add?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure, I'd say F1 is really come in nicely right now for all areas of our business. We should exceed actually our all-time hotel revenue as well. Our hotel revenue record by about 50% for the three day period. And as Craig mentioned, the gaming revenue and credits, looking quite promising. Some of the best we've ever seen. So I think, we're looking-forward to an exciting and exceptional race week here at Wynn.
Craig Billings:
We barely even put any rooms on public sale. I mean, we had -- we've had robust demand.
Dan Politzer:
Understood. Thanks so much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. And our next caller is Brandt Montour with Barclays. You may go ahead sir.
Brandt Montour:
Good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. So back to Macau, and we talked about this on prior calls, Craig, about the Peninsula. There was some disruption earlier in the year that I think tailed off into the early part of this quarter. But maybe you could just remind us the game plan of how you're going to get more recovery at that property. Any update there would be helpful.
Craig Billings:
Yes, sure, you're right. Disruption did tail-off at the in the early portion of this quarter. There were some trailing works, including some work that was done in some of the high-end salon areas that took a little bit longer, but in the main, your statement is correct. And now, it's really the hand-to-hand combat of gaining market-share. I mean, we've done this -- we've done this before, you know, Wynn Palace opened, we were not nearly as experienced to some of our competitors in mass marketing. We got experienced very fast. And you can see obviously the results of that at Palace. And so it's really kind of every lever that you have to pull. Right. It comes down to the hosting team, it comes down to food and beverage, it comes down to some entities that you're offering. It's everything. And so, I can't tell you that there is one silver bullet. It really doing at 1 basis point at a time and that's where we're focused now.
Brandt Montour:
That's super helpful. And then another question. Macau, the OpEx consideration from the concession commitments, it's probably too early to quantify what that is for next year. But maybe you could give us a little bit of flavor for, if it's going to be how the mix will sort of skew between Peninsula and Cotai and sort of how it might and how it might the cadence might step-up throughout the year?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure maybe I'll start with maybe Craig can add if I miss anything. I'll just talk sort of more broadly for our whole Macau business. Sequentially, you’ll have seen that the OIBDA margin decreased around 90 basis points. About half of that was due to lower hold. But there was an additional $6 million of OpEx sequentially due to bad debt swing, because we could have a credit in Q2. You know, and then as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, I think I gave you a pretty detailed list of all the non-gaming programing that we've really accelerated and started doing in the last few months with the FIBA tournament, that Davinci exhibition, the Hypercar exhibition, some DJ events and concerts and culinary events. So when you adjust for that noise, the margin improvement thing is clearly operating leverage because we held share and we were prudent with OpEx. So you know, if we think about going-forward, we're expecting margin at Palace to generally stay-in the current range, and margin at Wynn Macau to improve as business volumes come back. So there will be quarter-to-quarter variations in our events calendar as we continue to rollout programming associated with our concession commitments.
Craig Billings:
And it's too, it's really too early to say. Honestly, I didn't, when I think about everything we've done this year, and the list is extensive. I actually didn't expect it to pick-up this quickly. The team has gotten incredibly creative and incredibly resourceful in terms of what they've done. And keep in mind. We do not yet have certain tools that our competitors have like an arena or an event center. Now that's part of our plan. From a CapEx perspective. And part of our CapEx, concession commitments. And so we'll catch-up in due course. But it's really too early to say what the seasonal cadence will be because some can be done only outside of typhoon season, others can be done, year round. And it's also a little too early to say what the split will be between properties. I don't think it changes the investment thesis much. I mean you're talking about a few million dollars here and there, but it's important in terms of fulfilling our concession commitments. And honestly, it's important. If you do it right. It's important in terms of building a brand into that region, similar to what we've done in Vegas, frankly with all the program that we've done here, it's important for building your brands. And for casino marketing.
Brandt Montour:
Helpful comments. Thanks all.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thanks all.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. And our next caller is Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great, thanks. Two questions, one is and I don't know if this may not be a key in your view to the Peninsula property recovering. But I'm curious if you have a view on the kind of the grind mass visitor coming back to Macau or, you know, what it will take for that customer to recover to 2019 levels, if you see it as a transportation bottleneck issue or kind of macro factors in Mainland China or. I guess, just would love to get your take on that.
Craig Billings:
Sure, Robin. I think it's a little bit all-of-the-above. You're correct in that downtown is much more skewed towards transient customers. Towards a more base mass to use the term customer. And we benefit when visitation -- we benefit there disproportionately visitation to Macau is high. And so as visitation to the market returns, which inevitably, I believe it will, we will benefit from that. Of course, we don't want to -- and that's due to any number of factors, many of which you've described. Of course, we don't want to wait for that. Right. So in the meantime, we need to be very-very focused on market share and driving operating leverage by gaining market share. But no doubt as that transient customer comes back, downtown We'll benefit disproportionately to Palace, which is already doing extremely well.
Robin Farley:
Thank you. And then just the other question is, just wondering why you're adjusting for hold in the mass business in Macau, you haven't done it historically other operators like it's typically sort of not done. So just why the change in thought and why that would be something to start adjusting for. Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure, others not doing it has never been a reason for us to consider. We have no problem being the first ore being a little bit of an outlier. It's really because of the mix of our business now. I mean, we are disproportionately mass now. So what we're trying to do is give a clearer view of how the assets are performing by providing a normalized number. Frankly, the same way we do in Vegas.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great, thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. You may go-ahead.
Stephen Grambling:
Thanks. So you referenced accruing for the union contract in Vegas in the quarter. And I'm sure, you still have an impact in the fourth-quarter. But as we look-forward to 2024, how are you thinking about the major puts and takes to margins and whether you can hold margins and data similar to what you were just kind of outlining in Macau. Obviously, different considerations here.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Well, first, it is important note before I get to the crux of your question. Normalized margin historically comprises from Q2 to Q3. You can go back and see that and it's really due to the customer mix during the summer months. To your primary question. as we've said before, we really view margin as an outcome of aggressively driving revenues and diligently managing costs and outcome, not a target. So we don't forecast margin per se. On the revenue side. I think our results in Q3, speak for themselves and we will continue to make sure that we have the best offering in Vegas. On the cost side. Julie mentioned a whole bunch of factors affecting Q3 in her prepared remarks. And with respect to the labor cost increases that you referenced, we are of course looking at ways to offset some of them. And as I've said before, because of COVID, we have a playbook for every scenario out there and we know-how to run the business as efficiently as possible at any given revenue. But as always, we will focus on our service levels in our brand. And so if demand continues to be as strong as it is right now will we trim solely to claw-back. I don't have a point of margin. For example, yet damage the brand now, but if the demand picture or a pricing power changes. We will of course manage OpEx accordingly in a manner that is best for the long-ter.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. And then one follow-up on the top line. How should we think about Super Bowl versus Formula 1 for you, do you generally think that this will be a different customer base. The same customer base. I guess what are you seeing as you get closer to Formula 1 and start to see bookings, I imagine for capable at least interest.
Craig Billings:
I guess it at a headline level, and then I'll turn it over to Brian. Think about it as international individuals and domestic group, but Brian, would you add anything to that.
Brian Gullbrants:
No, I agree with you, Craig. I think on the casino side, we're going to see a very similar overlap. But on the transient side, we're going to see heavy domestic. We're really looking-forward to it. And already getting quite a bit of interest with one heck of a waiting list on the corporate side. I think we'll even do stronger. There's a tremendous amount of demand on the corporate group side for hospitality entertaining at the highest-level and our specialty here at Wynn, so I think, it'll pair very well for Super Bowl. So we're looking-forward to two successful weekends.
Robin Farley:
Thank you. I'll jump back-in the queue.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is David Katz with Jefferies.
David Katz:
Afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I'd love just a little more color on how we think about margins going-forward. I admit, it's one of the, you know, aspects of the model where we've spent more time and thought and trying to get those particularly in Macau. What a normalized margin could be and what the puts and takes are around that. Obviously, not asking for specific guidance number. Just some qualitative commentary. Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Julie, do you want to cover again you're thinking on...
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Yes. I think, David I think I run through it. And clearly, you heard the point about sequentially, we had to move-in margin was really, you know, a bunch of timing with the credit from OpEx, you know, we hold in the credit from OpEx in versus Q2. There, If you think about the way we look at it, we manage our OpEx really tightly and we, you know, we're thinking really carefully about our concession commitments and how we can program really effectively to use them, really as a marketing effort to drive that kind of brand recognition and attract customers in. You know, we've done a lot of that and that has impacted building OpEx per day-in the quarter. In the early days, I think some of those will work and some of them won't, and we're going to get a better sense of that and we'll be, you know, it's not sure about the kinds of things that we'll do. But, you know, coming back to what I said, we're expecting, you know, the margin for Wynn Palace to generally stay where it's at. And for Wynn Macau to improve with operating leverage, you know, as business volumes return. We -- the coast of coast there'll be some small movement, but we wouldn't expect it to be significant from the events calendar in Macau.
Craig Billings:
But importantly both properties are structurally higher than they were in 2019. So, you know, we're doing great from a margin perspective. If we can yield and I do believe we can if we can yield Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace rather rooms. Appropriately, because as you know, it's not about occupancy, it's about who is in the room. Then we could see some incremental margin expansion there, but. I wouldn't underwrite it yet. I think Wynn Macau's Wynn Palace as margin is great as it is and I would hold at that level and Wynn Macau, it's a question of operating leverage coming from volumes.
David Katz:
Right. And so, if I may just following that up, as you continue to add in, you know, more non-gaming elements. Should we think about that as somewhat of a headwind to sort of finding that comfortable margin. Or, you know, are those just really vehicles for maintaining where you're going to wind-up, you know, from gaming anyway.
Craig Billings:
Yes, I would break that into two pieces. I would say that as we bring material CapEx online like an event center or a spectacle show, those businesses will have a margin profile in and off themselves, and they will be additive to our gaming business and ultimately drive gaming customer visitation, which will be accretive to margin. But it's way too early to even talk about that even at a qualitative level, given where we are in the CapEx cycle. With respect to programing, which is what we're doing now, which is essentially more OpEx driven with the facilities that we have today. If you were able to do that without having a material impact on margin, and you saw that in Q3, where we did a reasonable amount of programing at Wynn Palace, actually. And we were still able to deliver the margin that we have shown you today.
David Katz:
Okay. Thank you. Good luck.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thanks. Our next question will be our last. Thanks, operator.
Operator:
Thank you. John DeCree with CBRE Securities. You may go ahead sir.
John DeCree:
Hi, everyone. Just one for me, maybe finish up with a quick capital allocation discussion. So I guess the share repurchase, a bit higher than we've seen in the quarter and also the tender for the Wynn Las Vegas notes. Julie or Craig. Curious if you could tell us how you're thinking about, you know, allocating capital in the quarter. And then as we look-ahead. We have the dividend and some CapEx that's on the horizon. So, you know, how are you kind of thinking about capital allocation for, you know, for things like we saw in the 3Q as well, but share repurchases are being opportunistic with your debt.
Craig Billings:
Yes, sure. So we're about -- we're always balancing some liquidity needs, right, between capital deployment growth returning capital to shareholders, et cetera. And we're in a good position to do kind of all-of-the-above right now, you just mentioned a bunch of potential uses in your question. And as you know, we restarted our dividend earlier this year. So we're really well-capitalized. And I expect that we're going to maintain extra liquidity until we see how a few things play-out. The situation in New York, macroeconomy., the yield curve, et cetera, et cetera. I would say, our bias is to even in a rising rate environment to try to stay-in a. Our free-cash flow position comparable to where we are now. We're fortunate to have a lot of long-dated fixed debt. So we have a lot of time to figure that out. And for the yield curve to potentially move before we're in a position to materially refinance. But between now and the point at which we know the fate of the license in New York, I would expect that we're going to do when the stock is mispriced, as we believe it has been. We're going to do some share repurchases. We'll manage the debt stack, consistent with what I just talked about in terms of wanting to fade some incremental interest expense. And then of course, we have capital deployment that we'll be doing to build a luxurious beautiful property in the UAE. So that's kind of where we are.
John DeCree:
Okay, that's helpful. Craig. I appreciate your thoughts. Congratulations on the quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thank you very much.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Well, thank you. Thank you, everyone. So that will now conclude the Q3 earnings call for Wynn. Thank you for your interest and we look-forward to talking to you again.
Craig Billings:
Thanks everybody.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now go-ahead and disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. All participants’ are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded, if you have objection you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings, Brian Gullbrants, and Steve Weitman in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto, and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. Well, what a quarter. Who would have thought just six months ago that we would be run rating $2.2 billion of property EBITDA. To put that in context, peak annual property EBITDA for the company was $2 billion in 2018. Yet, here we are today. We have a more diversified business with the addition of Encore Boston Harbor; we have a business in Macau that is running structurally higher margins into a resurging market; a business in Las Vegas that is more relevant than ever and is producing nearly double its 2018 EBITDA on much higher margins; and we have a very substantial growth opportunity in the UAE, the most exciting new gaming market in decades. I see tremendous value in our business, and I know our brightest days are ahead of us. Our path is the clearest it has been in years, and our team is committed and energized. Turning to the quarter, and starting in Vegas. Wynn Las Vegas delivered $224 million of adjusted property EBITDAR. On a hold-normalized basis, our EBITDA was up 3% on a very difficult year-over-year comp. We saw strength all over the place; the casino, the hotel, the restaurants, retail, you name it. All supported by a consumer that seems more than willing to continue spending on unique luxury experiences. Now, we obviously have a very particular customer type, skewing heavily to luxury; and we continue to closely monitor whether or not interest rates and inflation begin to impact that consumer, but so far, so good. In fact, drop, handle and RevPAR are all up year-over-year in July. And that's obviously before we get into the latter portion of the year, which has a number of tailwinds from city-wide programming. Turning to Boston, like Vegas, Encore had a strong quarter, generating $69 million of EBITDAR, an all-time property record. We generated record GGR in the casino, led by strong growth in slot handle and the addition of retail sports betting earlier this year. On the non-gaming side, we delivered strong hotel revenue, driven by both ADR and occupancy. On the development front in Boston, we're advancing our East of Broadway expansion project now. Turning to Macau, we generated $246 million of EBITDAR in the quarter, which was 72% of pre-COVID levels. Hold was a bit of a mixed bag in the quarter as we held high in our VIP business, but that was more than offset by low hold on the mass table side. We saw strength across the property with several components of the business above 2019 levels. In the casino, mass table drop increased 4% versus Q2 2019, despite the fact that portions of Wynn Macau's casino were closed for renovation during the quarter. The quality of our product and service, the relaunch of our loyalty program, and our very robust non-gaming events calendar, all helped drive 14.2% market share in the quarter, consistent with our share as we exited 2019. On the non-gaming side, our retail business continues to be incredibly strong, with tenant retail sales increasing 47% relative to 2Q 2019. Looking forward, as you have seen, market-wide GGR momentum in Macau has been impressive, building through the second quarter. The strength has continued into Q3 with mass drop per day in July exceeding what we experienced in each month in Q2 and reaching 120% of daily mass drop in 2019. In July, we also continue to experience robust hotel occupancy and very healthy tenant retail sales. On the development front, we are deep into design and planning for our concession-related CapEx commitments, which we believe will help support Macau's long-term diversification goals and be additive to our business over the coming years. Lastly, construction is now underway on Wynn Al Marjan Island, our planned integrated resort in the UAE, with our secant walls and soil compaction complete and over 40% of the required hotel piles in the ground. As I said earlier, this is the most exciting new market opening in decades, and we will bring our A game to this development. Our 40% equity ownership and management license fees will drive a very healthy ROI for Wynn Resorts shareholders. With that, I will now turn it back to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter. Julie?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $224.1 million in adjusted property EBITDAR on $578.1 million of operating revenue during the quarter, delivering an EBITDA margin of 38.8%. Slightly lower-than-normal hold negatively impacted EBITDAR by around $2 million in Q2 and hold-normalized adjusted property EBITDAR was up 3% year-over-year. Our hotel revenue increased 6% year-over-year to $177.8 million, a new second quarter record on the back of an increase of 24,000 occupied room nights. Due to rooms that were out of service for renovations in Q2 2022. ADR, occupancy and RevPAR were all up slightly, compared to Q2 2022, despite the increase in available room nights, highlighting the appeal of our newly renovated room product. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across food and beverage, entertainment, and retail. In the casino, our GGR increased around 2% year-over-year, driven by a 14.8% year-over-year increase in slot handle and table drop that was roughly flat. Turning to Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDAR of $69.1 million, an all-time property record. EBITDAR margin was 31.1%, up 80 basis points year-over-year. We saw broad-based strength across casino and non-gaming during the quarter. In the casino, we generated $193 million of GGR, a property record, with strength in both tables and slots. Our non-gaming revenue grew 3.8% year-over-year to $55.1 million with particular strength in hotel and food and beverage. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day, of approximately $1.15 million in Q2 2023, up 3.6% year-over-year on increased business volumes and down 1% sequentially. As you may have seen in the press, we were pleased to recently sign new union agreements that provide our employees with competitive wages, benefits, and a best-in-class working environment that reflects our Wynn service standards. We expect the incremental OpEx from the new agreements to be partially offset by cost efficiencies we have identified in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience. Additionally, I would like to note that business volumes in Q3 are temporarily being negatively impacted by the Sumner Tunnel Restoration Project the City of Boston is conducting that will be ongoing through August 31. The impact is primarily being felt in our table games business as both slots and non-gaming revenue continued to grow year-on-year in July. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDAR of $246.2 million in the quarter on $769.9 million of operating revenue. As Craig noted, we held high in our VIP business, but this was more than offset by lower-than-expected hold on the mass table side. We were encouraged by the meaningful uptick in visitation and demand we experienced during the quarter, with particular strength in mass casino drop, direct VIP turnover, luxury retail sales, and hotel revenue, all above Q2 2019 levels. EBITDAR margin was 32% in the quarter, an increase of 280 basis points relative to Q2 2019, with Wynn Palace's margin reaching 33.4%, or 690 basis points above Q2 2019 levels. EBITDAR margin strength was driven by a combination of the favorable mix shift to higher margin mass gaming and operating leverage on cost efficiencies. In fact, our OpEx, excluding gaming tax, was approximately $2.2 million per day in Q2, a decrease of 29%, compared to $3.2 million in Q2 2019 and down 2% from Q1, despite the meaningful sequential increase in business volumes. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs, and we're well positioned to continue to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. In terms of CapEx, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on our concession commitments. And as we noted the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx in the very near term. As such, for 2023 through 2024, we expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $300 million and $400 million. Turning to Wynn Interactive, our EBITDAR burn rate decreased both sequentially and year-over-year to $15 million in Q2 2023. Our team continues to stay disciplined on costs, while driving improved marketing efficiency. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong, with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $4.7 billion as of June 30. This was comprised of $1.8 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $2.9 billion in the U.S. Importantly, the combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally, with our properties run rating approximately $2.2 billion of annualized property EBITDAR, together with our robust cash and liquidity, creates a very healthy leverage profile for the company globally. We're also pleased to announce that the Board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share, payable on August 31, 2023 to stockholders of record as of August 21, 2023, highlighting our commitment to returning capital to shareholders. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $92 million, primarily related to the spa villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas and normal course maintenance across the business. With that, we'll now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead, sir.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, Craig, Julie, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. So, Craig, just on the Macau front, obviously, the reduction sequentially in daily OpEx was a little bit of a differentiator relative to what we've seen in some peer reports. Can you talk a little bit more about that? And also, it looks as though your implied, commissions, discounts, et cetera, were as a percentage of revenue were down nicely sequentially. Do you expect, kind of, that trend to continue going forward?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Carlo. well, first, on the OpEx side, I think that we're always modulating OpEx based on business volumes and what we need to get done in any particular quarter. I think the distinction between us and perhaps some of the other folks that have reported that you have seen is that we opened with a full complement of folks. And so we weren't dragging floors, we didn't have rooms out of service, et cetera, et cetera. And so we came out of the gate, with the full OpEx that you're seeing today and any movements between quarters is really going to be a function of in that quarter. On the commissions and discounts, there hasn't been any substantial change to how we do that. So again, that's going to be quite player specific based on the parameters of each player. And so again, I wouldn't read too much into it.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. And then if I could, Craig, a follow-up, turning to Las Vegas, obviously, very strong performance on the -- especially on the cost discipline side. Can you talk a little bit? I believe your labor contract actually ended in July. So I wouldn't have expected any impact, but could you talk a little bit about how you guys intend to kind of accrue for what may be a settlement and some new terms going forward or anything that was present in the 2Q perhaps?
Craig Billings:
Sure. How much time have you got, Carlo?
Carlo Santarelli:
I've done plenty, plenty, I guess.
Craig Billings:
Well, first, what I'll say is this, first and foremost, the team at Wynn Las Vegas is the heart and soul of the place. They're very important to me and it's the same reason that we paid everybody, during the closure, during COVID. And if you look over the term of the last union contracts, their contractual wage increases initially outpaced inflation. And then, of course, lagged inflation over the course of the past couple of years. Net-net, over the last contract, they were actually flat versus core CPI. But unfortunately, and it's a reality, rent in Las Vegas has increased more than CPI over that same period. And it's very important to me that our employees can support a stable home environment for their families. So I expect there'll be some back and forth as we work with culinary to find a fair compensation level that supports our folks particularly our non-tip folks and their ability to maintain their housing. It's pretty early in the process, so we're not really even close to quantifying dollars yet or talking about accruals. But rest assured, we'll figure it out in a way that's positive for the business over the medium and long-term.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. And our next caller is Joe Greff with JP Morgan.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, guys. Craig, when you look back at the 2Q, would you say in Macau, would you say Wynn Macau in the Peninsula was had a meaningful amount of renovation disruptor to the EBITDAR line that you would call out or do you think you were able to effectively shift what would otherwise have been disrupted to either other parts of the casino or to your property in Cotai?
Craig Billings:
Well, the renovations -- thanks, Joe the renovations that took place were smack dab in the middle of a casino floor. So certainly there was a level of disruption. I think the more macro point would be that a lot of the visitation that has come back, particularly for us, has come back in Cotai. And we've -- if you think about a world where there are no longer any junkets, yet we're holding market share, I'm incredibly proud of what we've been able to do on a combined basis. But certainly, we have work to do in terms of share, downtown. And the business will go as that share goes. It's pretty simple business, you market share times the market minus taxes, minus OpEx equals EBITDA. So our focus is on driving share downtown and really that's the way that we think about the business going forward. And that's why we did the renovations in the first place. So I don't want to give you the impression that the quarter’s results were entirely a function of the renovation, because they're not, but certainly on the margin they were impacted.
Joe Greff:
Got it. And I'm presuming the renovation was completed at some point in June. If you can confirm that, but would you expect that Cotai and Peninsula would be more in balance going forward similar to 2019? Or do you think visitation dynamics are such where the Cotai region is just going to get a little bit more traction?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Confirmed and the latter.
Joe Greff:
Got it. Okay. And then you called out, as others did in the 1Q and parts of the 2Q this reporting season, talking about low hold on the mass side. We can see the whole percentages the last couple of quarters versus what you did in 2019 at both properties. What is that a function of? Are players betting side bets or playing differently or is it really just a couple of quarters of aberrations and expected table hold percentages?
Craig Billings:
Yes, you're right. And historically, by the way, we haven't normalized for mass hold. And that was -- that made sense when the business was more balanced between mass and VIP. So that's something we're going to rethink going forward. But to your question very specifically, it's really a function of two things, and it was most acute at Wynn Macau rather than Wynn Palace. It's a function of volumes and normal course volatility. So you mentioned just normal aberrations and certainly that's part of it, but volume inherently smooths volatility. So when you had tour groups and you had core mass and you had just more bodies coming to Macau, the impact of volatility was inherently muted. And that's just not the case right now. So I would expect continue to see volatility, sometimes it'll be to our benefit and sometimes it'll be to the players.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. So Craig, maybe one more about Macau, but just wondering if you could give a little bit of color about, sort of, segments of business, what you're seeing across, particularly behavior wise, across premium mass and VIP. And I'm really thinking kind of spend per visit relative to what's left to recover on the visitation side as you look to see things normalize?
Craig Billings:
Yes, I'm going to not comment on VIP, because it's obviously very patron, specific and VIP volumes are while surprisingly good, still a fraction of what they were previously. On the mass side, we've seen length of stay decline, which makes sense, because during COVID, if you made the commitment to come, you were coming for an extended period, but we've seen spend per customer actually go up. And so frequency has increased. Length of stay has decreased and spend per customer has gone up, which is great because that gives you the opportunity to make efficient use of your rooms, and is generally good for business. But I don't really have a comment on VIP.
Q - Shaun Kelle:
Very helpful. And then, maybe one for you or Julie, just wanted to ask about the CapEx comment in the prepared remarks. I believe the call out was around some of the concession commitments and something around $300 million to $400 million. The question is, was that a per year number or is that a total number across kind of 2023 and 2024. And then if you can just remind us how you're thinking about sort of the CapEx versus possible OpEx components related to the -- that concession process. And I know it's a little different for everybody. And I know these plans are moving around some?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. Thanks, Shaun. I'll take that. Yes, that number we've given out the $300 million to $400 million is the ‘23 to ’24. And really, we've done that, I think we've always foreshadowed that the process takes some time, because of all the different approvals that are required. So, you know, we were hopeful that we would get more on this year, but actually now we're looking at, you know, between the $300 million to $400 million over the ‘23 to ‘24 period in total. In terms of how we're thinking about the concession, it's more than half of the commitment we made, more than half of the $2 billion is CapEx related. And we do expect that to be front end loaded. So obviously, with the $300 million to $400 million in the first two years. And then a similar clip to that for a couple of years after that.
Craig Billings:
And then I would just point out that on the OpEx side, I would just like to remind you that there's a lot of things that we do in the business today that already support nongaming. And so we don't expect all of that to be incremental.
Shaun Kelley:
Very clear. Thank you, everyone.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. You may go ahead, sir.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi, thanks. Maybe a clarification on July in Macau. I think you said the run rate was 120% of 2019 levels on hold. Should we think of that as true for hold adjusted win rate comparing versus 2019? And any reason to believe that the $2.2 million in OpEx per day would be similar or different during that month versus the quarter as we build going forward?
Craig Billings:
The 120 -- sure. The 120% that I referenced was drop. So it has no -- so Wynn obviously has no impact. And OpEx, no expectation of any material changes in OpEx.
Stephen Grambling:
And then maybe as a follow-up on capital allocation. I think if we take the $2.2 billion run rate EBITDAR, less the concession spend, some other CapEx in Vegas in the dividend. It looks like there could still be some free cash flow left over. Is that the right way to think about it? And is there appetite in our ability to ramp capital return? Or do you generally think the pandemic has altered how you think about liquidity and leverage?
Craig Billings:
Julie, do you want to take the first portion of that, and I'll take the second?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
About the CapEx?
Craig Billings:
About the free cash flow.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. Yes, you're quite right. We're now with the $2.2 billion run rate and interest under control and all of that, we have sizable discretionary free cash flow. And so we're very focused on what we'll be doing in terms of delevering, returning to shareholders and of course, all of the exciting projects we have in front of us.
Craig Billings:
Yes. We're well capitalized at the moment. And I expect we will maintain some extra liquidity until we really see how a few things play out. First is New York. The second is the macro economy and the third is the yield curve. And we're always looking at the markets, the capital markets and thinking about when to refinance and whether to do it dollar-for-dollar or modestly delever. And when to return capital to shareholders, primarily by adding to the dividend. So we're in a bit of a wait-and-see approach at this moment. But if you think about it, we've got a great project in the UAE that is going to be a stunner. We've reinitiated our dividend, and our leverage is well under control. So we feel pretty good about where we are.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. Thanks so much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller comes from David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead, sir.
Q – David Katz:
Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I'm hoping for just a little more insight on margins in Macau. It's been one of the questions that -- trying to figure out what the new normal is or could be longer term as we think about the future, largely driven by revenue mix. I wonder what updated thoughts you may have versus what we would have had 90 days ago. Or more than that when I was over to visit, where it was the prevailing question. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure, David. Not really. I mean, I think a little bit like what happened in the U.S., we learned to run our business differently. So you mentioned primarily related to business mix. And certainly, that's a component of it. But we're running the business really, really well. The quality of service is as it should be and as it has always been, yet our OpEx has come down pretty meaningfully. And I think it's a testament to Linda and Frederic and Craig Fullalove, our CFO, over there and everything they've been able to do with the business. So really, what you're seeing is particularly at Palace, you can see it in the margin. What you're seeing is the impact of both sides of it with operating leverage coming through from business volumes and pretty robust expense control.
David Katz:
Right. And leaving it to us to decide on the order of magnitude, but it is fair to assume that there still should be some margin upside in Macau still to be captured as volumes return, correct?
Craig Billings:
Well, I haven't been in an Excel model in probably 15 years. But if I were doing one, I would probably hold margin at Palace relatively constant, just to be conservative. I mean, it's in the low-30s today, which is pretty darn good. And I would assume that Wynn Macau's margin increases as we aggressively fight for share.
David Katz:
Okay, I’ll take it. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Brandt Montour with Barclays. You may go ahead, sir.
Brandt Montour:
Hey, good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. So in Las Vegas, obviously, a great result there. REVPAR and ADR were flat to up small year-over-year. Just curious, how you're feeling about taking rate from these levels that you're at. Today, obviously, occupancy is pretty full. And looking out in the back half of the year, how do you feel about your comparisons -- sort of cadence, third quarter, fourth quarter, as well as the sort of financial impact or the hotel impact from F1 in the fourth quarter?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start, and then I'll ask Brian to comment. We have grown ADR pretty meaningfully, certainly since the property reopened from the closure in 2020, and I'm incredibly proud of our ability to do that. It really speaks to the product that we offer. And we've held those rates, and we've continued to have a rate premium to the rest of the town. Our ability to continue to take rate really depends on the macro. And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the best I can do is kind of give you a clear picture of what we're seeing right now, and it's good. But as I've said before, we have a 2023 playbook for really end 2024 for every scenario. So I'm not really going to forecast whether we think we can continue to take rate given how dependent it is on the overall economy, but we're feeling great about our business. Brian, do you want to talk about pacing?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Yes. I mean if you look at -- our forward-looking demand indicators are really remaining quite healthy. The room bookings we have are pacing up year-over-year. And as far as group pace, it continues to be strong. We've mentioned it on previous calls, Q3 and Q4 continue with the same pace that we've had thus far this year. So 2023 will wind up being a record group year. And '24 continues to pace ahead of that. So we keep looking for the signs, but lead volume is there, and our team does a great job of converting.
Brandt Montour:
Okay. That's super helpful. And then for Al Marjan, I appreciate the comments. Obviously, an exciting property. Can you give us an update on the casino license and sort of the pathway there and just an update, if you have everything you need for the sort of full plan that you've laid out in your initial projections?
Craig Billings:
Sure. We have everything we need to operate gaming in Al Marjan. And I think there's confusion here because there's a lack of understanding regarding individual Emirates versus the UAE as a whole. It's clearly a 10, as I think I've talked about before to a state and federal system. So while there may be conversation in other Emirates about legalization or legalization at the federal level, thereby covering all Emirates, I expect that we will have our license for Ras Al Khaimah actually imminently. But there should be no concern that there is a legalization process that needs to occur in order for a broader legalization process in order for gaming to occur in that property.
Brandt Montour:
Crystal clear. Thanks for the comments.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead, sir.
Daniel Politzer:
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. On prior calls, I think you mentioned that you could get back to a run rate EBITDA -- and I think it was about $26 billion, $27 billion range for GGR. I mean given what you're seeing in terms of mix and margin, is that still achievable? And going back to that July under 20% data point that you gave, is this something that maybe is achievable in the back end of this year?
Craig Billings:
I mean it depends on the market. Again, the model there is, as I said, pretty straightforward. Your share times the market, minus taxes, minus OpEx. So it really depends on which way the market goes. The market estimate where we think we would get back remains, as you described, probably closer to $27 billion versus $26 billion, based on the share we turned in this particular quarter, but generally, that holds true.
Daniel Politzer:
Got it. And then just for my follow-up. In terms of Wynn Macau, you mentioned you're going to be fighting for share there. Is that -- is it fair to say that margins maybe come down a little bit from these current levels? And I guess more broadly, as it relates to premium mass, are you seeing an uptick in promotions within that segment?
Craig Billings:
On the second question, no, the market has been pretty disciplined, and we're certainly pleased with that. On the first question, I don't think you should expect margin to go down at Wynn Macau. If the subtext of your question was will we need to get promotional in order to drive business to Wynn Macau, no, you should not assume that the margin will go down because we have tremendous operating leverage that comes with each 10 basis points of share at that property.
Daniel Politzer:
Got it. Thanks, that’s helpful.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Chad Beynon with Macquarie. You may go ahead, sir.
Chad Beynon:
Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to ask about the Interactive cash burn. You mentioned that that's come down again year-over-year and sequentially. Are you still on track for this to turn profitable in the fourth quarter? And any other kind of insights in terms of where this is going and how the flow-through should look if revenues rise from here during peak season? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. I don't think we ever said it would be breakeven in the fourth quarter. But what we are focused on is making sure that it goes down every quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Yes. Just -- I mean the sports betting's a tough business. It's about the game of commodity. They're difficult businesses, but we're very focused on managing this business. We've got a very long-term shareholder-friendly view on it. So that's our focus.
Chad Beynon:
Thank you. And then another one on Macau. You just mentioned the $27 billion GGR number. We did see some sequential growth in the last recent month. But I'm just wondering, as some of the farther out visitors come back to the market, I guess we'd kind of have to look through the database figuring out where all the premium players are in all of China. But does this matter as much for you guys? Or are there enough people in kind of Hong Kong and Guangdong for you to continue to put up numbers? Or do you really need some of those further out markets to open up from a visa and just a visitation standpoint? And are they driving higher spend per trip than what you're seeing in the property right now?
Craig Billings:
Every customer matters, Chad. It's -- of course, we want to see the underlying regions start to contribute to Macau. Are we dependent on it? No. But certainly, that's going to add incremental heft to the recovery, and that's going to add incremental heft to the total market, which again pushes us further back towards breakeven. Sorry, breakeven with 2019 or equal to 2019.
Chad Beynon:
Makes sense. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
And our next caller is John DeCree with CBRE. You may go ahead, sir.
John DeCree:
Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just a two-part question on Las Vegas. Craig, to the extent you can provide maybe a little bit more color around the visibility you have for the big events like F1 or Super Bowl. And then maybe the second part of that question is when you look at your forward demand indicators for bookings, is -- how much of that kind of year-on-year growth is tethered to those events? And excluding those events, are you still seeing good booking indicators for those maybe less peak periods or less kind of event-driven periods?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start, and then I'll ask Brian to comment. So Brian's prior comment on booking pace was independent of those events, to answer your -- to answer your last question. F1, Super Bowl, I mean, these are events that are made for us, right? Because we end up picking up the top end of the patrons and customers that come to town for those events. And so we're really excited about it, about where we are and where we sit. Brian, do you want to provide some more color?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Yes, I think both of these events, specifically F1 and then Super Bowl, definitely played to the strengths of our brand. It's a perfect match. We are getting significant premiums for those two events themselves. And I think we're pacing quite nicely. I know some of our competitors have given more specific data, but I can tell you we're going to do just fine here.
John DeCree:
Very good. Thanks for the color guys. Appreciate it.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thanks, John. And operator, the next question will be our last.
Operator:
Thank you. And our final question comes from Robin Farley with UBS. You may go ahead.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thank you for letting me sneak in here at the end. Can you clarify just to sort of make it comparable to previous periods, what the VIP hold added to make EBITDA in Macau?
Craig Billings:
Julie? Holding back to VIP.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Holding back to VIP. I mean as we said on the call, we held a little bit high on VIP, but that was more than offset by lower mass hold. So we're not actually getting into breaking it out.
Craig Billings:
Okay. And then...
Craig Billings:
It was about $20 million. So we have $20 million of high hold on VIP. This is what I was alluding to earlier. We need to -- we're going to start normalizing for mass hold, because so much of our business now is mass. But it's about $20 million in Macau, and low mass hold more than offset that, as Julie said.
Robin Farley:
Okay. Great. And I appreciate you breaking that out just to make it kind of comparable to previous quarters. So thank you. And then -- and I'm sorry if I missed your comment on this, but have you talked about how much of the margin do you think you can hold on to in Vegas? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Well, in the midst of -- in the midst of the dark days of COVID, we put out a permanent cost savings figure, and we've held to that. We certainly, again, learned to run our business differently during COVID. And what I would say is that our business volumes over the course of the past 1.5 years have been absolutely off the charts, and we've held the line and still held true to the brand. So the business kind of is the business now. To the extent that there is a macro -- any macro-driven change to our business volumes or to our ADRs, et cetera, we have a playbook for that, because we just lived it as we went through COVID, and we'll be ready. Again, we're not seeing that. But we're certainly ready for every scenario.
Robin Farley:
Okay. Alright, great. Thank you very much.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Well, thank you, operator. With that, that concludes the Q2 earnings call. Thanks, everybody, for your attention. We look forward to talking to you again soon.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Cameron -- I'm sorry, to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that, we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. Before we get into the specifics of the quarter, I'm pleased to say that after three years of suspension, today, we announced that we are resuming payment of a quarterly dividend, initially $0.25 per share. We have a number of growth projects in flight that require capital and will ultimately add meaningful EBITDA to our business. But with Macau returning to profitability and North America continuing to perform well above historical levels, we have sufficient financial flexibility to also return capital to shareholders. I also want to express appreciation to our 27,000-plus team, who were once again recently recognized by Forbes Travel Guide with 24 Five Star Awards, the most of any independent hotel company in the world. Thank you for all that you do. Turning to Las Vegas. I have to tell you, it's a fascinating time in our business. Despite the confluence of high inflation, high interest rates, bank failures and increasingly difficult year-over-year comps, Wynn Las Vegas delivered an all-time record in Q1 with $232 million of adjusted property EBITDA, supported by a consumer that continues to feel flush. We also subsequently delivered the best April in the history of the property. We continue to invest heavily in people, programming and the building to further distance ourselves as the clear leader in luxury in Vegas. Looking ahead, we currently have a strong pipeline of forward group demand, continued rooms pricing power, healthy drop in handle and a robust programming calendar, particularly in the back half of the year. Yet I continue to watch the macro factors that I mentioned earlier, and I will note that, with Q2 2023, we will begin comping against some very strong prior year quarters. Lastly, just as I have the past several quarters, I will continue to tell you exactly what we're seeing. And right now, things feel good around here. Turning to Boston. Like Vegas, Encore had a strong quarter, generating $63 million of EBITDAR. We saw strength across the casino in terms of table drop, slot handle and overall GGR. On the non-gaming side, we delivered strong hotel revenue driven by both ADR and occupancy. The strength has continued into Q2 with EBITDA per day in April largely consistent with trends we have experienced over the past few quarters. We also launched retail sports betting at Encore Boston Harbor in Q1, which helped drive a 20% increase in sign-ups to our Wynn Rewards loyalty program year-to-date. I expect the book will continue to be a significant driver for new customer acquisition over time. On the development front in Boston, we finalized the interiors and began to buy out structural materials for our upcoming projects across the street from the property that will add incremental parking, food and beverage and entertainment amenities. Turning to Macau. We generated $156 million of EBITDA in the quarter with lower-than-normal VIP hold negatively impacting EBITDA by about $10 million. In the casino, mass table drop reached 82% of Q1 2019 levels, and our VIP hold normalized market share was over 14% during the quarter despite unusually low hold in our mass business at Wynn Macau and the fact that significant portions of Wynn Macau's East casino were closed for renovation during the quarter. Encouragingly, that market share was consistent with full year 2019 levels. On the non-gaming side, our retail business was incredibly strong with tenant retail sales increasing 60% compared to the first quarter of 2019, once again highlighting the strength of our premium consumer. Looking forward, as you have seen, market-wide GGR momentum in Macau has been very impressive, building through the first quarter and accelerating into April. Who would have thought even six months ago that the market would be run rating north of $22 billion of annual GGR. In April, our mass drop per day increased versus Q1, our direct VIP turnover per day increased meaningfully versus Q1, and occupancy and retail sales were very healthy. More recently, the May Golden Week holiday period was particularly strong, outperforming Golden Week 2019 in several key areas. In the casino, our overall mass table drop during the holiday period was nearly 10% above 2019 Golden Week levels, and our direct VIP turnover was more than double 2019 levels. Outside of gaming, our tenant retail sales increased 36% compared to Golden Week 2019, and our hotel occupancy was 95%. Performance during and after the quarter was skewed towards Wynn Palace, driven both by the mix of customers that have returned to Macau in the initial reopening wave and the renovation-related closures at Wynn Macau that I mentioned earlier. We are making a number of changes and improvements to Wynn Macau that I expect will drive longer-term market share gain. In the meantime, I expect that Wynn Palace will continue to pace ahead of Wynn Macau in the recovery. On the development front in Macau, we are deep into design and planning for our concession related CapEx commitments, which we believe will help support Macau's long-term diversification goals and be additive to our business over the coming years. We look forward to telling you more in due course. Lastly, I hope that you were all able to review the information we provided a couple of weeks ago on Wynn Al Marjan Island, our planned integrated resort in the UAE. If you haven't listened to the presentation or read through the slide deck, you can find both on our IR website. I'm incredibly proud of the program and design elements we have put together thus far. And as we noted in the presentation, we think the resort will generate between $450 million and $600 million of steady-state EBITDA. The combination of our 40% equity ownership in the project along with our management and license fees will drive a very healthy ROI for Wynn Resorts shareholders. With that, I'll now turn it back to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated an all-time record of $231.6 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $586.8 million of operating revenue during the quarter. Higher-than-normal hold positively impacted EBITDA by around $4 million in Q1. Our hotel occupancy was 88.8% in the quarter, up 1,190 basis points year-over-year and up 620 basis points versus Q1 2019. Importantly, we've stayed true to our luxury brand and continue to compete on quality of product and service experience with our overall ADR reaching a record $493 during Q1 2023, up 14.1% versus Q1 2022 and 46% above Q1 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across food and beverage, entertainment and retail, which were up nicely year-over-year and also well above pre-pandemic levels. In the casino, our Q1 2023 slot handle increased 33.5% year-over-year and with 99% of our Q1 2019 level. Similarly, our table drop was up 9.6% year-over-year and was 49% of our Q1 2019 levels. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 39.5% in the quarter. On a hold-normalized basis, our EBITDA margin was up approximately 300 basis points year-over-year at approximately 1,400 basis points compared to Q1 2019. OpEx excluding gaming tax per day was $3.7 million in Q1 2023, which was flat sequentially and up 20% compared to Q1 2019 levels, but well below the 46% increase in operating revenues. Turning to Boston. We generated adjusted property EBITDA of $63.4 million with EBITDA margin of 29.3%. We saw broad-based strength across casino and non-gaming during the quarter. In the casino, we generated $191 million of GGR, a property record with strength in both tables and slots. Our non-gaming revenue grew 21% year-over-year to $50.9 million with particular strength in hotel and food and beverage. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1.17 million in Q1 2023. This is up relative to Q1 2022 on increased business volumes and flat sequentially. As we've discussed on prior calls, the year-over-year EBITDA and OpEx comps were impacted by contractual labor agreements, which added around $45,000 per day to our OpEx base beginning late in Q2 2022. We're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow the top line over time. Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $155.8 million in the quarter on $600.1 million of operating revenues. Lower-than-normal VIP hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $10 million in Q1. As Craig noted, we were encouraged by the meaningful uptick in visitation and demand we experienced during the quarter with particular strength in mass casino and luxury retail sales. Our OpEx excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.3 million per day in Q1, a decrease compared to $3.2 million in Q1 2019 and up modestly from Q4 despite meaningful sequential increase in business volumes. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs, and we're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. In terms of CapEx, we're currently advancing through the design and planning stages on our concession commitments. And as we noted last quarter, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential CapEx in the very near term. As such, for 2023, we continue to expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $50 million to $220 million. Turning to Wynn Interactive. Our EBITDA burn rate decreased both sequentially and year-over-year to $21.1 million in Q1 2023. Our team continues to stay disciplined on cost, while driving improved marketing efficiencies. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $4.7 billion as of March 31. This was comprised of $1.6 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $3.1 billion in the US. Importantly, the combination of very strong performance in Las Vegas and Boston with the properties generating over $1.1 billion of adjusted property EBITDA in the 12 months through March 31, together with our robust liquidity, creates a very healthy leverage profile in the US. As Craig noted, with our properties performing well in each of our markets and our robust liquidity, we're pleased to announce that the Board approved the resumption of our quarterly dividend with a cash dividend of $0.25 per share payable on June 6, 2023, to stockholders of record as of May 23, 2023, highlighting our commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $124 million primarily related to the spa and villa renovations and F&B enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas and normal course maintenance across the business. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead sir.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Craig, as you talked about some of the work you guys are doing on the peninsula at that asset, how much of the, I guess, trailings of that asset relative to Cotai is related to the work versus how much of the overall recovery that you've experienced or the market has experienced in Cotai? How much does the peninsula lag that? And what do you think -- or what do you think it takes to narrow that gap in the resumption of attempting to attain 2019 levels in both geographies?
Craig Billings:
Sure. No problem. Carlo, thanks for the question. So first, it's important to note, we don't normalize for mass hold. And so when we talk about normalized numbers, they don't include any unusually low hold in that. And we did hold low in mass at Wynn Macau in the quarter. But certainly, and I called it out for a reason, Wynn Palace is leading the charge amongst our two properties as the market comes back. There's really a few factors at play. I think everybody who follows Macau closely knows that GGR and visitation were somewhat disconnected in the initial wave in that you had a lot of dedicated players come back. A lot of those players -- well all -- most of those players are rated players. And they weren't coming with tour groups. They were coming as individual visitors and they disproportionately, at least within our business, ended up at Wynn Palace on Cotai when Macau historically has been more exposed to our group business, general unrated business, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm not surprised from that perspective that Wynn Palace led Wynn Macau. That's the first point. The second point is that there are a number of changes that we're making to Wynn Macau. The property needs to be refreshed, and we're making those changes now. We did start those in Q1, including some pretty significant refreshment of the East, East casino there, which disrupted significant numbers of pits concurrently. They were effectively closed during the quarter. So that also had an impact. So I think as the market continues to recover, as more unrated play comes back to the market, as more tour groups come back to the market, then we'll get the natural benefit downtown. And then, of course, we're trying to make the property the best that it can be to take as much market share as we possibly can. But in the interim, as I said, I would expect Palace to lead Wynn Macau.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thank you. That's helpful. And then as a follow-up, obviously, there's plenty of development activity. There's obviously some spend on Cotai, and your contributions down the road for the UAE development. What was the primary thought process and driving factors and the decision to reinstitute the dividend?
Craig Billings:
Well – thanks, Carlo. Yes, the dividend, we -- as we always talk about with our investors, the dividend is the cornerstone of our capital return strategy. And the US business is getting plenty of cash flow Macau is coming back quickly and so now we are doing exactly what you just alluded to. We're balancing these high-ROI development projects in Boston and the UAE. We're preserving a bit of capital related to New York City to the extent that, that advances. And on the other side, our desire to re-implement that dividend and return capital. So we felt like this initial dividend was a great place to start. And from there, stay tuned. We'll see how we grow it over time.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you, Craig.
Craig Billings:
Thanks.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Craig, it looks like EBITDA margins on net revenues in Macau in March were about 30%. I just want to make sure my math is right on that. And then when I just look at overall OpEx growth versus net or gross giving or gross revenue growth, it looks like OpEx growth is approximately half of revenue growth. Do you think that can continue, or do you think OpEx growth is lagging because of labor constraints and maybe other nuanced things in the Macau marketplace?
Craig Billings:
Well, thanks, Joe. The market is structurally different than it was in 2019 and before for a few reasons. I think the change in the junket environment and the shift to mass is well understood. On the OpEx side, the concessionaires were encouraged to and generally did maintain labor throughout the course of the shutdown. There are components of the labor pool where I think all of us were able to -- particularly with respect to some foreign labor, where we were able to trim. And so I think I've heard comments from some of our competitors that they were bringing labor back on, particularly on the housekeeping side, et cetera, et cetera. I think that's generally true for us. We have been operating at full capacity since the day the market reopened. We're probably light in a couple of labor categories, not high-dollar labor categories. So I don't think we're in a situation where certainly our fixed costs are going to meaningfully accelerate as the market accelerates. And I would expect some pretty healthy operating leverage coming out of the business over the course of the next couple of years. If you look at where Palace printed this quarter, you can look at that relative to 2019, and you can see that there was distinct margin improvement. Our service levels certainly haven't degraded versus 2019. So I'm pretty bullish.
Joe Greff:
Great. And I was hoping you can maybe put a little bit more meat on the bones with respect to your comments about April and Macau in terms of an EBITDA run rate. I don't know if you want to look at it as a percentage growth rate in relation to March or for the full quarter, but any additional details would be appreciated.
Craig Billings:
Well, I would just say our average EBITDA per day in April was up over our average EBITDA per day in Q1. You saw what the market did. The market grew quite healthy from both February to March and then March to April. And we had 14% share in the first quarter. So I think you can probably do the math from there.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thanks so much guys.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Just was hoping we could get a little bit more color on the recovery you're seeing maybe in the VIP segment. So obviously, I think you called out direct being, I think, double over the Golden Week holiday. But maybe just in general, how you're serving that higher-end customer where you see them playing on the floor? Just kind of behaviorally, how has the market kind of adapted and adjusted to that and how your direct program has evolved as well?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I think, it's Shaun, I think it's honestly a little bit too early to forecast the overall trajectory of VIP, both direct and junket. But certainly, we were pleased with turnover in both the quarter and subsequent to, including Golden Week. I think it's a testament to how much Macau in general and we, in particular, have to offer those customers, including those from broader Asia. So we're watching the situation closely. Stay tuned. I don't think there's been a lot of, frankly, changes in terms of how we execute in direct. We certainly have developed some incremental relationships, player referral relationships outside of the traditional markets, and that's part of the broader mandate to improve international visitation to Macau. But the way that we underwrite credit, the way we think about extending credit, none of that has changed. So we'll see how it develops over the course of the next couple of quarters. But overall, I think we've been pleasantly surprised.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you for that. And then as my follow-up, could you just -- going back to the renovations for a second on the Peninsula, your expectations for when those should conclude or if they don't conclude entirely sort of become materially less of a headwind from here, how long that program is expected to last?
Craig Billings:
The material impact will subside this quarter. So we had the portions of the main floor on the east side closed at various points throughout Q1. That's complete. Now we're doing some work in some of our adjacent salons, and that will complete this quarter. There's a number of other things that will have a longer tail, but it shouldn't impact revenue the same way.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead, sir.
Dan Politzer:
Hey, good afternoon everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to actually pivot to Wynn on margin. Can you maybe talk about how we should think about this property evolving over time in terms of the timing of your capital commitment, maybe the financing breakdown versus the equity contributions versus debt, gaming versus non-gaming? Just any additional color. And I appreciate that the presentation was pretty thorough. But just as we think about this going forward and over the next few years, that would be helpful. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Yeah, sure. Think about it as a $4 billion project for now. Think about it as 50% equity, 50% construction-related financing with the exact percentage TBD. Think about the equity going in pro rata with the construction cost, that's always a debate you have with the financing sources. So we'll see how that goes, but that's the way that I would model it for now. I've talked a bit about this on prior calls. The market in Dubai from a non-gaming perspective is incredibly healthy. If you look at ADRs, if you look at spend on food and beverage, if you look at spend on luxury retail, it's tremendous. And so we think that this -- the more time we spend there, we think that this business is much more akin to our Las Vegas business than it is, say, Macau or Boston, which are primarily gaming-centric markets. So we think that this will be a healthy balance of gaming, non-gaming and that that will allow us to provide a very full and high-quality experience and generate very healthy returns.
Dan Politzer:
Got it. And then just in terms of Macau, I know there was a couple of moving pieces in the quarter. Is there any way to maybe quantify -- and I recognize that this is not something you would typically adjust for, but that mass hold in the quarter in terms of the impact to EBITDA, as well as that construction disruption and just as we think about in a normalized scenario going forward, that would be helpful.
Craig Billings:
Yeah. So there's probably 500 basis points of low mass hold, plus or minus. You have the statistics in the press release, you have drops, so you can apply that to it. And the construction disruption, we have not quantified.
Dan Politzer:
Got it. Thanks.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead sir. David, your line is open. Possibly your mute is on. We'll go to the next caller. Robin Farley, you may go ahead with UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks. I just wanted to circle back to your comments about VIP hold, and the fact that it was at two times the level of 2019 your direct business for Golden Week. If we think about your direct VIP business in 2019 being maybe 15% of total VIP, is it reasonable to think you could get back to 30% of previous VIP levels or even higher since this is really just out of the box here under the new regulations?
Craig Billings:
Well, thanks, Robin. I think what's unknown at this point is the denominator in your equation. So we don't know what total VIP will be yet, right? We need to really see how that develops over the course of the next couple of quarters. There's really no legal or structural impediments to us returning to our prior direct VIP business or, frankly, exceeding it. It's unaffected by -- generally unaffected by the legal changes that happened. So I think that we were…
Robin Farley:
I mean, that's what I was suggesting. In other words, if you were at two times the level already for Golden Week that you could -- in other words, is there a reason that wouldn't be a sustainable rate of recovery of your previous what was direct, that you'd be able to recapture some of what have been junket business at that same level or even higher?
Craig Billings:
No. There's no reason that we couldn't do that, other than credit underwriting. What we won't do is underwrite players that we're not comfortable with from an asset perspective. So with that caveat, no, there's nothing that could stop that.
Robin Farley:
Okay. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
We will take one last question operator.
Operator:
Thank you. John DeCree with CBRE. You may go ahead.
John DeCree:
Hi. Good afternoon. Everyone thank you taking my question. Maybe bring the conversation back home for one in Las Vegas, obviously, a fantastic quarter for you guys in the market as a whole. And two kind of customer segments that we're paying attention to is the international customer and convention recovery. Presumably, we've seen both of those kind of accelerate in 1Q. So curious to get your thoughts on where the recovery of those two segments are for Wynn specifically and how much room you see in front for those kind of two customer segments relative to 2019?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll cover international and then I'll ask Brian to talk about the group and convention pacing. On the international side, you're right, the market has not gotten back to its full pre-COVID levels. It's really been a geography-by-geography question. LatAm started to return early. Europe has started to come back. And so there are certainly opportunities in international. I do want to -- I would specifically call out China and Mainland Chinese guests where we don't know yet because it's very, very early there. And so we'll see how that plays out. But international is starting to trickle back. And I think that, that will be a tailwind as we move through 2023 with the caveat that I mentioned with respect to seeing how China plays out. Brian, do you want to comment on our group and convention pace?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Thanks, Craig. John, yeah, I would say that group is back beyond 2019 levels at this point. When you look to Q1 and what we did, the team did an amazing job. We had one of our best -- well, we had the best convention group revenue we've ever had. We had all the stars line up, CES, Homebuilders, CONEXPO. It was just a phenomenal quarter, which then helped drive the record quarter. If you look forward, I think the group business is solid. Our team has done a great job. We're pacing towards record group room nights for this year with very strong ADRs. We built a solid base that will allow us to yield manage our rooms in the other segments as we move forward. And right now, 2024, knock on wood, 2024 is actually pacing ahead of what we believe will be a record 2023. So yes, we're back to beyond 2019 levels, and we see this right now continuing. We're looking for the signs. Don't see any signs of softening yet, but we're going to be cautious and reactive we have to. But right now, it looks pretty good.
Craig Billings:
And we have -- again, as Brian said, it's proven to be interesting. I think everybody, at least that we talk to on the sell side and the buy side, keeps waiting for a shoe to drop in Vegas. And it hasn't to date. Now, we have a 2023 playbook, 2024 playbook for every possible scenario because we learned how to operate our business incredibly efficiently as we went through all the various iterations of COVID. So we feel great about where we are. We're ready for anything, and we'll see how we go.
John DeCree:
Thanks. That's really helpful. Maybe as a follow-up, one more on Macau. Craig, could you kind of give us your insights on the competitive landscape, I guess, particularly on the direct VIP and premium mass? It seems like there's been plenty to go around so far in early recovery, but curious to get your updated thoughts on player reinvestment and how competitive or promotional the market has been, if at all.
Craig Billings:
Sure. It's early, right? And a wise person once told me that half of great strategic thinking is ignoring noise, and there is a tremendous amount of noise in the market in Q1. We had competitors with rooms out of commission. We had whole volatility because in the early portion of the quarter when you have lower volumes, you inherently have whole volatility. You have a lot of things. You have the market compounding month-over-month and growing month-over-month and creates a lot of noise. But in general, I would say that the market is coming back much more quickly than anybody would have thought of certainly six, nine months ago. It's incredibly good to see. The margin profile of the businesses across Macao looks pretty strong, which would indicate to me that reinvestment rates are relatively disciplined, which is good. And I think that overall, the behavior in the market is quite rational. So, I think the next couple of months, the next quarter, quarter and a half, I think will be telling to see what the pace and size of the recovery is. If you -- I mean you can imagine that we're run rating $22 billion of GGR right now. For us, if you kind of roll the business forward and do your modeling, what you'll find is that at around $26.5 billion of GGR, our combined properties start to produce the EBITDA -- something close to the EBITDA that they produced in 2019, which is pretty unbelievable. And so I think as you see the market continue to gain momentum, and we've all -- all of us in that market have been around the back many, many times, we've been through ups, downs and everything else, I think you'll see the concessionaires behave relatively rationally. And I think it's good for the market. It's good for us. It's good for them.
John Decree:
Yes. That sounds very encouraging, Craig. Thanks so much and thanks everyone. Congratulations on a great quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you. Well, with that, we'll close the call. Thank you for your interest in Wynn Resorts and we look forward to sharing more information with you next quarter.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings, Brian Gullbrants, and Steve Whiteman [ph] in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us. As we prepared for this call, I looked at an old analyst note that was published after our Q4 2019 earnings. The expectation for 2022 EBITDA Wynn Las Vegas in that note was $482 million. Here we are three years in the global pandemic later and Wynn Las Vegas just printed $816 million of normalized adjusted property EBITDA, $816 million. I'm confident that this is an all-time record for a stand-alone Las Vegas strip property. And mind you, we did not deliver this result by nickel and diming on service standards and reducing staff to drive operating leverage. The team did it by focusing on what we do best. Great products, great service, great programming, and it showed in our market share and pricing power. The Wynn Las Vegas team absolutely crushed it in 2022. Our business in Vegas is stronger and more relevant than it has ever been. I'll talk more about the fourth quarter in Vegas in our outlook in a moment. Turning to several other significant events, I'd like to touch on our concession renewal and the reopening of Macau. I was in Macau for nearly three weeks in December. And after going through the then required quarantine, I was fortunate to attend the signing ceremony for our new concession. I'm proud of the plan that we put forward as part of the concession renewal and believe that the CapEx and programming we proposed will be additive to our business there over the coming years. I would like to thank the government of Macau for their faith in us. And importantly, I would like to thank the Wynn Macau team for their dedication to our business over the past three very difficult years. Fortunately, recent actions by both Macau and Mainland authorities to reopen the market give us great confidence that the difficulties are behind us and the near-term future there much brighter. Over the past several weeks, we've welcomed back an increasing number of guests as the region has reopened to travel and tourism in a meaningful way. With our premium product and service levels, we are well positioned to lead the post-COVID recovery in Macau, and our strengths were evident during the recent Chinese New Year holiday period. In the casino, mass table drop reached 95% of 2019 Chinese New Year levels with strong play across the spectrum from premium mass to core mass. In direct VIP, turnover was 40% above pre-COVID Chinese New Year levels. And importantly, we estimate that our hold-normalized GGR market share during the month of January was consistent with 2019 levels despite all the changes in the junket environment, define the expectations of those who continue to incorrectly believe that we are solely a VIP focused organization. On the non-gaming side, hotel occupancy was 96%, and our tenant retail sales increased 34% compared to Chinese New Year 2019. Overall, during the Chinese New Year period, we delivered our strongest EBITDA performance since the onset of the pandemic, approximately $4 million of normalized EBITDA per day. Turning back to Las Vegas. The team at Wynn Las Vegas turned in a fourth quarter record with $219 million of EBITDA. We saw broad-based strength across casino, hotel, F&B, entertainment and retail, all well above Q4 2021 levels, despite the difficult year-over-year comps. Our investment in people, facilities and programming and our team's deep sense of personal ownership of our business continue to drive growth. We continue to monitor economic trends and forward bookings at Wynn Las Vegas. We're encouraged that the strength we have experienced over the past several quarters has continued into Q1. Similarly, our forward-looking indicators also remain quite strong despite well-known macro concerns as room bookings are pacing at/or above pre-COVID-19 levels on substantially higher ADRs. Turning to Boston. Like Vegas, Encore had a strong quarter, generating $63 million of EBITDAR. We saw strength across the casino with record gross gaming revenue and on the non-gaming side with strong hotel revenue, driven by both ADR and occupancy. The strength has continued into the first quarter with EBITDA per day in January, largely consistent with trends we have experienced over the past few quarters. We were also pleased to launch retail sports betting at Encore Boston Harbor last week, averaging a little over 0.5 million a day in handle over the first six days, which is about 80% of the average daily handle at Wynn Las Vegas. During those six days, we also signed up about 30% more Wynn Rewards members than normal. We continue to expect the book to be a significant driver for new customer acquisition over time. We also continue to advance our plans for our upcoming development project across the street from the property that will include incremental parking, food and beverage and entertainment amenities. At Wynn Interactive, our overall EBITDA burn rate in the quarter ticked up sequentially to $28 million due to a well-publicized World Series bet that went against us. Adjusted for that single bet, burn was roughly flat. Our team continues to stay disciplined on cost while driving improved marketing efficiency. We're looking forward to the potential for a significant catalyst for WynnBET in Massachusetts with the combination of our recently launched retail book and the expected upcoming launch of online sports betting. Lastly, we are quickly advancing our planning for Wynn Al Marjan Island, our integrated resort in the UAE. We're in the late stages of programming for the resort, and I expect we will be driving piles for the foundation of the property by the middle of the year. I also expect we will share renderings, programming and plans publicly over the next few months. The more time we spend in that market, the more confident we are in the project. With that, I will now turn it over to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter. Julie?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Las Vegas, we generated a fourth quarter record of $219.3 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $585.5 million of operating revenue during the quarter, lower-than-normal hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $10.5 million in Q4. Our hotel occupancy was 89.9% in the quarter, up 350 basis points year-over-year and up 50 basis points versus Q4 2019. Importantly, we've stayed true to our luxury brand and continued to compete on quality of product and service experience with our overall ADR reaching a record $492 during Q4 2022, up 11.8% versus Q4 2021 and 53% above Q4 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across F&B, entertainment and retail, which were up nicely year-over-year and also well above pre-pandemic levels. In the casino, our Q4 2022 slot handle increased 20.9% year-over-year and was 69% above Q4 2019 levels. Similarly, our table drop was up 1.1% year-over-year and was 43% above Q4 2019 levels, despite still suppressed international play during the quarter due to COVID-related travel challenges. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 37.4% in the quarter. On a hold-normalized basis, our EBITDA margin was up approximately 1,300 basis points compared to Q4 2019. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day was $3.8 million in Q4 2022, up 25% compared to Q4 2019 levels but well below the 59% increase in operating revenue. In Boston, before getting into the details, I'd like to point out that following the closing of the sale leaseback transaction on December 1, we're now reporting adjusted property EBITDAR for this business. In Q4 2022, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $63.3 million with EBITDA margin of 29%. We saw broad-based strength across casino and nongaming during the quarter. In the casino, we generated $190 million of GGR, a property record with strength in both tables and slots. Our nongaming revenue grew 13% year-over-year to a record $56.8 million with particular strength in the hotels, driven by 93.9% occupancy and a $404 ADR. We've stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1.17 million in Q4 2022. This was a decrease of over 8% compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019 and up modestly relative to Q3 2022. As we've discussed on prior calls, the year-over-year EBITDA and OpEx comps were impacted by a combination of contractual labor agreements, which added around $45,000 per day to our OpEx base, beginning late in Q2 2022, along with a nonrecurring benefit of $2 million in Q4 last year. We're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow the top line over time. Our Macau operations delivered an EBITDA loss of $59.1 million in the quarter on $190.3 million of operating revenues. Lower than normal hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $25 million in Q4. While the COVID situation in the region was challenging during Q4, as Craig noted, we were encouraged by the meaningful uptick in visitation and demand we experienced during the recent Chinese holiday period. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax, was approximately $2 million per day in Q4, a decrease compared to $2.4 million in Q4 2021. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs in a difficult operating environment. Longer term, we are well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. In terms of the new concession, we approached the tender process very prudently, carefully balancing our commitments to the government with our responsibilities to our shareholders and, of course, our liquidity position. We're currently advancing through the design and planning stages, but these projects require a number of government approvals creating a wide range of potential CapEx in the very near term. As such, for 2023, we expect CapEx related to our concession commitments to range between $50 million to $220 million. Our future non-gaming investments, including new center set to be home of a unique spectacle show and innovative food halls and an events and entertainment center. As Craig noted, we believe these investments play into our strength as we have a demonstrated track record of introducing innovative non-gaming investments that drive increased tourism and ultimately, strong shareholder returns. Turning to Wynn Interactive. Our EBITDA burn rate increased sequentially to $28.3 million in Q4 2022. However, adjusting for the well-publicized World Series bet that Craig mentioned, it was roughly flat with our Q3 2022 burn rate of $17.7 million. The team continues to control costs while driving improved marketing efficiencies. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $4.5 billion as of December 31. This was comprised of $952 million of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $3.5 billion in the U.S. These numbers exclude the undrawn $500 million intercompany revolving credit facility Wynn Resorts entered into with Wynn Macau. We were pleased to close the sale leaseback transaction for the real estate of Encore Boston Harbor on December 1 with gross proceeds of $1.7 billion, further bolstering our already strong liquidity position. Importantly, the combination of very strong performance in Las Vegas and Boston, with the properties generating $1.04 billion of adjusted property EBITDA during 2022 together with our robust liquidity, creates a very healthy leverage profile in the U.S. With our properties performing well in each of our markets and our robust liquidity, I'd like to note our intention to repay our upcoming May 2023, Wynn Las Vegas bond maturity with cash from the balance sheet, reducing our domestic gross leverage by $500 million. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $27 million, primarily related to normal course maintenance. With that, we'll now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Craig, Julie, whoever wants to kind of take this one. Craig, I know you spoke a little bit about kind of what you guys saw in Macau during Chinese New Year. To the extent you're willing to kind of comment on what you've seen in the aftermath and kind of the weeks following the holiday, that would be great.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Thanks, Carlo. It's been pretty good, actually. Frederic, do you want to take -- do you want to provide a little more color on that?
Frederic Luvisutto:
Sure, Craig. Thank you, Carlo. We have seen typically after post Chinese New Year in the past, the period does see a slowdown. But we have been very encouraged to see the business remaining very, very strong with mass gaming, direct VIP and retail sales better than previously similar period in the past. So, we have seen the resilience of the business post Chinese New Year, I'm very encouraged with that.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you. That's helpful. And then, Craig, you talked a little bit about, obviously, what you saw on the VIP side. I believe you said direct VIP was 40% above or so. That was 2019 Chinese New Year levels. Can you comment at all as to what the experience has been with whatever junket VIP there is in the market today?
Craig Billings:
Yes. There was some junket activity over the course of Chinese New Year. Obviously, the situation has changed a lot from the pre-COVID period. I think it's actually a little bit too early to call out what role the gaming promoters and the junkets will play in the market, but there certainly was some activity.
Operator:
Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Sort of following on Carlo's question, on what you saw in Chinese New Years in the period. Since then, can you talk about the migration of the junket VIP business into the direct and into the premium mass component of your mass business? How do you -- so do you think -- what otherwise would have been the junket, what percentage of that do you think is migrating versus maybe not coming back quite yet?
Craig Billings:
I think it's -- Joe, I think it's way too early to be talking about percentages given the market really just fully reopened on January 8th, so really a month now. We certainly are seeing former junket customers migrate into both, premium mass and into direct. Remember, direct is tricky because there you're talking about credit extension. And so you have to be quite prudent in how you manage the direct business. But unfortunately, it's just a little too early. What I would say is volumes came back, volumes came back strong. The narrative that we're VIP focused, I think, proves to be pretty false. We competed very strongly during the Chinese New Year period, and we're incredibly proud of the results that we had.
Joe Greff:
And when you look back in 2019, we always thought that the direct VIP component was something around 10% to 20% of the total VIP turnovers. Are we fair in picking that? Can you remind us of that?
Craig Billings:
You are. You are.
Joe Greff:
Okay. That’s all for me. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Just was hoping to get a little bit more color on maybe the cost and margin picture as things start to rebound in Macau. Julie, I think in the prepared remarks, you mentioned you were down around $2 million a day in the fourth quarter in Macau, if I called it correctly, down from $2.4 million back in 2019. Just as you're sort of re-ramping, I mean, I think we all really underappreciated the amount of operating leverage that was going to happen in certain markets in the United States, and kind of trying to put some of the tea leaves together around how this may play out for Macau. So just any kind of thoughts on expenses and margins as the recovery begins here?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. Yes, you're correct, Shaun. We did talk to our OpEx per day in Q4 with $2 million, which was down from $2.4 million the year prior. We worked really hard last year to preserve cash and to manage OpEx down while we were closed. So obviously, that's not representative of how things will be necessarily moving forward. As you know, we're fully open now and staffing full time in different F&B outlets and so on. So, where that shakes out in terms of margin, it's really going to depend on the mix of business that comes back in that market. It's pretty much the same answer we give when we're asked about margin in Vegas. It's very much mix dependent. And we don't manage our business on margin. That's really the outcome. We manage to our brand, and we staff accordingly. And we're very tight in terms of staffing. We're very focused on doing that appropriately, and we're very focused on -- but we're very, very focused on our service delivery centers as well.
Craig Billings:
And I would just add, it's primarily a mass mix now. So, you're going to have -- that's inherently higher margin. And a portion of the cost savings that we implemented during the COVID period, which, thank God is long behind us, we will maintain. So, the margin profile should be healthy. So again, it's -- we're really talking about a couple of weeks here. So, it's a little bit early to start forecasting specific margins.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Understood. And then maybe just the follow-up. Another thing that kind of came up in the prepared remarks was the CapEx outlook in Macau, and I think you gave a pretty wide range. Can you just kind of talk about what would sort of dictate maybe the high versus the low? What are some of the different either projects that could get underway or things that could impact the outcome of the range that you discussed?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. So, I think just taking a step back, if you think about our total commitment when we put through our concession proposal, we've committed to $2.2 billion over 10 years. And that's -- obviously, that's a mix of CapEx and OpEx. But we're very focused on getting the CapEx done as quickly as possible so that we can start to drive strong returns from it. The limiting factor is really the approval that we need locally to break ground and build anything. So, it's really not in our hands. That's why we've given such a wide range because from our perspective, we're pacing towards getting through our D&D and designing everything, but we have to go through government approvals for anything that's construction related. So, the range we gave was $50 million to $220 million.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next caller is David Katz with Jefferies.
Cassandra Lee:
Hi. This is Cassandra on behalf of David. You mentioned that digital was nearly broke even in the fourth quarter, excluding the -- resorts. Can you discuss the upcoming launches and whether we should expect the business to inflect to profit this year?
Craig Billings:
Sure. The upcoming -- the most significant upcoming launch is Massachusetts, where obviously, we have Encore Boston Harbor, and I would hope and expect that we will have a reasonable market share because of that -- the presence of that property as our competitors have in other markets. We are driving the business as hard as we can while being prudent. I would expect some point of inflection in late 2023, depending upon how much user -- money good user acquisition we do in Massachusetts, but we have the burn at this point, really, really well under control. And again, as we talked about before, the long-term strategy is really focused on Massachusetts and positioning ourselves for iGaming, which would make the business accretive to our land-based resorts.
Cassandra Lee:
Great. If I may follow up. Can you talk about your upcoming maturity? And any thoughts about tapping to the capital market now since we have seen some activity in the last few weeks?
Craig Billings:
I think Julie just mentioned in the prepared remarks that we're going to pay down our upcoming maturity with cash on the balance sheet.
Operator:
Our next caller is Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
I wonder just circling back to how things are trending post Chinese New Year, obviously really strong numbers through the holiday. There's been chatter that the drop-off in the market overall, it was a little bit more than seasonal. So, I wonder if you could sort of give your take on that. Is it reasonable to think that there'll just be kind of increased volatility maybe around kind of shoulder periods, or I guess, how would you kind of frame that more than normal for the seasonal drop-off post the holiday?
Craig Billings:
Hi Robin. Yes, I'm not sure you've been talking to, Frederic just mentioned that actually we've been performing above what we would normally see during that drop-off period.
Robin Farley:
But when you say performing above, I didn’t know if that was a combination of you talked about your expenses being down, and so it could be overall EBITDA. But just wondering on the...
Craig Billings:
No. He was talking business volumes.
Robin Farley:
Okay. So, would you then assume that that's a growth in market share? In other words, what's your take on sort of the overall market volatility that maybe you're gaining share in, it sounds like in that period, but just your take on this.
Craig Billings:
It's a week, right? In the grand scheme of things, it's a week. So, it's hard to read any tea leaves in a week. What I would say is that the market roared back, Macau was a rager on the mass side, on the direct VIP side, on the retail side and on the occupancy side during Chinese New Year, and it outperformed our expectations for the lull period shortly thereafter. Anything beyond that, it's just too early to read.
Robin Farley:
Okay. And just to clarify, when you say it outperformed your expectations, but you meant specifically that it was a better sequential drop off than what you'd seen in '19 or just better than what your expectations were for this year?
Craig Billings:
The former.
Operator:
Our next question is Daniel Politzer, you may go ahead, from Wells Fargo.
Daniel Politzer:
I wanted to circle back on the $4 million EBITDA per day for Chinese New Year that you mentioned. Is there any way you could put that into historical context, I don't know what it was in 2019 or during other Golden Week or Chinese New York periods?
Craig Billings:
Yes, it would have been -- I don't remember if we've quoted it previously. So, I want to be careful in terms of prior disclosure. But it's substantial relative to prior periods. It's not -- it's certainly not where we peak. I'll put it to you that way, because the junket contribution wasn't there this year. And that was, call it, $700 million to $1 million of EBITDA in a normal Chinese New Year. I think the point is, it's a substantial number, given that the market really opened at the beginning of January, and it gives us confidence in the remainder of 2023 and beyond.
Daniel Politzer:
Understood. And then, just pivoting to Las Vegas. I mean, to what extent since China is effectively reopened, have you seen that high-end Asia business kind of resurface your Vegas property?
Craig Billings:
Too early to say. I mean, our box [ph] drop in the fourth quarter was pretty strong. So, we've been doing pretty well on the back of domestic box [ph] business. And in fact, those folks from the region that chose to sit it out -- sit COVID out over here. So again, a little bit early to say. You have to go through the process of getting a visa, you have to arrange travel, et cetera, et cetera. But certainly, international travel is a tailwind that we hope to see in Vegas in 2023 given that really in 2022, it was only -- the only real inbound visitation was some from Europe and from Latin America.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Operator, the next question will be the last one.
Operator:
And our last question comes from Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley.
Stephen Grambling:
I may have missed this. But in Las Vegas, can you just provide any additional color on what you're seeing in terms of forward bookings, not only in -- I guess, the first quarter should be particularly strong, but even as we look out over the course of the year, what you're seeing, and any expectations as it relates to kind of convention mix?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start, and then I'll ask Brian to comment. So first and foremost, we have been really intentional over the past year and how we've approached our business in Las Vegas. Our business here is more relevant with the best customers than ever before. And so even with the tailwinds, we've outperformed, yet we're keenly aware of the broader economic environment from interest rates to gas prices to layoffs, and we have a 2023 playbook for any number of economic scenarios. Brian, do you want to talk about your view on 2023 and then perhaps dig a little bit more into convention?
Brian Gullbrants:
Absolutely. As we look to '23, not only were we pacing strong coming out of '22 going into '23, has just accelerated. I'm so excited about what we've got coming in '23. When you look at it, we've got the best teams in the business. We've got the best assets in the business. In Vegas, we've got strong pace of group, particularly as we look forward into '23 and then even beyond. Q1 may be a record for us. It's just really done well. We have strong pricing power in every channel. We got a new show we just launched with Awakening. We've got several projects coming in '23 that are really exciting. And then we kind of kicked things at the end, up a notch with F1 in November. So our outlook for the year, pending no other macroeconomic impacts looks pretty good. We're feeling pretty good about what we can see right now. So on the group side, very strong.
Craig Billings:
We're doing really well on what we can control. We don't control the macro economy. That's a fact. So, how that flows, I don't know. But we're feeling good about our business here.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. Then if I can just sneak in a quick follow-up on Macau. As you think about how to grow the direct VIP business, you're thinking about that as an opportunity. Is one way to think through maybe some of the customers who’re used to that, both VIP and in the mass market segment as a target customer? And is there any way to frame how big that business could grow?
Craig Billings:
Every customer is unique. And so, it's really difficult. If I had a broad strokes playbook, I probably wouldn't share it on a public call. But every customer is unique. And so, the ecosystem now, which is comprised of junkets but different, promoters and us, it gives us the ability to address a subsegment of those junket customers. Some of them, they're going to -- it's going to take years to figure out. But certainly, a portion of those will migrate into our direct business. You saw it over Chinese New Year. And some of them will migrate into premium mass. But I don't think there's a broad swath playbook that we can talk about.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Okay. Well, with that, we'll now close the call. Thank you all for your time today and your support of Wynn Resorts. We look forward to updating you very soon.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] And I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. Before I get into the quarter, I'd like to thank the cast, crew and producers of Awakening, our new show in Las Vegas, which successfully opened on Monday. The show is yet another example of our willingness to innovate and push the envelope to drive the straight forward. I'm incredibly proud of the team behind the shelf. I'll kick off in Las Vegas, where the team turned in a third quarter record with a $196 million of EBITDA or approximately $207 million adjusted for lower-than-normal holds. We saw broad-based strength across casino, hotel, food and beverage and retail, all well above third quarter 2021 levels despite the difficult year-over-year comps. The comparison to third quarter 2019 is even more impressive with our EBITDA more than doubling on a 36% increase in revenue. Our investment in people, facilities and programming and our team's deep sense of ownership continue to elevate in Las Vegas above our peers. This quarter once again highlights the benefit of that deliberate investment strategy. Looking ahead, encouraged that the strength we have experienced over the past several quarters has continued into the fourth quarter. In fact, our EBITDA during October was an all-time monthly record for the property. Similarly, our forward-looking indicators also remain quite strong despite well-known macro concerns as room bookings are pacing at or above pre-COVID levels on substantially higher ADRs. Near term, we expect the normal seasonal pattern to hold during the remainder of Q4, with some of the usual softness surrounding Thanksgiving, followed by a strong close to the year in the latter half of December. Turning to Boston, like Vegas, Encore had a strong quarter, generating $61 million of EBITDA. We saw strength across the casino with record gross gaming revenue and on the non-gaming side with record hotel revenue driven by strength in both ADR and occupancy. These trends have continued into Q4, with EBITDA per day in October, consistent with the third quarter levels. Looking ahead, we remain excited about sports betting in the Commonwealth, which is expected to kick off early next year. Our retail sports book there will soon be a significant opportunity for customer acquisition. We also continue to finalize our plans for our upcoming development project across the street from the property that will add incremental parking, food and beverage and entertainment amenities. In Macau, the market continues to be challenging with market-wide GGR in the third quarter, only reaching approximately 8% of the third quarter of 2019 levels, and our results have reflected that. Our team has done a fantastic job controlling costs in a very challenging operating environment through a combination of decreases in payroll and fixed OpEx. As a result, despite the nearly two-week closure of casinos in the market in July, our overall EBITDA loss in the third quarter was $66 million, which was a meaningful improvement from a loss of $90 million in the second quarter even after adjusting for a $7 million bad debt credit that benefited the results in the third quarter. More recently, we did see some encouraging pockets of demand during the October holiday period, particularly in our direct VIP business, where turnover was actually slightly above the comparable 2019 holiday period; and in our retail business, where tenant sales reached 74% of 2019 levels. This once again highlights the strong demand for Macau's unique tourism offering during periods when the market is accessible. The authority in Macau continued to advance the concession process according to the preestablished timeline. We were pleased to submit our concession tender application in September and the government is currently reviewing the proposals with decisions expected to be made by year-end. Long term, we remain excited about the prospects from Macau with so much pent-up demand for travel and tourism in Asia. At Wynn Interactive, our overall EBITDA burn rate declined to $18 million in Q3 from $21 million in the second quarter of 2022 on the back of strong cost controls and improved marketing efficiency. We are looking forward to the potential for a significant catalyst for Wynn there in Massachusetts. Lastly, we're advancing quickly on our planning for Wynn Marjan, our integrated resort in the UAE. We're in the late stages of programming for the resort. Given the pristine beach setting and the somewhat nature of a man-made island, we have incredible canvas with which to work and design something truly unique. I expect we will share renderings, programming and plans more publicly in early 2023. I also expect we will be driving piles for the foundation of the property by the middle of next year. We look forward to sharing more details with you about this exciting project in due course. With that, I'll turn it back to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe :
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated a third quarter record of $195.8 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $544.4 million of operating revenue during the quarter. Lower-than-normal hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $12 million in Q3. Our hotel occupancy was 88.8% in the quarter, up 580 basis points year-over-year and up 90 basis points versus Q3 2019. Importantly, we've stayed true to our luxury brand and continue to compete on quality of product and service experience, with our overall ADR reaching $426 during Q3 2022, up 8.7% versus Q3 2021 and 39% above Q3 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across food and beverage and retail, which were up nicely year-over-year and also well above pre-pandemic levels. In the casino, our Q3 2022 slot handle increased 31.6% year-over-year and was 72.2% above Q3 2019 levels. Similarly, our table drop were up 12.5% year-over-year, and was 32.4% above Q3 2019 levels despite still suppressed international play during the quarter due to COVID-related travel challenges. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 36% in the quarter. On a hold-normalized basis, our EBITDA margin was up approximately 1,300 basis points compared to Q3 2019. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day was $3.6 million in Q3 2022, up 10% compared to Q3 2019 levels, but well below the 36% increase in revenue due to lower headcount and broad-based cost efficiencies in areas that do not impact the guest experience. We remain committed to maintaining a cost structure that appropriately balances margins and our exacting service standards. In Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $61.1 million in Q3 2022 with EBITDA margin of 28.9%. We saw broadband across casino and nongaming during the quarter. In the casino, we generated $184 million of GGR, a property record with strength in both tables and slots. Our nongaming revenue grew 33% year-over-year, with particular strength in the hotel, driven by 97% occupancy and a $398 ADR. We stayed very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1.1 million in Q3 2022. This was a decrease of over 10% compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019 and broadly in line with Q2 2022. As we've discussed on prior calls, the year-over-year EBITDA and OpEx comps were impacted by a combination of contractual labor agreements, which added around $45,000 per day to our OpEx base beginning late in Q2 2022, along with a onetime benefit of $3 million in Q3 of last year. We're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow the top line over time. Our Macau operations delivered an EBITDA loss of $65.6 million in the quarter on $115.6 million of operating revenue as the COVID situation in the region has continued to suppress visitation. As Craig noted, while the business has remained challenging, we experienced some encouraging pockets of demand during the October Golden Week holiday period, particularly in our direct VIP and retail businesses. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax, was approximately $1.6 million per day in Q3, a sequential decrease compared to $1.9 million per day in Q2 2022. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs in a difficult operating environment. Longer term, we're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. Turning to Wynn Interactive, our EBITDA burn rate improved to $17.7 million in Q3 2022, from $1 million in Q2 2022, primarily driven by improved marketing efficiency and disciplined OpEx control. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $2.8 billion as of September 30. This was comprised of $997 million of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $1.8 billion in the U.S. These numbers exclude the undrawn $500 million intercompany revolving credit facility when resorts entered into with Wynn Macau. Our previously announced sale leaseback transaction for the real estate of Encore Boston Harbor remains on track to close before the end of the year. Pro forma for the transaction, we have approximately $4.4 billion of consolidated global cash and liquidity. Importantly, the combination of very strong performance in Las Vegas and Boston, with the properties generating trailing 12-month EBITDA of over $1 billion, together with our robust liquidity, creates a very healthy pro forma leverage profile in the U.S. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $87 million, primarily related to the Awakening theater at Wynn Las Vegas and normal course maintenance. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli :
Guys, I just wanted to kind of talk a little bit about what both of you mentioned as it pertain to the uptick that you're seeing in Macau. How much of that at this point do you think you could perhaps -- and I understand it's kind of direct VIPs, so a smaller number of players can really move the needle. But how much of a change have you seen since the Visa policies were tweaked a little bit? And with respect to the comments you made on nongaming, is there potentially something that's kind of brewing, that's swiftening the pace a little bit of the return of customers?
Craig Billings :
Hi, Carlo. Sure, I'll start, and then I'll ask Ian to comment. I think on the latter portion of your question, with Hong Kong being accessible, I think you've seen pretty reasonable retail sales in Macau, given it's more accessible than Hong Kong. And I think that's just a natural -- that's just a natural outcome of accessibility. With respect to your -- the former part of your question, I mean it's like squeezing air in a balloon, right? The demand has to go somewhere. And so we weren't surprised to see an uptick in direct VIP growth in light of the market having no junkets. So I don't think either one of them were surprising to us. We've seen it before. We've -- over the course of the past year, when there have been pockets of demand. Ian, would you add anything to that?
Ian Coughlan :
I'd just like to clarify that for e-Visas they haven't really gotten moving yet, they reopened on the 1st of November. So it wouldn't have had an effect on October activity. So the activity that we saw in our VIP area and premium is linked to a certain extent to returning former junket players. We also saw a Chinese New Year. So we believe it's our premium positioning in the market and the facility and services that we offer make us attractive to those players, and there will be a return of them in the future.
Carlo Santarelli :
Great. And while you're there, is it possible that we will hear something? I know you guys certainly said by year-end as it pertains to the granting of the concessions. Is it possible that between here and there, seven, eight weeks away, that we will hear some contingent licenses being handed out?
Craig Billings :
Sorry, anything is possible, Carlo, but the pre-established timeline has been year-end.
Carlo Santarelli :
Great. And then, Craig, while I have you -- I know you mentioned a little bit of development on the UAE and obviously, some ground break next year with more color in the first quarter of ['13]. But could you talk a little bit about the progress in your learnings maybe at this stage, anything incremental you could share on that front?
Craig Billings :
Yes, sure. I think I mentioned on a previous call that the more time we spend over there, and I was just over there recently, the more we believe in the nongaming elements of that market. It's a tremendous nongaming leisure and luxury market. And as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we're in the pretty late stages now of programming. So essentially determining what we're going to build, not how it's going to look per se. And given that it's a man-made island without any existing development, it's an incredibly flexible location on which to plan. For example, if you want to move a beach, you move a beach. So it's a really exciting project. And we've sought to maximize the relationship of the facility to its surroundings, particularly in the nongaming amenities like food and beverage wellness and really take advantage of such a unique location. Meanwhile, the casino component, where at least for some period of time, we will be operating on our own, which makes it quite exciting is shaping up to be somewhat larger than Wynn Las Vegas, but with numerous pockets of energy and compression. And so striking that balance is important. When you think about a market like that where you for some period of time, we will be the only operator, you certainly don't want to underbuild the casino, but you want to maintain that sense of energy. So I think the property is going to be a stunner, and we look forward to sharing more in early 2023.
Operator:
The next question is from Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff :
I was hoping you can talk about Las Vegas, Craig, and a way that's going to be a little bit different than how you and your strip peers talked about trends up until recently, specifically about programming. Can you discuss maybe in this way, that would be helpful as we try to ascertain the sustainability of currently strong trends. Can you talk about how many programming events do you have for the first half of next year versus the first half of this year if visibility stretches out for the full year of next year? And can you compare that to full year of '22? Is there a general rule of thumb relating to incremental revenues of an average programming event?
Craig Billings :
Sure. Look, I think this, Las Vegas has done programming for years in some form or fashion. And I think as we emerged from COVID, we were, in many cases, a better location in terms of accessibility, openness, match, et cetera, et cetera, than some of our adjacent markets, particularly California, I think the trend towards programming and the willingness of a higher value customer to pop over to Las Vegas for a particular event increased meaningfully. And so what I think -- and by the way, at the same time, you obviously had a number of sports teams that had emerged in Las Vegas, notably the Raiders who drive a tremendous amount of visitation. And so I think in general, the town has become quite good at really looking at every weekend or every two weeks is an opportunity to program something. The journey for us, I think, is slightly different, right? We don't think of programming is purely transactional. Who are we going to plug into a particular theater on a particular day. For us, it's more holistic. How can we leverage all of the assets that we have in this building, including the golf course, which we've used to great success with the match with the recent Concours d'Elegance car show that we drummed up and originated here. And so how do we use the property as a stage? We think about that all the time now. And so I don't have a heuristic for you, where I can quote to you x number of events per year because really we're focused on it every single week. But it's certainly -- it more than just revenue to the property, right? It is -- it makes you the CNBC in spot. And that's important because marketing is no longer about billboards. It's about television commercials. It's about content. And so we've been incredibly good at creating content. And it doesn't hurt that during the pandemic, we continued to invest in this property and invest in our people. And so we're firing on every single cylinder here, and I think it shows in the numbers and programming is a piece of it.
Joseph Greff :
Great. And then, Craig, my second question relates to a topic that you might be limited in fully answering. We also have Tilman for filing 13G filing last week. So my questions are
Craig Billings :
Well, I guess what I can say is kudos to him because he's done quite well. Since he appears to have started acquiring in the second quarter when the stock was excessively cheap. It's actually right around when we were buying back some stock as well that we reported in our second quarter Q. Based on what we've seen watching our share register as we do constantly, sometime in Q2 began seeing accumulations really by certain banks that have traditionally been associated with derivative transactions like total return swaps, things like that. And we watch those banks established positions in our stock, and we were well aware of them. All in all, I think it's just a great recognition of the value in our equity, but there's not much more to say beyond that.
Operator:
The next question is from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley :
Craig, just wanted to go a little deeper on Las Vegas. We talked about sort of the top line side, a little bit the outlook there. Can we talk about sort of labor and OpEx trends, I think hold notwithstanding in the quarter? Operating expenses were up a little bit. Can you just help us think about the puts and takes here as some of the nongaming mix continues to come back, some of the group in banquet and catering stuff, the show comes in and has a bigger contribution? Can you help us think about sort of the balance of those as we move into next year, and we're starting to lap a really strong margin and rate -- average daily rate performance in ‘22? I'm sure there's a different impact for dollars than for margins. So maybe help us think about some of that as we look out next year.
Craig Billings :
Yes, sure. I'll turn that one over to Brian.
Brian Gullbrants :
Sure. Thanks, Shaun. Our team has really been incredibly disciplined over this last year and even before that coming out of the pandemic with respect to OpEx. We've driven real strong revenues. The EBIT and EBITDA margin, as you can see, has been quite strong and in comparison to Q3 '19, amazing performance. So I think this has all been done by us really balancing the revenue, in our cost base and most importantly, our brand and really being conscious of that. There's an impact from the seasonality of where we're at. Our hold, obviously, was a little down this last quarter, in labor being very well controlled by the team. And I think that we can continue to see margin expansion versus '19 at almost any given revenue level. But the team has really been balanced on focusing on the revenue, the cost base and our brand, and we've seen great growth. As far as ADR, we've seen very little resistance, as you're filing, I'm sure you are. We've leveraged as much we pushed as hard as we can and kudos to our revenue team and sales team, they're absolutely crushing it. We are seeing incredible records on our side for ADRs. And that's not just on the transient side. We're seeing that in group across every segment.
Craig Billings :
And I would just add to that. As you know, Shaun, we don't target margin in any particular quarter, right? We target prudent management of our resources in order to deliver an experience that is consistent with the brand. We learned a lot during COVID, a lot. We are more nimble than we have ever been with respect to OpEx. And so we're running the business with less people. We're delivering on the brand promise as well as or better than we have historically, and that's how we manage the business.
Shaun Kelley :
Great. And for my follow-up, maybe for Ian. Just obviously, the e-Visa channel did open, I believe, on November 1. Has there been any notable change or anything you could just say about traffic levels because that's obviously material area that has been shut down for a very long period of time at this point. And if not, are there some counterbalancing forces we need to be aware of? I know there have been a decent number of lockdowns and COVID outbreaks that also could have some impact here. So just what are you seeing on the ground?
Craig Billings :
Ian, you want to take that?
Ian Coughlan :
Shaun, we've -- we're very impressed with the government's reaction to the recent outbreak in Macau. When we had an outbreak in the summer, and we had a casino closure, there was a six-week cycle of closure and recovery. And the government has managed to turn it around in two weeks this time. So we are starting to see a buildup in occupancy this coming weekend. So we're coming out of our recent outbreak, and I believe we will see the e-Visas trickle-in in the next couple of weeks and then pick up pace in the coming months.
Operator:
The next question is from David Katz with Jefferies.
Cassandra Lee:
This is Cassandra on behalf of David. Can we talk about digital wagering? I think some operators talked about October being close to breakeven or even EBITDA positive. Can you provide any update or incremental clarity on when you think the business may profit?
Craig Billings :
Sure. So look, in the long term, we think about this business, as I've said on prior calls, we think about it really over the longer term. And in particular, iCasino, where we've had pretty reasonable success and our brand has real currency. As we've said before, what we aren't -- and I think we were the first to say so. What we aren't willing to do is burn billions of dollars between now and then, and we've done that. If you look at our results for Q3 year-over-year, we had almost the same total handle in both Q3 2022 and Q3 2021 on a 90% reduction in marketing spend and an 80% reduction in burn. Because our initial customer cohorts continue to play with us, generating revenue, and we're being very thoughtful with respect to user acquisition and promos. With Massachusetts coming up, I would expect a modest uptick in UA, but nothing earth shattering because we have a sizable database there. And we're highly likely to have retail sports betting without mobile for a while. So the goals at this point are to launch Massachusetts, and as you said, achieved breakeven and then grow as the market does, particularly in iGaming, where again, our brand has currency, and we can ultimately drive the best digital customers to Wynn Las Vegas and Encore Boston Harbor. So we're not calling the EBITDA breakeven point yet. But I mean, if you look at our numbers, we're getting pretty close.
Cassandra Lee:
Great. And for the follow-up, have there been any updated thoughts on the excess land you have in Las Vegas? What are some kind of strategies that could activate the value there?
Craig Billings :
Look, we're focused -- the type of design and development that we do, you can't spread yourself too thin. So we're very focused right now on the UAE and getting that right. It's a tremendous, very high return opportunity for us we expect. And so that's really the sign of our -- that's really the focus of our design and development efforts at the moment.
Operator:
The next question is from Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo.
Daniel Politzer :
So in Las Vegas, you talked a little bit about the programming benefits and going forward, how should we should be thinking about that. As you think about -- along with that, the group and convention business coming back and into 2023 and the occupancy uplift, is it fair to give you guys that full 5 points credit going forward starting next year? Or is that something that's going to be phased in more gradually?
Craig Billings :
We don't -- again, we don't really talk about forward guidance, so I can't translate it into basis points. What I would say in general is that you're right. The group in convention business during the earlier portion of this year was a little bit thinner or certainly concentrated in very specific pockets. And over the course of really the past one month, 1.5 months or so, we've seen the business come back more fully. So that certainly is an occupancy tailwind, but quantifying it at this point, we're not -- we don't do that.
Daniel Politzer :
Understood. And then in terms of capital allocation, you're set to receive the proceeds from the Encore Boston sale leaseback in the fourth quarter. How -- did that change your thinking in terms of allocating capital or in terms of how much you're buying back in terms of stock or maybe even a special dividend?
Craig Billings :
Well, the recurring dividend is really the cornerstone of our strategy, and it always has been and certainly was pre-COVID. Our U.S. business is generating very, very healthy cash flow. And our high ROIC development projects, UAE, the development we're doing adjacent to Boston, the press has reported that we're interested in New York, those are well funded given particularly the cash infusion that you just referenced. The resumption of recurring dividend really hinges on the recovery of Macau. So I think it's a little too early to be talking about significant changes in capital allocation policy, pending the return of Macau, which hopefully is over the next several quarters. So stay tuned.
Operator:
The next question is from Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley :
Can you kind of remind us what your interest level is in the potential New York side at this point?
Craig Billings :
Yes. I mean we -- sure, Robin. So we are all about gateway cities, marquee developments, battleship assets. And so yes, we're always interested in locations like New York. The devil is in the details, of course, when it comes to what the upfront license payment ends up being, what the tax rate ends up being, what the detailed regulations end up being. But yes, of course, we're interested in New York as has been reported in the press.
Robin Farley :
But you wouldn't necessarily give any more detail in terms of like potential location or timing expectation?
Craig Billings :
I think it's been reported that we are working with related which is Hudson Yards.
Robin Farley :
Right. And anything in terms of your timing expectations?
Craig Billings :
It's really dependent on the process. The RFP has yet to drop.
Julie Cameron-Doe :
Thank you, operator. We'll take one last question.
Operator:
Our final question is from Brandt Montour with Barclays.
Brandt Montour :
So your margin story was really, really good here this quarter, and you gave a stat on OpEx per day growth from '19 of up 10%. And I was curious if we could look at that number on a CAGR basis and sort of get any comfortability around your ability to manage to that growth rate? Or if -- and I guess what I'm getting at is inflation picking up going to sort of impact that going forward.
Craig Billings Wynn Resorts, Limited – CEO, Treasurer & Director:
Well, look, I'll take this one, Julie. So first, you have to think back to our experience during COVID and kind of work forward. So as we emerge from COVID, we were forced actually to become much more disciplined in terms of how we looked at costs. Now we have always delivered the best guest experience in the business. And the challenge that we had was making sure that we continue to do that, but frankly, on a lower FTE count. And we've carried that on. So we're down FTEs relative to '19, even in this quarter and even in last quarter, when we printed nearly $240 million in EBITDA. So when you look at our OpEx per day now, a lot of it is variable and directly related to revenue. To your point on inflation, inflation works two ways in our business, right? The price of a hotel room can be adjusted every minute of every day. And that's one of the benefits of a business like ours. And so we feel good about our ability to manage labor costs. Now we have a portion of our business that's and that's true of everybody -- all the major players other than one up and down the strip. And so that's an important consideration. But we're not staying up at night doing about the cost of labor And in fact, a vast majority or a large number of positions in our building are tipped and folks that are tipped, where else do they want to work, you want to be here. So we feel great about our margins. Again, we don't manage quarter-to-quarter to a particular margin we manage our FTEs with discipline, and we try to maximize the revenue and maximize our delivery on the brand promise.
Brandt Montour :
Excellent. And then just as a quick follow-up. When you talk to your internal sales folks who are on the phone every day with the planners at large corporate clients, do you get the sense that there's any unevenness across different corporate sectors, i.e., tech, where people over there sort of looking at '23 gatherings and things that we're thinking about planning and potentially hitting the pause button just given the macro?
Craig Billings :
Brian, do you want to take that?
Brian Gullbrants :
Sure. Thanks, Craig. Brandt, I think it's something that's real telling from an industry standpoint is to really just look at the large city-wise. CES back in 2020 did over 170,000; and in '22, it did 44,000. So certainly, that is an international component -- a strong international component to that business as well as in the tech industry. But then if you look at SEMA that just happened this last month, a couple of weeks ago, they had over 130,000. So we're having the most solid year we've ever had. We are going to have our best year ever in group in both room nights and revenue, and we're pacing ahead of that 423. And that's despite January and February having a real soft January and February with Omicron. So I think we're well positioned. There are certain industries that are performing better than others, and we're seeing that both at Wynn and across the city I would assume.
Craig Billings :
We've been more than able to fade any minor fallout that we've seen from tech, mortgage, et cetera, et cetera.
Brian Gullbrants :
Yes. We've had a couple of cancellations, but it's nothing out of the norm. In fact, it's kind of below what we would normally see. So I think we're quite comfortable with where we're pacing. We're pacing ahead of where we should be, and we are very encouraged by what we're seeing for '23.
Julie Cameron-Doe :
With that, we will now close the call. Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for your interest, and we look forward to talking to you again next quarter.
Operator:
Thank you. That does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question and answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the line over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Frederic Luvisutto and Jennie Holiday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. Before getting into the quarter, I'd really like to thank our 27,000 team members globally. 2020 so far has been very different in Macau than it has been in North America. Our folks in Macau have endured what I know is a difficult period of isolation and volatility while our teams in Las Vegas and Boston have responded admirably to meaningfully elevated business volumes. To those operating in both circumstances, thank you. I appreciate you. Starting in Las Vegas. The team at Wynn Las Vegas turned in another all-time record quarter with $227 million of EBITDA and broad-based strength across casino, hotel, food and beverage and retail, all well above 2Q 2019 levels. In fact, our EBITDA this quarter was over 40% above the pre-COVID Las Vegas strip EBITDA record also delivered by Wynn Las Vegas in 2014. A few other all-time quarterly records to call out
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated an all-time quarterly record of $226.7 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $561.1 million of operating revenue during the quarter. Higher than normal hold positively impacted EBITDA by around $6 million in Q2. Our hotel occupancy was 90.5% quarter, up 40 basis points versus Q2 2019. Importantly, we stayed true to our luxury brand and continue to compete on quality of product and service experience with our overall ADR reaching $460 during Q2 2022, 38% above Q2 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across food and beverage and retail, which were also well above pre-pandemic levels. . In the casino, our Q2 2022 slot handle was 63% above Q2 2019 levels, and our table dropped was 28% above Q2 2019 level, despite still suppressed international plays during the quarter due to COVID-related travel challenges. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 40.4% in the quarter. On a hold-normalized basis, our EBITDA margin was up over 1,200 basis points compared to Q2 2019. OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day was $3.5 million in Q2 2022, in line with Q2 2019 levels despite a 21% increase in revenue due to lower head count and broad-based cost efficiencies in areas that do not impact experience. We remain committed to maintaining our cost structure that appropriately balance the market on our service standards. In Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA at $63.7 million through 2022, with EBITDA margin at 13.3%. We saw broad-based strength across casino and non-gaming. In the casino, we generated $181 million of GGR, a property record with strength across both tables and slots. Our nongaming revenue grew 78% year-over-year with particular strength in the hotel, driven by 94.1% occupancy and a $309 ADR. As Craig noted earlier, Q2 strength continued into Q3 as consumer spending on the unique experience remains strong. We stay value disciplined on the cost side with OpEx, excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1.1 million in Q2 2022. This was a decrease of approximately 13% compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019 and up modestly relative to Q1 2022 on higher revenue and higher payroll. As we've previously foreshadowed, contractual loan group reman added around $45,000 per day for our OpEx base beginning late in the quarter. We are well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow the top line over time. Our Macau operations, we delivered a EBITDA of $90.3 million in the quarter on $117.2 million of operating revenue as the COVID situation in the region has continued. As Craig noted, lower-than-normal VIP holds negatively impacted our EBITDA by around $8 million in the quarter. Businesses remained challenging into Q3 as local COVID outbreaks in Macau do the shutdown of integrated resorts for nearly two weeks during July. Despite the closure, our quarter-to-date EBITDA burn was approximately $1 million per day, in line with Q2. Our OpEx, excluding gaming tax, was approximately $1.9 million per day in Q2, a sequential decrease compared to $2.1 million in Q1 2022. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on costs in a difficult operating environment. Longer term, we're well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. . Turning to Wynn Interactive. In Q2, the business generated approximately $704 million in total turnover, a decline of 3% sequentially versus Q1 due to a seasonally weaker for calendar. Decreases in marketing expense and other OpEx drove an improvement in our EBITDA burn rate of $21 million in Q2 2022 from $31.5 million in Q1 2022. Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $3.1 billion as of June 30. This is comprised of $1.3 billion of total cash and available in Macau and $1.7 billion in the U.S. These numbers exclude the $500 million intercompany revolving credit facility, Wynn Resort and Wynn with Wynn Macau, which further bolsters our already strong liquidity position in Macau and highlights the continued confidence we have in the long-term prospects for that business. Our previously announced sale leaseback transactions at a real estate Encore Boston Harbor remains on track for a Q4 close. Pro forma for the transaction, we have approximately $4.7 billion of consolidated global cash and liquidity. Importantly, the combination of very strong performance in Las Vegas and Boston with the property generating trailing 12-month EBITDA of just over $1 billion together with our robust liquidity creates a very healthy pro forma domestic leverage profile. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $90 million primarily related to the Wynn Las Vegas room remodel and the set renovation. With that, we'll now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlos Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead sir.
Carlo Santarelli:
Obviously, the booking pace on group remains pretty solid in Las Vegas. And clearly, there's a lot of pent-up demand for that. With the experience of now taking on bookings and hosting groups in the new facility. As you guys look out to 2023, what do you believe to be kind of the tailwind from an occupied room night perspective or an occupancy perspective? As well as perhaps what impact that might have on kind of the margin profile of the property with the presumably added occupancy?
Craig Billings:
Yes, it's definitely true that group continues to be strong. And I'll ask Brian to talk about pacing in just a second. As we've talked about on prior calls, we did have some legacy group rooms as I think everyone at the market would from contracts booked in prior years that were at lower ADRs. We've been obviously signing new contracts at higher ADRs, which as they roll in will offset that. From an occupied room night perspective, I mean, we're running very healthy occupancy today. So I don't think it would change overall occupancy, but obviously, it does mix. Brian, do you want to talk about pacing a little bit?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. Our sales team here at Wynn Las Vegas continues to just do an outstanding job, building a really strong base of business for our future. The second half of '22 that we're into now is ahead of pace and '23, we see quite strong. Just to give you a bit a sense of how we're doing the cumulative group bookings in the first half of '22 were 40% above the first half of '19. So the team just continues to build that solid base from which I think we can effectively yield-manage our rooms better next year and as we move into the future.
Carlo Santarelli:
And then just as you think about that group room night as it pertains to 2023, and acknowledging other than the first quarter, which was a little lighter from an occupancy perspective, but 90% in this quarter. Who does that customer next year? Is that -- are you still getting a healthy or at least a tangible amount of rooms through OTAs and third-party channels right now? Or who is kind of being replaced? I assume it's likely not the casino customer.
Craig Billings:
Well, we -- it's a great question, Carlo. We've already scaled back our allocation to some of the lower profitability channels. That's obviously the first thing you do any time you're yield managing. And it's a little bit of a rich man's problem now as we think forward because we have a very healthy casino business, as you saw in the numbers, and we have a very healthy group. So we're attuned to how we optimize that mix, and we'll be doing that over the course of the next couple of quarters. So stay tuned on '23, but we recognize a lot to call it an issue, it's actually an opportunity. We recognize the opportunity, and we will take advantage of it.
Operator:
Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
I have two questions. One is another similar question on group in Las Vegas. When you look at next year, Craig, what are you targeting in terms of percentage of room nights related to the group segment? And then how much of that is on the books now? And how much of the strategy is in the period for the period going forward on group given the seemingly upward movement in ADR Rock Group?
Craig Billings:
Brian, do you want to take that?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. I think as we look at it right now, we're pacing to a normal percentage of around roughly 30%. We continue to excel. As far as where we are for next year, we're slightly ahead of where we should -- where we normally are. So we're very confident that we'll hit the number we need to and it continues to contribute to our bottom line in base.
Craig Billings:
And those new bookings, particularly for new customers in the out years are at a substantially higher ADR.
Joe Greff:
One thing that maybe surprised us looking at your earnings release tonight, Craig, was the buyback activity. Can you talk about that and how much of your capital allocation going forward is going to be buyback activity, assuming share price levels at or around these levels?
Craig Billings:
Joe, you know us, you've been following us a years, and you know that we're not programmatic about buybacks. We repurchased the stock when we think it's ridiculously cheap. And during Q2, that was certainly the case, particularly from May through the end of the quarter. So we're always balancing liquidity needs, capital deployment for growth and returning capital to shareholders. The wildcard, let's be honest, the wildcard is Macau. So as we get better visibility on Macau over time then we can have more confidence in each particular form of capital deployment and know that we can do them concurrently.
Operator:
Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
I just wanted to sort of ask about the trends in Las Vegas a little bit more. The color on just the trajectory of what you're seeing on the casino floor relative to the hotel. Could you just maybe help us think about as we get into some of the tougher, I think, comps on the growth that we've seen in casino, what are some of your expectations around trends or what may be driving that growth? I know market share gains, maybe on the slot side has been a theme, but maybe pros cons on casino growth? And then like I said, we've already talked about hotels, so just more on the GGR line?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start and then Brian will jump in. So this started really back in 2019. So you've heard us talk about before our reconstitution of our database strategy. We've made a bunch of changes in hosting. We launched Wynn Rewards. So really going into the reemergence of COVID, we had reoriented our casino strategy, and I think it shows. At the same time, we've been very relentlessly reinvesting in the property in Las Vegas despite COVID, in the rooms, in the food and beverage, and amenities, and it shows and customers notice it. And so yes, we are taking share, and I'm incredibly proud of the team for doing that. Brian, do you want to give a little bit of incremental color qualitatively on July?
Brian Gullbrants:
Yes. When you look at what we've done in July, we actually what the host team and the marketing team and the casino segments have focused on really expanding into markets that we haven't been in before, reaching further into domestic segments that we are seeing great returns on. And year-over-year, both drop and handle are significantly up. I could be happier with the team right now, and they continue to just continue to push with special events and driving weekends. It's just a great balance right now, and we're going to continue to do more of it.
Craig Billings:
And Shaun, we acknowledge trees don't grow to the sky, right? I mean you're seeing this in all your Las Vegas names. But as I said in my prepared remarks, we watch the data daily, right? We don't have to look in Las Vegas. We don't have to look after 10 properties. We look after one. And we know everything that's going on in this building. And as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we don't see, so that's where we are.
Shaun Kelley:
Really encouraging. And then my follow-up would be not so much about slowdown, but just about maybe traditional seasonality a little bit here, right? Historically, I think the properties tend to do a little bit better in the first half than second, especially in the third quarter. Can you help us just think about how those patterns may shape up for the balance of the year? Because we are hearing a little bit more from the broader lodging industry about a return to more normal seasonal behavior. Just any comments we could think about just to make sure we're in the right place for seasonal purposes?
Craig Billings:
Sure. You're right. August is usually pretty weak in Las Vegas. I think that's probably true or I shouldn't think pretty weak, relatively weak, particularly given the quarter that we've just experienced. So August is usually a pretty slow month. Groups come back in September, and you start to see an increase in occupancy. I talked about the occupancy shifts that we would expect over the course of Q3 in my prepared remarks, and we stand by that. So business is good. In fact, it's really good. But you always see seasonality in the quarter. You can go back and look at historical Q2 to Q3 movement from an EBITDA perspective in percentage terms. And I think you will see seasonality.
Operator:
Our next caller is David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead.
David Katz:
I was hoping for some insight around Interactive. Given that Massachusetts is moving forward, we do observe that there was a little bit of movement and the loss in the quarter. What are your updated thoughts there? Would the burn go up a bit, given that Massachusetts becomes an opportunity on home turf will take it all?
Craig Billings:
Sure. No problem. So beginning, I think, with our Q3 call, since last year, we talked a little bit about what we were seeing in the market and some of the irrationality that we were seeing in the market. I can say that, that has markedly declined, and that's encouraging. So to see other players in the market behaving reasonably well is great. For us, Massachusetts, I've said this before, Massachusetts was always an important good strapping event for Wynn Bet and for Wynn Interactive as is any movement in our gaming, which we obviously don't see at the moment, but I'm certainly will over the longer term. . So our goal is really to make sure that we are consistently running the business as best we can from a lifetime value to cost per acquisition perspective. So increased retention, increased CPA, increase handle per customer. That's the way we run the business. That has resulted in a declining burn over time, which is in each quarter has sequentially gone by, as we told you it would. That burn could go up modestly with the launch of Massachusetts because we will do some user acquisition. I don't think we'll ever be back in the position that we were in at the launch of last NFL season. We've learned a lot in terms of which marketing channels work and which don't. But the business is -- they're really executing in that portion of our business, and we're watching the market very, very closely. We'll be in Massachusetts day one.
David Katz:
And if I can just follow up, does the promotional landscape that you noted, enable you to consider going back to other states where you don't have a land-based presence or regrowing the business? Or should we really just be thinking about Massachusetts for the moment?
Craig Billings:
Well, we are continuing to launch in additional states, and we're continuing to set the foundation in place to grow that business over time as the TAM grows and as our business grows. But Massachusetts, obviously, for obvious reasons, we have the land-based presence there. You've seen market share from fellow market participants in places where they have brick-and-mortar presence, and it obviously warrants prioritizing Massachusetts.
Operator:
Our next caller is Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. You may go ahead sir.
Dan Politzer:
I just wanted to follow up on Las Vegas. Obviously, margins were really strong in the quarter. I think your gaming mix at this point is back to 2019 levels. So now that mix is basically normalized. Is there any reason to think that you wouldn't be able to sustain margins in that high 30% range going forward?
Craig Billings:
Well, look, we generated operating leverage all over the building over the course of really the past three or so quarters. And I'm incredibly proud of the team for doing that. If you look at our rates, if you look at what we've done in food and beverage, really every nook and cranny driven operating leverage. So what you're seeing is that really the culmination not of aggressively reducing FTEs or negatively impacting the customer experience but rather pricing. And so we go as -- with that in mind, we go as pricing is, right? And so I'm loath to pin a margin and forecast whether we can maintain a 40% margin, an incredibly healthy margin because what we won't do is gut staffing and degrade the customer experience to even if there is a modest recession. We just don't do that. We're thinking about our brand over a 20-year term, not over a quarter. So I'm allowed to pin a particular margin, but what I can tell you is that the team here is very appropriately managing staffing. We're probably down about 10% from pre-COVID levels. yet our customer satisfaction scores are up, and we are pricing our product appropriately based on the quality of product.
Dan Politzer:
And then just pivoting to Interactive. Obviously, you guys have become a lot more rational. The markets become more rational in terms of pricing and promotion and marketing. As we think about where we go from here as we go into football season in the back end of the year, how should we think about your burn rate relative to that 2Q number?
Craig Billings:
Well, what we have consistently said is that we'll be driving down the burn each quarter. Now Massachusetts, as I mentioned earlier, I think, to David's question, Massachusetts could change that. But I don't imagine it materially shifting. So it's really kind of immaterial in the grand scheme of things. And so I wouldn't -- I wouldn't spend a bunch of time and brand damage trying to forecast it. The trend should be down with the exception of a few quarters that we might do some user acquisition in Massachusetts as the market opens.
Operator:
Our next caller is Brandt Montour with Barclays. You may go ahead sir.
Brandt Montour:
So in Las Vegas, I was hoping you could just talk about international inbound visitation? And maybe walk us around the globe, where you think you have the most sort of mix during normal times? We obviously have our assumptions. But if you could just walk us around the globe and talk about where you think you're going to see upside near term, medium term, long term? And how much of upside we could sort of see here?
Craig Billings:
I'll start and then I'll pass it to Brian. Keep in mind there are a lot of potential international visitors that have been unable to visit. So we've been able -- we've been quite successful on the international front despite that, but that is a tailwind that we have. Brian, do you want to talk about mix and opportunities?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. We've definitely seen a pickup in the international clientele, both from the gaming and nongaming side of our business. Obviously, Canada and Mexico are the first ones that have popped up. We're seeing great traction in the U.K. now. In fact, just came out of a meeting with the LVCVA and the lift out of London is actually at 106% now of what it was in 2019 pre-COVID level. So it means U.K. is back. The biggest opportunity for us moving forward is obviously China. We're not seeing -- it's anemic at this point, and that's all what you all know out there. So right now, our biggest upside is China. We are seeing other Asian business come back, but not to the extent we'd like. So I'm optimistic about what's in the future, and we got a lot of upside, I think, at some point.
Brandt Montour:
And just if I could follow up on Macau. Maybe you could just give us an update on your thoughts around the retendering process, any sort of surprises or anything that you'd want to let us know about in an update?
Craig Billings:
I'll start, and then I'll ask Ian to provide his thoughts as well. Not really. I mean we understand and appreciate what Macau is trying to achieve, diversifying the market, both in terms of the geographic origin of visitors and their motivations to visit is not a process that happens overnight. In Vegas, it took many years, and it was a concerted effort by both government and business. We were instrumental in leading that change here in Vegas, and we will, of course, continue to play our part in Macau's journey to do the same. Ian anything you would add, in particular, on the tender requirements?
Ian Coughlan:
I think the rules that were issued and the time line, we're very clear. We have sought some minor factions and we're in a six-week process of crystallizing our responses, which will get submitted by all six operators on September 14. And then we go into a period of negotiation. And I think the government's intent is clearly before the end of the year to announce the successful operator.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Okay. Operator, we'll take one last question.
Operator:
And our final question comes from Robin Farley with UBS. You may go ahead..
Robin Farley:
Two things just to clarify that you've talked about it a little bit already. One was just for group for '23, what's your booked position or kind of room nights booked compared to 2019 at the moment for '23? It sounds like there was a lot of acceleration in the first half. I'm just wondering where that kind of you booked for '23.
Craig Billings:
Brian?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. We are ahead of both '19 and obviously '21 and we continue to pick up. We're not going to need to pick up much in the year for the year as we are focused on moving forward with actually a higher number. So we'll have -- we're hoping the highest number of group rooms we've ever had because of the expansion of the convention center we had a couple of years ago. So really starting to grow into that space and take advantage of it. It also allows us with a slightly larger base to yield a little bit better our rates as we move forward into the year. So all encouraging but certainly better than '19 and '21.
Robin Farley:
And then the other question is just on the Vegas margins. And I know you talked about maintaining, I guess, experience on all of that. How much of the margin increase do you think is sustainable? Because the -- I guess you said in the past on previous calls that you don't have as many open positions maybe as some other Vegas properties. But is there anything about the margin that you think is not sustainable? Or how would you sort of guide us to expect that?
Craig Billings:
Sure. we learned to run the business differently before COVID. We've talked about this before. And we completely reevaluated how we do that. And so we are running, I mentioned earlier on about 10% less FTEs than pre-COVID. And we're doing it in an absolute range of the market and stand our customer satisfaction scores are going up. So that's a real testament to the team. So I would consider that at this point, permanent. The operating leverage that we were able to obtain out of the business units, look, as you well know, room prices fluctuate with supply and demand. So you can have positive operating leverage -- deleveraging operating leverage in rooms in a week's notice. On the food and beverage side, I suspect some of it's sticky. I mean, inflation is what it is, and we've been able to drive a decent amount of operating leverage out of the food and beverage portion of the business. So it's a little bit of a mixed bag. But Robin, I guess what I would say is the FTE count is what it is.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Well, with that, we'll now close the call. Thank you, everyone, and we look forward to talking to you again next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
Thank you for participating on today's conference. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I would now like to turn the call over to Julie Cameron-Doe, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto, and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Julie, and afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. I would like to start by welcoming our new CFO, Julie, who you just heard from to the company and to her first earnings call with us. For those who don’t know Julie yet, I think you'll enjoy getting to know her. Welcome. Before we get to the specifics of the quarter, I want to take a moment to thank our outstanding team of 27,000 colleagues globally for their unrelenting focus on delivering the industry's best design, development and service. That dedication was again recently recognized by Forbes Travel Guide with 24 Five-Star Awards, the most of any independent hotel company in the world. Turning now to the quarter and starting in Las Vegas. The team at Wynn Las Vegas had another great quarter despite the impact of Omicron in January. The property generated $159 million of EBITDA with broad based strength across casino, hotel, food and beverage and retail, all well above pre-COVID levels. You may recall from the fourth quarter call that we expected the quarter to improve month-over-month and expected occupancy to reach the mid-80s in March. In fact, we actually hit 91% hotel occupancy in March which contributed to an all-time record EBITDA result during the month. Encouragingly, March strength has continued into Q2 and our forward bookings also show no signs of a slowdown with our booking pace at pre-COVID levels on substantially higher ADRs. Now everyone on the call knows that Las Vegas as a market has experienced a rapid rebound over the past years. We certainly have been a beneficiary of that. We're also benefiting from our own efforts in the past several years. Even during difficult times, we invested in our people, in our products. We opened Delilah, we completed a refresh of the lounges adjacent to the Lake of Dreams. We opened Casa Playa and we remodeled the Wind Tower rooms. We look at every inch of this market leading property and ask ourselves how can we make it better? How can we make it return more? It's a dedication to our craft that makes me incredibly proud and it's what drives enduring results. Turning to Boston, Encore had a strong quarter across the casino resulting in $55 million of EBITDA in Q1, again despite the impact of Omicron in January. As we also discussed on the Q4 call, we expected the quarter to improve progressively month-over-month and that's exactly what we experienced with EBITDA in March approximately 60% higher than January. That positive momentum has continued into Q2 with April EBITDA topping an already strong March. It's been a great deal of time during Q1 refining the plans for upcoming development projects across the street from the property. Design and planning for that project is on schedule. We're excited for our next phase of growth in Boston. In Macau, the market continued to experience subdued visitation during the first quarter, particularly in the back half of the quarter. And this has continued into Q2 with market wide GGR in April only reaching 11% of April 2019 levels. Our year-to-date results have reflected that enroll, drop and hotel occupancy. Encouragingly during periods where the market is accessible, we see demand return very rapidly with hotel occupancy in the 65% to 75% range during portions of the recent May holiday. Longer term, we remain excited about the prospects for Macau with so much latent demand in the region. The market is evolving and we are prepared to adapt and grow our businesses we embrace those changes. The concession process continues to move forward according to the pre-established timeline with the amended gaming law currently progressing through the legislative assembly. We continue to be pleased with the process and with the content of the amended law. At Wynn Interactive, we increased net gaming revenue by 23% sequentially despite materially lower user acquisition spent. The strategy we implemented late last year to manage the business with a long-term shareholder friendly view is working with our overall EBITDA burn rate declining to $31.5 million in Q1, better than the $40 million range we discussed on our last call. With the Massachusetts Senate passing a Sports Betting Bill several weeks ago and now in reconciliation with the house, we're looking forward to the potential for a significant catalyst for Wynn Bet in the Commonwealth. Lastly, we have moved quickly into design on our project in the UAE, and I grow more excited about the opportunity with each iteration of that design. The Island which is really a blank canvas for us presents amazing opportunities to do what we do best. From offshore large-scale water and light spectacles akin to the Lake of Dreams in Las Vegas, to a room product that takes advantage of the unique aspects of a beach side setting, I'm confident we are going to deliver something special to a market that is accustomed to paying a premium for luxury experiences. With that, I will now turn it over to Julie, to run through some additional details from the quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Thank you, Craig. First of all, it's a privilege to be here and I'm delighted to be working with Craig again as well as with his talented team. Turning back to the business. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $159.4 million of adjusted property EBITDA, on $441.2 million of operating revenue during the quarter. Overall, our hotel occupancy was 77% in the quarter, with 62% occupancy in January, improving to 91% in March. Importantly, we've stayed true to our luxury brand and continue to compete on quality of product and service experience with our overall ADR reaching $432 during Q1 2022, 28% above Q1 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad based strength across F&B and retail, which were also well above pre-pandemic levels. In the casino, our Q1 2022 slot handle was 49% of Q1 2019 levels, and our table drops was 36% of our Q1 2019 levels, despite still suppressed international play due to COVID related travel challenges. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs, without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 36.1% in the quarter. This was up 1,100 basis points compared to Q1 2019 on a hold-adjusted basis. OpEx excluding gaming tax per day was $3 million in Q1 2022, approximately $160,000 per day below Q1 2019 levels due to lower headcount and broad-based cost efficiencies in areas that do not impact the guest experience. We remain committed to maintaining a cost structure that appropriately balances margins and our exacting service standards. In Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $55.2 million in Q1 2022 with EBITDA margin of 29%, driven by strength across the casino in both slots and tables. Consistent with our regional peers, Omicron along with bad weather, temporarily disrupted our performance at Encore Boston Harbor in January. But as Craig noted earlier, we exited the quarter generating EBITDA in March that was 60% above January. We've remained very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1 million in Q1 2022. This was a decrease of over 20% Compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019, and flat relative to Q4 2021. Looking ahead, as we noted last quarter, we expect OpEx to increase modestly due to higher payroll related to contractual labor agreements coming into effect in Q2, which will add around $45,000 per day to our OpEx space. We are well-positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow the top line over time. Our Macau operations delivered an EBITDA loss of $5.5 million in the quarter on $298.4 million of operating revenue, as the COVID situation in the region has continued to suppress demand. While business in Q1 was challenging, we remain disciplined on cost and CapEx, a prudent approach which positions us to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time. Our OpEx excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.1 million per day in Q1, a decrease compared to $2.2 million in Q4 2021, excluding non-recurring items. Turning to Wynn Interactive. In Q1, the business generated approximately $727 million in total turnover. Top line growth combined with decreases in marketing spend and other OpEx drove an improvement in our EBITDA burn rate to $31.5 million in Q1 2022 from $79.4 million in Q4 2021. Turning to the balance sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of $3.4 billion as of March 31. This was comprised of $1.5 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau, and $1.9 billion in the U.S. Pro forma for the sale leaseback transaction we announced in February, we have approximately $5 billion of consolidated global cash and liquidity. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $96 million, primarily related to the Wynn Las Vegas room remodel and the theater renovation. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Carlos Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Carlos Santarelli:
Hey, guys. Good afternoon and thank you for the remarks. Craig, Julie, whoever wants to kind of handle, I was wondering [technical difficulty] Las Vegas, especially on the room side have been incredibly strong. Can you guys talk a little bit about how from an ADR comparison perspective relative to kind of the first quarter of '19 period? The cash versus comp mix has changed?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Brian, do you want to take that one?
Brian Gullbrants:
Yes, sure. We really -- if you look at the Omicron wave really impacted our first quarter, specifically in January, we've also had a higher group mix, which previously contracted rates as adjusted the rate and impacted the rate slightly. But our March ADR has come roaring back and it's certainly above '19 levels. So there really hasn't been much of a macro impact. With respect to '19, we continue to grow rates significantly. And as far as volumes, we're right on pace with '19 volumes.
Craig Billings:
And the cash versus comp mix, it's not really a material indicate -- a material driver, Carlos, of the change that you're seeing in ADR. The quality of growth in cash ADRs has been very, very substantial. And in fact, as Brian mentioned, the slight ADR dip that we had in the quarter versus Q4 '21, some of that actually has to do with group business coming back, which as we talked about before, that comes back at rates that were contracted some time ago.
Carlos Santarelli:
Right. Craig, and to the point I was actually kind of moving towards or driving at, just in terms of kind of the customer that you're seeing and kind of cash comp mix speaks to it. But is it still like kind of as it was, which is kind of the same customer from 2019 is spending more? Or are you starting to see kind of different channels, different customers that are coming in and kind of contributing to the mix? And maybe those customers weren't previously in your loyalty program and not necessarily previously casino guests?
Craig Billings:
Yes, it's a good question. I guess what I would say is this. Besides the obvious shift in international mix, because of COVID, what we've seen is very strong domestic casino growth. We've seen that for a few different reasons. One is market wide growth, as I alluded to in my prepared remarks. The other is we spent much of 2019 reconstituting both our database strategy and our loyalty program and relaunching that loyalty programs. So if you look at the Vegas statistics, we've taken share in casinos since 2019. And that is certainly showing up in room mix and quality room mix. And then the last thing I would say is that the cash, leisure and transient customer is also very, very strong relative to '19. But that's not really a mix shift point.
Carlos Santarelli:
Understood. Thank you, guys.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Carlos.
Operator:
Our next question is from Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Craig Billings:
Hey, Joe.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Hello, Julie. I have a similar question to Carlos on room rates on the Las Vegas. Can you talk about the group mix in the 1Q and the anticipated group mix for the balance of the year? And kind of where I'm going with this, Craig is, as group becomes a bigger, presumably a bigger proportion of the total for the rest of 2022, does that have an impact on how you can yield on an overall blended rate basis for the portfolio, given some of the group that might be coming back from years prior at contractually lower than market rate right now in the last three quarters, all kind of round up for the third quarter of '22, I mean, you're at $400 ADR, or above. Is that sustainable, if you have a higher proportion of group mix?
Craig Billings:
I'll start and then I'll ask, Brian, to comment as well. So certainly it gives us the ability to yield. And it's also important to note that a decent chunk of our group business at this point in a shorter booking window than it historically has been, which obviously gives us the opportunity to price that much, much closer to today's ADRs than historical ADRs. Brian, do you want to talk about pacing -- Q1 and pacing?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. We've really continued to improve pacing. In fact, right now, we're actually pacing above '19 levels on the group side. We had a little bit of a low with Q1 in booking pace because of the short-term impact of Omicron. But it has come roaring back. And now we have I think, substantial pricing opportunities as we move forward in the other segments due to the strong base. In fact, one of the strongest bases we've ever seen.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then my final question is, can you talk about CapEx for the rest of the year in the U.S., and overall, including Macau?
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Sure. Hi there. I will take that. It's Julie here. So as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we spent $96 million in the quarter, which was primarily in Las Vegas on the room remodel and the renovation of the theater. We've got about $50 million to $60 million left on the room remodel and that should complete in June. We've got around $55 million to $65 million to come on the theater renovation. And that should open in the fall. We're really excited about the show and we expect it to be a great revenue driver in the fourth quarter. In addition, in terms of maintenance CapEx, we're looking at around the $75 million to $85 million annually in Vegas, and $25 million to $35 million annually in Boston. And that's really the maintenance CapEx. In terms of Macau, I mentioned in my prepared remarks, our prudent approach in Macau to OpEx and CapEx, given the operating environment there. And so what that means from a maintenance CapEx perspective is we're looking at approximately $10 million per quarter across both properties. We'd see that returning back to normal levels as the market comes back there.
Joe Greff:
Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Joe.
Operator:
Our next question is from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Good afternoon, everyone. And, Julie, welcome to the call. My question would just be about margins, if we could start there. Thinking about the domestic properties, obviously, it seems like at both Las Vegas and Boston, you saw material sequential improvement. Can you just help us think about margin leverage you were able to see your drive as the quarter progressed? I mean maybe not specific numbers, but just directionally, did those exit rates were those on par with or materially better than what kind of the quarter as a whole did? Just to give us a sense of kind of how to think about the balance of the year or at least the second quarter.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Shaun, thanks a lot. I'll take that. In Vegas, look, I mean -- and I think across the board, you'll see we're running the business efficiently, and you will see permanent cost saves versus 2019 at any given revenue level. Where margins shake out in terms of specific levels, that's really going to depend on top line revenue and the mix of that revenue. And as I said, our costs are well controlled. Our SPAs [ph] are down meaningfully relative to revenue levels. And we're really well-positioned to continue to generate strong operating leverage in Las Vegas. So we've seen significant margin improvement since pre-COVID times. And we feel comfortable about that and our ability to continue to drive that operating leverage there. In Boston, you'll see the margin generated in Boston is really reflective of the earnings power of the business at these revenue levels. We mentioned January was impacted by Omicron. So obviously, we ended the quarter stronger than we started it. But we mentioned -- I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we are seeing some additional labor costs come through that will sort of impact that. So overall, we see -- we are pretty happy with the margin we are generating in Boston. And we think that's reflective of the current cost structure including the payroll increase at these revenue levels.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. And then as my follow-up, just if we could -- could you give us the latest thinking or parameters around how online piece or when Interactive should progress as we move through the year? Just what are the thoughts around losses. I know they actually materially -- they came in materially below what we were expecting for the quarter and obviously, a very big sequential improvement. So just any guidelines or parameters there as the year progresses would be helpful.
Craig Billings:
Sure. So we've been pleased with the business over the course of the quarter. We really do believe in the industry longer term. Sports is the -- where the majority of the addressable market is today, Shaun. And it's also where a lot of the irrational behavior is taking place, though. I will say that our rationality seems to be ebbing as valuations have come down. So I think that's good for everybody. We've always viewed Massachusetts as an important boot strapping event for Wynn Bet. And if you look at some of our competitors and their market share in states where they have a physical presence, it's clear that bricks and mortar is an advantage. So with a bill in reconciliation between the House and the Senate in Mass now, we're preparing to be there day one, and that will be an important event for the business. With Massachusetts looming, it's difficult for me to give you a sense for what the burn rate over the remainder of the year will be. But I would say in the absence of Massachusetts, the burn will be at or below the quarter that we just experienced.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Got it.
Operator:
Next question is from David Katz from Jefferies. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Cassandra Lee:
Hi. This is Cassandra. I'm asking on behalf of David. Thank you for taking my question. If we could expand on the Wynn Interactive question a little bit more with irrational -- irrationality ebbing as you described. Where do you think this business could ultimately be? Is there any long-term kind of market share target or EBITDA target?
Craig Billings:
Yes. Thank you for the question. So this is really a business of building player cohorts, right? Every day, you're out acquiring customers. And you build those player cohorts. Those player cohorts age out over time, and they deliver EBITDA to you. So what we're focused on is continuing to build our player base and age those -- that player base out and ultimately drive operating leverage out of the business and build the business. The next step for us in light of real uncertainty in the market with respect to user acquisition behavior is to get to the EBITDA breakeven point. And then longer term, there's really two primary catalysts for us. The first is Massachusetts, which, as I mentioned, is hopefully pending with a bill that we anticipate will be signed by the governor if it emerges from the reconciliation process. And then of course, any additional online gaming states where we feel like we have a distinct advantage based on brand. So it's really too early to talk about market share targets or EBITDA targets. I think the focus for us is recognizing the ultimate potential total addressable market, our position in that market and reaching that total addressable market in a prudent way that is ultimately shareholder friendly. So stay tuned.
Cassandra Lee:
Got it. Thank you. And if I may have a quick follow-up. Encore Boston Harbor, I know you've laid out a road map 3 years ago, and it's probably outdated. But where is that -- how is that property trending now versus kind of your expectations? And how should we think about return to the additional CapEx spend there?
Craig Billings:
Well, look, we opened that property and it opened initially very soft. And we went to work very, very quickly as we generally do to turn that property around. And with both Brian and Jenny's extremely good work, we've been very successful. So we're run rating in the mid-200s at this point. And we feel like that's quite an accomplishment in light of the environment certainly that we went through during COVID. The next stage for growth in that business is really two things
Cassandra Lee:
Got it. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question is from Thomas Allen. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. On the UAE development, there have been a bunch of articles out the past few weeks kind of asking if maybe there'll be more competition around the market. What are you hearing on the ground there?
Craig Billings:
I can't -- Thomas, this is a great question. I can't really opine on what the other Emirates may do with regard to legalization. That's really in their hands. But I would point out that we not only compete but actually punch well above our weight in the most competitive market in the world, Las Vegas. So we don't really -- our underwrite of that opportunity presume that there would be competition, but I can't tell you that we know of any now. But it's not within my purview to forecast what the Emirates may do -- what the other inlets may do.
Thomas Allen:
Okay. Helpful. Thanks. And then just as we think out through the rest of the year, can you just help us think about any like calendar shifts or seasonality we should be thinking about, especially around Boston, right? Because we never really had a full year pre-COVID of what Boston would look like. I think we all presume that summer should be the busiest period. But just anything around seasonality and kind of timing shift we should think about as we think through the rest of the year? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Yes, sure. Actually, winter, if you look particularly at Q4, winter in Boston proved to be pretty substantial for us, right, because everyone is inside as opposed to out given the environment in winter in Boston. So we're still feeling out seasonality, to be honest, even in the midst of 2021. We were still a little bit touch and go with COVID. But certainly, we had a very, very strong winter there. And seasonality in Vegas is as you would expect. You know this market extremely well.
Thomas Allen:
All right. Thank you.
Operator:
Next question is from Robin Farley from UBS. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks. I don't know if you have said officially whether you would be interested in a New York property, in a New York casino license?
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Robin. Yes, we are interested in any gateway city that is conducive to the scale and quality of development that Wynn Resorts does. So we are interested in New York, and we are active there, but not in a position yet to talk about anything in particular.
Robin Farley:
Okay. If I could ask a follow-up on your comments on Vegas. And how should we think about kind of steady-state margin in Vegas? And I guess you opened a conference center, a convention center there during the pandemic. So when we think about margin relative to pre-COVID, I guess, what would you suggest for kind of steady state, including that conference center now?
Craig Billings:
Well, Julie, touched on this earlier in a very quantitative fashion. What I would say qualitatively is we're constantly balancing our FTE, our full-time employee count against our own standards and our customer standards for quality. And thus far, we've been very successful at doing that. So we announced -- I think it was this time last year, we announced some permanent cost saves, and we're adhering to those. At the same time, with the business really, really coming back, we are driving a tremendous amount of operating leverage, but with that comes some incremental variable costs. So we are not -- we don’t really guide -- you know us well, Robin. We don’t really guide to margins or forward-looking numbers. What I would say is that there is a chunk of cost savings that have occurred over the course of the past several years that are absolutely permanent. And beyond that, you'll see fluctuations based on variable costs, which means it's heavily, heavily tied to whatever revenue level we are doing.
Robin Farley:
Okay. And if I could ask one last clarification. On the group, you said it's pacing ahead of 2019 levels. When you look at what you have in 2023, I don't know if there was kind of some lost ground during Omicron is what we've heard from others. Do you have more group kind of cumulatively on the books for '23 than you did versus '19? Or is there still some kind of ground to be caught up?
Brian Gullbrants:
We're actually -- thank you. We are actually pacing ahead right now for '23 as well. So we feel very confident in where we are. Pending all that's going on in the world right now, everything is looking pretty good.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Operator, we will take one last question. Thanks.
Operator:
Our next question is from Stephen Grambling. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi. Thanks for taking the question. Maybe turning to Macau, I guess I'm curious, as you look at that market, what are some of the growth opportunities to consider there from an investment standpoint if the concession process goes through smoothly? And what are you thinking about for the VIP rooms, in particular? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Stephen. I'll start, and then I'll ask Ian to comment as well. I said this on the last call, Macau is really the most fascinating aspect of our portfolio right now. And the market -- the equity markets obviously aren't appreciating that, but that's fine. That happens from time-to-time. We started a journey towards being a very, very good, very aggressive mass marketer with the opening of Palace. And we are pretty good at it. If you look back at '19, some 80% plus of our EBITDA in Macau came from sources other than VIP. And so we're really proud of that. So we feel very well equipped to compete just in general with the reopening of the market. The market obviously is going to reopen as a more mass-centric market and with the best product and the best service in the market. We feel good about our ability to compete. What I find fascinating is we've seen throughout the course of COVID, we've seen new customers come to Macau, different customer motivations than perhaps historically we've seen, shopping motivation, leisure motivation, things like that. Part of the reason that that's the case is because Hong Kong hasn't been accessible. And that really piques our interest when we think about what the future development of Macau might be from a non-gaming perspective. Now we are under no illusion that we are talking about a Las Vegas style nongaming market. It's just a very, very different dynamic there. But the ability to adapt and change our business as the market changes and adapts or even lead that, which we've historically done here in Las Vegas is something that I personally find both fascinating and a very, very interesting investment -- incremental investment opportunity. Ian, would you add anything?
Ian Coughlan:
Hi. Thanks, Craig. Hi, Stephen. We have two undeveloped land parcels at Wynn Palace totaling 11 acres. We also have another 1.5 acres in the existing property. So we have three opportunities to build very meaningful product offers for the future. We're in the process right now of determining what exactly will benefit Macau for the long-term. We are awaiting the tender documentation to see what government feels about what's required for the future, and we will blend our own needs with that. But there's great opportunity for us to expand our business considerably in Macau. We also, with our two existing properties being 15 years old and 5 years old, they're impeccably maintained. We've constantly reinvested in them. So we are ready when Macau bounces back and it will bounce back. It's just a matter of when we will be ready for that. And the long-term future of Macau, as Craig has pointed out, is exceptional.
Craig Billings:
And you -- sorry, Stephen, you also asked about junket space. So I -- we think about it differently at each of the two properties. At the downtown property, where I anticipate that -- where we anticipate that the core customer motivation will be gaming over the longer term, we have some prime real estate in the form of former junket space that we think will be incredibly competitive in mass. Palace is a little bit of a different story because we may have the opportunity to do some more unique things there, some longer-term more blue-sky thinking. We are obviously not making that investment now. But we certainly have the real estate to do it. And we'll take advantage of that when the time comes.
Stephen Grambling:
Maybe as one quick follow-up, if I may. Just there's been a lot of back and forth in the press about the lawsuits associated with VIP and who's responsible for what in the event of certain customer losses. I'm wondering if you could just shed some light on that any risk that we should be thinking through that may be outstanding or not? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Yes, sure. This is one of those topics. We have them every couple of calls, where the sell-side tends to really under-appreciate nuance [ph] and instead paints with a very, very broad brush. The reality is that we haven't accrued for any material exposure and each individual claim comes down to a really detailed analysis around clear proof of a deposit in your particular property, the statute of limitations on a claim in a number of other very, very nuanced legal points, we don't expect material exposure at this time.
Stephen Grambling:
Perfect. Thanks so much.
Craig Billings:
Got it.
Julie Cameron-Doe:
Okay. Well, with that, we will now close the call. Thank you, everyone, and we look forward to talking to you again next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2021 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded, if you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Vincent Zahn, Senior Vice President and Treasurer. Sir, you may begin.
Vincent Zahn:
Thank you, Michelle, and good afternoon everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billings and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto, and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Vince. Afternoon, everyone, thanks for joining us today. I'd like to start by saying that I'm genuinely honored to be speaking to you as CEO of Wynn Resorts. I joined Wynn in 2017, because I'd spent much of my career admiring the company for its dedication to its craft and its people. I'm excited to lead the company forward and I know that our best days are ahead of us. Before we talk about the fourth quarter, I'd like to give you some additional context around a couple of transactions that we've announced over the past few weeks. First, let's touch on the sale leaseback of our real estate at Encore Boston Harbor that we announced today. We’ve discussed the sale of real estate on past earnings calls and we've always maintained that we believe our valuation over any reasonable period of time reflects the value of our real estate. We believe that to be the case today. So why execute a sale leaseback? A sale leaseback is after all nothing more than a financing and capital structure decision. In our case, this transaction benefits our capital structure in a few different ways. First and foremost, it provides long-term capital to grow our business. In this case capital to deploy adjacent to Encore Boston Harbor in the construction of additional parking, and complimentary non-gaming amenities that will drive Encore Boston Harbor to even higher levels of performance and capital to deploy an attractive greenfield projects like our development in the UAE, which I will discuss in a moment. Second, it enables us to potentially retire near term debt with a higher cost of capital than the lease. I would note here that this sale leaseback transaction was executed at 17 times rent, for a 5.9% cap rate, a record for regional gaming assets by some two turns, and an attractive long-term cost of capital. Third, it brings a new partner into our capital structure. Sumit and the team at Realty Income have been great partners in executing this transaction. And I would note that there are a number of highly bespoke terms in the lease that reflect our longer term goals. These terms were only achievable due to the unique way that Realty Income is structured and their willingness to engage and align this transaction with our goals. Overall, this transaction gives us a lot of additional financial flexibility, the transaction will close near the end of the year. Some of you may ask, What about Wynn Las Vegas? In response to that, I would note a few important points. First, Las Vegas is a very different market when compared to regional markets. Potential operational deleveraging in an economic downturn is more extreme as we saw in 2009. And the need for continuous and sizeable reinvestment in order to stay relevant is high. As many of you know, it is fundamental to us that we maintain consistent service levels and CapEx throughout the business cycle. And I never want us to be in a position where in the midst of a downturn, we have to choose between our world-class service and escrowing rent, or between paying rents and investing in our property. In fact, our 2021 results speak to the power of our proprietors mindset, with a host of new investments bearing fruit, and with our team and tech despite COVID, we continue to take market share and delivered the property's highest ever annual EBITDA. Further, the breakage costs related to a sale leaseback of Wynn Las Vegas would be significant. Beyond the tax leakage our capital structure in the U.S. has bond financing at both Wynn Las Vegas and a holding company above it. A sale of our Las Vegas real estate would trigger an acceleration of that debt, driving over $600 million in breakage. For now, we believe we will deliver far more long-term shareholder value by continuing to own our real estate in Las Vegas. And I am confident our equity valuation will continue to reflect that. Let's turn to our announcement regarding an integrated resort development in the UAE. We're thrilled about this project which will further diversify our business while extending our brand into the Middle East and Europe. I'm sure all of you are familiar with the UAE and with Dubai in particular. It's a dynamic country and we are proud to have the opportunity to deliver our exceptional hospitality there. Ras al-Khaimah is about 45 minutes North of the Dubai airport via a first-class multilane highway. The location on Marjan Island is stunning and will be a great setting for our resort. I do want to provide some clarity on a topic I have seen in a number of analyst notes and media reports regarding the project. In any new jurisdiction, there are three things that need to happen to have an integrated resort with gaming. The first is enabling legislation is gaming legal? The second is regulation, how will gaming be conducted? The third is licensure, who can operate a gaming establishment? With respect to this project, no further enabling legislation is required. We're not looking at a multiyear process for legalization like we have seen in some other markets. Regulations are well advanced, having been modeled on those of Singapore and the United States. The tax rate and license structure are very reasonable. And finally, with the regulatory framework taking shape and the regulator in place, we will be licensed to conduct gaming in Ras al-Khaimah. In other words, where we go with these projects. We're commencing master planning now and will begin mobilizing architecture and design in due course. I expect our ultimate design will be one or more iconic buildings that both take advantage of the pristine beach location and also show respect for the unique cultural aspects of the region. We're big believers in the potential for Ras al-Khaimah to be an amazing tourism and hospitality destination. Lastly, I would point out that this is the first transaction where Wynn Resorts is being paid for its know-how and service excellence via a management agreement. I expect it to provide a very high return on invested capital. We have a lot happening around here and I'm personally very excited about the future. Turning to the fourth quarter and starting in Las Vegas. The team at Wynn Las Vegas had an absolute stunner of the quarter. $186 million in EBITDA despite holding a bit low. Drop was strong, handle was strong, RevPAR was strong. I could go on and on. To us, the quarter's results are a further indication of the fact that our unrelenting focus on service and great product are resonating with premium customers who after being cooped up for 2020 and the first part of 2021 are traveling and spending again with a vengeance. As you've heard from some of our peers, January results in Las Vegas were impacted by Omicron, particularly in the group side. Encouragingly, forward bookings in January were very strong and February to date has accelerated further positioning us well into March and beyond. To give you some context, our hotel occupancy in January was 61%. And with the latest wave of COVID quickly receiving, we expect occupancy to increase to the mid-80s in March. As we increasingly distance ourselves from our competitors, we believe we have strong pricing power on rooms, food and beverage and nightlife during 2022. In Macau, the market continued to experience subdued visitation during the fourth quarter, and our results reflected that enroll, in drop and volatility a hold. Of course, you need only Chinese New Year to remind yourself of the power of that market and the pent-up demand for visitation. During the holiday period, turnover per day in our direct program was up nearly 175% from 2021 and down only 12% from Chinese New Year 2019. Encouragingly, we are seeing both strong spend per customer and significant new customer sign-ups in our direct business, highlighting the strength of our market-leading product and service offering. On the mass side, table drop was up 34% versus 2021, and that drop was 60% of our Chinese New Year 2019 levels. As we have seen before, when Macau is more accessible, demand snaps write back. Long-term, I remain incredibly enthusiastic about the prospects for Macau. Between the shift to higher-margin premium mass customers and to customers who have more motivations to visit than just gaming, the market is evolving, and we are prepared to adapt and grow our business as we embrace those changes. Further, the concession process continues in a methodical and logical manner with the amended gaming law currently sitting with the Assembly Committee. We continue to be pleased with the process and with the content of the amended law. Turning to Boston. Like Vegas, Encore had an unbelievable quarter in both gaming volumes and RevPAR, resulting in $68 million of EBITDA in Q4. The team in Boston has really done a tremendous job, particularly in the casino, but we're just getting started. Our next phase of growth in Boston will be driven by database growth, particularly growth outside of adjacent areas and through our upcoming expansion project across the street from the property. That expansion will see us add additional amenities and importantly, additional parking. Parking, particularly on weekends, remains a constraint for us. Though Encore is now run rating higher EBITDA than a number of strip properties, Encore still has a tremendous amount of growth ahead of it. Lastly, on Wynn Interactive, we generated about $785 million in turnover across casino and sports betting in Q4, which drove a 29% sequential increase in revenue. This was despite a meaningful curtailment in marketing spend in November and December. As you may recall on our Q3 call, we were very explicit about our view on the unsustainable nature of the current competitive environment in sports betting and we stated our intention to manage the business with a long-term shareholder-friendly view. To that end, we began shifting our user acquisition mix in early November, focusing only on proven performance marketing channels where we know we can achieve positive ROI on spend, particularly in casino. By doing this, we meaningfully reduced our overall burn rate and as our remaining brand advertising commitments handled off with the Super Bowl, I expect EBITDA burn levels to reduce even more drastically. Overall, we estimate Q1 2022 burn should be down some 60% from Q3 '21 to the $40 million range, and I expect Q2 2022 to be even lower. With that, I will now turn it over to Vince to run through some additional details on the quarter. Vince?
Vincent Zahn:
Thank you, Craig. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated a record $186.2 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $493.9 million of operating revenue during the quarter. We estimate low table hold negatively impacted EBITDA by approximately $10 million in the quarter. Overall, our hotel occupancy reached 86% in the quarter, with 91% occupancy on weekends. Importantly, we have stayed true to our luxury brand and continue to compete on quality of product and service experience, with our overall ADR reaching $441 during 4Q '21, 37% above 4Q '19 levels. Our other non-gaming businesses saw broad-based strength across F&B and retail, which were also well above pre-pandemic levels. In the casino, our 4Q '21 slot handle was 40% above 4Q '19 levels, and our table drop was 41% above 4Q '19 levels despite still suppressed international play due to COVID-related travel challenges. The team in Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering adjusted property EBITDA margin of 37.7% in the quarter or approximately 39% when adjusted for low table hold. This was unchanged sequentially and up 1,350 basis points compared to 4Q '19 on a hold-adjusted basis. OpEx per day was $3.18 million in 4Q '21, approximately $145,000 per day above 4Q '19 levels due to a combination of higher cost of goods on materially higher nongaming revenue along with special event costs, including the Kafka, DeChambeau [ph], Golf match, among others. We remain committed to maintaining a cost structure that appropriately balances margin and our exacting service standards in Las Vegas. In Boston, we generated another record quarter with adjusted property EBITDA of $68.2 million in 4Q '21, with an EBITDA margin of 33.4%. We saw broad-based strength across the casino combined with solid hotel performance, which was aided by a favorable calendar set up during the quarter. As Craig noted, regarding in Las Vegas and consistent with some of our regional peers, Omicron along with bad weather temporarily disrupted our performance at EVH in January. Encouragingly, we have already seen signs of improvement in the business as case counts have decreased across the region. At EVH, we remained very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day of $1 million in 4Q '21, excluding a $2 million nonrecurring accrual reversal. This was a decrease of over 20% compared to $1.3 million per day in 4Q '19 and a modest increase relative to $950,000 per day in 3Q '21, with the sequential increase driven by improved business volumes and increased operating hours, most notably from the hotel opening of full seven days per week beginning on September 1. Looking ahead, we expect OpEx to increase modestly due to higher payroll, stemming from onetime contractual labor agreements coming into effect in 2022, which will add around $45,000 per day to our OpEx base. We are well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as we continue to grow top line over time in Boston. Our Macau operations delivered an EBITDA loss of $25.9 million in the quarter on $325.7 million of operating revenue. Our EBITDA included a onetime bad debt provision that negatively impacted EBITDA by $24 million during the quarter. So we would have been essentially breakeven adjusting for that. While business in 4Q was challenging due to the evolving COVID situation, we remain disciplined on costs. Our OpEx, excluding gaming taxes and the onetime provision I noted, was approximately $2.2 million per day in the fourth quarter, essentially unchanged sequentially. We continue to be well positioned to drive strong operating leverage in Macau as our businesses recover. Turning to Wynn Interactive. In 4Q, the business generated approximately $785 million in total turnover, a 20% sequential increase relative to 3Q. Top line growth, combined with decreases in marketing spend and other OpEx, drove an improvement in our EBITDA burn rate to $79 million in 4Q '21 versus $104 million in 3Q '21. Since quarter end, we've continued to thoughtfully grow the business with launches in New York and Louisiana, and the initial reception from our customers has been very encouraging. Turning to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong, with global cash and revolver availability of $3.6 billion as of 12/31. In Macau, we had approximately $1.7 billion of available liquidity as of 12/31 In the U.S., we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.9 billion at 12/31. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $78 million, and we remain prudent with respect to CapEx while we gain further confidence in the recovery. With that, Michelle, we will now open the call to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlos Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead, sir.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thanks Craig and thanks Vince for all the color. Guys, if I could, just Vince, you talked about it a little about with the provision in the quarter in Macau, as you think about some of the new regulations around VIP and kind of around running that business, whether it's the share of handle as opposed to rev share agreements or the single junket model or the heavier reliance on VIP or direct VIP, I should say. Could you just talk a little bit about your strategy in navigating that, obviously, it will be a little bit more cumbersome from a balance sheet perspective? But how you guys are kind of thinking about that -- the outlook for that business run from a direct platform with some of the new requirements?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Carlo. I'll start, and then I'll ask Ian to give you his thoughts as well. As you know, the situation is evolving. The charge that we took in the quarter was frankly due to -- primarily due to historical junket position. So it really doesn't have anything to do with the business going forward. And as Vince mentioned, if you adjusted for that charge, we would have effectively been at breakeven in Macau. But the amended law in general, I think we are quite pleased with the various components of it. And the process, as we've said many times, has been impeccable in terms of administration. So the market is evolving. The market is moving quickly. We have the best product, the best service in the market. And so it's not surprising that we saw the activity on the direct side of the business over the course of Chinese New Year, we were pleased with it. Some of those were former junket players kind of indicating that there's been movement among the different groups of customers from junket to premium mass and junket to direct. We have a very, very prudent approach towards deployment of the balance sheet and I expect we will continue to take that approach. And to your last, I guess, to one of the subsets of your points, the use of agents, the use of referring parties, et cetera, that's all kind of happening in real time. So we are exploring all potential options in the market that are consistent with the amended gaming law and we'll figure it out in due course, but it's really too early to say. Ian, do you have any additional thoughts?
Ian Coughlan:
Just the disappearance of junket operators is a very recent development. So the only way we can actually judge the impact is pretty much over Chinese New Year when we saw meaningful growth in both premium mass and in our own direct VIP program, and we have seen that migration of former junket players. They have the desire to gamble. They have a desire to come to Macau. We have the best product in the market and the best service. So we feel very confident that we'll capture more than our fair market share.
Craig Billings:
And I would just add to that, Carlo, we've said before, I can't remember if it's been on calls or in other forums. By 2019, 80-something percent of our EBITDA was from sources other than VIP. So we started our journey of diversification really with the opening of Palace in 2016, and we have become very, very capable marketers over the course of the past five years. So I kind of look at Macau, and I see an amazing setup where investor expectations are pretty low. And we have the opportunity to kind of chart our own destiny. And frankly, that's what this company has done for years and years and years, particularly here in Las Vegas. So we're excited about a market that is higher margin premium mass and customers that may be traveling to Macau for motivations other than just purely gaming.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you Craig and thanks Ian. Just one follow-up as it pertains to the master lease for Encore Boston Harbor. First of all, Craig, is there any breakage on the 17%? And secondly, I see that the escalator is 1.75%. Are there any coverage ratios that trigger that one way or another?
Craig Billings:
Well, let me start, and then I'm going to ask Vince to give you some details. We've been pretty explicit about our views on sale leasebacks. And I think this one is unique because the lease, which you'll see attached to the 8-K and you can tear it apart yourself, is incredibly unique. It's very, very flexible and very friendly to us as the OpCo. And that was incredibly important to us. Because, as I said in my prepared remarks, I never want to choose between the landlord and our people. Our people are our service levels and our service levels are our brand. So you're going to find a whole bunch of unique things in that lease that I think many of them probably precedent setting. But to your specific questions, I'll ask Vince to chime in.
Vincent Zahn:
And Carlo, do you mean debt breakage costs?
Carlo Santarelli:
Yes. I'm sorry. I was more referring to kind of the way that Craig articulated the $600 million plus of breakage costs related to the debt in Las Vegas. Is there any leakage associated with the $1.7 billion cash proceeds of this transaction?
Vincent Zahn:
No, there isn't. It doesn't trigger any of those provisions that would cause the breakage and call us and force us to call the debt. So the answer is no to that. Total transaction costs should be somewhere in the $50 million range. So net proceeds will be $1.65 billion. As far as it relates to the escalator, there are no coverage provisions on the escalator. It's 1.75% for the first 10 years. Then after at least year 11 and beyond, it's the greater of CPI or 1.75%, and that's capped at 2.5%. And you can go look at some of the lease comps, particularly in Las Vegas and see how favorably that package compares. There are no minimum CapEx requirements, which was very important to us. So those are kind of some of the high-level details of the lease, Carlo.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you very much, guys.
Operator:
Our next caller is Joe Greff with JPMorgan. You may go ahead.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon guys. Craig, Vince, how are you thinking about utilizing the, I guess, the $1.65 billion of net proceeds coming in from the sale of EBH?
Craig Billings:
Sure. It's important. I want to remind you, it doesn't close until the end of the year. So we'll be in a different position at the end of the year vis-a-vis Macau. Our hope is that Vegas and Boston continue to hum along. So with that caveat, a sale-leaseback really isn't any different than raising debt in the bond market. So if we were raising debt in the bond markets at this rate today, we would think about it is how do we grow our business? And are there more expensive or more restrictive pieces of debt that we should be taking out? So we'll see how things evolve over the course of the year, but that's how we think about it today. We've got a room remodel in Vegas. We've got a show in Vegas. We've got an expansion in and around on Encore Boston Harbor, and we have a really exciting project in the UAE that is kind of almost shovel ready. So across all of those, there's a whole bunch of great things we can do to drive incremental EBITDA. And then there are some expensive pieces of debt, including the bonds that we did when we, I think, reopened the high-yield market in the midst of COVID that would prove beneficial to shareholders as well.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then maybe can you comment on how you're thinking of potentially monetizing went interactive. Obviously, there was a press report where you guys are potentially looking to monetize that through a sale. Can you talk about the ways you're thinking of that business and how it can drive net equity value for you all Wynn in a very broad way for you?
Craig Billings:
Yes, sure. So first, we don't comment on market rumors or random press reports. We've been pretty -- we were pretty explicit on the third quarter call about not engaging in the unsustainable user acquisition blitz that has emerged, no pun intended this NFL season and that we would take a more measured approach. The I-gaming business, where we have actually seen pretty reasonable success, there's a logical place for us in that business longer term. Unfortunately, it's not a humongous TAM right now. Sports betting is the total addressable market and sports betting is where most of the irrational behavior is taking place. So we will generate shareholder value from that business. I think the way we think about it is we're going to be really focused on the user acquisition flip side. We're going to be focused on the product side, and we're going to see how the end markets really behave over the course of the next several quarters, and then we'll figure it out accordingly.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then one final thing, Craig, you talked about the additional investments in Las Vegas and potentially a EBH. Can you talk about what's committed in terms of CapEx for 2022?
Vincent Zahn:
Yes, sure. I'll take that, Joe. So in Vegas, we're pretty much back to regular maintenance levels of $75 million to $85 million per year in Vegas. Beyond core maintenance, Craig noted that we are reconstructing the rev data putting a new show in place. That has a budget of $120 million, of which about $30 million spent through 12/31. The rest against -- the remainder will get spent ratably in 2022. We're renovating the Wynn Las Vegas tower rooms with a total budget of $220 million, of which $120 million has been spent. Same thing there. The balance will be spent over the remainder of 2022. In Boston, the property is essentially new. So maintenance will only be in the $20 million range there, mostly repositioning of nongaming amenities at that property. We could have some modest CapEx towards the end of the year for the Easter Broadway expansion that Craig noted. The budget there is going to be somewhere in the $200 million to $250 million range, and that will basically be spent under a normal CapEx S-curve over '23 and '24. And in Macau, we're still being very judicious with CapEx until the return of stronger demand levels there. So core maintenance is expected to total $60 million to $80 million for 2022 on a property combined basis.
Craig Billings:
And Joe, just one other point on the Boston CapEx. One of the unique aspects of the lease that we entered into is the ability to put some additional rents into the lease really upon completion of that expansion at a specified cap rate, which will in turn allow us to more than get our money back.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thank you guys.
Operator:
Our next caller is Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. You may go ahead sir.
Thomas Allen:
Thanks for taking me. Just on the Macau, prior to COVID hitting you were running at 99% occupancy, for your rooms, I think, running at over 90% comps. Can you just talk to us how you're thinking about that on a go-forward basis?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start, and then I'll ask Ian to provide some thoughts as well. I mean the market is -- I think the fundamental question that you have to ask yourself is over the course of the next five years, 10 years, will a leisure business emerge in Macau? And if so, does that mean that you have a yielding mechanism like we do in Vegas to yield cash rims. I don't think we are close to that yet. I think we would assume that we're going to continue to be a comp room business. We don't have a ton of rooms relative to some others in the market. So we have a lot of opportunity to yield those rooms. Ian, do you have any additional thoughts?
Ian Coughlan:
What we've seen in the periods when we've actually been reasonably open to Chinese consumers when they've been able to travel, is there is huge pent-up demand at all levels of the business. And there's cash business out there as well. There's family travel that's increased. We're also seeing an increase in millennial travel. And we're seeing new customers come to Macau. We've seen that again over Chinese New Year. So during the week when we have rooms available at times, there is cash business and rich cash business from affluential customers come. So we feel that we can fill rooms when they're available.
Thomas Allen:
Alright, thank you. And then just on the UAE project. I mean you guys know this is kind of the first of its kind where you're being hired for kind of management expertise and development expertise. Do you think there's a lot of other opportunities? How are you thinking about that?
Craig Billings:
Yes, it's a great question, Thomas. As we think about logical adjacencies for our business, we think about everything under the sun. We're constantly thinking about ways to increase shareholder value. I think it is a pivotal moment. Can it be replicated? We'll see. But it's an important moment where we're entering into really a 4-season style management deal for the creation of an integrated resort. Is that extendable to smaller properties in gateway cities? It may be. That's something that we'll explore.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you.
Operator:
Our next caller is Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. You may go ahead sir.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi, thanks. Maybe as a follow-up to that. I guess, how are you generally thinking about underwriting the ROIC in a market like the UAE as you think about the structure of this transaction or potential structure? And can you give any kind of color on what you foresee from a customer standpoint and looking at your global database, maybe what spending patterns have emerged in that market?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start with the latter and then move to the former. So think about it this way. When we open that property, 95% of the world's population will be within an 8-hour flight of a Wynn resource property. I don't think anybody else can say that. So this is not only opportunity to leverage our pre-existing database, but it's an opportunity to grow database. The Dubai Airport has some 80-plus million passengers passing through it every year. I mean, it's astounding. The UAE is already a substantial destination for not only the region but for Europe, for Brits, for Germans, for really folks from all over the place. So this is a significant customer acquisition opportunity and a really material extension of our brand. In terms of how do we underwrite it, -- it's a $2 billion project. My presumption is that it will be 50% debt, 50% equity, of which we will be 25% to 40%. And then obviously, we have the management contract sitting on top of it. The land is astounding, beautiful and like I said before, nearly shovel-ready. So execution risk from a construction perspective, as we see it, is pretty low.
Stephen Grambling:
That's helpful. And I know you don't like to give a lot of guidance, but maybe looking to Las Vegas and looking at the fourth quarter to EBITDA run rate. I guess what are some of the biggest puts and takes to think about in the year ahead across either various customer cohorts or spending categories that could influence both margins and ultimately EBITDA from here?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I'll start, and then I'll ask Brian to provide you with his thoughts. Yes, Q4 was definitely a range. It was impressive. The team did really an incredible job. If you look back over the course of '21, we saw pretty substantial leisure and gaming demand. I think that's consistent across the market, although I would say we have continued to distinguish ourselves from a service and quality perspective. And -- but there are also a lot of customer types that weren't around, right? International play wasn't around. Group and convention was quite spotty and very concentrated into a couple of periods, one of which was, in fact, the fourth quarter. So that obviously helped the fourth quarter. January, if you look forward, January was, as we noted, soft because of Omicron. We're already seeing the demand snap back from that. Brian, do you want to comment on kind of the structure of that demand or any additional thoughts you might have.
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure Craig, thanks. I think overall our booking pace is back to pre-pandemic 2019 levels now. And we have a built-in rate premium that's also sustainable as we see it. And on the group side, the group lead volume is now actually exceeding 2019 levels. So I think people want to meet again and we're very bullish on the future. Things are pacing ahead and we're looking really solid.
Stephen Grambling:
That's all super helpful. Look forward to seeing the continuing perhaps resuming Macau.
Operator:
Our next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead sir.
David Katz:
Apologies. Thanks for including me. I wanted to just ask about the thought process around deciding to sell the real estate in Boston. Obviously, the terms that you've achieved are compelling. But in the context of other opportunities there may have been to divest assets such as excess land on the strip, et cetera. How did you sort of think about that choice versus maybe some others and the land being one example, maybe there are others that we could discuss?
Craig Billings:
Sure. I guess, first, I would say there's really two factors that come into play. The first is cost of capital, which is an important consideration, but not the only one. The second is the operational structure of the asset and how conducive it is to operating with lease. And so in Boston, in the transaction in Boston, we were able to achieve both an attractive cost of capital, and that asset is based on the stability of revenues in the regional markets. And the much lighter CapEx burden relative to say Las Vegas made it a logical financing source for us, which is really what it was. We weren't in the market just to raise cash, right? This was a cost of capital question first and foremost. So we're not going to be in the market with land or any other ancillary assets around the property -- in the properties anytime soon.
David Katz:
Understood. And just for our own information. Since you talked about the buildings in Las Vegas in your prepared remarks, do the golf course or the other excess land across the street would they have considerable leakage as well? Or had you not looked into that at this point?
Craig Billings:
Well, I'm not -- I know we know every no can potential source of leakage, but we're not interested in selling land. We have a 20-year view -- 20-plus year view when we think about Las Vegas. We love our portfolio here. And all of that land has real long-term value to shareholders. So it's not even worth talking about, David.
David Katz:
Okay, fair enough. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next caller is Dan Politzer from Wells Fargo.
Dan Politzer:
Hey good afternoon guys and thanks for taking my question. So in Vegas, the OpEx per day for the quarter, I believe you said was $3.18 million, which is a little bit higher than the third quarter. How should we think about this kind of evolving over time given the changes in mix that probably occurs over the next year or two?
Craig Billings:
Let me start, and then I'll ask Vince to provide some of the details. So Vegas, we are down from an FTE perspective. We talked earlier in 2021 about our commitment to enact certain permanent cost saves really in how we run and manage the business day to day. So we've been very disciplined on head count, and we've been -- we stayed true to our prior commitments. Q4, we had some incremental cost of goods. You can see it in the revenue numbers. It kind of goes part and parcel with the revenue numbers that you saw. And then we had some onetime costs really around special events that we had in the quarter, New Year's and some other events that impacted costs during the period. So we're not prepared to guide you to a specific margin or specific OpEx per day at this point. What I would say is at any given revenue level, we will be running margins higher than we did in 2019. Vince, do you have anything you want to add to that?
Vincent Zahn:
Yes. The only thing I would add is just to kind of pay attention to the seasonality, right? As we add seasonal amenities in 2Q into 3Q, there's some seasonality to OpEx that obviously comes with additional revenue streams. Apart from that, I think Craig covered it really well.
Dan Politzer:
Got it. Just moving to Macau. How do you think about shift of your customer base from VIP into the premium mass or direct VIP product? Is there a certain percentage that you look or think is a reasonable level to recapture? And how is it working in terms of the margin dynamics? Is it like you capture half -- help the customers at 2x margin, so you end up being kind of on the same level? Or how do you think about those moving pieces in terms of the margin mix and revenues?
Craig Billings:
Well, I guess, first of all, when you think about the customer motivation and demand a gaming customer in Macau is a gaming customer, gaming customer. It's really just a question of how they're choosing to play, whether they're playing with role or they're playing with cash. We have the best kit in the market. We have the best service in the market. So we like our odds longer term in Macau. As I mentioned earlier, we started a journey of becoming very adept to mass marketers with the opening of Palace in '16. By the time we got to '19, more than 80% of our EBITDA was derived from sources other than VIP. So we already have what it takes to be competitive with respect to the mass market. And obviously, VIP direct. Ian, would you add anything to that?
Ian Coughlan:
You're completely right, Craig.
Dan Politzer:
All right. Thanks so much guys. Appreciate the color.
Brian Gullbrants:
Michelle, we’re going to take one final question.
Operator:
And our final question comes from John DeCree from CBRE.
John DeCree:
Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. Maybe to stick with Macau. I think in the prepared remarks, you've mentioned that you're still being prudent on capital spend until demand returns. When demand returns, is there anything earmarked for repositioning or any CapEx that you have planned, given it's going to be 18 months to two years since you saw real demand there? Is there anything you're thinking about in Macau?
Craig Billings:
Yes. We're always thinking about something. That's kind of who we are. So we have a number of things that we're looking at really in response to the evolution of the market across food and beverage, across the adjacent land. I guess the best I could say at this point is stay tuned.
John DeCree:
Fair enough. Thanks Craig. And maybe one more kind of further-looking question, plenty on plate right now, but other potential projects that you're looking at in a meaningful way? And I guess I ask in the context with New York picking up some momentum, a pretty large opportunity there. Is that something that would be on your radar or any other maybe larger capital-intensive projects that you'd give a good look at?
Craig Billings:
Yes. We're interested in a number of jurisdictions. If it's a gateway city, if it's a limited number of licenses, if it has reasonable tax rates and reasonable regulations, we are interested in it. So everything is -- you follow New York carefully, everything is too early to really provide any concrete guidance at this point. But we're active in New York, we're active anywhere there's a material opportunity to deploy capital.
John DeCree:
Thanks Craig, that’s helpful. Appreciate all the color today.
Craig Billings:
All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us today. We look forward to talking to you next quarter. Have a great day.
Operator:
And thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may go ahead and disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Call. All participants are on a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto, and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig, and thank you all for joining us today. First, I would like to address my decision to leave the Company. I've been at Wynn for 20 years and been the CEO for the last 4, and I made a commitment in 2018 to this Company into the board of directors in what was likely one of the messiest transitions in corporate history, that I'd do everything I could to keep the culture, to make the -- to get the Company on firm footing and to ensure that we would emerge better than we were before. Now along that journey, as we were making lots of progress in getting things stable, we bumped into a pandemic, and that was the time really when Wynn was able to shine. We became the beacon in hospitality; people looked at us on what to do. We paid all of our staff during the shutdown. We invested in our culture. We knew that by doing those things and continuing to be exactly who we are, that it would pay off over the long term. Not just for our people and for our customers, but for our shareholders. I'd like to thank the unwavering commitment and support of the Board of Directors during these four years. After we made this decision, they did ask me if I would remain on the Wynn Macau board to ensure stability and to assist with the concession renewal process there, which I agreed to do through 2022, and also the Wynn Interactive board to make sure that we create lots of value for the Wynn Resort shareholders, which I also agreed to. I'm very happy to say that the board is 100% behind and has picked the exact right person to replace me as I transition out in Craig Billings. Craig has been my right-hand man for 5 years now. He has been through the good, the bad, all of it, and he knows what to do. He understands culture, he's not a guy that's going to build a big corporate infrastructure. He makes decisions fast and he feels the brand, and the Company really couldn't be in a better position going forward. In fact, if you look at that, I think the proof is in this quarter. If we just jumped to the results and get the business here in Las Vegas, we made a $183 million of EBITDA, and that's not a whole bunch of cost savings that are going to go away over time, again you sustain the margin, etc. Only $15 million to $18 million of that 183 came from cost-savings, the rest of it we're taking market share. Over the last 4 years, we've opened a 400,000 square foot convention facility. We built a new golf course. We have changed out 40 of our 60 retail stores to become the shopping destination. We restructured our clubs so that margins went from 7% to almost 30%. We've raised our prices in our hotels, seeing straight flow-through. Every area we're taking share, casino included. We are not only outpacing all of our results, but we're taking share from the market. I knew coming in that we needed to cater to a demographic that was in more the 30 to 50s on top of our current demographic in the baby boomer generation. We've opened lots of new restaurants. In fact, one of the new ones, Delilah, if you call right now, you can't get in until February. I've never seen anything like it, and while that's one restaurant, it's an example of all the changes that we've made that have really set the foundation for Wynn Las Vegas to take off like a rocket ship, and I think one of the most important aspects of a successful business is culture. People talk about that, but we all know in our business, only people make people happy, and if your employees believe that their future will be better because of the place they work, and that their employer is going to take care of them when times get tough, you've harnessed the power of the universe, and that's what we have going on right now. Look, I'll give an example. Hospitality is experiencing extreme labor shortages right now throughout North America, it's a fact people are talking about it, but not at Wynn. We had 4 open servers in our restaurants -- open positions last month. We had 1066 people apply. Sure, big tip job. You might expect that we had 22 open positions for our casino cleaners last month. They clean the bathrooms, the casino, the restaurants. They make the place sparkle. We had 2015 people apply for those 22 spots. That is the sign of a good business. That's when you know, you're going to win over the long term because your customers understand that loyalty and people want to be here, and so, I feel very good about where Wynn Las Vegas is in terms of its culture, its employees, the product, and it's future. Looking on for Boston Harbor, same thing. Record results $64 million of EBITDA, and we did the very similar that we did in Las Vegas during the shutdown was we've looked at things that weren't working. We had a buffet that was losing $12 million a year, so we ripped it out when we were shut down and we built probably the world's best sports bar that once Massachusetts legalizes sports betting, it'll be the best sports book on the east coast, hands-down. We put in new food and beverage offerings. We reconfigured the entire casino. We changed out our casino loyalty program and our database has been growing exponentially. We have over 418,000 people in the database, and at the trajectory that it's growing now, that's probably going to double over the next 2 years. So Encore Boston Harbor, again, is only at the beginning of its growth, and the North American assets really couldn't be in a better position. There was a little bit of concern that maybe the stimulus money or pent-up demand, etc. was causing some of this. That may be true for the third quarter and what we experienced in the summer, but it's certainly continuing. In October when Las Vegas had its best month on record, highest EBITDA, highest margin, and we held below our normal range. Same in Encore Boston Harbor. The group business is coming back. We've seen groups taking up over 30% of our room nights in August and September, and the way that we're running these facilities now, and the way that we're yielding and being unrelenting on price because people like the quality, the flow-through is happening. Just last weekend our average rate was $780 in Las Vegas and we're at 99% occupancy and that is continuing into the future because we're taking market share and Las Vegas itself is growing. Turning to Macau, we've had, as everyone in the market has had fits and starts there as to the business. But what has been very encouraging over the last month has been the consultation process with the government. It's been open. It's been transparent. It's been productive, and we feel very good about the future of Macau and our position in Macau. Looking at Wynn Interactive. We launched lots of new product this quarter that we're very proud of. We made great progress in Arizona with first-time depositors, and we're seeing good customer feedback and our retention is quite strong. However, the market is really not sustainable right now. Competitors are spending too much to get customers. The economics are just not something that we're going to participate in in the short term. While we built the brand, we launched the product in the third quarter; we're going to be focused on building a long-term business that's sustainable, that is not losing lots and lots of money. So we are shifting our strategy to think about the future, think about the long term, think about cash preservation, and we remain very confident that we'll create significant value for the Wynn Resort shareholders with our digital strategy. With that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Craig. Congratulations, Craig.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt,
Matt Maddox:
I'll let him go through some more details.
Craig Billings:
Thank you. Like everyone in the Company, I've admired your leadership over the course of the past 4 years. More than anyone, you know the dedication and talent at the thousands of folks who make up the Wynn team and I'm honored to have been asked to lead that team. Turning to the quarter, at Wynn Las Vegas we generated $183.4 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $476 million of operating revenue. Overall, our hotel occupancy reached 83% in the quarter with 93% occupancy on weekends. Importantly, we stayed true to our luxury brand and have resisted dropping rates with overall ADR reaching $392 during the 3rd quarter of '21, nearly 30% above Q3 2019 levels. Our other non-gaming business saw broad-based strength across F&B and retail, which was also well above pre -pandemic levels. In the casino, our Q3 '21 slot handle was 31% above Q3 2019 and table drop was 18% above Q3 '19, despite still suppressed international play due to COVID -related travel challenges. The team in Las Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering a record adjusted property EBITDA margin of 38.5% from the quarter. OpEx per day was 3 million in Q3 2021 approximately 250,000 per day below Q3 2019 levels. Despite the 19% increase in revenue. As new high-margin business like groups and convention return to the property, we expect OpEx to increase modestly, but we remain committed to maintaining the cost structure that appropriately balances margins and our exacting certain standards. In Boston, we generated another record quarter with adjusted property EBITDA of $64.6 million million in Q3 on a record EBITDA margin of $33.6 million. We've remained very disciplined on the cost side there too, with OpEx per day excluding a $3 million benefit from a few one-time items of $950,000 in Q3 '21, a decrease of over 25% compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 '19, and a modest increase relative to 2Q 21. Our Macau operations delivered $10.2 million of EBITDA in the quarter on $312 million of operating revenue. While business in the quarter was challenging due to the evolving COVID situation, we remain disciplined on costs. Our OpEx excluding gaming tax, and the reversal of certain performance-based incentive accruals in the third quarter was approximately $2.1 million per day. We continue to be well-positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers. Turning to Wynn Interactive, in Q3, the business generated approximately $645 million in total turnover, disproportionally weighted to September. In late August, we launched a number of key product improvements which have been well received by customers. On a normalized basis, Wynn Interactive is now run rating over $170 million of gross revenue. During the quarter and since we have achieved several other key milestones for the business, including launching day one in Arizona, where we drove over 26,000 first-time depositors through September 30th. Securing a number of additional market access agreements, obtaining a license to operate in the state of New York, and becoming an official sports betting partner of the NFL. While sports betting remains an exciting high-growth market and will potentially be a $30 billion to $40 billion TAM over time, the marketplace is proving to be very competitive with multiple operators deploying meaningful marketing dollars, driving high cost per acquisition, and significant customer bonus offers. In light of this dynamic, we are intentionally pivoting our approach to scaling. taking a more measured and long-term focus to grow healthy and sustainable business as Matt mentioned. Thus, we expect our Q3 and Q4 EBITDA burn driven heavily by our branding campaign and pre -opening user acquisition in Arizona will decline materially beginning in Q1 2022, as we focus on cost per acquisition that is commensurate with customer lifetime values. We continue to believe in our team, our product, and the longer-term opportunity, and there's certainly paths to grow our business in ways that create value for Wynn Resort shareholders. But the current combination of large-scale brand spend, performance marketing spend, and customer bonuses that we see in the market place does not drive unit economics that meet our return requirements. Turning to the Balance Sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of over $3.7 billion as of September 30th. In Macau, we had approximately $1.8 billion of available liquidity as of September 30th, and in the U.S. we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.9 billion as of September 30th. As previously announced during the quarter, Wynn Macau Limited entered into a new $1.5 billion senior unsecured revolving credit facility that matures in 2025. The arrangement includes broad participation by our group of supportive existing lenders, including local and international banks. Borrowing under the new facility along with $200 million of cash on hand, were used to refinance and retire our existing senior secured credit facility. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $103 million and we remain prudent with respect to CapEx while we gained further confidence in the recovery. As a reminder, we are limited in what we can say about Wynn Interactive due to the live S4 that we have on file. With that we'll now open up the call to Q&A. Operator.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey everyone, thank you and Matt, congratulations. Greg, congratulations as well. Guys, obviously, you spent some time talking about Wynn Interactive and fully appreciating that you can't say much given where you are in the process. The decision to pivot, is that something where as you think about the way the market is shaping up and what I would assume you deem as unprofitable cohorts of customers that are being acquired right now by others. Is that something that in your view changes in the next 6 to 9 months or is it something where you'll wait until you actually see kind of that change start to happen?
Craig Billings:
It's a great question, Carlo. As we've talked about before, we're really focused on lifetime value versus cost per acquisition, and when that ratio is favorable, we're more than happy to invest to drive long-term profitable growth. If you materially overshoot on CPA or offer non-economic promotions, then you can end up upside down on a customer pretty quickly, which obviously isn't very shareholder-friendly. In the current environment, there are certainly opportunities for us to do ROI positive acquisition. They absolutely exist. It's really a question of scale. If you're not trying to be aggressive and drive headline market share with large-scale brand spend, performance spend, hyper aggressive customer promos, there are absolutely opportunities to grow the business over the course of the longer-term.
Carlo Santarelli:
That's helpful. Thank you, Craig, and then Matt, maybe maybe this one's for you as you kind of talked about the consultation and some of the encouraging things that were coming out of those meetings. Do you have any sense coming out of there to the extent that you could share when you're starting to think about the next steps in the process and potentially some more visibility into that. Now the timeline of the process but maybe, some of the things that we should expect coming out of it.
Matt Maddox:
What I can tell you is when the government announced a consultative process, it was very structured at beginning timeline, and when the meetings we're going to be scheduled and everything happened exactly as they had laid out, and so we just been very happy with how open it's been and how constructive it's been, and I think that that is going to continue throughout '22 as Macau really focuses on the long-term health and stability which they have continued to say of the industry and of the region. So I can't give any specific dates or timeline, but what I can tell you is we're very confident in the process.
Carlo Santarelli:
That's great. Thank you both.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Carlo.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Joe Greff with JP Morgan. You may go ahead.
Q –Joe Greff:
Hello, everyone. Matt, congratulations, best of luck. It's been a long time, and Craig very happy for you, congratulations on your promotion.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Joe.
Joe Greff:
Matt, do you want to give any more description to the reason why you're stepping away now? I'm not sure the statement, the press release really kind of delved into that in great detail, and maybe there are reasons for that, and then my second question, Craig, I know you have opinions on casino real estate monetization. Given just the valuations we've seen in Las Vegas and elsewhere in regional casino markets, I was hoping you can give us your updated thoughts, with particular attention to EBH. Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Sure, Joe. Actually, there's nothing more to it than what I laid out at the beginning of this call. I have been here for 20 years. I was Steve Wynn's right-hand guy for a long time, and when that transition happened, I made the commitment that I was going to make sure this Company didn't lose what it was built on, which is excellent, service-driven and just being the best, and that's what I wanted to do. That's what I wanted to achieve, and we've done that. Now, the pandemic frankly elongated my program a little bit. Because when that head I realized, we don't need to lead through that and make sure that we come out better than ever. So it's really one of those, it's been 20 years. Exactly what I wanted to achieve, we've done, and I feel like the management team that's in place, the people that are in place, and where this Company is, that it's the right time for me to go do something else, which I'm quite excited about and Craig is the exact right person to step in. There's really nothing more to it. Before, I committed to 4 years, and that's my 4-year anniversary.
Craig Billings:
On the real estate side, Joe, you know our position. Our position is, if any, over any reasonable period of time, our evaluation appropriately reflects the value of our real estate, then we're always more more content to control that real estate and be able to invest in that real estate, and that hasn't changed. To the extent that it does change, then obviously we will have to consider what's in the best interest of shareholders.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. You may go ahead.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you, and I just want to reiterate congratulations to you both on, Matt, what's been a great career and Craig, congratulations on the new role.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks.
Thomas Allen:
So the U.S. results were really stellar. Back in mid-2019, you guys had set targets of $515 million for Vegas, and $275 million for Boston. Any updated thoughts around the longer-term outlook for those properties?
Matt Maddox:
Well, yeah, sure. I'll jump in and I think that given what we're seeing now, those estimates feel quite conservative, and I think it's pretty clear. What we achieved in Las Vegas was its market share taking and it's a restructure of the business. I think that we all sit around and thank our normalized margins are between 35 and 40 in this market, and so we didn't go out and cut a whole bunch of cost and slowly bring people back, trying to squeeze every last dollar. Now, we went out and got more customers, and I think that's going to continue in the same Encore Boston Harbor.
Craig Billings:
There isn't one piece of the business, Thomas, that we haven't touched and addressed and changed and adapted. So really these 2 assets are firing on all cylinders.
Thomas Allen:
All right. Thanks, and then just following up on the transition, any thoughts on the new CFO, and then Craig, are you going to still run Wynn Interactive? How are you thinking about that? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. We're fortunate at the Company that we have a reasonably deep bench at the corporate level, and we've hired some real talent on the Wynn Interactive side, so we'll be coming back to you soon with a revised management structure and an outlook, and we'll talk to you about it then. Stay tuned.
Thomas Allen:
All right. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. You may go ahead.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Good afternoon, everyone, and yeah, Matt, Craig, for my congratulations as well. Matt, it's been a long number of years, so look forward to hearing what's next on. Craig, I'd love to hit on a couple of comments, and I know there's only so much you can probably cover right now on Interactive. The comments just has been on CPA as I know you know this formula better than probably anyone else on this call. Can you talk about the prevailing level of what you're seeing out there because one challenge we, I think, all running to as analyst is the formula spits out a little bit of whatever you want. So the more you spend on marketing, you can justify it if your LTV is higher and it's hard for us to kind of independently validate. So just a little bit of thought around what is that prevailing level of spend out there and what do you want it to be to make the model or math work to what you think is going to be a profitable long-term?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Shaun. We don't quote specific CPAs or specific LTVs. LTVs, of course, are a pretty lengthy forward-looking estimate. What I would say is that you really have 3 elements that impact this. You have brand spend. You have performance spend where you're actually buying digital ads to bring customers directly to the product, and then you have the underlying promotion that you're providing to the customer, and some participants in the market have structural advantages in those areas, some participants don't, and so when you're, when you're pulling all 3 of those levers into a very, very aggressive market where there's a ton of competition in it and ton of folks doing the same thing, it could become particularly difficult, particularly in states where you're entering the market late. In Arizona as an example, where we did 26,000 plus FTDs over the course of September, that's a great outcome. Other states where maybe you're entering or scaling a little bit later becomes much more offer-driven and you can again, pretty quickly get upside down. I think what we're focused on is leveraging the advantages that we have. We have a database, we have a brand, and to the extent that we're not aggressively chasing every single lever. We can build a business over the longer term that's a great business into what will eventually be a really, really strong TAM.
Shaun Kelley:
Thanks for that, and then maybe a pivot for my follow-up, but just focused on or looking out to Las Vegas for 2022. You obviously have a shiny, brand-new convention center that's never been fully able to be utilized. Can you talk a little bit about how you expect that to ramp in '22, and when we might be at a level that you might consider run rate are really showing the potential of all believers that you have there?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. Brian, why don't you take that?
Brian Gullbrants:
Sure. The group rooms that we have right now are pacing ahead for '22 and even for '23. All its solid ADRs, the sales team is doing an amazing job, and I think we continue to see the interest level just spiking for some reason. It's fantastic we even have short-term interest. So very solid on the group side and foresee this continuing.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Shaun.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. You may go ahead.
Stephen Grambling:
Thanks. I'll offer my congrats and best wishes as well. Two follow-ups to earlier questions. First, on Macau, while the timing of recovery's uncertain, given your confidence in the concession renewal, what are some of the things that you're doing now or plan on doing to change the positioning of the assets to cater more to premium mass?
Matt Maddox:
Yes. Sure. Ian, why don't you why don't you jump in and take that?
Ian Coughlan:
Over the last 3 years, we've been pivoting as luxury assets that were formerly taken up by junket operators, and we've been opening them up for premium mass, whether it's at villas in our towers, high-end suites, and general gaming spaces, and we are fortunate to have the best assets and best service in market. So the pivot is very, very straightforward for us.
Stephen Grambling:
Great, and then maybe as an unrelated follow-up on real estate value. Craig, I appreciate the response on valuation so if we were to look Vegas and Boston assets separately, are the two markets seeing different potential differences in capital intensity and valuation from where you sit today? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Well, on the capital intensity side, naturally Boston is going to be less capital intensive. It's just the nature of the business there and the nature of the asset relative to Vegas. Vegas is a market of pretty consistent reinvention, and as Matt mentioned, we've done an incredible job at that. On the valuation side, again, I think you have to look over any reasonable period of time and look at the value of the real estate within the broader business. So we watch that very closely. We watch it all the time, and we're very conscientious of the underlying real estate value, but that has historically been our position and it remains unchanged.
Stephen Grambling:
Do you think that the competitors actually pursuing this have actually changed the competitive environment, perhaps to your beneficiary? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Have they changed the competitive environment? It's just a form of financing. It's no different than a piece of debt. It just happens to be over time a more expensive piece of debt than we observe in the bond markets today. At the end of the day, each operator is going to make their own decision and form their own strategy. Being an OpCo has its advantages and has its disadvantages depending upon what's happening in the broader business. So I don't think it's an operational question other than the willingness to continue to reinvest in your business and how you do that. But I don't think it's a day-to-day operational question per say.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. Thanks.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from David Katz with Jefferies. You may go ahead.
Cassandra Lee:
Hi. This is Cassandra asking on behalf of David. First, congratulations to both Matt and Craig on behalf of David, and thanks for taking my questions. I would like to ask about New York. You got the license yesterday. Just given the high tax rate at 51% and your comment around pivoting in your approach to scalability. So how are you thinking about your launch in New York?
Craig Billings:
Thank you. Yes, we were really pleased to be awarded that license yesterday, and New York clearly has the potential to be one of the largest addressable markets in the U.S. Given the tax rate as you point out, it's a prime example of a market where you need to be incredibly prudent with respect to marketing and bonus expense, which obviously is, as you also pointed out, a theme that I discussed pretty heavily in my prepared remarks. We have a great database in New York, particularly in the more affluent areas of the state, and certainly to the extent that you are prudent with marketing spend and bonusing, there's the opportunity to build a business there over time, but no doubt the tax rate is the headwind that we all have to acknowledge.
Cassandra Lee:
Got it, and if I may follow up, I think there is requests for information in New York for a downstate license. Any thoughts around potentially pursuing that or pursuing other organic or greenfield opportunities for Wynn?
Matt Maddox:
Yeah. This is Matt, and Craig and I have for the last five-plus years, we work on these things together, and that is what Wynn does. So I think we will be participating in the New York process up until it seems either like a good deal or uneconomic and it's hard to know. But that's one that we're going to keep a close eye on, and there are other potential new jurisdictions that could be really exciting, actually, and what's so great about this Company is our design team and architecture team over a 100 people that are responsible for mirage, and Treasure Island, and Bellagio, and Wynn, basically the modern-day integrated resort, are all intact and excited, and you can't build something new if you haven't built these things in the past, and our team is really good at that and understands how to make these things work both financially, but more importantly for the customers. So if a new opportunity comes up, that makes sense for Wynn and the Wynn brand, I think that the team will continue to look at it.
Cassandra Lee:
Thank you very much for taking my questions.
Craig Billings:
Thank you. Operator, we have time for one last question.
Operator:
Thank you. Our last question is from Robin Farley with UBS. You may go ahead.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks for taking the question. Craig, let me add my congratulations on top of everyone else's on the new role. I had a question about the potential gaming launched changes in Macau and just wondering your view is on, if government approvals required for dividends, would that be a concern in terms of ability to get shareholders return on the investment there, where would you be comfortable that would not be a factor that would come into play.
Matt Maddox:
Robin, it's Matt. I think everyone is focused on that issue and the industry is fairly united and like I said, I think the government has been very open and transparent, and in fact, in one of the consultative hearings, they talked about the need to balance the employment market and stability of Macau with returns for shareholders, which I think is perfectly logical and makes a lot of sense, and, Linda, you're attending these meetings in person, what are your thoughts?
Ian Coughlan:
This is Ian. We've been very impressed with the partnership orientation of government with their pragmatism and also the progress that's been made. It's being very transparent. They've allowed us to engage directly in person and also in writing. We've shared our concern. We don't have clarity on a number of the issues at this point, but we look at clarity further along the way. All of the concessions have similar concerns and we believe that the fact that we've aired them and share d them, that they will be given very serious consideration, like government. Ultimately, we're in partnership with government. They're also very aware of the growing regional competition, particularly with Japan now kicking up, so there is a desire for stability going forward, and they understand that we're businesses that need to reinvest and continue to develop so we feel a lot of support from government. It's a process, we'll get more information further down the line, but we're very confident that they have are best interest in hearts.
Robin Farley:
That's great. That's a really helpful color. Thank you. Can I follow up on a quick one related to the online gaming strategy if I could? I'm just curious this approach of so many online betting operators is that revenue matters early and I would say not at any cost, and the market seems very willing to value on multiples of revenue, and I mean, I'm old-school and I think as you do that, that profitability matters more than that. But what are your thoughts about if you don't focus on that in the early stages? You mentioned that entering late is more offer-driven may be than getting in on Day 1, and so it seems like that suggests that you do see a trade-off that there will be expense later if you don't capture the top-line market share up front. So wonder if you could just put some context around that? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Sure, Robin. First let me say that we fully intend to be Day 1 in every market that we address. We will be there Day 1. The important thing to keep in mind is not so much "Income Statement Profitability". It's profitability of cost per acquisition versus lifetime value. It's making sure that every first deposit or that you drive, or every cohort of first depositors that you drive are ultimately profitable on a lifetime value basis. So that's where we're focused. It's much more about the return on the spend, the return on the ad spend, and certainly we believe that we have the ability to do that over time. It doesn't mean that we're going to intentionally enter markets late.
Robin Farley:
I wasn't suggesting that you would but just maybe that holding back on the spend would mean that the revenue market share wouldn't be as high as the profitability market share. But that's helpful context. Thanks very much.
Matt Maddox:
Sure, no problem.
Craig Billings:
All right, everybody. Thank you for joining today. We'll talk to you next quarter. Thanks.
Operator:
That does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2021 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. And good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox, Marilyn Spiegel and Brian Gullbrants in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Jenny Holaday. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today. I'd like to start off with our results in North America, which we were all very happy with. Starting in Las Vegas. We made $133 million in EBITDA in Las Vegas. And what was great about the second quarter was each month was stronger than the last. In fact, June's EBITDA was double what we experienced in April. We saw our occupancy continue to grow week-over-week, and the strength across all segments was quite apparent from our night clubs to our hotel, our restaurants and our gaming volumes. We were able to achieve $133 million of EBITDA without international high-end play, which in the past had been almost 20% of our results and without conventions. And that trend continued into July. In fact, in July, Wynn Las Vegas experienced its single largest EBITDA for a month since we opened in 2005. We were able to get occupancy up to the mid-90s on the weekend, and it was still in the 80s during the week, but we focused on rate. We had - we were getting over $500 ADR on the weekends. And we're continuing to make sure we have the right customers in here and achieving the right results. Moving on to Boston. Same thing can be said. It was a record quarter in Boston at $46 million. We saw each month stronger than the last. Our database is accelerating quite rapidly there. In fact, our new sign-ups for our Wynn Rewards program were up 70% in the second quarter compared to the first quarter, 70%, and again, same story, July, record month, our best month on record for Encore Boston Harbor. So when I look at our results in North America, it's interesting to say, could the second quarter be a peak? And I think that, that's very short term thinking. The second quarter is not a peak. It's a preview of what's to come. We've all been able to streamline our expense structure, understand how to yield our properties better, and the ability to generate significant EBITDA out of these assets is quite clear. Now clearly, the Delta variant's throwing a little bit of a curveball right now. But that will be short term, and it will subside. And what is clear is people want to have fun. They want to go to Las Vegas. And as we see conventions come back, which is going to happen, and then more international play from around the world come back, I am very confident that we will continue to see growth in our results in both Las Vegas and in Boston. Looking at Macau, we made $67 million in EBITDA for the quarter. And Macau has been continuously sort of two steps forward, one step back. On our first quarter earnings call, we talked about the strength that we've just experienced during May in Golden Week, where we had achieved $3 million in EBITDA a day during that period. Then, however, after that call, there was a small outbreak in Guangdong that was quickly stamped out within a couple of weeks, but that greatly suppressed the volumes in June. We did start to see a slight comeback in the middle of July to where the results were getting close to the April and May results, which really indicates that there's real pent-up demand in the region to go to Macau. Clearly, there's been another outbreak that we've all been reading about in the region. And the restrictions have stepped up quite significantly just over the last few days in terms of travel restrictions. I think the good thing that we all have now experienced is that the Macau government acts decisively and quickly. And usually, it has been able to remedy these things and in the Greater Bay Area within a matter of weeks. So while we don't know how long this is going to last, the experience thus far, with the decisive action, the ability to test millions of millions of people just within a matter of days in the region and in Macau does give us great hope that this will continue to pass. And what's really - what we're really focused on is the accelerating vaccination rate in the region. And so while it's impossible to predict right now, we are quite hopeful that as the vaccination rate continues to accelerate and the stated goals are hopefully achieved by the end of the year, that we will begin to see a more stabilized and normalized operating environment. Looking at the interactive space, Wynn Interactive. We have an S-4 that's live right now out there. We're working very closely with the Austerlitz team on our SPAC, and that is moving forward quite well, and we're really excited about it. We put together a full robust program of new product delivery and the marketing program that we will be rolling out for NFL this year that we are excited about. The space is competitive, there's no doubt. But we are very confident with what we put together, with our product, with our brand and what we're going to be able to offer that we are going to be a real player in this market. And we're excited to share a lot more with you at an upcoming Analyst Day that Craig will talk about in a little more detail on this call. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Craig to get into some more detail.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. As Matt noted, our Macau operations delivered $67.6 million of EBITDA in the quarter on $454.4 million of operating revenue. Our EBITDA was driven by encouraging gaming and non-gaming performance combined with solid cost controls with particular strength in April and May. Gross gaming revenue per day in 2Q '21 was approximately 31% of Q2 '19, led by the premium mass segment. Our 2Q results in Macau were positively impacted by higher than normal VIP table games hold that increased EBITDA by approximately $10 million from a normalized level. With respect to cost controls, our OpEx, excluding gaming tax was $2.3 million per day in the quarter. This is down 23% from $3 million per day in the fourth quarter of 2019 and only up slightly sequentially despite the increase in revenue. We continue to be well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $133.2 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $355.1 million of operating revenue with particular strength on the weekends. In the casino, we saw broad based strength across key segments with slot handle 37% above 2Q 2019 levels and table dropped only 3% below 2Q '19. The team in Las Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience, delivering a record adjusted property EBITDA margin of 37.5% in the quarter. OpEx per day, again excluding gaming taxes decreased 24% to $2.3 million per day in the second quarter of '21 from $3 million per day in the fourth quarter of '19. While OpEx increased approximately 45% sequentially from $1.6 million in 1Q '21, revenue nearly doubled, driving strong operating leverage. In Boston, as Matt mentioned, we generated another record quarter with adjusted property EBITDA of $46.9 million on a record EBITDA margin of 28.4%. Similar to Las Vegas, we have remained very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day, excluding gaming tax of $870,000 in the quarter, a decrease of over 30% compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 '19 and a modest increase relative to the first quarter of '21 on the back of improved business volumes and increased operating hours. Turning to Wynn Interactive. We spent much of the quarter aggressively advancing our product features and building a robust marketing campaign ahead of the 2021 football season. Strategic highlights over the past few months include the recent launch of our web applications in Indiana, Colorado, Tennessee, New Jersey and Virginia, which we expect to help drive user acquisition over time. We've also strengthened our third party partnerships through agreements with the Detroit Lions, the Colorado Rockies and Cumulus Media. We've also announced several new high profile brand ambassadors, including Tim Howard and Chad Johnson, with more to come. Additionally, as sports and sports media continue to converge, we've partnered with several engaging content creators, including Chris Long, to develop unique sports themed programming from the new Blue Wire Podcasts studio at Wynn Las Vegas, which is scheduled to open in a few weeks. Wynn Interactive is now powered by just over 340 employees and is run rating $110 million in annualized gross revenue as of July. We modestly exceeded the Q2 results underpinning the projections published in connection with our announced de-SPAC with Austerlitz in May despite lower than expected user acquisition spend. We anticipate our revenue to accelerate over the remainder of the year, particularly in the fourth quarter, as we roll out our thoughtful and unique marketing campaign and our new product features. Our total acquisition spending declined sequentially, and we believe our ability to exceed our revenue projections on lower acquisition spend is a testament to the brand's ability to drive retention and higher average spend per customer. We look forward to sharing more details on this business during a presentation to sell-side analysts planned for September, along with a slide deck that will be posted on our IR website at that time. Turning to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of over $3.9 billion as of June 30. In Macau, we had approximately $2 billion of available liquidity as of June 30. In the US, we had total liquidity of approximately $1.9 billion on June 30th, with a substantially lower daily cash burn globally compared to the first quarter of '21. Earlier this week, a subsidiary of Wynn Macau, Limited received commitments for a new $1.5 billion senior unsecured revolving credit facility that will mature in 2025. The arrangement includes broad participation by our bank group of supportive existing lenders, including local and international banks. Borrowings under the new facility, along with cash on hand, will be used to refinance and retire our existing senior secured credit facility in Macau. Finally, our CapEx in the quarter was $70 million, and we remain prudent with respect to CapEx while we gain further confidence in the recovery. With that, we will now turn it over to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli [Deutsche Bank]. Thank you. Your line is now open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Matt, Craig, I guess, obviously, a lot has happened here in the last couple of weeks in Macau. But in terms of how you guys are thinking about maybe the relevant benchmarks as to when things could start to get back to normal, is there anything your folks on the ground are tracking or maybe have been told as it pertains to kind of getting things reopened in a way that we're all accustomed to?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure. I'll comment and then turn it over to Ian. I think right now, everyone is really focused on the accelerated vaccination rate and getting to those stated goals by the end of the year. The Delta variant is very hard to predict. And the actions that they take over there are quick and decisive because they stamp it out when they lock it down. And so I don't - we don't really have any other clarity as to when that will change. But I think the pace of vaccination is quite encouraging. Ian, do you have more thoughts on that? Ian, are you on mute? Or did you drop?
Ian Coughlan:
Sorry, can you hear me now, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Yes.
Ian Coughlan:
So it's very clearly linked to the pace of vaccinations, as you pointed out, within the PRC, but also within Hong Kong and Macau and us getting a tripartite agreement and a bubble going so that we can get back to a higher level of normal than we've experienced. We have managed the lift in business very well. There is a desire on the part of the PRC government to allow travel into Macau whenever it's possible. We've obviously had a pullback in the last couple of days, but there's confidence that the current small cluster will be under control within a couple of weeks. We're going through mass testing of the entire population of Macau over a three day period. And we're confident that we will reopen with the PRC in due course, but it is very linked to vaccine rollout. The one consequence of having a small cluster Delta outbreak in Macau is it will be a huge encouragement for some of the people that has held back on getting a vaccine because they deemed Macau very safe. This could be an alert for them to go and get vaccinated. Right now, we're at 44% vaccination rate in the city, very similar to Hong Kong. So we hope to lift that considerably in the coming weeks and months.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you. And that's very helpful. And then, Craig, just kind of revisiting your commentary on Las Vegas. Obviously, you guys have taken a lot of cost out of the business. I believe property level margins, 37%, 38% in the period, you know, clearly well higher than kind of the aggregate of 2019, over 1,000 basis points better. As the business does ramp and acknowledging that you guys are kind of bringing on or brought on a while ago but haven't yet put in use the incremental group in convention meeting space, what does the margin profile potentially look on a forward basis?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Carlo. So you may recall, we touched on this a little bit on the last call. And really, as the business has come back in North America, we've been better able to understand where we will have permanent cost saves and where some costs might come back in. You saw some of those costs come back in over the course of Q2, and we had more than corresponding revenue increases. But as we said on the last call, we're really not talking in terms of margins because that is ultimately business mix and revenue dependent. But what we did say is that we expected about $150 million of ongoing annual cost saves in the US, comprised of somewhere between $75 million and $95 million in Vegas and $65 million to $85 million in Boston.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thanks. That’s helpful. Thank you, guys.
Matt Maddox:
Next question?
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen with Stanley Morgan (sic) [Morgan Stanley]. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. Can you just give us a little bit more color on what you're seeing in terms of group bookings in Vegas? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. Marilyn, do you want to take that?
Marilyn Spiegel:
Sure. The - August is our first month that we will almost be back to a normal run rate for group bookings. But when you think about second quarter, each month was sequentially higher. And this year, we are going to have more group bookings than we had ever in the second half of the year. So we're in good shape right now. We've had just a handful of cancellations. We have our largest group that comes in next week, and the pickup is solid. So we feel really good about that. For 2022, we are above pace from what we were in 2019, and the same is true for 2023. And the ADRs are higher in 2022 and 2023. So we feel good about that group business in addition. The pace of leads has been also accelerated. So COVID is relatively new. We don't know what the future is going to be like. But in terms of just a week ago, that's the status of what we're seeing.
Thomas Allen:
Perfect. Helpful. And then just as my follow-up on WynnBET, what's the latest thinking on the closing of the transaction and when you expect to start deploying the capital? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Sure. So we would expect - it's really SEC dependent because we have another instance of the S-4 that will need to make its way through the SEC. They were pretty expeditious with the last review. So we would hope that the shareholder vote would be in late September. We would then get regulatory approvals, which is really just protocol, and we would hope to close in early to mid Q4. Keep in mind, we have the ability to advance that business funds from Wynn Resorts and then essentially take that back as part of the proceeds. So it's not going to stop us from deploying capital where appropriate and prudent, but we would expect closure sometime in Q4.
Thomas Allen:
Thanks, Craig.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi, thanks. I know this is always a bit of a tough question to answer necessarily. But what's been the latest conversations and or expectations related to the concession renewal in Macau? And how are you trying to plan around that from a capital allocation standpoint?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. This is Matt, and then I'll turn it over to Ian to comment as well. But there's really no new news on that front. So we have a very good relationship in Macau with the local government. We're working closely with the local government to ensure that the goals of the Greater Bay region as being a tourist destination and Macau being a really central part of that are met and what we can do to help facilitate that growth and facilitate continued expansion in Macau. So we feel really good about our position in Macau as a good corporate citizen and the future of Macau. Ian or Linda, do you have any other thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
Yeah. The government's primary focus is clearly on the managing the unpredictability of the pandemic, that's the primary focus. But it doesn't mean that work isn't taking place behind the scenes. The government have referenced on a number of occasions that the first step in the process is a public consultation process that will take place in the second half of the year. There's also a completion of local elections in September, which is necessary before they start addressing any gaming law revision. So there is a lot of activity going on behind the scenes. No official conversations yet, but work is taking place. Primary consideration is managing the COVID pandemic.
Stephen Grambling:
Thank you. And maybe as a follow-up, focusing on Macau. I guess if we were to think about the liquidity profile in that market, is there any way to assess how that looks in its ability to support VIP or even parts of premium mass to support a full rebound should you get the green light in the back half of the year?
Matt Maddox:
Yeah. I've stated, I think, on our last couple of calls that we are very optimistic about premium mass and the liquidity profile that will be there and in core mass. And VIP is certainly structurally changed. And a lot of VIP customers are converting to more direct customers, we're seeing that already. So the idea that VIP would revert back to its previous levels, I think that's clearly a foregone - that's not going to happen. But the overall market and high end customers I think will be quite robust as, you point out, the green light comes on.
Stephen Grambling:
Great. Thanks so much.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Your line is open,
David Katz:
Hi, afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to ask about Macau. We obviously can't tell exactly when, but presuming that there is sort of an all clear to reopen and the flow of customers that can you know, come with some state of normalcy, help us understand what a ramp like that would look like and what the trajectory of it would be and the puts and takes, et cetera?
Matt Maddox:
It's - you know, as you point out, David, it's hard to predict. But just when we witnessed what happened with Golden Week in May, how we went from not a lot of business in April to $3 million of EBITDA a day over that period, it just shows that the pent-up demand is very real. And I think everywhere around the world, the demand for what we do is stronger than it's ever been. So to - clearly, VIP won't come roaring back to where it was, but I fully anticipate that what you'll see on the premium mass side and on the mass side will be stronger than it's ever been. With very limited visitation, we've seen retail revenues up more than 50% to 70% in Wynn Palace. And our retail partners are continuing to double down and invest, building large-scale stores in our facilities as we speak, which really goes to the idea that this is going to be quite a tourist destination when things come back. In fact, Ian, why don't you spend a little bit of time just talking about some of the new retail offerings that are going to be opening soon and how excited those brand partners are?
Ian Coughlan:
So actually, during the quarter, the first and second quarter, we've had 9 stores of Wynn Palace that have been shut down and had been getting moved around. And we have the arrival of 9 LVMH brands into Wynn Palace. So they're opening an LV men's and women's, 2 different stores, at the end of this week. We've got 2 stores with Christian Dior opening. Fendi and Bulgari opened recently. So there's a huge desire with the top brands to be represented in both Wynn properties. We have a queue as long as my arm [ph] of brands that are trying to get space at either of the properties.
Matt Maddox:
And so David, my point to that is, clearly, that's just a small portion of our EBITDA, but it's an indication of what people are seeing in that region that Macau is going to be, I think, a very successful and robust tourist destination for the premium mass customer as things start to clear.
David Katz:
Thank you for that.. And if I can just follow-up quickly and it might be more for Ian is one of the things we've seen here are labor constraints. What is the labor situation like in Macau?
Ian Coughlan:
So our workforce is predominantly Macau based with Macau local residents. We do have 20% of our working population that is import labor, but we have no issues with finding workforce. And the majority of our import labor comes from the PRC, so we haven't had any issues at this point. And I don't believe Macau will have any issues attracting workers.
David Katz:
Okay. Thank you very much.
Matt Maddox:
And I'd like to point out in North America, clearly, attracting workers has been a challenge just for the hospitality industry. But for us, it hasn't been. We set a record EBITDA in Las Vegas in July. And we also had an additional 500 people that we brought on board to make sure that we keep our margins where we have them but then our service levels are maintained. And the same thing's happened at Encore Boston Harbor. So the labor market is clearly tight, but the applicant flow that we've seen coming to our properties has been extraordinary. We've had a hard time interviewing people versus finding people. And I think that's really going to be a big benefit for us going forward. Operator, we have time for one last question.
Operator:
Thank you. Our last question comes from Robin Farley with UBS. Your line is open.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks for taking the question. I wanted to ask about - in Vegas with those strong margins. Are there some amenities like the buffet or valet parking that some of these sort of lower-margin amenities that may come back that weren't fully there in the quarter? If you could just kind of manage our expectations a little bit about how margins may look sequentially if you had all of that baked in already in Q2 or if there's anything that might be layered in here from Q2 into Q3?
Marilyn Spiegel:
Well, when you think about the buffet, we have opened the buffet. It opened at the beginning of July. And so that is open five days a week. We also have our valet parking at our tower suites that is complementary for guests or guests who choose to park in Wynn Resorts. On the resort side, there's a fee for parking, but they park for free in the parking garage. All other amenities are wide open. We'll be opening some additional restaurants in August. We opened Delilah in July. So that brought on additional labor. And then our new Mexican restaurant Casa Playa will be opening in August. And so you'll see additional FTEs coming on, but also the appropriate revenues to support that.
Craig Billings:
And as Matt mentioned, Robin, we generated a tremendous amount of EBITDA in July despite the buffet being open and all the parking dynamics that Marilyn just mentioned. I would just refer you back to what we talked about on our last call and I referenced a little bit earlier, which is the kind of $75 million to $95 million of cost saves in Vegas we think are permanent and $65 to $85 in Boston, and then you can vary the model and kind of back into the margin.
Robin Farley:
Okay. Great, thanks. And just one other comment. I wanted to clarify, Marilyn, when you were talking about group, I just want to make sure I understood. You said something like the second half will have the most group ever or something. And I just want to make sure I understand. It was like group events happening or new bookings coming in for the future periods.
Marilyn Spiegel:
The group - Robin, the groups on the books coming in the second half of 2021 are the highest number of group bookings we've experienced at Wynn. And so typically, most of the group bookings will happen in the first and second quarter. And so there is a couple of reasons for that. One, groups that were scheduled in the -- in 2020 are - were pushed into 2021. And some of those groups were pushed into the second half of the year, but they have held. And so it's a large number of group bookings for a second half.
Robin Farley:
But I imagine that 2022 would be ahead of that or - but not at this point, is that expected or...
Marilyn Spiegel:
Correct, it is. So the pace in 2022 is the most group bookings we've ever had on the books at this time for the year. So we are pacing very well in '22 and very well in '23. We're quite optimistic about the group business, especially with our new asset, which we really didn't have a chance to use much because we opened it up and then COVID hit us in 2020. So we feel very good about the group business coming back. Of course, all that depends upon the future of COVID in our lives.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Matt Maddox:
Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We'll see you next quarter.
Operator:
That concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at this time.+
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts’ First Quarter 2021 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the conference over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. And good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan; Ciaran Carruthers; Frederic Luvisutto; and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig. And good afternoon everyone. Before we dive right into the quarter results, I’d like to first talk about how excited we are to announce the merger of Wynn Interactive into Austerlitz Acquisition Corp. I’ve really been thinking about online sports betting in the iGaming space over the last few years. We knew that we are distinct to what we do, which is build great product and provide the best customer service. Wynn Interactive is now a company with over 300 people. We have some of the lumanaries from European Gaming, people co-founders of Bwin [Ph] that are responsible for a lot of the products that we are developing in this 300 person team. And as we look out into the future and we realize this is likely going to be as large as the commercial casino revenue opportunity of $40 billion over the next 5 plus year, which by the way that’s typically how long it takes to build one of our bricks to mortar properties around 5 years. We knew that this is an opportunity that we had to capitalize on. And so as we export various options it became very clear that creating a pure play public company, in partnership with Bill Foley, one of the most renowned investors in the United States, was clearly the right thing to do to create the most value for the Wynn resort shareholders and for the Wynn Interactive shareholders. Bill, just for those of you that don't know, has created over $100 billion in shareholder value during his investing career, $100 billion. He's the owner of a professional sports team, he owns luxury hospitality assets around the country. He recently completed the successful destack of Paysafe, a digital payments company that is now getting into the digital gaming space. So partnering with Bill and our team of 300 people, and thinking about the product roadmap, and the marketing dollars, and that we're going to invest to ensure that we're winners in this space, felt like the exact right thing to do and we're very excited to have $640 million of committed capital injected into this company to launch this venture. We'll be posting a presentation online after this call that has a lot more details around this merger. And we'll be spending time after this call talking about it. With that, I'm going to go ahead and turn over to our quarterly results. And what we've been saying in our properties in Macau, Las Vegas, and in Boston, has been a very similar story. Momentum each month continuing to accelerate. As an example, in Macau, we generated $43.9 million of EBITDA in the first quarter. But it's moving so fast over there. I feel like talking about what we're seeing now is more relevant than what we experienced in the first quarter, as we saw strength continue into February and in March. So that momentum continued in April and in May, and in fact, during the Golden Week, which is the first week of May, in Macau, we experienced and generated $3 million of normalized EBITDA per day during Golden Week, by far the highest amount of normalized profit that we've been able to generate since the onset of the pandemic at the beginning of 2020. Even with the junket, volumes continuing to fluctuate between 25% and 30% Golden Week 2019, we were able to achieve these results because we focused our business on mass and premium mass. And as we've talked about in previous calls, we've been converting space that was previously for VIP into premium mass base and we feel very comfortable and confident with our position in the Macao market. In fact, we generated 76% of our mass volumes during the Golden Week this year compared to the Golden Week in 2019. Our hotel occupancy during Golden Week was 93%, in retail, which is continuing to be a shining star across our portfolio in North America and Macau was up 80% over the Golden Week numbers in 2019. Going forward in May and into June, we do expect that May we'll continue to see acceleration over the April results. And we are very, very excited about the summer and what's going to come in Macau. Just seeing the earnings power over a Golden Week and understanding where the Chinese consumer is headed and what our position in that market is makes us more confident in our position in Macau, in the Macau market and our future development opportunities in and around Wynn Palace to continue to build on what we do best and to grow our top line and our bottom line in Macau. Moving to North America in Las Vegas. Again, we've seen very encouraging trends. We generated $28 million dollars in EBITDA in the first quarter. And what we really thought was right around March Madness was when the volumes began to pick up in the first quarter. And that has accelerated. As an example, in the month of April our REVPAR, which is where we're really focused has increased 50% FIFO over the first quarter results. Retail revenues in the month of April were the second best month on record. From 2005 till April of 2021 is the second best month on record. And what's even more encouraging and much more than a green shoot, but a clear indication of the roaring consumer that's coming back, our slot revenues in April were $25 million, which was a property record, more than any other month in the history of Wynn Las Vegas. So you take those things that we're already seeing in Las Vegas, and looking at quarter to date, our EBITDA has already exceeded the first quarter in Las Vegas. Our weekends going forward, are in the 90s, in terms of hotel occupancy. And we're really focused on pricing and pricing power. Our group business is holding on and looking actually quite strong for the back half of the year. In fact, just last week, we hosted our first large group of 600 people, and it went off without a hitch, people are so happy to be back; conventions work, customers are excited and as more restrictions are lifted, and we're able to really start to roll out our entertainment and our nightclubs and do what we do best. We think that Las Vegas is opportunity is really unique and the best times are ahead. Moving to Boston at Encore Boston Harbor, we achieved record EBITDA of $30 million for the quarter, and that even with restricted operating hours and quite significant COVID restrictions in the month of January. And that trend has continued. In fact, in the second quarter thus far, our daily EBITDA is up 30 plus percent, compared to the first quarter. Encore Boston Harbor is hitting on all cylinders right now. We've been able to really rationalize the cost, run the building much more efficiently and focus on our casino customers, and being the top Super Regional Casino in the northeast. I believe that Encore Boston Harbor is going to continue to grow quarter-over-quarter throughout this year as that property and that management team are really doing an amazing job. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Craig to provide more details on the quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. As Matt noted, our Macau operations delivered $43.9 million of EBITDA in the quarter on $417 million of operating revenue. Our EBITDA was driven by encouraging gaming and non-gaming performance combined with solid cost controls. Gross gaming revenue per day in 1Q 21 was approximately 34% of Q4 2019 led by the premium mass segment with particular strength in March. As Matt mentioned, this strength continued into April as mass dropped reach $16.8 million per day or 59% of Q4 2019, or a 26% increase compared to 1Q 2021 levels. Our 1Q 2021 results in Macau were positively impacted by higher-than-normal table games hold that increased EBITDA by approximately $10 million to $15 million from a normalized level. With respect to cost controls, our OpEx excluding gaming tax was $2.2 million per day in the quarter. This was down 25% from approximately $3 million per day in Q4, 2019 and flattish sequentially. We are well positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the business continues to recover. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $28.1 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $178.7 million of operating revenue from a business that was heavily weighted to weakened occupancy. The casino saw broad based strength across key segments with slide handle and table drop reaching 86% and 80% of Q4 2019 levels respectively during the quarter. The team in Las Vegas has done a great job of controlling costs without negatively impacting the guest experience. OpEx per day excluding gaming taxes decreased 48% to $1.6 million per day in 1Q 2021 from 3 million per day in Q4 2019, and similar to Macau OpEx was largely flat compared to Q4 2020. As Matt noted, the business picked up beginning in March and the strength continued in the second quarter to date. We believe the combination of meaningful permanent cost saves along with increased group demand position as well to accelerate our recovery as we move into the back half of 2021. In Boston, we generated record EBITDA of $30.4 million despite curtailed operating hours for much of January and it continued significant limitation on gaming positions. Similar to Las Vegas, we've remained very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day excluding gaming tax of 760,000 in 1Q 2021, a 40% decrease compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019, and a modest increase relative and 680k per day in Q4 2020. Turning to Wynn Interactive, now with approximately 300 employees as Matt mentioned, and over 100 million in run rate gross gaming revenue based on March results, we are aggressively scaling our efforts to close key product gaps, develop new and innovative features and create a world class branding and brand ambassador program. You'll hear more about this exciting business during our video presentation and in our slide deck that will be posted to our Investor Relations website at approximately 2:30pm Pacific today. Turning to the balance sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of nearly 4 billion as of April 30. In Macau, we had approximately 2.09 billion of available liquidity as of the end of April, and in the U.S., we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.85 billion on April 30, with a substantially lower daily cash burn globally compared to the second half of 2020. As a reminder, on February 11, we completed a successful public offering of 7.5 million shares of Wynn Resorts stock, with net proceeds of $842 million. Our CapEx in the quarter was $40 million. With the North American business environment improving, we have made the decision to proceed with the Las Vegas room remodel this summer, and have approximately 175 million remaining to spend. Beyond that, we are remaining extremely prudent with respect to CapEx what we gained further confidence in the recovery. With that, we will now open the line to Q&A. Please limit your questions to Wynn Resorts related topics as we will discuss the Wynn Interactive transaction in more detail in a separate presentation later today, as I mentioned. Thank you, operator?
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. You may go ahead.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, guys, thanks. Matt, you have a lot of color on kind of the trends you're seeing in Macau now, as it pertains and to the extent that you can address, what provides the confidence in the follow through obviously Golden Week is going to be an exogamous period. But the follow through in what you've seen in March, April, that now with golden week as we come out of the holiday period, is it something around, kind of just the comfort level of travel people getting more used to it? Or do you foresee some vaccination type? Or I should say visa type restrictions loosening that that would kind of really allow the growth to be a little bit more unbridled?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, I don't think I'd use the word unbridled right now. Well, nothing in Macau has been unbridled, the government's been very careful and cautious as to how they continually increase tourism into the market. And we do anticipate that to continue. So yes, some of the things that I think are quite positive, is we're actually seeing a lot of new customers, a lot of new premium mass customers, premium mass was actually up during golden week, more than mass for us, but they were both very strong. Just because Macau is an option for people to travel. And so we think that over the long term, Macau opening up to China's actually allowing us to acquire customers that we've never seen before. So, I think that each week that goes by, again, golden week excluded, it is getting stronger. And we, looking at our forecast, even though the windows quite short, back half of May and into June, we're feeling pretty good about the continued strength. Ian, do you want to add anything to that?
Ian Coughlan:
I think the success of golden week has given us a lot of confidence about the summer. And you could say it's almost been a test ride for arranging Chinese economy where people have no way of traveling overseas. And to what you said earlier, we are seeing new customers coming to market who hadn't travelled to Macau before, and they're getting positively overwhelmed with the quality of resorts in the city. And I believe that that's going to be very sticky for us through the summer. What we've seen post golden week as the normal post-holiday is long, but it's at a higher level than some of the weekend visits that we had in April. So as we head towards the summer, we're very positive.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you guys. And then just one last one Craig you mentioned obviously going through with the LV room remodel this summer 175 million of CapEx left to spend this year, I imagine referring to it. And if you guys could just comment like, you're given, what should I think by most accounts be a very strong summer in Las Vegas. As the market continues to kind of open up and I was the group stuff comes back, was there was there something potentially kind of holding off on that to keep the maximum amount of rooms online for the summer and second half?
Matt Maddox:
This is Matt. No, we, our rooms haven't been remodeled since 2010. We actually, were going to launch the remodel at the end of 2019. And COVID put a little stop to that, because of all the uncertainty. Clearly, in hindsight, I wish we would have spent the $200 million while we were closed, but we didn't. And the idea that we need to wait, because we're worried about room compression, I think is the wrong thing to do. Because if you look at our property and going into 2022, we have yet to utilize our new 400,000 square foot Convention Center. And a lot of while the back half of 2021 looks good, 2022 is really strong. And so what we want to do is we want to come out of 2021 and go into 2022, with brand new room product. And this is not just a soft refurb ragweed [ph] or, you know, a rag job. This is a full remodel of these rooms. And I think it's going to really be a competitive edge for us going into 2022. Marilyn, you have any thoughts on that?
Marilyn Spiegel:
No. And as we think about how it starts, it's going to be, a slow ramp up. But we'll be finished with start mid July will finish by the end of the year. And I agree with Matt, we've got so much to look forward to in 2022. We want to be totally prepared for that.
Carlo Santarelli:
All right, thank you all very much.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Joe Greff with JPMorgan, you may go ahead.
Joe Greff:
Hey, guys, just first question on Macau just based on what you're indicating for Q2 today and the visitation numbers we've seen coming out of Macau for April and May, it would suggest that that you and others are seeing a much stronger length of stay, which maybe makes sense given the increased pivot and focus to premium. So can you talk a little bit about that? And how much of that is intentional through how you're positioning your assets versus maybe what's just kind of going on with a different type of customer behavior in Macau?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure. Joe, Ian, why don't you, why don't you take that one around length of stay.
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. We're not seeing a significant increase in length of stay. People are normally staying two to three nights, that's always been our market anyway. The lack of group tours and day trippers to the city is what's missing from the previous marketplace. Length of stay is pretty consistent, but it's a higher quality customer, particularly the new customers that are coming to market and trying out from overseas technical travel birth. We're seeing a higher quality of customer.
Joe Greff:
Great, thank you for that. And Matt, maybe you mentioned this and I missed it or not sure if you talked about it. But you did give us some indication of sort of the strength in May over April, but I'm not sure you gave the April basin account in terms of either volumes or EBITDA per day or sort of other metrics to tie that May performance too?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, no, Joe, I didn't. I was just making the comment that we're continuing to see strength. I mean, the month of April that for us the first couple of weeks, were a little soft with Ching Ming festival and other things that were going on. And we really saw the back half of April strengthen. And then following golden week we're experiencing those volumes and you know, feel like it's going to continue to grow from that level.
Joe Greff:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley, you may go ahead.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. On Vegas, you gave some encouraging commentary around weekend document teaming over in the 90s. And how you're really focused on rate, can you just give us some more color on the rate and maybe some color on what's going on in weekdays. Thank you.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Sure. So we've really focused on grabs par. We're really focused on having the right guests come here who will appreciate the room product who will want to dine in our restaurants or want to lay on the floor. And so you can come here and find, it'll be May the first weekend that we'll see 90%. Mid-week, we will be in May, about 20 points less than that, that's obviously the lack of the group business. And yet, we just had our first group come and they filled 90% of their blocks. So we felt really good about that. At one time, after we reopened, we dipped our rate. And I would say that our regular customer was not comfortable with having so many people here. And so we have really increased that rate. And the REVPAR is very important that you can see that we will sell at the top of the market on a consistent basis.
Thomas Allen:
Hopeful color. And then just on Macau, a couple of quarters ago maybe was last quarter, you talked about feeling like you were taking some of the -- some of your competitors’ customers as they came back to the market and they wanted the best product. Do you still feel like that's happening?
Matt Maddox:
I don't actually remember saying that we're taking other people's customers, but what we have been taking and seeing are new customers. And I feel very comfortable that the way we positioned our product there that we will be market share takers on the premium math and core math side with our assets in VIP that we're converting into the premium segment. So, I do expect us to continue to increase our share on that front, as we roll out, really our new programs and our new product. Ian, do you have any more color on that?
Ian Coughlan:
.:
So, we're excited about that. And despite the arrival of new competition in the marketplace, particularly in our neighborhood, we actually welcome that. And it's a farming of what we call full circle time. We've had Morpheus open, MGM is ramping up. And we've got branded for Palace opening at some point in the summer. So that's all great for the future, to introduce new customers to Wynn.
Thomas Allen:
Helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our next question is from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. You may go ahead
Stephen Grambling:
Hey there. This one we’ll tie and win that a little bit, but it's really meant to be a Wynn resorts question. Some of your peers have talked about the benefits of Omni channels have iGaming and online sports betting. How will Wynn Resorts continue to interact with WynnBET to ensure you capture that full benefit?
Matt Maddox:
Craig, why don’t you take that one?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Happy to. So I guess I would respond to that from two perspectives. The first is that we're in the midst now of integrating Wynn rewards into our products. You'll see more of that in the presentation here in about 30 minutes. So we'll have Wynn rewards fully integrated into the product. And we do believe that will that will generate benefit for the land based business. We obviously have a pretty robust database in North America, about 13 million folks. And so that will, that will in return benefit WynnBET. Then the second component to that is really Massachusetts. So there's a few different retail and online sports betting bills floating around in Massachusetts right now. And while the timing is TBD, we would be hopeful that something gets done this year. And we're going to be ready to go day one in the event that legalization has passed and we have very strong homecourt advantage there. So, I think the integration of the digital product there where we have a two plus billion dollar asset in the middle of Boston will prove to be very fruitful for both businesses.
Stephen Grambling:
Thanks, look forward to seeing the video.
Craig Billings:
Thanks.
Operator:
Thank you. The next question is from David Katz with Jefferies, you may go ahead. David, your line is open, can you please check your mute feature? We are not getting the response. David. If your line is open, you may go ahead with your question.
Matt Maddox:
Operator, let's move to the last question, please.
Operator:
Yes, thank you. Our last question is from Robin Farley with UBS, you may go ahead.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thanks. Similarly, wanted to ask a question that is really about the impact on Wynn Resorts, which is, will Wynn Resorts be receiving kind of royalty stream for the use of the Wynn brand from the spin out company just trying to think about the benefit to the Wynn Resorts piece? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
Sure, Robin is Matt. I'll talk a little bit about it, and then hand it over to Craig. So as you look at the press release in the presentation, you'll find that Wynn Resorts is still the majority owner of WynnBET post transaction. So, Wynn Resorts will own roughly 58% of the company post transaction. There are intercompany arrangements, just like with our other properties for royalty streams, and all of the intercompany marketing agreements. So all of that is in place. What's exciting for us is to have -- it's really a pure play public company with $600 million-plus of committed capital. And our management team and Bill Foley, ready to really go after the space over the next few years. So, clearly, we're still the majority owner of that company, and we vote over 70% of it. So you should continue to think about it as a subsidiary of Wynn Resorts fully controlled. And Craig, you want to add anything else to that?
Craig Billings:
No, I think you said it well. The benefits of Wynn Resorts comes through the equity ownership. But certainly there are intercompany arrangements representing the brand and consumables on property that WynnBET may use. And, just as a example, as we've been -- we've launched WynnBET now in six states. We’ve seen various customers, getting really excited about the bricks-and-mortar experience and the ability to participate in both sides of that. We've had one customer in the northeast transfer hundreds of 1000s of dollars to one of our casinos. And we offer lots of rewards. That would include being, picked up on a plane and their villa and all the things that we do at Las Vegas, being able to offer that always sounded like the right idea, but we're already seeing how excited our WynnBET customers are to take advantage of that. So I fully anticipate that WynnBET will have a very large database, and that the companies will be able to utilize those for both our bricks-and-mortar experience and the online experience.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thanks for the color. Can I ask one follow up on Macau? Just kind of a bigger picture question. I think that you've said in previous calls that, that it might be sort of a multiyear. So just looking bigger picture, the VIP piece, the business has never gotten back to kind of that, that pre that that 2014 level, where do you think when things normalize when, borders are open, and it's not? And that's not the issue? Where do you think VIP kind of levels out versus pre COVID levels? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
It's really hard to predict. But in the past couple of calls, I've been out there saying that it feels like it probably gets back to around 50% of the pre-COVID levels. I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's more than that. But we're positioning our business for that outcome. And, we're positioning our business on the continued growth in the premium mass and mass segment.
Craig Billings:
And I would just add to that, Robin, you're right. The junket business has been evolving, but we've been evolving too. And so a lot of those players are actually playing directly with the operators. Right. So we've been pivoting resources to better serve those customers, as we've talked about kind of ad nauseum, both physical resources and, and service personnel. And so we're well positioned to deal with the transition, whatever that transition ultimately looks like.
Robin Farley:
Great. Thank you very much.
Matt Maddox:
All right. Thank you folks. Have a great day. We look forward to talking to you again.
Operator:
Thank you. That does conclude today’s conference. Thank you all for participating. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts’ Fourth Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. And good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan; Linda Chen; Ciaran Carruthers; Frederic Luvisutto; and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig. And good afternoon everyone. Thanks, for joining today. We clearly made progress in the fourth quarter of this year as all of our properties were actually EBITDA positive. It's a real testament to the team the way we've been able to streamline our cost structure and take more of the revenue to the EBITDA line. And in fact, I think, our company is in the best position it's ever been in to translate revenue into EBITDA as more of the business comes back because it's going to. We continue to anticipate that we're going to see growth month over month in each of our markets and we are well positioned with the way that we've streamlined our business. If you look at Macau, we generated $39 million of EBITDA for the quarter. And Macau is continuing to see progress. The government, there has been very thoughtful and very cautious as to the way that it's been allowing people into Macau. And we feel confident that that growth is going to continue. One of the positives of 2020 was that we've been able to spend a lot of time thinking about the future of Macau and really what the growth drivers are going to be going forward. And it's crystal clear that the growth drivers for Macau are really the sweet spot of our company and that's the premium segment – premium mass, in particular. So, we spent a lot of time reconfiguring our properties over the last six months to cater to that customer. We've turned restaurants, buffet into a hotpot restaurant. We've taken Michelin star restaurants and created a more premium mass environment. In fact, we've taken some of our large villas that we don't anticipate we'll be using for the junket business, and we've turned them into entertainment facilities for the premium mass customer. That customer is going to lead back, and we are well positioned to take a disproportionate share of that business. And we think that it's going to continue to improve month-over-month. And our team is positioned to focus on the premium mass segment. Moving to North America. In Las Vegas, we made roughly $21 million of EBITDA for the quarter. And $14 million of that came in October. So, in October we were seeing some green shoots, I think, as most of the country was before the ramp up of the COVID numbers, sort of around the country and the restrictions kicked back in. They kicked back in Nevada and in our key markets in California, and New York and other places. And we saw a real decline in business after October. As an example, in October, we were booking roughly 1,650 rooms per night for future bookings. And a couple of weeks after that into November, December, that number fell to 700, 700 rooms per night. And that continued into January. However, we've seen just in the last 10 days and uptick again, and it's right in line with the COVID numbers, sort of around the country, decreasing. It's clear that people are ready to have fun. They are ready to travel, but they are still not quite sure if it's time. We've seen our booking rooms per night, go back up to almost 1,600 from 800 in November and December, just in the last 10 days. In fact, for Superbowl, we're going to be at almost 50% occupancy the first time since October with over a thousand casino customers coming, which is significantly more than we had for New Year's Eve. So, while there's still a long way to go in Las Vegas, we can tell that as people become more and more – feeling more safe, they are ready to travel and they are ready to have fun. And we're ready to create that experience. In fact, we've built multiple restaurants in Las Vegas during this period that we haven't opened. So, we're going to be opening new restaurants this year, as the restrictions continue to lift. Just to remind everybody, we built a 400,000-square-foot convention center that opened at the beginning of last year that we've never used. And so, we have lots of new product, exciting stuff that we've been working on all throughout 2020 that we'll be able to launch as business comes back. And if you look at the convention space, there's a lot of questions about it obviously. We have roughly 170,000 room nights, convention room nights on the books for the third quarter and fourth quarter of this year, which is about the same as what we had in 2019. Now, clearly I expect some lush out of that. We haven't seen massive cancellations yet, but I'm sure that there will be cancellations. But we're doing everything we can to keep that business and to create additional business. As an example, we opened the first in Nevada a private partnership with a UMC vaccination destination – Vaccination Center. We're vaccinating between 500 and 700 people a day in our Encore ballroom. And this month we will be opening our COVID testing lab, which is a PCR based lab that will have the ability to process between 5,000 and 7,000 tests a day. That opens this month. And the idea is that when we talk to groups or when we're talking to the state leaders about entertainment, about nightclubs, about conventions, that will have the ability for customers to have health passport, whereby they can say and show that they've been vaccinated, or they've been tested in our lab onsite, and it's been turned around within six hours. So, you know everybody in your space, everybody in this convention area has either tested negative for COVID or has been vaccinated. I think that that's going to be a real advantage for us going forward to keep these groups on and to attract additional business. As we see the restrictions, hopefully continue to lift as vaccines rollout. And we're very hopeful that by this summer we're really starting to see a lot more people traveling to Las Vegas. Looking at Massachusetts Encore Boston Harbor, we made about $16.7 million in EBITDA for the quarter. And again, same story Las Vegas, 11 of that in October. As the numbers ticked up, the COVID numbers ticked up in Massachusetts the restrictions rightfully kicked in. And there we actually had to close Encore Boston Harbor at nine o'clock at night, beginning in November into January. But just recently because their numbers have been going down and their positivity rates are looking quite good in Massachusetts, we’ve been able to reopen 24/7 in Massachusetts. And today the Governor actually announced additional lifting of certain restrictions moving occupancy percentages for restaurants and other places up from 25% to 40%. And there are some interesting things about the Massachusetts gaming environment that, I think, will provide additional short-term growth as restrictions are lifted. For example, we've never been able to open craps there. There's a big demand for craps, but that has not been allowed to date. And we're hopeful that will be allowed quite soon. On the table game side, we are capacity constrained on the weekends in particular, now that we're offering – now that we're opened 24/7, but we only have three seats on a table game. Whereas I think almost all other jurisdictions around the company – around the country are at four seats. And so we're quite hopeful that some of those things and those restrictions will continue to lift as again, the vaccinations roll out and the numbers look good. The trends that Encore Boston Harbor are quite strong. Our margins should be quite good there, and we're very optimistic about the future of our business at Encore Boston Harbor. Now looking at Wynn Interactive. So Wynn Interactive, we're very excited about, and I know that everybody's talking about the online business as they should be. Just looking at the five states that were legal and offering online gaming and online sports betting in November and December. If you run rate those numbers, just in those five states, it's roughly a $4 billion to $5 billion market just in those states. So that's quite an opportunity. And if you think about all of the other states that will likely be rolling out sports betting, and maybe some online gaming, clearly this total addressable market is quite large. Its multiples more than it is now. And it's one that we are very focused on. We bought BetBull in November. We've consolidated it. We've added over a 100 people to the team. We recently launched in Michigan and in Colorado. And our gaming revenues have increased more than 50% since our last call. And we're currently on a run rate of about $50 million in our Wynn Interactive business. And so the way we look at this is because each state will take time to roll out. That's actually a benefit for us. We have the brands. We're releasing new features on our product every week. We're beefing up our team. We have some very exciting media deals and partnership deals that we're working on. And as we build our strength and build our brand campaign and roll out in these states, we think we're going to be in a very good position by the back half of this year is the NFL season kicks off again. So Wynn Interactive is a big focus of ours and we're seeing all the right things that we were hoping that we would see right now in particular with the revenues growing almost 50% over the last three months. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Craig to talk a little bit more about the numbers.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. Similar to the past few calls, I'd like to start with a few points on liquidity and operating expense. As of January 31, our global cash and liquidity position was $3.39 billion. In Macau, we had approximately $2.24 billion of available liquidity as of January 31. In the U.S., we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.15 billion on January 31 with a substantially lower daily cash burn globally compared to Q3 2020. Meanwhile, we continue to be focused on operating expenses. Compared to the fourth quarter of 2019, our global property and corporate operating expenses per day excluding gaming tax of $4.6 million, decreased nearly 40% year-over-year compared to $7.6 million in Q4 2019, with our FTE count decreasing by approximately 8,700 or 34%. We expect a meaningful portion of these savings to drive operating leverage as business volumes return. In Macau as Matt noted, we generated $39.4 million of EBITDA in the quarter with particular strength around the December holiday season. Our EBITDA was driven by encouraging gaming and non-gaming performance, as well as a continued focus on cost controls. Gross gaming revenue in Q4 2020 was approximately 32% of Q4 2019 levels led by the premium mass segment. With respect to cost controls, our OpEx again, excluding gaming tax was $2.2 million per day. This is down from approximately $3 million per day in Q4 2019, and only up modestly from $2 million per day in Q3 2020 due primarily to an increase in variable costs as business volumes return. At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $21 million of adjusted property EBITDA from a business that remains heavily weighted to weekend occupancy. In the casino, we saw broad-based strength across key segments with slot handle and table drop reaching 85% and 72% of Q4 2019 levels respectively during the quarter. We remain focused on cost discipline in Las Vegas with our OpEx per day, excluding gaming taxes decreasing to $1.6 million per day in Q4 2020 from $3 million per day in Q4 2019 and from $1.8 million per day in Q3 2020. As Matt noted, this COVID accelerated and holiday travel was discouraged around the already seasonally challenging holiday period. The back half of the quarter was weaker than the front. In this environment of suppressed demand we expect 1Q 2021 performance overall to be subdued, but we do expect pockets of strong demand in February, as Matt mentioned around Superbowl and President's Day weekend. We believe that a combination of meaningful permanent cost saves, along with increased group demand position as well to accelerate our recovery as we move into the back half of 2021. In Boston, as noted on the Q3 call and by Matt just now, we generated record adjusted property EBITDA of $11.3 million in October, but curtailed operating hours stemming from the state stay at home order negatively impacted EBITDA during November and December. We were pleased by the recent decision to lift stay at home orders. And we are now picking up where we left off in October. Similar to Las Vegas, we've remained very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day, excluding gaming tax of $680,000 in Q4 2020, compared to $1.3 million per day in Q4 2019 and $750,000 per day in Q3 2020. Turning to Wynn Interactive, are 72% owned, online gaming and sports betting subsidiary continues to advance our sports betting and online casino strategy with current annualized run rate, gross gaming revenue of around $50 million based on results in January and early February. WynnBET our online – our U.S. online sports betting and casino gaming application has now been live in New Jersey for several months. And we recently launched in Colorado and Michigan. As Matt mentioned, we are simultaneously scaling operations, improving our brand positioning, making product improvements and launching a new state. We expect to continue to see growth in the business with much of that growth back half loaded, particularly as we enter the 2021 NFL season. Our CapEx in the quarter was $29 million. As noted last quarter, the vast majority of our CapEx plans remain on hold, and we are only proceeding with our highest priority projects. With that, operator, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Carlo Santarelli. [Deutsche Bank] Go ahead. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey guys. Thank you. Craig, I'll start with you first. You talked obviously a lot about some of the cost cuts and noted, I think on a segment level basis, some of the declines in Macau obviously, and not adjusting for any hold or anything else that obviously would have influenced the numbers a little bit. It looks like the year-over-year was down about 25% in terms of how you guys think about the permanent reductions relative to some of the variable stuff that will come back. How are you thinking about kind of the run rate as business levels normalize in terms of permanence?
Craig Billings:
A good question Carlo. I think, we'll see as the market progresses and volume starts to come back, you can see that we had a slight uptake in the quarter as we moved from kind of zero at the mid – at the earlier portion of the year into that kind of 30% of Q4 2019 levels of volumes. So a decent chunk of those are permanent, but I must, of course caution you. It's not the same as the U.S., right? Staffing flexibility, just isn't the same as the U.S. So some of those will come back, but we feel like we're appropriately sized and the cost base is appropriately sized for the business volumes that we have today.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you for that. And then Matt or Ciaran, one of the guys from Macau, if you guys could kind of provide, and I know it's not an easy answer, but any thoughts that you have around kind of the cadence of sort of visa loosening and what you guys are potentially hearing as it pertains to that topic?
Matt Maddox:
Ian, why don't you take that one?
Ian Coughlan:
So we were very happy with the cadence of running from October golden week into the Christmas and Western New Year period, where we had two weeks of extremely strong occupancy and great play on the floor, particularly in premium mass. And quite frankly, there was a lot of anticipation about Chinese New Year, and clearly we had a number of outbreaks in China during January, late December and January that have curtailed a lot of travel and understandably the authorities and the PRC have been working hard to contain the outbreaks. The cases have dropped from the 100s to the teens. So that's very positive, but it has impacted the booking cycle for Chinese New Year. We do have a lot of player interest still in Chinese New Year. We have a number of our bigger players reserving suites and villas. And they will potentially travel, but certainly it's affected bookings throughout town. So we're probably looking at more like an October golden week situation than the Christmas and Western New Year period. However, we believe that it's a temporary setback, a very temporary setback as winter is ending. The recent outbreaks have been contained and vaccines are starting to get rolled out. They're getting rolled out obviously by the millions in China, but locally in Macau, we've just received our first delivery of a 100,000 vaccines. And in late March, we have a further delivery and distribution of another 100,000 were a small population. In terms of visas opening up more and more people being allowed access into Macau. That's obviously very fluid and very linked to containment in China, but there has behind the scenes being a pickup in number one optimism, and number two discussions between the authorities and the Greater Bay Area between Hong Kong, the PRC and Macau about the reestablishment of a travel bubble. So people are looking to the future. There is light at the end of the tunnel. This is a temporary setback, cadences frankly demand is out there and we're priming our properties to take full advantage of that. We command the luxury sector and we believe that we're ready to take more than our fair market share. We proved in Q4, we built market share up to nearly 16% and we believe that there is more market share for us to take, particularly given that we've commanded the luxury sector. And those are the customers that are coming back.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, Ian. Thank you so much, guys.
Operator:
Our next question is from Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Hello everybody. Matt, you spent a decent amount of time in your opening remarks talking about the opportunities in the premium mass segment. Can you talk about how the premium mass segment that the volumes in the fourth quarter compared relative to, or how they did relative to overall mass table troubleshooting with them, on my math here down 51% year-over-year, which by the way was better than, I guess the one cooperator who's reported fourth quarter results so far. And I'm presuming the premium mass is better than that. And can you talk about what's driving that improvement versus the base mass or versus I think we all probably understand what's going on with the VIP and certainly with the junkets. And then you also mentioned related to premium mass [ph], and you also mentioned that, I guess, expectations about month over month improvement. So is the premium mass performance in January, did that exceed December? And did you see that trend that sequential improvement month over month throughout the fourth quarter?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure, Joe. I don't want to say that we are seeing that in January because as Ian pointed out, there were some restrictions that were put in place, continued restrictions in China as there were some small outbreaks in COVID, but the way that it was handled and pretty much quickly put out has been extraordinary. I was on the phone on a zoom call actually with someone in Shanghai last night who was just talking about it's life as usual. I mean, we're back, we're going to clubs, we’re going out, they're really ready to travel and go to Macau. And so there's a real sense of optimism when you're talking to people in China and we are very well positioned for that customer, that is the premium segment. Yes, the premium segment did better than the core mass segment. I don't want to get into the exact numbers, but it was not down 50% as the overall mass was. But what you know about our business Joe is where we do not need 50,000 people a day walking through our facilities to get back to our EBITDA target. We require significantly less people because we cater to the higher end customer, and those are going to be the customers in our opinion, that are going to be traveling first. They're going to be the ones that are coming back first, and we're targeting that segment. And we think that we're going to get more market share in the premium mass segment than we have in the past.
Joe Greff:
Thank you for that.
Operator:
Our next question is from Shaun Kelly with Bank of America. Go ahead. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelly:
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. One of the – maybe you switched to Las Vegas for a quick question. You give some great commentary on how well the casino performance has been. And I think it's been decently consistent around town. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on, we don't ask a lot about the casino block specifically for when, but was wondering if you'd give us a little bit more high – kind of high level color on how important is that casino and rated play business for win in Las Vegas, any directional sense of how important that is and what you guys could do to maybe lean into that just to maybe stabilize things and continue to perform like you kind of already are.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Hi, this is Marilyn. And I can't stress enough how important that casino businesses to us. We have really leaped in. And we have seen that casino segment of the hotel be stronger and stronger and resilient. And so our casino hosted play almost the vast majority of our play is rated play. The casino host team has done an unbelievable job in getting these guests to return over and over. The events that we planned, the database that we have really, the improvements that we made in 2020 for all those tools have really come through exceptionally strong. And in those areas where we have unhosted rated business, we launched win rewards in December, and that has been so far a very smooth launch. And we're looking forward to having enough of those players come. Really Superbowl will be the first opportunity that we've had to do that. So the casino marketing team has been the stars of the COVID situation. And so they're driving the bus right now.
Matt Maddox:
I mean, if you look at just the market – gaming market share, we used to be around 8% to 9% of the market, say 2018, 2019, and now we're closer to 15% of the market and that's not by accident. I think all the measures that we've taken to make sure that this place as it's restaurant open, it is fun. It feels – it is very safe. The staff continue to be highly motivated and focused on service. We've been taking share in the domestic high end. It's a fact. We've been seeing players that we've never seen before. And we're going to continue to lean into that segment because I actually think that we're very well positioned to take market share.
Shaun Kelly:
Thank you both. And then maybe it's just my follow-up, to switch over to Wynn Interactive. Just, could you give us a status or a little bit of a thought process around marketing? It sounds like you've already made some progress and have lined up a lot of strong partners to get some of these states launch. When is the right time to kind of lean in on the marketing spend? Have you already, or do you really expect that’s going to be kind of back half loaded as you mentioned Craig, when maybe the players are ready to receive that message around some of the seasonality?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Well, first of all, it's incredibly important to make sure that your product is in a state where you feel like you can scale it. So, we're making – we're doing product drops really every two weeks. And our focus there is making sure that we can achieve market parity in order to do that. I would say that's our number one focus. And it consumes 40% of our time on Wynn Interactive. Then the other key component as you rightly point out are kind of two parts of marketing performance marketing, where you are actually kind of driving installs through ad networks, through Facebook, et cetera. And we certainly have begun to hit the gas on that component of our marketing because you can do it in a very targeted way. The second component of marketing is really third-party relationships and third-party partnerships, mass media, if you will. And that's a little bit of a chicken or the egg, because before you engage in large scale mass media, you want to make sure that your product is where you want it to be, and for us, that's a high standard given our brand. And you want to make sure that you are in enough states to where any bleed that you are experiencing into states where it's not legal is acceptable. And so, you should expect to see a lot more from us on the third-party mass media marketing side, over the course of 2021. But we're doing performance marketing today in order to begin to scale the product.
Shaun Kelly:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question is from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Go ahead your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Hi, how is it going? Just in terms of Macau can you just update us on your latest thinking on the VIP business and maybe structural risk there? Thank you.
Craig Billings :
Yes, sure. So, we've been focused on the future of Macau and clearly, we're leaning in on the premium mass segment and on the mass segment. The VIP business is not going away. But it is definitely going to be less, whether it's 20% of 2019 or 35% of 2019 in the future, it's hard to say. But it's going to exist, it's evolving, it's consolidating. And so we'll still be a player in VIP, it will still be a large contributor to our company and to our bottom line. But we're really focused on the premium mass segment. Ian, do you have anything to add on that?
Ian Coughlan:
Just looking back to December, our VIP got back to 35% of December in 2019 numbers. So it's certainly not a small contributor. It still continues to grow and get better. The pace of recovery is obviously slower than the premium mass. But even in January we had a lot of activity from our big players. So people in our premium direct program. So it’s certainly not faded away completely. It is growing. And it is tied to the health of the general market. The pace of recovery is just a bit slower. So it will continue to be part of our business.
Craig Billings:
I do think that there will be significantly less VIP players as junkets consolidate and fall out, but there will still be very large VIP players. And our focus is on that direct business and on the very high end, as opposed to having lots of junket operators trying to drive lots of VIP customers. It's really more about – it's really about the premium VIP segment. And that's where we've been focused,
Thomas Allen:
Very helpful color. And then just on the interactive side, now that you are in three states, any updated thinking about just how competitive the market is and any concerns there? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
The market is quite competitive clearly. But, I think, that – I have been surprised at the size of the market. I think Michigan has been a really interesting test case for how quickly it's ramped and the size of both the sports and the online gaming. So yes, it's tough competition, but I think, the market is larger than we anticipated. And there's going to be plenty of room for great brands and great product. And this, we think 2021 is going to be our year to really get into this.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. Good luck.
Craig Billings:
Thanks.
Operator:
Your next question is from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Go ahead, your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi, thanks. Just as a follow-up on that, the comment around consolidation VIP if we were to go back to 2015, 2016, it seemed like a similar expectation was out there for continued restriction, VIP play. Then that business came back very strong in 2017, 2018. How would you compare and contrast what is happening now versus then? And how quickly could you pivot back if you saw liquidity ramp back up? In other words, do you need to reconfigure again, or is it as simple as slotting the junkets back in?
Craig Billings :
That's a good question. I think, to ramp VIP back up, it's actually not that complicated. You can just slot junkets in. But we really think that Macau is transforming much more into a tourist destination focused on more than just gaming. And so our focus is on the non-gaming side. It's on the premium mass side. I really don't anticipate the VIP market snapping back like it did after 2016. I think it will definitely be there. It will definitely be a large market, but the growth driver is going to be on the premium mass side and the mass side.
Stephen Grambling:
Understood. And then moving back to Las Vegas and you had some good commentary on convention bookings. Maybe if we peel back the onion a little bit, what have you seen or heard about corporate demand since the vaccine results were announced and rollout started? And has, I guess, feedback driven the healthy passport strategy, or is that more regulated tourism?
Craig Billings :
No, that feedback is really win-driven because everyone is very cautious and no one really knows what they can do. So, they look at current restrictions and rooms and they say, you can't have more than 250 people. How can we hold a convention? So, there's more questions than answers. And what we're trying to do is solve those questions. And so, we'll have to get our state comfortable that we can exceed the current limits and we can continue to have more people in one room by doing the things that we're doing. And I do think that's one of the reasons we haven't seen a lot of fallout quite yet in the back half of the year, because a lot of corporates are still waiting to see if there will be solutions for people to get back together in a large way and we're trying to provide those. So, of the 170,000 room nights, we have booked, of course, there's going to be cancellations. And there's going to be wash and it's hard to predict. But people are more sanguine now about the back half of the year than I've seen on the corporate side. And we're just trying to show the way with our COVID testing lab and our vaccination center.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. Thanks so much. Best of luck.
Craig Billings:
Operator, I think, we have time for one last question.
Operator:
Okay. Our final question is from David Katz with Jefferies. Go ahead your line is open.
David Katz:
Hi good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. In the context that we often discuss the prospects of concession, explorations and how that rolls, and that information that's knowable obviously is extremely difficult. Thoughts or strategies, how do you sort of deal with that? And is there a realistic, more realistic possibility that this is sort of a deferred circumstance that maybe more than a couple of years away?
Craig Billings:
David I'll answer that question the same way we do each quarter, which is we continue to heavily invest in the community. We're known as good corporate partners. We're known as one of the top employers. And what we want to do is provide real value for Macau and for the Greater Bay Area. So, we understand our place there. We're good partners with everyone in Macau and in the Greater Bay Area. And we're going to continue to do that and work closely with the government as they determine what the concession renewal process will be.
David Katz:
Got it. Thank you. You've covered a lot. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
You are welcome.
Matt Maddox:
All right. Thank you everybody for joining us. We'll see you next quarter.
Operator:
That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I would now turn the line over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan; Linda Chen; Ciaran Carruthers; Frederic Luvisutto; and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig. And thank you for joining us today everyone. I'm sure everybody's glued to the television watching these exciting election results right now. So we'll get right into it on our results here. I'd like to start in Macau. So the third quarter in Macau was really very similar to the second. There wasn't a lot to talk about. We're still seeing roughly 8% to 10% of our visitor volumes compared to pre-COVID levels. And it was really – there was just not a whole lot going on. But as everyone has been seeing, the government of Macau with its deliberate approach and steadfastness has been working very hard to continue to open Macau. Macau was probably one of the safest places on the planet, hasn’t had COVID case in months and months and months. And everyone there is really excited to see the progress that's going on. So as an example, in the month of August in Macau, our EBITDA line was negative $40 million, because there was very little revenue and we were carrying our costs. Our team's doing a great job saving money where we can, being more efficient while protecting the local employment and all of our employees. However, in October, we started to see those trends change. So we went from 10% of our normal visitor volumes up to almost 30%, and it wasn't just over Golden Week, it was actually throughout the month. And in fact, I looked at our visitor data from November 2, 3, and 4, it went balanced, before I walked in here and we're seeing roughly 6,000 people a day come in the building, pre-COVID, that number was 18,000. So those trends that we saw in early October are continuing into November. From a revenue standpoint in October, mass drop on the table side was roughly 40% of our pre-COVID levels. And on the junket side, which everyone's been talking about the junket business, what's going to happen to it. Is it going to survive? Where is it going to go? Clearly it's changing. Clearly it will be, even as we come through this than it was before. But it's still very real. We saw 30% roughly between 25% and 30% in turnover compared to our pre-COVID levels in the junket space. So that activity produced actual positive EBITDA for us in October. So if you think about it, we went from a negative $40 million in August, which was normal, similar in July, et cetera, to a positive $6 million in October, quite a big swing. And what we are optimistic about in Macau is the way that everything has been handled there, it doesn't appear to be one step forward, one step backward, one step forward, it's been a very deliberate approach, very thoughtful. And it just feels like we are – and the market is just going to continue to get better. I don't know at what speed, I don't know what pace, but the overall mood, attitude and interjectory is quite good. In fact, looking in October at our retail sales, they were roughly flat with last year and our top five stores in Macau were up 25% compared to last year. So there's real consumer – pent-up consumer demand and it's just going to take time for the market to continue to open. But we feel really good about the current trajectory that's going on there. Moving to North America. As we talked about on the last call, we are not going to sacrifice our brand or our culture to make an extra few dollars here or there. That means, while we have significantly less staff approximately 7,400 less staff globally, now that we did pre-COVID, we are still operating at a five-star level in Macau and in North America. We are focused on making sure we have the highest room rates in the market. But we've also been focusing on making sure that we continue to breakeven or make money. And in Las Vegas, we made $20 million in the third quarter, both adjusted closer to $28 million. Some of the things that are encouraging that we're seeing in Las Vegas is we are taking share in the casino segment. We're seeing new domestic customers that we've never seen before, that previously were lifers at some of our competitors. And I think for all of the reasons that we've been laying out from our security protocols of checking everyone, when they walk in to our COVID to all of our restaurants being open, we're beginning to continue – we're not beginning, we are taking market share on the casino side. Slots in the market were down over 33% during the quarter and we were down 16%. Table drop was down about 35% in the quarter and we were down 25%. So we're just seeing more business. We're seeing higher end customers, not a lot, but we're seeing – I believe, we are gaining share on that front. In October in Las Vegas, we actually had our best month. We generated roughly $14 million of EBITDA in October. We had a little bit of hold lock in there maybe $2 million, but overall, it was a very good month. Now, as everyone on the call knows, Las Vegas has seasonality and we're coming in to the slow time. So COVID cases are picking up in the U.S. obviously, and November, December are quite slow in Las Vegas and have been heavily reliant on group. So our team – so October will not be repeated in November and September, but it shows that – when there is just a little bit of business with the way we've restructured our expense line, the amount of operating leverage that we have now revenue quickly converts into EBITDA. And our focus as things do get a little slower during the winter is to make sure that we stay EBITDA positive. That's what we're going to do in Las Vegas. And I would think – it's hard to tell, but I think Wynn Las Vegas probably was the most profitable integrated resort casino on the strip, or if not the most, it was definitely at the top of the list. So our strategy is working, we’re maintaining our brand, we’re maintaining our culture and we're making a little bit of money. Moving to Boston. Encore Boston Harbor is really starting to hit its stride. So we generated roughly $26 million in EBITDA, significantly more than we ever have in the past during the quarter. And our team has really learned how to be a super regional operator. We focus during the shutdown on how to run Encore Boston Harbor differently than we were, because clearly what we were doing was not quite right. And so we have – we've had a laser focus on the casino segment. And what it is that those customers want and how we're going to deliver it. And if you look at our results, slot handle per day, just overall volume per day was actually up over last year. It's pretty extraordinary, when you think about we 1,800 slot machines open during this third quarter, compared to 3,000 last year and volume was higher on a daily basis. Wynn per unit was over $400 on 1,800 units, so I think $407 compared to $219 last year. So Encore Boston Harbor is really starting to understand how and we are starting to understand what that market is, how to market to those customers and how to monetize there. Massachusetts recently just this week announced that starting over the weekend, restaurants, bars, casinos, et cetera, will need to close, COVID-related, starting at 9:30 at night. That's clearly a setback for us, but it's very temporary. And I'm sure it's the right thing to do from a health perspective. The government of Massachusetts has done a terrific job throughout all of this, managing this from Governor Baker to the Massachusetts Gaming Commission. So we view it as a temporary setback, but it's really nothing that we're worried about because our business model is sound. And I think that we're going to continue to see increases in revenue and increase in EBITDA out of Encore Boston Harbor. Moving onto – one more topic, this is a new one for us. There's been a lot going on in the gaming world concerning sports betting and in particular online sports betting. We've been very focused on this topic for the last couple of years, but we've been admittedly quiet about it. In 2019, working with Craig Billings, who is helping me run this effort. We decided that we wanted to focus on product first. So how could we have the best product, because that is who we are when it comes to sports betting, online sports betting? We scoured the earth and we found a company in the UK called BetBull. And the Founders and the operators of that company, we had a great cultural fit. They were the Founders of Bwin and Party and understand this intimately and they’ve built a product in the UK, it was really very social. So the engagement that they had with their customers was quite extraordinary and therefore, their KPIs were really, really good. So when you see your friend making a bet, it will pop up on your phone. Do you want to follow your friend? It's very parlay heavy. It moves you into chat rooms quickly. It's fun. It's a lot of fun. And their user acquisition costs in the UK and their LTVs were quite attractive relative to industry standards. So we made an investment in that company in 2019 and began working on U.S. rollout with them. We then move forward and we acquired that company. We own 70% of that company now, and they are a fully integrated in, we have 150 people inside Wynn Interactive and we've begun our U.S. rollout. So quietly, we can now talk about it. We have signed market access deals in the United States in nine states that represents about 25% of the total addressable market. I think a lot of the analysts on this call say that that's roughly $20 billion to $30 billion. So we already have access to 25% of that. And we're in very active dialogue, definitive documentation in many cases on seven additional states, which represents another third of that market. So the way that we're going, we think that we'll have more than half of the total addressable market through market access deals, underway in winner active in fairly short order. We have launched WynnBET our product in New Jersey. We're learning a lot. We have product releases every two weeks and so far and Craig will talk a little bit more about this, our CPAs are quite good and it's encouraging what we're seeing. So we will be rolling out this product into various markets where we have access. And it's something that we have a lot of focused on. We've invested $80 million within – into that company to focus on user acquisition and continued development over the next few months. And we've had lots and lots of interest from various people wanting to co-invest, wanting to be a part of it. And what I've been focused on along with Craig is, we're going to build an amazing product and have a real business opportunity and roll it out. And that's where we are and feel very good that, while currently Wynn Interactive does roughly $20 million in revenue, that number is going to grow at a exponential rate as we move forward. So with that, I think I'll go ahead and open it up to Craig to talk a little bit more about the quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. I'd like to start with a few points on liquidity and operating expenses. As of October 31, our global cash and liquidity position was over $3.4 billion, providing us with significant runway to weather the pandemic. In Macau, we had approximately $2.2 billion of available liquidity as of October 31, in the U.S., we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.2 billion on October 31, with substantially lower domestic daily cash burn, as demand has started to return to each of our markets. Meanwhile, we continue to be very focused on operating expense. Compared to the fourth quarter of 2019, our global FTE count has decreased by nearly 7,500 or 30%. And our global payroll and non-variable expenses declined by nearly $200 million or 34% leading to consolidated OpEx per day, inclusive of corporate and exclusive of gaming taxes of $4.8 million compared to $7.6 million in Q4 2019. While these are often difficult decisions, many of the changes we made to achieve these decreases are permanent and will drive operating leverage as business volumes return. It's important to note that the 3Q OpEx numbers I just mentioned, and those that I will mention throughout my remarks exclude the benefit of a reversal of certain payroll and incentive accruals totaling approximately $50 million, which are reflected in our earnings release. In Macau as Matt noted, we have been encouraged by performance during October, as we delivered positive normalized EBITDA during the month driven by solid gaming and non-gaming performance, as well as a continued focus on cost control. Gross gaming revenue per day in October was approximately 33% Q4 2019 with premium mass strengthening into the later portion of the month. With respect to cost controls, our OpEx again, excluding gaming taxes and excluding the reversal of certain performance-based incentives accruals in the third quarter was approximately $2 million, this is down from approximately $3 million in Q4 2019. At Wynn Las Vegas we generated $20.3 million of adjusted property EBITDA, or approximately $28 million adjusted for lower than normal hold from a business that is heavily weighted to weakened occupancy. In the casino, we saw broad-based strength across key segments with both table drop and/or reaching 78% of Q4 2019 levels during the quarter. We remain focused on cost discipline in Las Vegas with our OpEx per day, excluding gaming taxes and excluding the reversal of those performance-based incentive accruals decreasing to $1.8 million per day in Q3 2020 from $3 million per day in Q4 2019. In this environment of suppress group demand, we expect recent trends to generally continued throughout Q1 2021. We believe the combination of meaningful permanent cost saves along with increased group demand position as well to accelerate our recovery as we move into the back half of 2021. In Boston, we reopened in July with a number of safety related operating restrictions in play. As Matt mentioned, our reopening plan there was focused on operating only those amenities that support the casino. Overall, we have seen encouraging trends in the casino, particularly in slots with handle per day operating day up approximately 5% versus Q4 2019. Similar to Las Vegas, we made a number of operating and staffing adjustments resulting in daily OpEx down from Q4 2019, by approximately 40% to approximately $750,000 per day in 3Q 2020. Our CapEx in the quarter was $69 million. As noted last quarter, the vast majority of our CapEx plans remain on hold and we're only proceeding with the highest priority projects. Finally, in October, we entered into a series of transactions resulting in the creation of Wynn Interactive through the merger of BetBull, our strategic partner for digital gaming and several Wynn owned entity. I'd like to welcome the BetBull team to the Wynn family. This new subsidiary Wynn Interactive is 71% owned by Wynn Resorts and positions us well to advance our sports betting and online casino business during 2021. WynnBET our sports betting and online casino application has been live in New Jersey for several months. And while it's early days, initial returns on our user acquisition spend have been encouraging. Over the next two quarters, we anticipate going live in Colorado, Michigan and Indiana. We have posted a series of slides on our IR website, further outlining the Wynn Interactive business. We're excited to tell you more about that business as it develops in 2021. With that, we'll now open up the call to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, guys, good afternoon and thanks for all the details. Matt, as you see kind of Macau is starting to ramp up and shape up. Obviously, and you guys mentioned it in your remarks, the premium mass performance has kind of picked up through October. When you think about the VIP environment and the premium mass environment, if you look out – look over the next one to two to three years, relative to 2019, how would you characterize your expectations for the mix of those two segments within the GGR channel?
Matt Maddox:
So if you look at our business model, Carlos, we're not reliant on 50,000 people coming through our doors a day, we are in the premium business. So we feel quite good about the premium mass and premium spot segment. There is continued customer demand. Lots of people like to point out, various issues. But when you think about Macau, it's positioned and how important it is in the Greater Bay area and the development of Macau into a global destination – global tourist destination for the Greater Bay Area, we feel very, very good about our position in particular, on the premium mass side over the next couple of years. We have the right product. As far as the junkets, again, lots of conversation about junkets that business is not dead as some people like to say. We saw – get back to 25% to 30% of its previous levels. I believe it will continue to consolidate with some of the largest operators and we will continue to participate in it. So I don't anticipate that junket business will be back to 2019 levels, because it is consolidating and it is shrinking, but the Macau market overall is very well positioned to be one of the top tourist destinations in Asia over the next three years. Operator, next question.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everyone. Just kind of going back to the trends that you saw in Macau in October and month to date, there is a big difference in terms of the premium mass, looking at it versus a year ago, in terms of minimum bet, length of stay, its ability to move around between your Peninsula property and your Coast side property? And is there a big difference in the recovery, whether it's on the Peninsula or Coast side as well?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. Ian, why don't you take that answer – that question?
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. We've noticed very strong premium mass pickup in both properties and they are different destinations, but one hasn't grown at the expense of the other. So we're very encouraged by premium mass activity in Wynn Macau and Wynn Macau Palace. In terms of the type of player, their wallet size, their length of stay, the biggest noticeable factor has been their length of stay previously it was approximately two nights, it's been up to three and four nights over the last six weeks. So we're very encouraged. Both our properties are niche, luxury products that are completely geared for premium mass and VIP. And we've really benefited from that, we've grown market share. And looking out to the future, we see premium mass continuing to grow on both properties.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thank you, Ian. And then Craig, my follow-up question is on Wynn Interactive. Can you talk about the future intentions to fund and invest in Wynn Interactive? I guess, when you look at it now, how sufficiently capitalized it's a fund growth into Colorado, Michigan, Indiana and in other markets?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Joe. First of all, we're big believers in the segment. The digital business is, as you know, is all about customer lifetime value and marketing spend to obtain that lifetime value. So our marketing plan involves a combination of out-of-home advertising partnerships like you saw with NASCAR and digital marketing. We seated the business with $80 million and we'll deploy marketing spend at scale as long as it continues driving the appropriate customer lifetime value.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
And Joe, it's Matt. We've had a lot of interest, as you could imagine from various very large financial investors to other strategics to public markets wanting to be a part of this. And we've been really focused on making sure that we build this business correctly, that we own the vast majority of it. And I'm sure over time there could be other funding sources, but only on our terms.
Joe Greff:
And just as a follow-up Matt or Craig on this, do you have an option to buy out the other 29 tenants under pure conditions or anything like that?
Matt Maddox:
No. We actually love our partners. The Founder of BetBull is in that stub equity, Norbert, one of the founders of Bwin is in that stub equity. We're delighted to have our partners.
Joe Greff:
Thanks, guys.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix from Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you so much. First, just as a housekeeping and I know we've kind of moved past this period with the kind of power in October, but can you just help us know what the whole adjusted EBITDA was in Macau for the quarter?
Craig Billings:
It was essentially as reported.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. So the one offset the other.
Craig Billings:
Yes. That's right.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. And Craig, the detail on the OpEx by segment was super helpful. And I know you've talked about a lot of the costs that you removed, but I would have seen that as we got into a more normalized environment, some of those costs will return. So if we're trying to model out looking into the future, how should we think about the OpEx, again, assuming that some of those cost will return?
Craig Billings:
Yes. It's a good question, Felicia. Thank you. In the U.S. both properties Q3 OpEx was pretty consistent from reopening through October once you adjust for those accrual reversals that I mentioned. So we think those OpEx levels are reflective at the current environment and certainly sustainable for the near-term, particularly with the adjusted hours at Encore Las Vegas. In Macau, we saw a modest increase in variable expenses per day as business volumes returned in October. OpEx was up a little over 10% compared to the $2 million per day I mentioned in Q3, again, adjusting for those accrual reversals. Of course, that's compares to revenues that were up a lot more than that, which is why we were EBITDA positive. Overtime, a good chunk of the cost savings that we have implemented will be retained. And that's particularly true in the U.S. where I think we're actually running our businesses differently, while maintaining the appropriate level of brand standards. So it's a little early to give you guidance on what portion will come back, but a significant chunk will stay out of the business. And that's how we'll drive operating leverage as the business returns.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Thank you. And then just moving to BETWIN and Matt, you said that the curfew would be shirtless, as we think about the impact of the curfew, what is your customer mix usually look like at night versus during the day. There was an effect during the day or the traffic is heavier at night. What kind of impact do you think that you might have on the property?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So clearly it will have an impact, so more than half of our revenue is generated between – at night. So closing at 9:30 is going to have quite an impact. What we're going to do is, we're going to have a much lower operating expense. So we're likely going to see our FTE count go down by somewhere between 670 and 1000 people during this. So we will continue – I believe, we'll continue to be able to be EBITDA positive, but it's unclear how much. We want to stay above zero during this closure, because again, more than half of our revenue is generated at the time when we'll be closed. And so I think some of that will come when we're open and we're going to offset it with expenses. Brian, our Property President from Encore Boston Harbor. Brian, do you have anything to add to that?
Brian Gullbrants:
No. I think in continuing with all our marketing efforts, we're not changing a thing. We're really focused on making sure we're driving business, while controlling all expenses. So the team's done a great job and we'll continue to do that through this and adjust as necessary.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great. Thank you so much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Great. Thanks for taking my question, everyone. Just maybe for Matt or Craig, as we think about Macau a little bit longer term, and you're starting to see this rebounding trajectory. I just wanted to kind of think through the segments. And do you think there's any particular reason just given the product that you have in the market that you shouldn't be able to return largely to your normal kind of pre-COVID market shares? Is there anything that's changing enough that you think that that sort of that market share that you've had in the past, is no longer plausible? Or do you think that, when some of the junket pieces recover in particular and given the product that you could still do okay there?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So I think, just to be totally fair, our top line market share will likely might not get quite back to 2019 just because the junket business will unlikely get back to where it was in 2019. But when you look at what the EBITDA contribution was out of that segment pre-COVID, I'm talking about junket business, it was between 10% and 15%. So our EBITDA and EBITDA share, I think we'll be able to get back to the pre-COVID levels because we were already very premium mass and premium spot heavy. And that has been the focus of Linda Chen and Kenny and our full marketing team. And they're doing a very good job there. And I think we're really well positioned given that the overall crowds or customers will likely be less. I don't think Macau will be getting back to a hundred thousand people a day in the short term. So focusing on the higher end in the premium segment, which is where we are, I think will actually be an advantage in terms of our EBITDA and EBITDA share in the market.
Shaun Kelley:
Thanks for that. And sort of as a follow-up on the same theme. I mean, Craig, you walk through some of the operating expense statistics and you talked about them for Vegas, but you've also been able to probably optimize Macau a little bit more. And appreciate that, the headcount piece is not particularly negotiable, but there's going to be some mix shift here as it can relate to mass versus VIP and other things. So do you think there's prospects for sort of higher go-forward margins in Macau and does any insight or color you can provide on how you think at least the non-tax OpEx piece is playing out there?
Craig Billings:
Sure. First of all, the team has done a tremendous job continuing to support local employment, but dealing with controllable OpEx, they've implemented any number of programs with really with every dollar matters approach. And I can tell you, we're incredibly happy with how they've done that. A number of those saves, which are admittedly less than in the U.S., because you're right, labor is less flexible. A number of those saves will be permanent. I alluded – actually I stated in my prepared remarks that OpEx came back about a little over 10% in October relative to the $2 million per day that we experienced in Q3, which was reflective of some of that variable expense coming back as players came back. But a reasonable chunk of what they've done will provide margin enhancements over time.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. On the interactive side, there's a lot of discussion about how competitive the New Jersey market is having operated there for a little. And Craig and the team – the Wynn team having operated in Europe, does that concern you at all? And then can you also just talk about the NASCAR partnership a little bit? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Happy to do that. So first of all, again, this is a business of customer lifetime value and cost per acquisition. And customer lifetime value and cost per acquisition have to make sense in order to deploy marketing spend. We have a tremendous brand, that brand has – will we believe and has in our social casino segment allowed us to acquire at a rate that is cheaper than the overall prevailing market. We intend to leverage that brand. We intend to leverage the land-based assets that we can bring to bear to be competitive. At the same time, every two weeks, as we're putting out a release, we're going to make our product better and better and make it the fitting of Wynn standards. And we think that that will drive an outside's customer lifetime value. And so, if you can drive a higher LTV and you can drive a lower CPA, you can scale a business like this, and we intend to do so. With respect to NASCAR, we have a long history with NASCAR. Actually, we we've hosted them a number of times at Wynn Las Vegas and the group and convention business. We have a tremendous amount of respect for them as an organization. And we were delighted to partner with them in pursuit of a license in Virginia. Today that relationship is very focused on Virginia, but we'll see where it goes.
Thomas Allen:
Good color. And then just on Macau, can you just talk a bit about like the competition in the premium mass segment? Are you seeing any increase level of competition or anything, anyone doing anything irrational? Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
It's Matt, from my perspective, it seems like everyone's being – promotions are in check. People are just focused on trying to do what they can and watch the market come back. But Ian is there anything or Linda that you'd like to add to that.
Ian Coughlan:
There hasn't been any shift in increased promotional activity. Everybody's being very measured and careful about it. So I don't – nobody's gone crazy at this point. There's enough business going around the premium mass the story and the tone we feel particularly encouraged because it's our market when we've got two niche these properties, so nothing unusual.
Matt Maddox:
Operator, we'll take one more question.
Operator:
Our final question comes from Stephen Grambling from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Hi. Thanks for speaking me in. Two questions, first on Wynn Interactive. As you are looking at the very early results how does the customer base compare, contrast, overlap with your existing customer base? And how does that inform you of the opportunity in sports betting versus potentially interactive gaming?
Matt Maddox:
Craig, you want to take that?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Great question. So, obviously we're a casino brand. We're a very strong casino brand. So we think there's a lot of opportunity for us in high casino. On the customer acquisition side, the brand provides a distinct competitive advantage. I think that's true for some of our peers as well, but that's particularly true for us given the national recognition and premium nature of our brand. So we think that's an acquisition advantage. On the sports side, we've obviously operated our own sports book for many, many years. We understand trading, we understand what excites the customer and where the market is. And we are working with the team and the BetBull team that understands that as well as we do. So, in terms of database overlap, I mean, that's not going to be enough to scale any digital sports betting business. To be honest, you have to understand what the customer wants. You have to build a product to it, and you have to scale into that. And that's what we're in the early stages of doing in New Jersey.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. And maybe for a follow-up just on Las Vegas. Can you give any color on what you're seeing or really more what you're anticipating in terms of international demand and/or group meeting convention demand recovering?
Marilyn Spiegel:
So, this is Marilyn. The international demand that we're seeing is for the casino side is limited to people who are already here in the United States. And so we have been pleased with the baccarat business that we've seen. And we have them returning frequently to us. These may be folks from Southern California or someplace domestically. In terms of – you said convention business international, there is none.
Stephen Grambling:
No. I guess the question was what percentage of the mix was convention and was international as we think about that effectively at zero now, and you're already seeing a pretty healthy recovery in betting and really revenue and EBITDA. I'm trying to think about layering that back on at some point, and whether you can retain what you have currently?
Marilyn Spiegel:
I do think we can retain what we have. I mean, the convention business traditionally was about 30%. And so between casino and leisure and transient, they've all kind of equal out. But clearly our casino customers and our higher end casino customers are coming frequently. They are betting more, they have more sessions.
Craig Billings:
And Stephen, I would just add. Our group bookings for the back half of 2021, looks pretty consistent with what you would expect for the back half of any given non-COVID year and we obviously have a lot of capacity in the hotel. You can see that in our occupancy. So we believe we can maintain the momentum that we have. And then when you layer group and convention back on, on top of an OpEx base that is lower than it has historically been, it's a pretty good recipe for operating leverage.
Matt Maddox:
And one of the things that we've done is, we will finish this year our own PCR COVID testing lab. And we've partnered with a really strong group out of New York on top of a hospital here. It's under construction now. It's not a lot of money. It's a couple of million dollars, but we will be able to facilitate thousands and thousands and thousands of saliva-based tests that can be distributed throughout the property and turned around within five to six hours PCR. We're not talking antibody or antigen test here. With sensitivity rates and the 98% specificity rates over 99%. So the gold standard in terms of testing and what I've been talking to our elected leaders about is, this could be one of our opportunities as we get through this to get entertainment going again, to get conventions going again, that we'll be able to test thousands of people in a very short period of time so that they can be together. We will be creating safe zones throughout our property. Not for the whole property, but any place like a theater or in a convention where we want to get more people together than 50 or 250. So that's underway. The team is being built. It'll be finished this year. And the best thing would be if we never have to use it, but I'm not sitting around hoping that that will be a good strategy. We're going to be ready and we'll be the first ones, really probably the first ones in the U.S. to do something like that. And a lot of people are paying attention to it. And I think it's going to be a good blueprint to help get Las Vegas back.
Stephen Grambling:
That’s helpful. Thanks. Best of luck.
Craig Billings:
All right. Thank you everybody for joining the call today. We'll talk to you next time.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Matt Maddox; and Marilyn Spiegel in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan; Linda Chen; Ciaran Carruthers; Frederic Luvisutto; and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt.
Matthew Maddox:
Thanks, Craig, and thank you, everybody, for joining today. As we look back at what has occurred in 2020, we made a decision back in March that we were going to invest in our brands and our culture. When we closed our facilities in March in Las Vegas and in Boston and also the borders were restricted in Macau, we decided to pay all 30,000 team members their full wages and benefits through the closure, through the end of May. Because we know that over the long term, our brand and our culture are what is going to lead us out of this and will continue to allow us to lead in this industry. One thing that we did during the closure is we developed a comprehensive health and safety guidelines that, in fact, I believe, became the gold standard in the hospitality industry. Of course, everyone now has the electrostatic spray and UV technology and all the sanitization efforts same as us, thermal cameras as you walk in to take temperatures. But one of the things that I'm particularly proud of is our testing capability. Not only did we test all of our employees before they started, but we developed an algorithm where we surveil our staff and we test randomly 500 to 600 people every couple of weeks, and we have 10 contact tracers in-house. To put that in perspective, we performed 16,750 tests, and 98% have come back negative. The roughly 300 that were positive of our staff, our contact tracers contacted them immediately and through an extensive interview process, 99% of those 300 people were exposed outside of Wynn. Each week, I sit with and talk to the head of Global Health Security and Pandemic Research and her team from Georgetown University, going through our protocols and everything that we're doing. And just last week, talking about these numbers, her response was, "Wynn is probably the safest place outside of home that your employees and your customers go during the day." That's part of our brand. That's who we are, and that's what we're going to go live up to. When we began preparing to reopen on June 4 in Las Vegas, we knew that our brand and our culture were imperative, but so is our cash. And all along, I've been very clear that we were going to be staffing to demand when we opened. We made some tough decisions, rightsizing our expense structure since we've opened. And in the month of June, 26 days at Las Vegas, on a normalized basis, we made roughly $9 million in EBITDA. Our focus here is that we continue to keep our brand and keep our culture intact, but also keep our cash. We are going to continue to focus on breaking even or making money. We did notice in Las Vegas, there was some pent-up demand, in particular from California as we opened in June. We were receiving roughly 4,000 reservations a day that would be spread over the upcoming 2 weeks. And then as the virus began to spike in our key drive end markets in California and in Arizona, we saw a downtick in reservations, roughly 25% here at Wynn after the 4th of July. And we staffed appropriately. We're managing our business every day based on that reduced demand. And sitting here 30-odd days into the third quarter, our EBITDA is roughly $5 million. So it's impossible to predict whether Wynn Las Vegas during these times of restriction and closure will be making $5 million a month or $10 million a month. It's really out of our hands outside of the expenses, and we're focused on that every day and what's going on in our key drive end markets. We're experiencing mid-50% occupancy on the weekends and in the 30s during the week. And the visibility is quite murky because it really is short-term bookings from our drive-in markets. Moving on to Encore Boston Harbor in Massachusetts. Clearly, we were not open in the second quarter. We opened that property in mid-July, on July 12 actually. And Encore Boston Harbor is experiencing what many regional casinos are experiencing around the country. Slot volumes are actually quite good. They're in fact up over last year on significantly reduced units. Table volumes are off and probably disproportionately in Massachusetts relative to some other jurisdictions because of the very tight restrictions that are in place. As an example, craps and roulette are still not open. We're working closely with the MGC to show how we can do that in a very safe way. And the number of physicians are limited on the table side. So I do think there is more demand than supply for table games in our local markets there, and it's really just limited by our current restrictions. In Macau, the second quarter was similar to the first quarter. And what is good about Macau is the direction of travel feels like progress. So I'm sure as all of you on this call that are watching notice that every 2 weeks, there's a slight reduction in the restrictions, traveler restrictions going to Macau, whether it was eliminating the quarantine between the Guangdong province and Macau, and then allowing for nontourist visas to be issued beginning this month and continued talk among various people about when tourist visas, the individual visa scheme, for the travel bubble of the Guangdong province and Macau will begin. While we do not have any dates on when that will start, we are confident that, that is going to be happening in 2020. And each week, there seems to be a new, small incremental step forward. And once that travel bubble begins to open and tourist visas are being issued, Macau will be back in business. So before I hand it back over to Craig to give more color on the quarter, I just want to stress that we are going to be focused on leading in our industry, maintaining our brand, maintaining our culture and maintaining our cash. So there will be winners and losers that come out of this. And when this is over, and we come out, we want to make sure that we have the capital available to grow, and we have the culture in place to take care of our people and our customers. With that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to Craig for additional thoughts.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt. I want to remind everyone that the results presented in our earnings release reflect the closure of Wynn Las Vegas through June 3 and the closure of Encore Boston Harbor for the entire quarter. As Matt noted, subsequent to reopening in Las Vegas, we generated approximately $9 million of normalized EBITDA from a business that is heavily weighted to weakened occupancy. In the casino, slot business has been resilient with handle per operating day in the second quarter up 2% year-over-year, while table drop per operating day was down 31% year-over-year, primarily due to lower baccarat volumes. In light of current forecasted business trends and the absence of a number of key visitor segments, the team at Wynn Las Vegas has made adjustments to our business subsequent to reopening, including to staffing. As a result, our daily OpEx levels, excluding gaming taxes in Las Vegas, have declined 40% from Q4 2019 to approximately $1.8 million per day in July. We are focused on cash generation in Las Vegas. And as Matt noted, we expect to be breakeven to slightly EBITDA positive over the next few months, a substantial improvement over the daily cash burn rate we experienced during the closure. In Boston, we reopened in early July with a number of safety-related operating restrictions in place. Our reopening plan there was focused on opening only those amenities that support the casino, including the closure of the hotel on most weekdays. Overall, we've seen encouraging trends in the casino, particularly in slots with handle per operating day up approximately 7% versus Q4 2019. Similar to Las Vegas, we made a number of operating and staffing adjustments, resulting in a reduction of daily OpEx, excluding gaming taxes from Q4 2019 of approximately 33% to $830,000 per day post reopening in July. In Macau, business volumes remained subdued throughout the quarter due to ongoing travel restrictions in place in the region. While we await the return of visitation to the market, we have made certain OpEx adjustments with a focus on nonlabor fixed costs. As a result, we anticipate that we will break even at approximately 40% of Q4 2019 gaming volumes. Until that point, we anticipate a gradually improving daily EBITDA burn of $1.5 million to $2 million per day. As of last Friday, July 31, our global cash and liquidity position was over $3.8 billion, providing us with significant runway to weather the pandemic. In Macau, we had approximately $2.5 billion of available liquidity as of July 31. And in the U.S., we had total available liquidity of $1.3 billion as of July 31, with a substantially lower domestic daily cash burn subsequent to the reopening of our U.S.-based properties. Our CapEx in the quarter was $52 million. As noted last quarter, the vast majority of our CapEx plans remain on hold, and we are only proceeding with our highest priority projects. Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone that in the first quarter of 2020, we accrued $75.7 million of OpEx associated with our prior commitment to pay our domestic team members full wages and benefits from April 1 through May 15, and thus, this amount was not included in OpEx in the second quarter of 2020. Additionally, corporate expense in the quarter benefited from a $27.7 million net gain in relation to a derivative litigation settlement that the company received after the close of the quarter. With that, we will now turn the call over to Q&A.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions]. Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Craig, you just mentioned in your remarks that you've kind of taken about 500 basis points out of the requirement for breakeven in Macau investments, but the 40% of 4Q GGR that would be required. Matt, relative to your comments earlier with the every 2 week somewhat of a loosening of policies, if that trend were to continue and we were looking at kind of a little bit more free and easy travel coming out of Guangdong, is there the potential that we could see that 40% level at any point this year or presumably in the fourth quarter, even if just for a month or two?
Matthew Maddox:
That's what we discuss internally and how we think about 2020 is that in the fourth quarter, we're hopeful to be at that level.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay. Great. And then, Craig, just in terms of the point of clarification on the OpEx for Macau, you said that the current run rate at current revenue levels is a $1.5 million to $2 million per day burn rate. Is that correct?
Craig Billings:
Yes. $2 million would be in a zero revenue environment, and $1.5 million would be in a modest revenue environment. We -- it's a very fluid situation based on all the visa points that have been discussed ad nauseam, but that's how we think about it at this moment in time.
Operator:
And our next question comes from David Katz from Jefferies.
David Katz:
With respect to the Las Vegas side, and Matt, your commentary around Macau suggests we are where we are as it improves. But with respect to Las Vegas and the recovery there, what strategies have you thought about in terms of generating demand or changing the mix of demand at those properties in the near term as the world evolves?
Matthew Maddox:
So it's certainly a very different business model. We're effectively a super regional casino right now. So without the convention base, without the nightclub crowd, without the large shows, we've become super regional. So we're really focused on promos, on offers, we have partnerships with JetSuiteX. We're doing lots of things to try to get people to come here more often basically from California and Arizona, so frequency and worth to spend more. So the market is very promotional right now, obviously. And we're focused on our database and driving more casino revenue. Non-gaming revenue is down for us by 2/3. And that was 2/3 of our business. So we're doing everything we can to get heads in beds in the hotel and really focused on how we can get more of our drive-in market here on a more frequent basis.
David Katz:
Understood. And if I can follow that up with respect to getting groups to come and, obviously, there are restrictions that are evolving and hard to know. But when your team talk to group planners or meeting planners about what kinds of changes you may need to make, what have you planned or done so far to prepare for the fact that there'll be some new normal, at least to start out for groups to come in?
Matthew Maddox:
Yes, sure. I think that no one can predict the future right now. So groups are all holding off until kind of late spring '21 into the back half of next year to decide what's going to happen and what they need. One thing that we're doing, which I think is probably different than most of our peers, is I'm spending a lot of time on point-of-care testing. There's a couple of really exciting technologies that are moving forward. And we are in line if those get their EUA, Emergency Use Authorization, under the FDA, because I believe if we can have on-site point-of-care testing that provides pooling, meaning we -- it looks like you can do 10 people at a time with a 5-minute turnaround that, that changes the game for groups. So maybe you're not waiting until the mid-next year, if you can actually have point-of-care testing to show that everyone walking into this space is COVID-free. I think that, that could accelerate, I don't know, how much by months, our ramp-up of some of the smaller groups. That stuff has not been approved yet, but -- those point-of-care tests are not approved yet by the FDA, but they're moving fast. And the cost, especially with pooling are coming down significantly. So I think my belief is that's sort of the bridge that we need to get to in a place that requires a lot of people to be together before we're into the vaccine. Because I think as everyone knows, by the time that's approved and rolled out and implemented, those things are complicated and take a lot of time. So those are the types of things we're talking to our groups about in addition to all the social distancing measures and everything that we do to provide a really safe experience. And so the conversations are ongoing, but to say that we knew when groups could start coming back is, I think, it's too early.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff from JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
I'd like to play a theoretical theme to ask a good question to kind of get a sense of maybe how important Hong Kong, and travel through Hong Kong maybe is important to Macau market. If the IDS is fully restored, and there are no issues there but for whatever reason, Hong Kong is shut to Macau, what percentage of the Macau market comes back from a GGR perspective, maybe taking into account ways that take [Technical Difficulty].
Matthew Maddox:
Yes, sure. I'm going to let Ian take that one.
Ian Coughlan:
So visitation from Hong Kong, Joe, is between 17% and 18%, if you look at last year. And from a GGR perspective, it probably represents 9% or 10% of last year's GGR. We actually think locally, with the closure of Hong Kong, for PRC travelers once the Guangdong bubble fully opens with tourist visas into Macau, we will get the benefit of Hong Kong being closed to mainland Chinese customers. So Hong Kong is a good market for us, but we really believe the power comes from Guangdong. 21 of the 47 IVS cities are in Guangdong. So once that opens up, we believe that, that will lift our business significantly.
Joseph Greff:
Great. And then, Craig, back to Las Vegas. You said with some of the staffing changes you made more recently, July daily OpEx per day was $1.8 million. Is that a run rate after the staffing changes or is that sort of an average with not the full amount of a monthly staffing labor OpEx differential in there?
Craig Billings:
It's the former, Joe. It is the latest state of play based on what we have in place right now.
Operator:
And our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
So just sticking on Las Vegas. And you kind of touched upon this before, Matt, in terms of how you're trying to drive visitations to the property, spend [indiscernible], how you're yield managing the property. And I know it's tough now because you don't really have the benefit of all the levers you'd have in a normal environment as occupancy is what it is, that sort of thing. But just wondering how you're thinking about kind of maintaining price integrity and so forth. And then also, if you could just help us understand the percentage of room nights in terms of convention and groups versus in terms of 2019, if you could just unveil where you were there?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. So you're right about pricing power, Felicia, it's very complicated. In fact, every day at 11:45, we have a yielding meeting, looking at all the trends every day because the market is so short term and the ability to move price is quite tough. So customers are choosing on price. We're attempting to yield going into weekends when there's a lot of last-minute booking coming in, in particular for 1-day stays on Saturdays. And so those are really the opportunities. Midweek, very, very tough. It's a -- if you go online, you can see where the market is pricing. And so it's really -- the customers are choosing midweek and on the weekends as we're attempting to yield as best we can. Marilyn, you want to talk a little bit about the convention mix and 2019 and what it means for us now?
Marilyn Spiegel:
Well, for now, clearly, there's not much left on the books for 2020. And there are small groups that we're trying to refill. We have the advantage of having, one, a great facility and; two, very long-term relationships with our convention sales folks. So we've been very successful in rebooking them. You'll see that the second half of '21 is going to be very strong, '22, '23. So people are coming and they're seeing that. The first quarter of '21 is a lot about what's going on with CES and how are the other groups going to be falling out. But we see that by about April, there's some firmness in the market. Clearly, 2000, every year ahead of this, first quarter and second quarter are the best quarters. And so we missed that this year, and it's too early to tell for the rest of 2020 if there's any business. And in 2021, the first quarter is a question mark because it's going to -- an addition comes, but we do see firmness by the time April shows up all the way through the rest of the year.
Felicia Hendrix:
And then just normally...
Matthew Maddox:
This was around 1/3, convention.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Correct.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Okay. And then just, Ian, as my follow-up, just hypothetically, the IVS gets reinstated tomorrow. What do you think the lag period is in terms of when you would start to see that traffic being able to come to Macau?
Ian Coughlan:
So we're hoping there's going to be a clamor for visas and that some of the visa offices will get jammed up, but we imagine it will clear over a couple of weeks. And we'll start to see meaningful traffic within 2 weeks.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Just wanted to follow up on some of the comments on Las Vegas. Matt, your comment on the super regional kind of comparison is a little interesting. And we get a lot of questions on the idea around sort of Vegas' run rate margins. I think we all know that the regional markets are performing quite well. Just kind of curious on your thoughts on -- now that you've lowered the operating expense run rate a little bit, you're undoubtedly learning a ton on the fly about what you can do and how customers move and operate in the buildings. Is there any component of what's going on right now? Do you think you can extrapolate into kind of the future of what Las Vegas's margin structure might look like? I appreciate it's wildly early and theoretical, but just your thought process there?
Matthew Maddox:
Yes, sure. And when I said super regional, what I meant by that was our customers are coming from drive-in markets. But our revenue, as you know, our revenues are not like a regional market revenue. When 2/3 of our business is nongaming, and that's down by 60-plus percent. So even though we're getting -- gaming spend is okay, you can't cut your way to better margins without absolutely destroying your brand and culture and company. You can't do it in our market, and we're not going to. So while we -- our expenses are down almost 40%, we're focused on EBITDA and not on margin because we want to make sure we're making cash, we're preserving our cash flow and we're preserving who we are for the long term.
Shaun Kelley:
Got it. That's helpful. And then just maybe a sort of similar idea around Boston, right? I mean this property was in a ramp-up phase, so really hard to get our arms around. But as we think about other regional markets, we have seen numbers that have really been shockingly good as it relates to the broader margin profile there. Just any sense of where $830,000 per day gets you to? Or where does that property kind of pencil out as you get to kind of targeting potential around EBITDA breakeven or positive there? Is that possible on these types of OpEx numbers or do you need more volume?
Matthew Maddox:
Yes, sure. That's possible. And I'll let Craig take that and then Brian provide some color on our customers there.
Craig Billings:
Sure. Yes, you're right, Shaun. If you look back to Q4 '19, we had about $1.3 million in OpEx. Today, it's about $830,000. If you think about what's happening in the business, we mentioned that slot handle was up pretty significantly versus Q4. Table drop is down about 30%, but we're down about 50% in terms of positions. So we can obviously breakeven in this environment with the OpEx reductions that we've done. And as that table volume comes back, we anticipate that not only will we generate pretty meaningful EBITDA. Some of those expenses will come back. But a good chunk of what we've done is more permanent in nature, and we're not going to open any amenity unless it's accretive.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. That's helpful.
Craig Billings:
Brian, do you have anything you would add to that?
Brian Gullbrants:
No. Well said.
Operator:
And our next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Can you just update us on your latest views on operating a casino in Japan?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. So I think as most of you that have been following us, our efforts in Japan over the last decade have been more monitoring as opposed to being really active. We have been monitoring that situation for years and years and years. And back in March, we decided that until there's more clarity on what the business is going to look like, what the world is going to look like and what the regulations really are over there, they were pretty much ceasing our efforts. We did that about 4 months ago. It doesn't mean that we're not interested in the market. It just means that right now, it's not a focus for our company.
Thomas Allen:
That's helpful, Matt. And then just in terms of the U.S., I think that there's a view that with COVID hitting state budgets, you may see some progress to more legalization, potentially in New York, potentially in Georgia. Any interest in expanding in markets like that?
Matthew Maddox:
I think that each one would have to be able to support what we do. We would -- there are -- clearly, I think the Atlanta market or the New York market, under the right regulatory environment, under the right tax rate, under the right surrounding community agreements is something that we would take a look at. But without seeing what would be required, I can't say that any of those would be attractive for us right now.
Craig Billings:
With that, we'll take our last question.
Operator:
And that comes from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs.
Stephen Grambling:
On Macau, how would you characterize the financial health and relevance of the junkets and driving a recovery and how should investors be thinking about any additional credit in VIP direct for ramping up other marketing to attract customers once restrictions begin to lift?
Matthew Maddox:
Yes, sure. A fun topic we talk about quite a bit internally. Ian, why don't you take that one?
Ian Coughlan:
I missed the first part of the question, the line broke.
Matthew Maddox:
Junket health.
Ian Coughlan:
Junket health. Well, we've got a handful of the largest junket operators at Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace. So they've kept their teams together. They're, like, ourselves, they're waiting with bated breath for the resuming of tourist visas. And from the outside, they look well capitalized, and we deal with the bigger operators. So we believe that their business will build aligned with our business.
Stephen Grambling:
And just on the second part, I mean, do you -- should we generally be assuming that there is some form of promotional support, either VIP direct or in terms of credit being extended or ramping other marketing from your -- just anticipating across the broader group as restrictions lift?
Ian Coughlan:
The general sentiment locally among the operators is we're not going to cut each other's throats. Everybody's going to be reasonable about marketing expenses. And we're hoping for lots of activity once the tourist visas come back and I don't believe that we'll see a huge increase in marketing expenses.
Matthew Maddox:
All right. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We look forward to talking to you next quarter. Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Operator:
And thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may go ahead and disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. All participants are in listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. And good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today in are Matt Maddox in Las Vegas and on the phone line Marilyn Spiegel, Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities Laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig, and hello everyone, I hope that you are all safe and healthy like we're working from home right now. Instead of just jumping right into our first quarter results, what I'd like to do is spend some time talking about how we've handled this pandemic and the way that we've been thinking about it. So, well before we close our facilities in North America because of our Macau experience, I reached out to one of the leading experts really in the world in terms of pandemic research and global health security. It's the director of global health security from Georgetown University and engaged that team months ago. And spent daily conversations with that team trying to understand the situation and what was going on and how best we could protect our customers and our employees and provide information to our medical communities and to our state and local government. We actually, because of that led the industry both in Massachusetts and in Nevada, in closing our casinos, we suggested to the Massachusetts Gaming Commission in mid-March that it was time for us to close based on the data and based on the science and the potential community spread that we were seeing. And we actually closed our resorts in Las Vegas in advance of the state declaration to close and we were the first that led that. And we did it because at that time it was the right thing to do. And we knew that we needed to be early to make that move. We also knew during that time they asking our 30,000 employees, team members, 15,000 of them in North America, and 15,000 in Macau that a pandemic is upon us that we're closing our resorts. We felt that we should invest in our culture right now, because it's taken years and years and years to build the best team and the industry. And so we chose and I chose to pay all of our people, since we've closed to the end of May. We are one of the outliers in our industry or in hospitality in general that have done that. But I believe that investing in culture right now and making sure that your team members feel safe during these times is a corporate responsibility. And I also believe it's a great investment. I'm not sure how long this will last. And I'm not sure how much longer we can continue this practice. It's currently in May 31st. But what I know is when we do reopen and whatever state that is in Las Vegas, and in Massachusetts, that I want our team members to have smiles on their faces. It'll be underneath the mask, but it'll still radiate through, because we're in the business of making people happy. And only if our customers -- and our customers will only be happy, if our employees felt like they were part of the family. So that's been my focus is to really make sure that we're doing this as a family and to think about the future, because you can quickly disrupt a culture that takes years and years to build. It also allowed us I think to act quite fast in the way that we're thinking about a reopening because of the resources we had. As an example, I believe we were one of the first companies in the nation, not just in our industry within the nation to produce a detailed reopening plan. We published it for the world to see on April 19th. It's a 23 page plan that goes department-by-department, area-by-area, space-by-space, in terms of how we're going to keep our employees safe and our customers safe. It's actually become known as the Wynn plan and I've had sports teams call and walk through it, airlines call and walk through it, retail, large landlords call and walk through it, developers, dozens of CEOs to look at the Wynn plan and to think about it, apply it to their own business. And we did that, because we want to help lead the conversation to a reopening of our economy, but in a phased approach and in a safe approach, and focused on the data. We've been working with our experts and state and local officials on benchmarks to track that should be public and transparent. We've crafted with our medical community here in Nevada, benchmarks based on disease growth, which is a case growth coupled with hospitalizations and deaths. And the disease growth needs to be at a certain level before you consider reopening. We have set benchmarks for ICU capacity with our medical community, as well as ventilator capacity that you need the ability to achieve a two times surge and COVID patients in your ICU without needing crisis care to begin a phased approach to opening, as well as test positivity rate, which really measures the amount of tests that are being conducted in an area. Those benchmarks have been widely distributed, they're going to be quite public. And it's really a great way that our medical community is looking at this to think about phase openings of the economy. In Nevada, our governor has launched the concept of the phased opening. The phase one should begin in the next week or so, sometime around mid-May. And then based on the benchmarks and the data, I believe we will continue to see in phase two openings of additional businesses and potentially opening of our business in late May. But again, that is assuming that we stay in line with the benchmarks and that the environment is safe for customers and for all of our employees. In Massachusetts, they have formed a task force at the state level, and I want to commend both Governor Sisolak and Governor Baker for early fast action and for their tireless work on this effort. Massachusetts has also, I believe, will be coming out with a phased approach to opening they have clearly had a much more difficult time than Nevada has given the high amount of cases and deaths there, but their medical community has handled it really as good as has been handled around the globe and should be commended. On the testing front, we think a lot about this. And in fact, we in Las Vegas have signed a partnership with the University Medical Center, the Research Hospital in Las Vegas, whereby any of our employees can get tested for COVID-19. In fact, we have on-site testing tomorrow set up in an 85,000 square foot ballroom, with 25 nurses from UMC, all appropriately spaced out. And we believe that we'll have over the next couple of days, thousands of employees that will have been tested. These are the types of things that we're doing now in early into the eventual lead up to opening our properties. In Macau, we've been -- we remained open in Macau after the closure in the first two weeks of February. However, as all of you on this phone know the Macau volumes have really not been there because there's a 14 day quarantine of going in and out of Macau from Hong Kong or Mainland China. One of the some encouraging things that we have seen in Macau is first there hasn't been a new COVID case in Macau in weeks. Second in Mainland China and Macau and Hong Kong teachers and students are back-to-school as of last week. There's continued to be progress in the Macau government has publically talked about it. In the health check system, which in China, as I'm sure a lot of you are aware on your mobile phone, you have a red, yellow or green system that gives access to various areas. And Macau has been working very closely with lockdown to make sure that those health checks are in line. All of those seem to be in our progress. So we would anticipate that as everyone else is that progress will continue in terms of reopening the borders in a cautious way, resuming tourism in a cautious way. And the amount of progress that's been made over there has been extraordinary. Just looking at the results, high level, before our closure in Las Vegas, RevPAR was up 8%. In Massachusetts, we were on our way to record EBITDA and Wynn per unit per day before closure was up on the swap floor about 13%. In Macau, as we laid out for all of you on the first quarter call, during the closure, we were roughly between $2.2 million and $2.6 million a day of burned. And what we saw from February 20th to roughly March 20th after we reopened was a gradual increase in gaming volumes and particularly led by VIP in premium segment to the point where our burn way in a matter of three weeks, from $2.5 million a day to $800,000 a day. And we were back to roughly 25% of our volumes in the fourth quarter. So we're continuing to be optimistic about what's going to happen in Macau as the cautious reopening of the border continues. We're focused on our three pillars that we talked about on these calls, which in Macau, and in North America. In Macau, in particular is investing in our people, which we're doing, investing in our communities, which includes the greater Bay Area, and really helping to position when to be beneficial in the greater Bay Area and working on investments throughout the region and investing in our assets. So during these times, we have continued extensive design development work, design work on our Crystal Pavilion project in Macau and we remain very excited about it. So that's really where we are right now. I believe we're going to continue to lead in our industry in Las Vegas and in Massachusetts. We're working very carefully and closely on a daily basis with state and local officials and the gaming regulatory bodies. And I believe that the data will be transparent as to opening dates based on benchmarks. And we'll be ready to begin in the new normal atmosphere. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Craig to talk about some of our financial results.
Craig Billings :
Thank you, Matt. This quarter, I'll focus my remarks on the company's current liquidity position and our expected cash burn rate. At the onset of the outbreak of virus in both Asia and the U.S., we took immediate and decisive action to bolster our global liquidity position, maximize our financial flexibility and preserve cash. On April 30, our global cash and liquidity position was nearly $3.4 billion, providing the company with significant runway to weather the impact of the pandemic on our business. In Macau, where we drew down our revolving credit facility in February, we had approximately $1.8 billion of available liquidity as of April 30th. And in the U.S., we had total available liquidity of approximately $1.6 billion at the end of April. Our already strong domestic liquidity position was recently bolstered by the issuance of $600 million of unsecured notes in April. In fact, the transaction was upsized from $350 million it was approximately 8 times oversubscribed. We were pleased to be the first company in our industry to issue unsecured notes since the onset of the pandemic, once again highlighting the strength of our brands and our business. We also obtained a covenant waiver for our U.S. credit facility for further increasing our financial flexibility. We are well positioned to bridge the current period of uncertainty and to thrive operationally and strategically during the recovery period. Turning to our cash burn rate. Upon the closure of casino operations in Macau in February, as Matt just alluded to, we announced an expected daily OpEx burn rate in Macau of $2.5 million. As he also mentioned upon reopening in late February our normalized EBITDA burn rate improved to approximately $800,000 per day in March. And with the subsequent implementation of additional public health measures, quarantines and border closures this rate in April was approximately $2 million per day reflected with limited business volumes. Until the reimplementation of visa schemes, and for reopening of transit to Hong Kong we expected daily burn rate in the $2 million to $2.5 million range in Macau, excluding interest and CapEx. In the U.S., we have currently committed to pay all our team members their wages and benefits. Under this approach our daily OpEx burn rate in the U.S. is approximately $3.6 million inclusive of corporate expense. Globally, cash interest expense and our scaled down CapEx program combined are approximately $1.7 million per day. And thus our current global worst case all in daily cash burn rate is approximately $7.8 million per day, meaning we have sufficient liquidity runway in a worst case, no revenue full pay environment until at least the third quarter of 2021. But we will of course continue to actively assess our cash OpEx usage and liquidity position as the situation evolves. And will make adjustments as required based on the facts on the ground, including like the reopening date. On the CapEx front, we have postponed the Wynn Las Vegas room remodel, which was slated to begin in June, conserving approximately $170 million of cash and liquidity. We're fortunate to have the highest quality room product in Las Vegas and we plan to revisit the project again as we plan for 2020. We will also be very judicious with our global normal course maintenance capital spending over the coming quarters, only proceeding with our highest priority projects. Our pre-construction planning work on the Crystal Pavilion at Wynn Palace continues with our in house development team, as Matt mentioned. And in order to further solidify the company's financial position, our Board along with senior management have decided to temporarily suspend the company's quarterly dividends, preserving over $100 million of liquidity per quarter. We look forward to resuming the dividend when business conditions permit. Lastly, I'll quickly note that our reported EBITDA for our U.S. properties in the first quarter was negatively impacted by $75.7 million accrual associated with our commitment to pay our domestic team members full wages and benefits after quarter end, from April 1st through May 15th. $56.4 million of this accrual was for Wynn Las Vegas, and $19.3 million was for Boston. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is now open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, Matt and Craig. Thanks for the comments. For Matt, maybe you could talk a little bit about, obviously we have some time now in Macau until some of those quarantine and restrictions I guess these restrictions will leave a little bit. Was it frustrating [ph] out a little bit the summer months, as you envision the ramp is it's across the segments?
Matt Maddox:
So, just based on our limited experience, between February 20th and March 20th, we definitely saw the VIP and premium segments come back faster. There's clearly pent-up demand for activity. If you look at what's going on in Beijing and Shanghai the go back to work and resume production campaign that has been launched. There's a lot of activity. So I do believe that there will be demand for Macau without a doubt. I am also very happy that we're in the business of the premium and high-end which requires less people and more revenue. So, we're not looking for 100,000 people a day to be going through our properties, that's never been our business. We've always been focused on the premium end and I believe that that will definitely be the segment that comes back first is the cap.
Craig Billings:
And Carlo, I would just add to that, as Matt mentioned, when we reopened in February and into March, we got back to 25% to 30% of our Q4 '19 gaming volumes. That really reduced the cash burn rate and frankly, wasn't far off from the 45% or so of Q4, 2019 GGR volumes that we need to hit EBITDA break even. So you'll have your own view of Macau wide GGR mix share, et cetera. But whether it's VIP or premium less mass lead, we feel like the snapback will be pretty quick. And that will obviously help our cash flow position there.
Carlo Santarelli:
And Craig about 45%, that's breakeven, I'm assuming you're assuming that's the same split as generated in the quarter two that you mentioned.
Craig Billings:
Yes.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. And then if I could just want follow up for either of you. How much do you guys think about the present spoil last of the 5 to 10 year view that Beijing, Macau will take as it pertains to concession renewal process and the importance of the capital spend clearly guys have the Crystal Pavilion and whatnot. But in terms of that renewal process how much do you take that 5 to 10 year plan will factor into the thinking around the concessionaires?
Matt Maddox:
So Carlos, it is Matt. Again, we believe in what's happening in the greater Bay Area in Macau and China. We are focused on doing the best we can to be a part of it, and to invest in our people, our communities and our assets. So we put that plan together at the beginning of this year. It's still our plan. We're focused on it. We think it makes a lot of sense for the community for our people and for our shareholders. So, that's really where we are and that's we have not deviated from that plan.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thank you very much guys.
Operator:
Next question is from Joe Greff with JP Morgan. Your line is now open.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everyone. Matt, thank you for your prepared comments and thoughts. First question relates to Macau. Obviously, you saw relative strength in the VIP and Premium segments in that period in February and March. Can you talk about the status of your top junkets or the top junkets in Macau? What kind of financial position are they in? How mindful do we all have to be of this as a consideration to assess the VIP segment recovery? Would you be willing and/or are you anticipating lending more to junkets and directly to VIP players?
Matt Maddox:
So Joe, we're obviously in very close contact with the large junkets there. I think everyone's trying to understand what liquidity will look like. We don't have any answers right now on how much we'll be loading to our junkets. But it does seem like the larger junket operators are still okay on the liquidity side And everybody's just waiting to see what's going to happen. Ian , do you have any thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
Yeah. Anecdotally locally, the junkets are just like the rest of us. They're waiting for the borders to ease and to get back into business. They've like the rest of us have kept their teams together in anticipation of business sticking up. And we can see the pent up demand. I think the May holiday has given people a lot of encouragement. And something we talked about locally is the Macau advantage. We have proximity to China, we've got proximity to Guangdong. And the biggest wealthiest province in China 114 million people of the 49 IVS cities in China, 21 of them are in Guangdong. It looks like our borders will be opening up over the next couple of months. And I think everybody's anticipating us building business very nicely. There is pent up demand in China. What we've seen over the May holiday is a lot of resort and luxury driven travel, a lot of family driven travel, which is very good for both sides. And we thought [indiscernible] resort, just a stone's throw from Macau absolutely packed over the main holiday. There are people that want to come and once the borders ease, we will have players and we have customers back and the junket are in the same position as us.
Matt Maddox:
And Ian I think just to clarify. The May holiday traffic that we witness was in mainland China not it's not necessarily [indiscernible] which is right in Hinton Island had really strong volumes and as well as lots of resorts around so I think that's a great point. There's clear demand for the product that we offer.
Joe Greff:
Thank you and then switching over to Las Vega. Can you talk about your current thoughts on how you're opening? I'm presuming that's going to be one of the two assets on this trip. And when you think of what sort of percentage of revenue EBITDA breakeven thresholds you need there that would be helpful understanding how are you thinking that? That's all for me.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So, Joe, I'll start off with this. In Las Vegas, we're still working through what our opening plan is going to look like. We're working closely with the state officials and the gaming control board here. It's unclear if it'll just be one of the two assets. I'm currently given all of the occupancy limitations that we will have self-imposed. It could really likely be both of the assets open but just with occupancy restrictions. We do anticipate as we get closer to an opening weeks from now that there will be pent up demand in the leisure segment. We've seen that in a lot of surveys that have happened out there. And so we're working through that. I think each day people's mentality changes depending on where they live and what they're experiencing. And if you look at what's happening in Texas right now with the various food and beverage outlets. If you look at what's happening, on the beaches in Southern California. We're going to have a very safe environment, but we will have an environment that I think a lot of people will want to come participate in. Clearly we won't be opening large mass gathering places, nightclubs, or convention areas or shows. But we will be opening most of our restaurants and working with our retail partners to try to have an experience that will be safe and fun. So Marilyn, do you have anything you want to add to that?
Marilyn Spiegel:
No, I think that's really the essence of what we're going to do. I mean, we do see demand. And we see the leisure market coming back the drive in market for sure. The casino customers, the value-oriented ones. And some of our hosted customers can't wait to come through the door. But whenever we open, it's going to be an integrated resort experience that will rival any other hotel that is going to be opening up any other resorts that will open up.
Craig Billings:
And, Joe, the answer to your question on the -- it's Craig here. The answer to your question on occupancy. It really depends on how much of the campus we open as Matt alluded to, which we'll make that decision based on public health considerations in our view of demand over the course of 20 -- looking forward over the course of all of 2020. So depending upon what we opened we would expect to break even at the 50% to 60% occupancy level.
Joe Greff:
Thank you.
Operator:
Next question is from Felicia Hendricks from Barclays. Your line is now open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, thanks so much. Good to hear from you all. And thanks for all the detailed comments. Craig on liquidity, you've given us a decent amount of information. Just wondering if we could take it one step further. Just in the extreme case that you did need to access more liquidity. I'm just wondering if you could walk us through the incremental levers you have to pull both in Macau and on the U.S. side.
Craig Billings:
Sure. I think you saw its access to the market just last month. And so we think we have the ability to do that to the extent that we need to, but with $3.4 billion on the balance sheet and really being at peak burn now, I don't anticipate we'll need to do that. But I think the capital markets showed that they were more than happy to embrace us.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. So there's no limitation in any of your debt facilities?
Matt Maddox:
The competent in Macau is at the concessionaire level on a senior secured basis. So we would have access to the bond market at WML [ph]. And in the U.S. we actually got a covenant waiver, even though that's also secure covenant, we got a covenant waiver on our U.S. facility. So we have ample room to add liquidity to the extent we need it. Though again, I don't anticipate we will.
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes, great. Thank you. And then Craig you were also just mentioning CapEx, I was just wondering if you could get into a little bit more detail. Walk us through kind of how you're thinking about capital spending for this year and next year. And you did mention some of that relative to the Vegas. With things shut does that give you an opportunity to get a head start on or celebrate your room remodel plan?
Matt Maddox:
Hey, Felicia its Matt. So we went through our long list of capital projects in Massachusetts, Las Vegas, and in Macau. And we've effectively put all of the short term things on hold outside of something that's under construction now. For example, Delilah in Las Vegas that was halfway through construction, we're going to finish that. But the large projects, room remodels some of the other things that we were looking at, we have put on hold until we're cash flow positive. So, we're really focused on maintaining our liquidity right now.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
The next question is from Shaun Kelley, with Bank of America. Your line is now open.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Thank you. And just wanted to pass along my sentiments and thanks for also just keeping all of the employees on the payroll. I mean, you're one of the few operators across all of the companies that we cover that's doing that. And I think that needs to be said that it's a really big statement to your local communities. So I think that's a big deal. But Matt, just overall if you could comment just you've mentioned in your prepared remarks, you're talking to a number of CEOs and partners out there. I was curious specifically on if any of those conversations have moved into specifically airline partners as it relates to lift into Las Vegas because that's pretty important, particularly as you get into the higher price points and it's obviously going need to be something that works together with the broader industry out there. So just how are you thinking about that?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, that's a great question, Shaun. I've personally spoken to the airlines that have lots of lift capacity in particular into Las Vegas. And in the month of May and in June, there's a dramatic reduction in lift capacity as you can imagine. Some of the large airlines are starting to put their plans out, their standardization plans, which we've been encouraging them to be transparent and to start putting that out. I think that there's continued disagreement between the airlines and TSA on temperature checks, which is kind of a logistical problem. And so are they going to do them and if so, who's doing them? So there's some behind the scenes work that needs to happen. But the airlines are definitely focused on it and they're contracting the list now. But based on my conversations, it's been fairly short term because trying to predict what demand will be 60 or 90 days. It almost impossible given the speed of the information in the economy that we're all learning every day.
Shaun Kelley:
Thanks for that. Then maybe the other question along the same dynamic would just be, having been through one crisis not terribly long ago. The pricing strategy within Vegas and across the strip is also going to be an important variable here. And obviously you're positioned very much at the premium end, but you have to be impacted by what else is going on in the market. So how do you think -- how are you thinking about both the sort of the balance of new supply coming back along, relative to how you can kind of retain some great integrity and because you kind of have to have both those variables work for this to be successful reopening. So, just how are you thinking about managing it?
Matt Maddox:
Yeah, I think that on the supply side in the early days. I don't think not a lot is going to reopen in my opinion. I don't know how many resorts are going to reopen, but it's certainly not even close to the entire Las Vegas Strip. Clearly our base of group is non-existent in the first few months after we reopen. So we're really focused on casino and on leisure, and trying to capture a disproportionate amount of that market people coming to Las Vegas. No, I think it'll be a slow ramp because the group will not be there. But there's also not a lot of I don't think there'd be a lot of supply either. So our pricing power I believe will help dictate how full we want our properties to be.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank very much.
Operator:
Next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is now open.
Thomas Allen :
Okay. Good afternoon. So, Matt, you were at the White House last week meeting with the President. What you learn there in terms of one the government's expectation in terms of the pace of recovery? And two, any interesting comments from other corporate throughout demand to start coming back to Vegas? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
I think there's clearly a focus on a safe reopening of the economy. I think that the -- it's obvious what's happening with this rapidly decelerating curve with our economy that that has to be blunted as we blunted the growth of COVID-19. And so there was a real focus on how to do that. Testing is continuing to be a real point of focus. And on that I think that there's been tremendous progress in terms of testing and testing capacity. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tests likely will be performed over the next couple of weeks on a daily basis. In Las Vegas, like I said, we're going to have the ability and working with UMC. When we open it when any employee and any customer that wants to swab test, you can get it we have on site. We have three various antibody tests that are going through EUA approval right now and one that already has it that we're working on. That will also be available. So, I think that until it's commodity businesses themselves need to work with medical communities to make sure that those are available. And so we're definitely doing that. But there was a clear focus on how to reopen the economy and to start moving in that direction.
Thomas Allen:
Okay, and then just as my follow up question [indiscernible] when they reported two weeks ago talked about being more interested in M&A right now. Do you think there will be more industry consolidation and anything update for that? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
I'm not sure about that. I think during these times, there's usually transactions that are out there. And there could be some really interesting assets that could come up that I think everybody will be watching.
Thomas Allen:
Helpful.
Operator:
Our next question is from Harry Curtis with Instinet. Your line is now open.
Harry Curtis:
Hello, everyone. My first question relates to just the timing of opening in Macau. What do you think the authorities are waiting for, particularly given the opening in [indiscernible], and the fact that there haven't been any cases in of COVID in Macau for weeks?
Matt Maddox:
I'll start with this and then turn it over to Ian. So I think this situation has been handled really well in Macau. I think it's been almost 28 days without a case. There's been clarity, daily press conferences, lots of interaction. Operators are focused on it. Employees are being very compliant in terms of wearing masks and what they need to be doing and hand sanitization. And there seems to be a really deep collaboration and cooperation with Macau and in Guangdong in terms of these health checks to begin to move in a very reasonable and data driven way. So to me it seems like every two weeks there's progress. There's real progress in a way that is measurable and people can understand it. Ian what do you think?
Ian Coughlan:
This is Ian. The chief executive in his policy address said that when Macau and the region of Guangdong are stable, that they will look at the process of reopening the border restrictions. They've been very methodical about it. And when we faced our two levels of risk with the pandemic, they were extremely quick and decisive, which we appreciated. And now we really appreciate the fact that it's about safety first. They're phasing the lifting of restrictions. They've had a very progressive development over the last two weeks. The first stage was allowing teachers and students based in Zhuhai who live in Zhuhai and come over to Macau to attend school and teachers to work. And so they've gone through that process. That process involves introducing relative mass testing for the individuals and that was very successfully done. And we're now looking at Macau people that are working in Macau but actually living in Zhuhai. They're the next stage of the testing process. The merging and synchronizing of the two health codes for Guangdong and for Macau involves a lot of regional cooperation between government departments that their deepened dialogue about that the system is being set up and now they're trialing it. And they've already altered the Barger open and closure hours back to where they were previously. So there's a lot of things happening. One of the great outcomes of this is the dialogue between Guangdong and Macau, the government departmental level, this augurs really well for the future, when you look at Henshin Island and how that opens up to Macau and how we become a bigger parts of the Greater Bay Area. So we appreciate the sequencing, the measured approach and the safety first approach, but it's happening and it's imminent.
Harry Curtis:
Maybe as a follow up. Ian do you think that testing for customers wanting to either get a visa or by definition cross the border, do you think testing is going to be a prerequisite?
Matt Maddox:
There's no clarity on that right now Harry.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. All right. And you also mentioned Matt testing in Vegas. What about, are you testing your employees in in Macau as well?
Matt Maddox:
This was just the University Medical Center in Wynn Las Vegas reaching that agreement in Macau. Because, the government has done a very good job there. There are tests available for people that meet them. My understanding is that teachers are getting tested when they're going in. And so I think it's a little bit of a different situation there. What we noticed here in Las Vegas is there was testing capacity, but nobody prescribing tests because people weren't hitting their five or six symptoms. So we decided to cut through that and make a direct partnership with the Research Hospital so that our employees would have the ability to get tested.
Harry Curtis:
Thanks, everybody. Appreciate it.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks.
Operator:
Our next question is from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open.
Steven Grambling:
Thanks two questions. First, a follow up to Thomas's question on consolidation. What would make an asset more interesting or less interesting during these times or surface willing sellers. And then second, perhaps related in some ways, how is your thought process on the right capital structure specific to provide leverage levels and amount of liquidity involved if we think longer term given this experience. Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
So, from my perspective on the consolidation. Our expertise has been and I think always will be development and running the best asset. So we are not actively thinking about M&A right now. We're actively thinking about how do we have the industry leading assets in the markets where we operate and take market share as we open. And then how do we develop the way and that we have around those over the longer period of time? So that's really our strategic goal right now. Craig, do you want to take that follow up?
Craig Billings:
Sure. On the capital structure side, I would just reiterate liquidity, liquidity, liquidity, liquidity is king. We have always maintained a pretty healthy amount of liquidity. And I think that that has served as well in this process. I think it's a little too early to start talking about target leverage levels. We need to actually get back to generating cash flow first. But certainly maintenance and of liquidity was an is a really important part of capital structure in times like that.
Steven Grambling:
Great. Thanks so much.
Matt Maddox:
I guess we'll take our last question, operator.
Operator:
The final question is from David Katz from Jefferies. Your line is now open.
David Katz:
Hi everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Look, I think you've given an awful lot of detail and Matt you obviously put the company's resources behind doing a lot of research. What thoughts or concerns or views do you have about the prospect of opening up in kind of a choppy fashion or any kind of resurgence that could delay the ramp up? Not that you would predict it one way or the other, but perhaps provide contingencies beyond just the financial ones form?
Matt Maddox:
That's something that I think about and we think about every day, which is why we've continued to encourage phased openings and watch the data. So I think from a health and safety perspective, we've done, I believe just about everything that we could possibly think of. And if there are other good ideas, we will implement them. But what we're going to do is, think about it incrementally, watch it. And then we have to watch the data from all the communities around us like what's going on. So, do I think that there'll be moments when we all will need to pull back a little bit or when we can push forward a little faster? Of course. And so we need to make sure that our teams are prepared for that and that we can learn as we go.
David Katz:
Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate all the detail.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, David. So thank you everybody for joining us today. We hope everybody is stays safe and healthy and we'll talk to you next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks everyone.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2019 Earnings Call. All participants are in listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone. With me today in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Brian Gullbrants. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities Laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig, and welcome, everyone, to our fourth quarter conference call today. To kick it off, I’d like to start in Macau. So, we are currently focused almost solely on the health and safety of our employees, our customers and the Macau community at large right now in Macau. I’d like to commend the government of Macau and China, in fact, for the quick and decisive action that they take and continue to take to contain the coronavirus. We’re in daily conversations with the government. It’s been extremely transparent and they have been terrific partners with us as we focus on the safety of everyone in Macau. In fact, on February 5 at midnight, we worked closely with the government of Macau and all of the operators in Macau to cease our casino operations at midnight on February 5. It was a controlled and organized closure of the casino. We do still have our hotel and a couple of restaurants open for the few remaining guests that are in Macau. But during this time, while the casino is closed, our operating expense burn rate is roughly $2.4 million to $2.6 million a day. And that’s largely comprised of payroll to our 12,200 employees. Looking back to the fourth quarter, we generated $347.7 million of EBITDA. And like the past quarters, we experienced quick growth in core mass coupled with compression in the VIP segment. As we reported on the third quarter, October was actually quite strong, generating EBITDA of a little over $4 million a day. But we began to see deceleration leading up to the 20th year celebration handover of Macau back to China on December 20, just like the entire market. However, while it’s a short period of time, we did notice that beginning on December 23 through January 10, in a somewhat normal operating environment, our business jumped right back to $4 million a day in EBITDA between the 2 properties on a normalized basis. Moving to Las Vegas, we made $80 million in EBITDA with a $20 million negative hold impact during the quarter. On a full year, just to put in perspective, in 2019, our baccarat volumes were down roughly 30% in 2019 compared to all of 2018. And that contributed to more than a $50 million decline in EBITDA year-over-year. Our domestic business continues to be up in the casino and in non-gaming. RevPAR was up over 3% in the fourth quarter and our retail revenues were up double-digits. We’re excited about 2020 in Las Vegas. We have a 430,000 square foot convention center that’s opening in weeks to great fanfare. We have 3 new restaurants that will be more social dining focused and high energy that will be opening throughout 2020. And we’ll begin the remodel of Wynn Las Vegas, the 2,700 rooms here in the summer of this year and completing before the end of 2020. So we have a lot going on in Las Vegas and feel really good about all of the segments of our business as we continue to monitor the Far East segment as it relates to Las Vegas. Looking at Encore Boston Harbor, we doubled our EBITDA from the third quarter to the fourth quarter to $15 million. Our table games business remains healthy, reopened and table games is healthy, and it continues to grow and to be quite strong actually. And all the programs that we’re putting in place for our slot win, we launched the Wynn rewards program which is a first for us in North America, which is a tiered card program. We’re starting to see those things work at Encore Boston Harbor. In fact, our win per unit on the slot was up a little over 14% compared to the third quarter, and we’re continuing to see incremental growth on the slot floor. In 2020, we’re focused on continuing to match our food and beverage concepts with our customers. So destination dining for the overnight visitors as we’re ramping our hotel business there and providing more quick serve options for the daily visitors. So we feel good about the progress that we’re making at Encore Boston Harbor as we continue to ramp that property throughout 2020. With that, I’ll turn it over to Craig.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered adjusted EBITDA of $347.7 million on $1.1 billion of operating revenues. The quarter was characterized by strength in mass with combined property win in the mass segment, up 6% year-over-year. Our results in Macau were positively impacted by higher than normal direct VIP hold percentage, which increased EBITDA by approximately $17.5 million from a normalized level with the hold impact weighted more heavily to win Macau at approximately $12.5 million. The team in Macau has done a great job of controlling costs at both properties. At Wynn Palace, our operating expenses, excluding taxes were down both year-over-year and sequentially, which drove a 40 basis point increase in normalized EBITDA margin compared to Q3, despite the top-line pressure experienced market wide. At Wynn Macau, OpEx was flat year-over-year and sequentially, despite incremental payroll expense incurred to staff up the Lakeside Casino. We are well prepared to drive strong operating leverage when the market returns to normal. Our Las Vegas operations produced adjusted EBITDA of $80.1 million in the third quarter, on operating revenue of $368.8 million. Our results were negatively impacted by lower table games hold in both baccarat and domestic tables, costing us about $20 million of EBITDA as Matt mentioned. While baccarat was soft year-over-year on a tough comp, we saw 4% growth in non-baccarat table drop and slot handle. On the hotel side, RevPAR increased approximately 3% year-over-year to $288 driving $120.3 million of hotel revenue. Bad debt expense in Las Vegas was $4.1 million compared to $1 million in the prior year quarter, costing us $3 million in comparable EBITDA. The team in Las Vegas also did an excellent job controlling costs in the face of upward pressure on payroll, with operating expenses excluding tax and bad debt down slightly year-over-year. We spent approximately $49 million of project costs in the group space at Wynn Las Vegas in Q4 2019, taking our spend to date to roughly $351 million. Construction is now complete, and the expansion is slated to open in a few weeks. Encore Boston Harbor produced $15.3 million in EBITDA on a $169.3 million in operating revenue. Table Games hold was in the normal range. As Matt mentioned, we have a number of initiatives in play in Boston designed to drive revenue growth and we expect those initiatives will bear fruit over the course of 2020. We’ve also carefully managed our expense base there and operating expenses excluding gaming tax in Boston were down approximately 11% quarter-over-quarter. We anticipate making additional investments in the property throughout the year, particularly in food and beverage. But we are not yet ready to quantify the budget for those initiatives we expect they will be relatively modest. Turning to the balance sheet. During the quarter, we successfully completed $1 billion 10-year senior notes offering in Macau with strong support from Asia-based long-term investors. We intend to use the proceeds from the notes offering to repay a portion of our term loans in Macau. As a result, this will reduce our senior secured debt and related leverage ratio, while extending our maturity profile at an attractive rate. We ended the quarter with total debt of $10.4 billion, inclusive of the $1 billion of recently issued Macau bonds. We also had total cash and investments of $2.36 billion including approximately $1.8 billion of Wynn Macau and total company-wide revolver capacity of $1.25 billion. Our liquidity position, particularly in Macau is very strong. Finally, during the quarter, we returned over $100 million to shareholders through our quarterly dividend payment. With that, we will now open up the call to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Your line is now open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, guys, and thanks for the comments. I hate to be generic and more general, but if you can, just big picture, how do you guys think about things here in the near-term? And certainly, appreciate the color, Matt, on kind of the cost per day here during the closure. How do things look over there at present? What are you hearing in terms of the potential to reopen after the 2-week window? And most importantly, what do you foresee kind of on the backend of this?
Matt Maddox:
So, Carlo, I think it’s a little early to try to say when exactly we will reopen. We are – again, the team on the ground is working with the government on a daily basis and watching very carefully if there will be any continued outbreaks of the virus. And so far, we feel like things are fairly well contained and we’re just watching it very carefully. In terms of Macau in general, I think the way we look at it is, there’s been so much investment in the region and all the new infrastructure that was just coming to fruition with the high speed rail coming into Macau and the light rail launching, and it was really set up for a quite extraordinary 2020. We were quite excited about it. So I’m not – I don’t want to predict when operations will be back to normal. They will be eventually. We’re not exactly sure when, but Macau was set up for a really great rebound. Tourism was one of the first things that rebound in events like this, because people want to get out and move around and get back to normal. So we do feel good about the long-term aspects of Macau as soon as the virus is completely contained.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Your line is now open.
Joseph Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. I mean, there is a lot of uncertainty in Macau and I appreciate your comments on it. Can you spend a little bit of time, what you’re seeing from that Far East player going into Las Vegas? Can you share with us maybe your experience this past Chinese New Year, and as that segment has been challenged for a while as you alluded to a couple of different times on this call?
Marilyn Spiegel:
So you know we don’t really comment mid-quarter on what really happens during the quarter, but so far so good. We had our Far East come in. We had a party. We have taken appropriate precautions. The Far East, who are in town, they can’t get back to China. And so they are travelling from one location to another location. And so, if they were here first, they may have gone to another casino and we expect them to come back as they continue to play. But clearly, based upon the results, you can see from the fourth quarter, it’s still a very choppy market.
Joseph Greff:
And then, can you also remind us, sticking to Las Vegas, your expectations for room pricing this year, with convention center and some of the other amenity buildouts in Last Vegas. I guess, maybe some of which might be impacted by the room refresh this summer. How are you looking at room pricing for the 2 boxes in Las Vegas and how much of a multi-year ramp is that both on occupancy and on price, when you think about it longer term? And that’s all for me. Thank you.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Yeah, Joe, I mean, the room pricing and occupancy in Las Vegas, there is a street fight every day, right? And so, our convention business is very solid. We feel great reception to our product. We have leveraged our hotel rooms for the domestic casino growth that you’re experiencing or that you’re seeing. The rooms that will be out of order from June through the beginning of November are going to depress hotel revenue. But we will be sure to eliminate the low-end leisure business that often comes to market in the third quarter. And so, it was really planned for that particular time in terms of what will we end up with, occupancy or with rate, that’s a story to be written.
Matt Maddox:
And, Joe, we’re still focused as we’ve been saying for about a year now. That when the – as the convention center stabilized, and we’re seeing lots of interest in it as people are touring, it is booking quite fast, that the 4 to 6 points of incremental occupancy is still the target as we get into late 2020 and into 2021. I think we ended the year at roughly 87% occupancy. And we want to be in the low-90%s 6 months from now.
Joseph Greff:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix from Barclays. Your line is now open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, there. Thank you so much. So, Ian, for you, I was just curious, did the West Casino renovation open up at the end of the year?
Ian Coughlan:
It opened up in mid-November, 44 tables and did exceptionally well, lifted premium mass was incremental business for Wynn Macau. The marketing and operations team did great job launching it. And we were looking forward to a great Chinese New Year. It had done very well up to that point. And so we’re encouraged. And for the future, we still have elements of the facility to open in the first quarter. So we have 2 restaurants coming on board, fixed retail outlets and support areas. So it’s an exciting development for Macau. Plus, we have all our Encore room back after their renovation.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Your line is now open.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon. Maybe for Matt or Ian. Just wanted to get your sense on – I think obviously, the market was a little disrupted in Macau in December, given the President’s visit, but I was kind of curious on maybe your bigger picture view on maybe some of the implications of that visit. There were some, I think, some really positive reads about what that might have meant for kind of the near or medium term? And then any kind of just initial reads on the new Chief Executive and how those – kind of how some of those relations are going?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So I’ll kick it off. And then Ian, you can chime in. But as I said before, we thought Macau was really set up for a great 2020. We’re very optimistic about the new Chief Executive and the direction that he is taking Macau. We feel good about all the infrastructure that’s coming in place. Clearly, the visit in December by President Xi was wildly lauded around really all throughout China as Macau has done a great job with the 1 country and 2 systems. So we feel really good about Macau’s position going forward. Ian, do you have any thoughts on that.
Ian Coughlan:
We – 2 years ago, when the Greater Bay Area was being discussed at the governmental level, Macau was described as having a seat in one of the VIP carriages as the Greater Bay Area move forward after President Xi’s visit. It’s now positioned Macau in a leading role, which is wonderful for everybody in Macau business and community. And secondly, on the new Chief Executive, he barely sat in his seat and he has this huge virus maelstrom. He’s being quite amazing in his clear concise pragmatic communication with the community, and also with business. We’ve been in daily dialog with government and it’s been quite remarkable, and the decision making that he has done in his first few weeks.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen from Morgan Stanley. Your line is now open.
Thomas Allen:
Hey, thanks. So a couple of questions on Macau, how is business interruption insurance going to work? And then also with covenants, I know, you’ve been well under them, and obviously, you have a ton of cash. But will there be concessions given? And then finally, the cost containment was really impressive. Can you just talk a little bit more about how you’re able to achieve that? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Sure, Thomas. It’s Craig. I’ll take the first 2, and then we can talk about the latter. So generally speaking, business interruption insurance must relate to a physical event that caused the business interruption, so a storm or some type of damage. That obviously isn’t the case here. So we don’t expect material business interruption coverage, proceeds from the coronavirus event. To your question on covenants, the vast majority of our debt stack is comprised of long-dated unsecured bonds with no maintenance covenants. The 2 bank facilities do have maintenance covenants. The U.S. facility has more than ample covenant headroom to sustain a very prolonged period of suppressed business volumes in Macau. And the Macau facility does have a maintenance covenant that is sensitive to Macau EBITDA. And as I suspect several concessionaires do, we already have a game plan in place to manage that to the extent that the shutdown is extended, but it would have to be quite extended. And as you rightly pointed out, we have a ton of liquidity, we have a couple of billion dollars of availability between cash and revolver in Macau and that’s more than sufficient to last for really any period of closure. Ian, did you – would you kind of comments on the OpEx controls?
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. It’s just a team effort to collectively look at variable expenses. We were able to bring headcounts down. We have a hiring freeze in place. And the teams did a good job and parsing expenses but not hurting the quality of service and the quality of product and facility.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis from Instinet. Your line is now open.
Harry Curtis:
Hi, yeah, good afternoon. My question goes back to the comments that you made about the light-rail system. Was it – was an operation long enough to get any sense of whether or not it would be effective transporting more visitors to your properties?
Ian Coughlan:
So, Harry, this is Ian. And it had only been in operation for 3 weeks and still going through testing mode. It’s a great vehicle transfer situation for us with 2 stations right outside our property, but it’s too early to tell in terms of traffic movement, et cetera.
Operator:
Our next question comes from David Katz from Jefferies. Your line is now open.
David Katz:
Hi, afternoon. If I can just ask you to go back on one detail. You did make some mention and show some evidence of good cost containment. Can you talk a bit more about what levers and a bit more specificity around what you can do with costs? Are you encouraging vacation or any of those sorts of things that may mitigate some cost impact? And then secondly, I wanted to change the subject and talk a bit about Encore Boston, and just sort of get your updated view about what a ramp to a payback period might be over time and how you’re envisioning that. Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So this is Matt. For – on the cost containment side in the normal operating environment, I think, in all of our properties, we’ve been doing a very good job focusing on costs and being smart and efficient. Right now in Macau, the roughly $1.8 million to $1.9 million a day of payroll, we are not looking at cutting that at all. Now is the time when you invest in your people, you don’t do something short-term that will hurt the culture or cause any distraction. So we’re investing in the community right now because we know this will be temporary, and we think that it’s the right long-term investment. For Encore Boston Harbor, when we laid out the program, when we opened to Analyst Day, we talked about a 2-year ramp period. Admittedly, it has launched softer than we thought, and particularly on the slot side. And so we’re doing a lot of work. What we realized was, we didn’t have quite the right food and beverage program in particular around quick serve for the daytime slot customer. It’s actually the same thing that we went through at Wynn Palace. And when we opened, we realized we needed more quick-serve restaurants in Wynn Palace, we immediately closed a third of the casino. We built Red 8, we built 5 new restaurants in the meantime. And so we’re going through that process in a very fast way at Encore Boston Harbor, because when we see a problem, we fix it. So I think we’re still in that 2-year ramp up mode.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation in today’s conference. You may disconnect at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2019 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. With me today in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Ciarán Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today for our third quarter conference call. I'd like to get started talking about Macau. In the third quarter, in Macau, we generated $301 million of EBITDA. However, we had a hold impact from our direct business of approximately $22 million. We held negative 1% at Wynn Palace in our direct program and 1.2% in our direct program at Wynn Macau. The way the direct programs are structured, you pay commission on turnover not on win loss, so when you have abnormally low hold, that revenue mix significantly impacts EBITDA and that was a $22 million impact in Macau. VIP continued to compress and we did see some customer trial out at Cotai with some of the newer product at both City of Dreams and MGM, but I believe and we all believe that that is quite temporary. Mass continued to grow. We maintained our share in mass market and slots at 14%. And I'm pleased to say that while the VIP trends and the mass trends continued into October, we generated over $4 million a day of EBITDA during the month of October, driven largely by an 8% growth in our mass drop during that month. Moving onto Las Vegas. We've continued to see the positive momentum that we experienced in the first quarter. We had $13 million impact and hold in our baccarat business in Las Vegas. But if you take a look at the strategy and the way that we made the pivot to focus on taking market share in the domestic business, casino business and in slots, it is working and Marilyn and the team are doing a great job. We had 9% growth in our domestic table games drop and as well as 9% growth in slot handle during the quarter. Our hotel revenues grew by 5% during the quarter and retail is continuing to really gain traction as it was up over double digits in revenue growth during the quarter. The Las Vegas strategy is working and we're really excited about 2020. Moving on to Boston, at Encore Boston Harbor first I'd like to congratulate Brian Gullbrants as the new property president. He's been with us for over a decade and I know and we all know that he is the exact right person to lead that project. We've been opened for 136 days in Boston and we're learning each and every day how to become more local. We've been tweaking our food and beverage product to make sure we're giving the customers what they want. We've been working on our messaging and we now have new messaging out to the market. We are going to the first time in our company's history in North America launch a loyalty card tiered card program and that will be launching in Boston in the first quarter. And I'm sure as all of you that are very familiar with our business now that tier card program is essential in a regional marketing in a regional property. Our table games business in Boston and our hotel business has actually been quite encouraging. And we always knew the slots would take time to ramp. If you think about it, when we opened our doors in our local database, we had zero customers. Fast forward 136 days, we have 250,000 people in our database, which is significant growth. In order to compete in a high frequency market where people are coming multiple times a month, a robust database is necessary because you need to message to the customers what it is you're doing each week and why they need to come into the property. We are on the path to growth there and I think that we have the right team in place. So that's really the wrap on the third quarter, but what I'm excited about is 2020. And the reason is we began a transition with this company in 2018. We reallocated capital to Macau. We thought about Las Vegas differently. We focused on opening Encore Boston Harbor. And if you look at where we are today, I was in Macau two weeks ago, walking when Macau, our new property downtown, with Ian and Ciarán who runs the property and Linda looking at what's about to open in 60 days. We've taken everything that we know about compression of energy in space and what works in food and beverage in new hotel rooms and we've invested in Wynn Macau to make what we think will be the best premium Mass product on the peninsula and it will continue to gain share. We have 7,000 square feet of new retail that we’ll be opening, two new restaurants, the new casino and a fully remodeled Encore Tower. All of that opens at the end of this year and in early 2020. And we’ll position Wynn Macau as a market share taker in the very near future. Wynn Palace remains as the high quality environment that is really going to continue to be the aspirational property at Cotai. So it's not just our product that I'm excited about, when I was there and we were talking not just internally, but to our peers in the market, people are quite sanguine about Macau in 2020. There's a new government that's coming in and people are very excited about in December. A lot of the infrastructure projects that have been talked about and underway for years and years and years in Hanshin Island are starting to complete. Visitation in Macau has been up double digits for the last three quarters. So 2020 feels like Macau is well positioned for growth and that we are well positioned to capture our share of that growth. If you look at Las Vegas, we actually have more products coming online in 2020 than we have since we opened Encore in 2008. We have a 430,000 square foot convention center that's opening in 90 days. This convention center is on our golf course and has a 390 foot promenade with two story glass walls overlooking the golf course leading to an 83,000 square foot ballroom. That's almost two acres. And when we walk event planners into that space, their jaws drop and they ask where do we sign. That will be opening in 90 days. On top of that, we have three new restaurants that we'll be opening in 2020 creating an entirely different segment of social dining at Wynn Las Vegas and we are very excited about where we are positioned and how we're positioned against our competitors for 2020. And if you think about Boston, we're at the beginning of the ramp. We're not at the end. So each quarter we're going to be tweaking our marketing, we're going to be focusing on growing our database, working on controlling expenses and growing revenues and EBITDA each quarter. So I'm very excited about the transition that we've been through and the future of this company as we move forward into 2020. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Craig.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered adjusted EBITDA $301.2 million on $1.1 billion of operating revenues. The quarter was characterized by strength in both main floor core mass and premium mass with combined property win in the mass segment up 7% year-over-year. Our results in Macau are negatively impacted by a low direct VIP hold percentage as Matt mentioned, which decreased EBITDA by approximately $22 million from a normalized level with the hold impact weighted slightly more heavily to Palace at $13 million. Also, you recall that we received $11 million of insurance proceeds in the prior year quarter impacting the year-over-year EBITDA comparison. The team in Macau did a great job in the quarter of controlling costs at both properties without negatively impacting the guest experience. At Wynn Palace, our operating expenses excluding taxes were flat year-over-year and down sequentially, which helped drive a 200 basis point increase in normalized EBITDA margin compared to 2Q despite top line pressure. At Wynn Macau, OpEx increased slightly year-over-year and was down sequentially despite some incremental payroll expenses we begin to staff up for the West Casino opening. We are well prepared to drive strong operating leverage when the top line environment improves. Our Las Vegas operations produced adjusted property EBITDA of $88 million in the third quarter on operating revenue of $399.5 million with year-over-year growth in both baccarat and non-baccarat table drop and slot handle. On the hotel side, RevPAR increased approximately 4% [ph] year-over-year to $269 driving $116.1 million of hotel revenue. We held low in Las Vegas, which negatively impacted EBITDA by approximately $13 million. Bad debt expense in Las Vegas was $4.5 million compared to $500,000 in the prior year costing us $4 million in comparable EBITDA. We spent just under $60 million in project costs on the group space expansion at Wynn Las Vegas taking our spend to date to $302.7 million. This expansion is slated to open in the first quarter of 2020. We ended the quarter with total debt of $9.54 billion and total cash and investments of $1.68 billion including approximately $947 million at Wynn Macau. During the quarter, we returned over $100 million to shareholders through our quarterly dividend payment. We will continue to look closely at our capital allocation alternatives, including periodic increases to our dividends and opportunistic share repurchases. Finally, during the quarter, we completed a refinancing of our U.S. capital structure, which extended our maturities, streamlined our U.S. Restricted Group and simplified our collateral package for the U.S. and corporate entities. We believe the simplification of our U.S. capital structure will make it easier to understand and ultimately lower our cost of debt capital over time. With that, we will now turn it over to questions.
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli [Deutsche Bank]. Sir, your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey guys, thank you and good afternoon. Matt, you talked a little bit about the low direct hold in the period. Obviously hearing a negative number is pretty startling. Just in terms of – and I don't know that you guys are going to answer this, but just in terms of the mix of direct relative to your junket business at the combined assets in Macau right now, do you guys have kind of a ballpark that you could provide us to the mix of direct right now on a rolling chip volume basis?
Matt Maddox:
Carlo, we usually don't get into the mix between direct and our junket business. And so, I'd rather not get into those specifics right now. I do think that our direct will likely have more growth potential in particular Wynn Palace going forward as we're seeing some of the smaller junket operators consolidate into the top three. So our direct business is really on a customer by customer basis with our program run by Linda Chen. And I think that as we continue to ramp that piece up that I feel pretty good about where the direct business is going.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood. And then maybe just bigger picture in terms of what you're seeing in Macau on the VIP side, obviously, we were still facing some comparisons that were a little bit challenging in terms of role in the market, et cetera. With the performance in the quarter and obviously what you've seen over the holiday period in October, are you starting to see any kind of stabilization in the business, maybe on a quarterly sequential basis in VIP across the market?
Matt Maddox:
Well, I think that you've seen that commentary in the market that there feels like there's some stabilization. I think that a lot of people are very optimistic that that we're at a stabilization point and that 2020 could be a period where we're starting to see some growth. Carlo, in the past, we've spoken about, just to go back to your question, direct versus junket and it's ranged from 80:20 down to 90:10 between junket and direct. And it really is very quite volatile during the – from quarter-to-quarter. But we think that both our direct business has growth opportunity in 2020 and that the junket business hopefully will continue to stabilize.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you. That's helpful. And then just if I could one follow up on Boston Harbor and the ramp there, when you think about kind of the – obviously driving that slot business and kind of building that database, the other side of the equation is obviously the cost side. And if I kind of just adjust for gaming taxes and the period knowing this is very simplistic and crude way of doing it, you kind of arrive at 1.45 million a day or so to run the property. I assume you're not going to be willing in the near term to sacrifice the experience all that much. But over time when you think about the ability to take costs out of the building with some of the changes that you ultimately make, do you see there being plenty of cushions in there to do so as we look out to 2020 and beyond?
Matt Maddox:
I don't want to say there's plenty of cushion, but clearly when you open a property, you have more staffs than you end up meeting when you're operating in a very efficient way and also as well as how you procure items. You do just get smarter. And so, I would think that the 1.4 million will definitely be – have a downward trajectory through 2020. Craig, do you have any thoughts on that?
Craig Billings:
I would agree with that. That's likely to be peak for the near-term.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you guys.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Sir, your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Hello everybody. Craig, could you give us hold adjusted EBITDA margins at the two properties in Macau and the 3Q?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Greff. Wynn Macau was 30.4% and Wynn Palace was 29.2%, which is about 200 basis points higher than Q2.
Joe Greff:
Got it. And was there any renovation disruption that Wynn Macau from the West Casino construction? And is that part of maybe the hold adjusted EBITDA and the mass growth acceleration in October relative to the 3Q?
Matt Maddox:
I think there's definitely a disruption from the renovation. Again, just walking the property two weeks ago, it's hard to quantify because we're not seeing large drops in volumes coming in the door, but about half the building is behind construction walls, the podium level. So there's definitely some disruption. And I think we're just going to see what the impact is going to be when we open our new facility in about 60 days. It's really targeted for the premium mass customer. And Joe, if you – you know the property well, the new gaming floor feels very similar to Encore in Macau, but it's anchored by two restaurants and has two entrances to the boardwalk that go between MGM Wynn and SJM, which is very heavily trafficked and before it had no entrances. So we feel really confident that the way we've repositioned this property away from smaller mid-tier junket operators and two the premium mass market is going to work.
Joe Greff:
Great. That's helpful. And then as you kind of look at the growth in mass in October that 8% year-over-year growth that drove that $4 million of EBITDA per day, how much of that is share gain versus market dynamics and just relative growth rates in mass? And then my final question, skipping over to Las Vegas, can you remind us what some of the specific strategies going after some of the domestic gaming segments versus where the focus was heretofore? And that's all for me. Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So again, our drop was up 8% in Macau on the mass side. I don't necessarily think that's share gain. I think that's we're continuing to keep pace with the market at about a 14% market share between mass and slots. Ian, do you have any additional thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
It's really just the daily hand to hand combat and all of the initiatives that we put in place over the last two years. We continue to aggressively drive our signup of our loyalty program. That was up 48% in the third quarter versus the third quarter last year. Wynn McCowen in particular has driven that up very heavily. Through the construction disruption, we focus very much on our players. We've increased the number of holes on the floor and we're hiring up now for the new 44 tables that we're introducing at Wynn Macau. Also at Wynn Palace, we've introduced a new pit of 20 tables just off our high limit at table games area, which will also be very fruitful for us. We moved around some slot machines. So in both properties we continued to change the floor and react to the customer base.
Matt Maddox:
And I'm going to let Marilyn to talk a little bit about the strategy in Las Vegas.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Sure. So the – really it's a three part strategy. First off with people installing the right people in casino marketing; secondly, making sure the marketing was correct and adding the technology that we needed to really market to those guests effectively, both our current guests to reactivate and bring in new guests and third was using the amenities that we have. So we were able to leverage our rooms to really grow the domestic business.
Joe Greff:
Great. Thanks guys.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Felicia Hendrix from Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, thank you very much. Marilyn when we have you – while we have you I may have missed this, but in the prepared remarks, Matt or Marilyn can answer this. Did you guys talk about in Vegas how much your baccarat business was either up or down? Or how that performed in the quarter in Vegas?
Marilyn Spiegel:
Well, at baccarat drop was up for us in the quarter. We played very unlucky and that's really the issue that we had. We had more players who were big players and beat us year-over-year. And so, that was what’s happened in baccarat. But we still see them coming and believe that that we are the property of choice for them.
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes. And that's – thank you for that because that's actually where my question is coming too because as we're at the end of earning season and various companies had made various comments about the high-end baccarat player in Las Vegas and some have said not to expect them to kind of come back, others have done better. So it seems like you're kind of on the end of the spectrum that you're still kind of operating business as usual in that part.
Marilyn Spiegel:
We actually believe it's a cyclical issue in baccarat. It's not a structural issue. And we think that they will continue to come.
Matt Maddox:
I agree. I mean if – for people to try to predict the travel patterns of 1.4 billion people in China and many billions of people in Asia did not come to the world entertainment capital in Las Vegas, I think that's a mistake over a 10 year period. Las Vegas is going to continue to reinvent itself. We're continuing to invest and it is a place where people like to go. And so, I agree with Marilyn. It's temporary. This is not a change in customer behavior.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you. That's, that's helpful. And then – and Matt maybe you could talk about Japan for a moment. In the quarter, you made an announcement about a change of strategy there. Maybe you could help us – walk us through that? And how you're looking at Japan now?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So we've been working on Japan quietly behind the scenes for almost a decade now. We have spent 85% to 90% of our time in the Tokyo Bay area, talking to over the last 10 years. So we didn't necessarily change strategy. I think we just publicly said that we would not be pursuing Osaka, which is something that was – something we were going to announce eventually. And we believe that there will be opportunity in the Tokyo Bay area. We are working with various consortium partners now and we're doing things quietly and behind the scenes. I spend. I go over there about one week out of every couple of months. We have people on the ground. We're building up our team. I still believe this is going to be a longer process than a lot of people are anticipating. And we're going to make sure that if there is something that's right for Wynn that it is financially sound that the project is something that will change the company and we’re with partners that share our same values.
Felicia Hendrix:
And how were you thinking about returns there as given the potential high costs?
Matt Maddox:
And that was my point, Felicia.
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes.
Matt Maddox:
We are going to pursue Japan with vigor, but we will not pursue it if it does not make financial sense. So we're going to be very disciplined in terms of how any structure is put together, what the costs are going to be and what a return profile is going to be. So we liked the Japanese market. We think that it will be a very high revenue market, but we're focused on making sure that it will be something that our shareholders will also like.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Thank you. Much appreciated.
Operator:
Thank you. Our next question is from Shaun Kelley of Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Good afternoon everyone. I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit more about how you're thinking about supply growth in Macau into 2020. I think Matt in the prepared remarks you mentioned a little bit about some customer trial for new product this year. There's obviously some new stuff opening in your neighborhood, but probably more like in the second half of next year, but you also have some infrastructure coming in. So maybe just some of the pros, cons as you're thinking about the longer term outlook there.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. I'll give you my thoughts and then Ian, I'd like for you to take it as well. The major supply growth outside of SJM’s property has really already happened. I think all of us operators now are continuing to refine our projects and build out in the areas where we think there'll be high returning high ROIs. Galaxy is continuing to build many non-gaming amenities and we do have the Crystal Pavilion that we will be presenting that is an additional 700 plus hotel rooms in Phase 1 in an entertainment facility. That will unlikely really begin in earnest until 2021 and complete in 2024. So I think right now Macau has more infrastructure and more visitors coming to the market then it will an increase in supply. Ian, do you have any thoughts?
Ian Coughlan:
I think we'll start to see the arrival of new product or revised product in the marketplace after 2020. I think later in 2021, we'll see the arrival of SJM, which we believe that Grand Lisboa Palace is going to drive additional business for Wynn Palace in particular. We'll see a Sands Cotai go through their transformation into The Londoner. And most of that will take place in 2021 and it will be spread like a lot of the projects have been over the last four years. With infrastructure, we’re excited about the light rail system, which has been under build for nearly eight years and comes to fruition later this year, hopefully within the next 10 to 12 weeks. And that has a drop-off point right outside of our Wynn Palace property. It connects directly to the Cotai Ferry Terminal in the airport. And we think that that's going to bring a lot more visitors to this general area of Cotai.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, thank you. And then just in the – you give us an inch, we take a mile camp. Just going back to the comments around October, obviously it implies a very nice sequential improvement from what you recognized in EBITDA for the third quarter. Just for people that not extrapolate too much into that, any color you could give around. Does that include just normalized hold because there's a big bounce back relative to what you actually recognized? Or did you hold a little heavy in that that helped that trend at all? Or was it golden week or any other seasonality?
Matt Maddox:
Well, you had golden week, which helps October. We actually generated more than $4 million a day, a little more than $4 million a day. But on a normalized basis, it was right at $4 million a day for the month of October.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Thomas Allen from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you. So just sign of struck to me in the press release was that you're going to Boston hold of 16% to 20% on tables in Vegas 22% to 26%. I'm guessing a lot of that is game mix. But if some of that also you expect hold to kind of ramp as the property – as the property ramps? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Thomas, it’s Craig. Yes, it really has to do with how markers are handled and the ability to repay markers in the pit in Las Vegas and not repay markers in the pit in Boston. It purely has to do with regulatory.
Thomas Allen:
Okay, helpful. Thank you. And then there was announcement on a sports betting partnership this past quarter. Can you just talk more about what you're doing there? Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Craig, I will let you to take that one.
Craig Billings:
Sure. We have a sports betting strategy that's very focused on high quality products and various selected markets. So we're likely to launch a sports betting product early in 2020 in New Jersey and then move out to selected states and ultimately hopefully deploy that product in Massachusetts where we think that will be a game changer for Encore Boston Harbor.
Thomas Allen:
All very helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Harry Curtis from Instinet. Your line is open.
Daniel Adam:
Hey guys. This is Daniel Adam on for Harry. Just one question on our end. So you had a $22 million direct VIP hold impact in the quarter, but if I look at your overall VIP hold percent in Macau, it came in at 3%, so at the high-end of the normalized range. So I guess my question is – well you must have held high in your junket business. What was the positive hold impact in the non-direct VIP play in the quarter? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
It's Craig. We're quoting it net of high junket hold. So we're giving you our normalized EBITDA impact inclusive of that high hold in junket.
Daniel Adam:
Okay, got it. So the direct impact was even greater than $22 million is what you're saying.
Craig Billings:
Yes, correct.
Daniel Adam:
Okay. Thanks guys.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Stephen Grambling from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Thanks for taking the questions. One quick follow up on Las Vegas. Can you just expand on the puts and takes to think about into 2020 both at the market level and then what you're doing at the property as we think about any of the initial reads you might be seeing from ConAg, the golf course or some of the new space? Thanks.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Sure. The golf course opened up in first weekend in October. It's been great. We often have more demand than we have supply for the number of players coming to the course. So we feel really great about that. 2020, of course, February is the launch of the convention center. And we will see a good growth in the convention center, but during the Investor Day, you'll recall that we talked about the room remodel. And so the room remodel is going to hit in June and it's going to mostly take up that time with leisure rooms. But we haven't refreshed our rooms at Wynn for eight years and it is time to do so. So that will be factored into 2020 also. But as we think about 2020, the convention business being solid, that casino business continuing to grow and then we plan on good FIT business and leisure business that will fill in the gaps.
Matt Maddox:
The strategy has been – so many of our competitors are not investing in my opinion as they should in our product, in their products. And so, we have a real opportunity to continue to capture market share at the higher end of the business. So we will be completely reprogramming the lake of dreams with new shows. We're remodeling all of our rooms at Wynn Las Vegas. We have a new convention center. We have new restaurants. We're spending the money to create an entirely new fun experience here while a lot of our competitors are not doing that. And so, we see real opportunity in Las Vegas to capture share. The market may be growing along with the economy, but we'll be capturing share.
Stephen Grambling:
Perhaps that's a good segue to my follow up. And I realized you are on a path to deleveraging the balance sheet, but could you share any thoughts on how the cap rate, implicit interest rate and structure of the Bellagio transaction announced impact, how you think about financing and/or capitalizing the business?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. I'll start off with that. So if you look at where OpCos are trading and where these deals are occurring, it appears to me that the way that our North American assets are valued. We're getting full value for our real estate. And in order to grow in this business, you have to continue to invest to capture more market share. I'm not quite sure right now that this OpCo/PropCo structure in the Las Vegas market where you have to heavily invest, I'm not sure one plus one equals two if you look at the way the OpCos are trading. So we feel very comfortable with the way that we're running our business with owning our real estate and we believe we're getting proper value. Craig, do you have any thoughts on that?
Craig Billings:
Yes, I would just add that obviously being an OpCo exposes you to much greater volatility and sensitivity throughout the economic cycle, particularly at the tail end of the economic cycle. So there's a whole host of operating considerations. And as Matt mentioned, investment considerations that you have to take into account before you access a funding source like that.
Matt Maddox:
It appears to me that they borrowed $4.2 billion at an average rate of 8% over 30 years and guaranteed the debt. I think that's what that trade was. So that's an interesting source of capital but an expensive one in my opinion.
Stephen Grambling:
Fair enough. And then should we be expecting – just one last quick one. Should we expect any kind of capital investment in Boston as you’re thinking about right sizing some, what's going on there? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
The capital investments that we're talking about are reconfiguring restaurants. We're building out a sports bar that could potentially become a sports book, so not large capital investments. We do have 11 acres of land across The Street where many developers have been talking to us about partnerships, where we could have new hotels, retail, et cetera. So we've been thinking about that more as landlords and partners as opposed to outright developers. But first we're going to ramp Encore Boston Harbor. And then we're going to watch the neighborhood build out.
Stephen Grambling:
Super helpful. Thanks so much. Best of luck.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have David Katz [Jefferies]. Sir your line is open.
David Katz:
Hi afternoon everyone. I wanted to just address Las Vegas and specifically there's a piece of property across The Street from where you are that if know memory serves, it traded at one time for 37.5 million an acre. And obviously you paid quite a bit less than that. What are your thoughts about – what you could or might do with that given that the Vegas market has episodes of high trading and we seem to be in one of those?
Matt Maddox:
So we like owning that land as option value. We've invested significant capital in Wynn Las Vegas over the last two years to position this product, to take more market share. We are continuing to think about what could work on the 33 – 36 acres across The Street. But in order to really understand what would work, we believe that first we need to see how Resorts World opens, which is coming in the next 18 months, I believe. Get a feel for the market; watch the Raiders stadium come in. Right now, it's expensive to build in Las Vegas. The trades have more jobs than they have manpower. So what we want to do is watch and see how the Las Vegas market expands with this new product – projects coming on board and then we can determine what will make the most sense to increase shareholder value on that 36 acres.
David Katz:
Great. And if I could, Craig, just go back to sort of what – how we should be thinking about target leverage at this point and the capital allocation alternatives update? And apologies if I missed it at the very beginning, I got on just a couple of minutes late.
Matt Maddox:
No problem, David. Nothing significant has changed since we had our Analyst Day in July. We published free cash flow targets at that Analyst Day. They're available on our website. We've historically talked about leverage – steady state leverage in the 3.5 times net debt level, which is actually pretty close to where we are today. We continuously look at the dividend. We'll look at it again early in 2020. And to the extent we are able to be very opportunistic from a share repurchase perspective we will do that, so really sticking to the strategy that we've previously discussed.
David Katz:
Is there an open authorization?
Matt Maddox:
There is.
David Katz:
Okay. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Ricardo Chinchilla from Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Ricardo Chinchilla:
Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the question. I was wondering if there's any progress with regards to the terms of the lease that you guys are going to do between the convention center and the Las Vegas entity.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, thanks for your question. So in connection with the refinancing that we most recently did, one of our stated uses of the revolver was to purchase the convention facility from Wynn Resorts and bring it down into the restricted group. There will then be a lease between the entity that holds that within the restricted group and Wynn Las Vegas. We will put that lease in place at the point at which we make the purchase which we anticipate to be very early in Q1 2020. We haven't disclosed any terms on that lease, but you should assume it would be market.
Ricardo Chinchilla:
Perfect. Thank you. And could you please just provide us with the CapEx number for the quarter?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. Total CapEx was $242.3 million system wide.
Ricardo Chinchilla:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Chad Beynon from Macquarie. Your line is open
Chad Beynon:
Afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Regarding the Hong Kong travel disruption that we saw in the third quarter, do you have a sense or could you quantify what this may have meant for your customers to Macau to the Greater Bay Area? And then also has this ended as we enter the fourth quarter? Are you still seeing some of this potentially playing into current business fundamentals? Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
It's really hard to quantify because you're seeing visitation in Macau increase. I do think that it has impacted our premium business that would be the fly-in traffic in the Hong Kong that gets picked up in one of our luxury cars and driven over to Wynn Palace or Wynn Macau. But I think it's been hard for us to actually quantify that impact. Ian, do you have any thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
There's been some residual impact more about people that would travel through Hong Kong and then come onto Macau, but I don't think it's been market significantly impactful. With all the other headwinds that are there, it's hard to break out. As long as the airport stays in operation, that's a very good feeder for us as you referenced in the premium mass sector.
Chad Beynon:
Great. Thank you. And then Marilyn, just a follow up on the strong convention commentary that you noted for 2020. Are you still confident that this can kind of drive a 5% occupancy lift at the property? And given that there's been more details coming out over the past couple of quarters on a Legionnaire MSG Sphere and just the timing of the cities convention expansion. Could this actually be higher than a 5% lift given extra demand coming to the city? Thanks.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Wouldn’t that would be great. But frankly, I think what we've said is 4% to 6% additional occupancy and we see that right now. But again, a reminder that you won't really see the full year impact until 2021 once the rooms come online and the convention center has been operational.
Matt Maddox:
Remember that's long booking business. So that's business that tends to book 18 months out. And so, you really see the convention – increased occupancy from the convention space come into its own in 2021.
Chad Beynon:
Thank you very much.
Matt Maddox:
And with that operator that will be our last question. So thank you everybody for taking the time to join today and we'll see you next quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you all for participating in today's conference. You may disconnect your line and have a great day or a great evening.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2019 Earnings Call. All participants are on listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference [Operator Instructions]. This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, President and Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon everyone. With me today in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks Craig. And thank you all for joining our call. As we look back at second quarter, I'd like to start with congratulating the 5,000 new team members that we have in Massachusetts for opening Encore Boston Harbor. The property opened on June 3rd to much fans there, thousands and thousands of those tourists coming in and the property has not disappointed. The reviews have been terrific. People really appreciate the quality. And our service levels are beginning to ramp to Wynn standards. We've seen some really positive impact in the casino on the table game side. And in Boston right now, table games are performing well. Our hotel is beginning to ramp and we are working on various offers and promotions to really understand the highly competitive slot market in the Northeast, and believe that with our properties' location, with our management team and with our product, that we will continue to ramp that property and take share in the Northeast. And we look forward to sharing more results as we have more days under our belt after our third quarter. Moving on to Macau. We generated $343 million of EBITDA this quarter. Macau is currently a really core mass market driven market right now. Our core mass was up over 22% compared to last year. That compares to core mass up 13% in the first quarter. We're continuing to see some choppiness in the premium market and in the VIP market. As an example, April EBITDA on a combined basis was down 21% over the last year. Yet, May and June, were up over 7%. And our VIP turnover in May and June were essentially flat with last year. So really what that tells us is you can't look at one month as a trend. As an example, the July numbers were recently put out by the DICJ, and it was pretty clear that there was some softness in the VIP sets. We do not look at that as a trend. We look at it as a data point and fully believe in our premium market focus as we continue to take share in the core mass. Looking at the properties specifically. At Wynn Macau, we saw mass revenues grow over 10% and that validates our strategy as we reposition Wynn Macau last year to turn it from a largely VIP junket house by reconfiguring the West Casino, remodelling the Encore Hotel Tower, building three new restaurants and an additional 8,000 square feet of retail, all of which will be completed by the end of this year, positioning Wynn Macau as a market share taker on the Peninsula for 2020. Looking at Wynn Palace, mass revenues were up approximately 6%, which was led by core mass up in double-digits, offset by softness on the premium mass side. Wynn Palace continues to be the leader in quality and in luxury in the Macau market. It's clear that we need more rooms at Wynn Palace. And at our Investor Day, we laid out our program for the Crystal Pavilion, which includes 1,300 new rooms, 650 rooms in Phase I, plus the Crystal Pavilion itself, which is a non-gaming development that has a new theatre concept, a collaboration with a museum that's going to have one of the largest collections of Chinese art on the planet, as well as 14 new food and beverage outlets. The Crystal Pavilion, coupled with the rooms, will make Wynn Palace, "the must see" destination in Macau. Moving to Wynn Las Vegas. I have to congratulate Maryland and the team in the Wynn Las Vegas for an extraordinary quarter and executing our strategy. It was the first time in over five years where our RevPAR increased by more than 9.5%. But what I found much more interesting was our focus on the casino, which for the last five to six years, had largely been ignored. As an example, our domestic table games business was up 12% this quarter when the overall Las Vegas strip was down 6%. Our slot revenues were up 12% this quarter when the overall Las Vegas strip was only up 7%. Our Baccarat revenues increased 5 times faster than the market. Clearly, we had some high hope. But even on a drop basis, our Baccarat drop was up 16% this quarter, while the market was only up 11%. So it's quite an extraordinary result, which was a strategic change in focusing on the casino and driving additional visits and more play. Another thing that I was really proud of the team is our net promoters score at Wynn Las Vegas was the highest in the company's history. A net promoter score is a simple question that we ask all of our hotel guests. And over 40,000 people responded this year, which is similar as to year as past. Which is, would you recommend Wynn Las Vegas to your friends and family? This year, we outpaced the luxury hotel benchmark by over 15% and have the highest score in 2019 in our company's history. So through the cultural shift that's occurred in Las Vegas, I think that that single fact coupled with the numbers says a lot of about this management team and what we've been able to achieve. You take the strong operational prowess and combine that with all of the capital improvements that we launched last year, a 400,000 square foot convention center that's going to be open in six months. Thomas Keller, the renowned chef will opening its first fine dining restaurant in Las Vegas in 2020, here at Wynn Las Vegas. Enrique Olvera, the top Mexican chef in North America has two of the top 50 restaurants on the world's best, will be opening his first restaurant in Las Vegas at Wynn Las Vegas in 2020. It'll be also opening a new separate club club of Delilah that I think will the next evolution of nightlife in Las Vegas. So you combine all of these new projects with what our operations team has been able to deliver. And I believe that Wynn Las Vegas will continue to be market share takers here in Las Vegas. Our vision is clear. We're going to continue to take market share in Las Vegas. We're going to own the premium market in Macau. And we're going to ramp Encore Boston Harbor to be the top grossing Casino in the northeast. We're very confident in our strategy. And what that's going to do to do is produce significant free cash flow for our company and for our investors. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Craig to get into more of the numbers.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered $343 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $1.18 billion of operating revenues. As Matt noted, the quarter was characterized by strength and main floor core mass with combined property win in that core mass segment of 22% year-over-year. Our results in Macau were positively impacted by VIP hold, increasing EBITDA at Wynn Macau by approximately $8 million from a normalized level. Bad debt expense at Wynn Macau was comparable year-over-year, while at Wynn Palace, a swing from a $2.6 million credit in last year's quarter to $2 million expense in this year's quarter, costs us nearly $5 million in year-over-year comparable EBITDA. During the quarter, we spent $23.5 million on the West Casino refurbishment and Encore refresh, taking our spend to-date to approximately $42 million. Our Las Vegas operations delivered $137.4 million of adjusted property EBITDA in the quarter on operating revenue of $464.1 million with year-over-year growth in both Baccarat and non-Baccarat table drop as well as slot table. On the hotel side, RevPAR increased 9.5% year-over-year to $300, driving $127.6 million of hotel revenue, which is a property record. Property held high adding approximately $12 million to EBITDA. Bad debt expense in Las Vegas was $2.4 million compared to $1.7 million in the prior year quarter. We expect $58 million in project costs on the additional group space at Wynn Las Vegas, taking our spend to-date to $246.6 million. In Boston, we incurred $187.6 million in total project costs during the quarter, taking our total spend to-date to $2.45 billion. The remaining CapEx and construction retention of approximately $150 million will be paid over the coming quarters. We ended the quarter with total debt of $9.15 billion and total cash and investments of $1.51 billion including approximately $804.3 million of Wynn Macau. During the second quarter, we returned over $100 million to shareholders through our quarterly dividend payment. We will continue to look closely at capital allocation alternatives, including periodic increases to our dividends, as well as opportunistic share repurchases. With that, we will now open up the call for Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you [Operator Instructions]. Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Good afternoon. Craig, Matt, could you talk a little bit about the impact that maybe the core mass growth relative to the other segments is having on margins? If you just kind of look at palace specifically, margins there were a little softer year-over-year. And given the mix, you would somewhat anticipate that maybe the mix of revenue would be advantageous for margins, but we didn't see it in this quarter. So maybe you could talk a little bit about kind of what's driving some of the margin pressure there?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. I'll start with that, it's Matt. So if you look at our operating expenses in the second quarter per day, they are roughly the same as the first quarter or the fourth quarter. What we had in the second quarter is we had really low hold in the direct part of our business and VIP, which that mix definitely impacted margin. And on the premium side of the business, while core mass was up significantly with the premium mass being down, that did impact the operating leverage and it did impact the margin side. So it's really premium mass coupled with low hold and direct.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thanks Matt, that's certainly helpful. And then look, I know this is very hard to answer, but bigger picture. Clearly, with the -- not only the protest in Hong Kong but obviously the rhetoric around trade war, et cetera. We've seeing mixed results coming out of the Macau, I would say, over the last several months. Obviously, one data point here or there as you mentioned for July doesn't really make a trend necessarily. But from the ground and maybe some of the guides in Macau would be even better suited to answer this. Are you seeing guys anything that's materially different or behaviors that have changed given some of the aforementioned?
A - Matt Maddox:
So, I'll jump and then I'll have Ian answer. Clearly, in July as you saw from the ICJ report, there is some softness in VIP. And when you have hundreds of flight cancels out of Hong Kong and some reluctance to travel, I do think that that's impacting the premium into the business. However, that to me feels very temporary and has really nothing to do with our business, and everything to do with what's going on in the region. Ian, do you have any further thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
No, the same headwinds existed for the last nine months continue. And clearly, what's happening in Hong Kong, albeit it's more recent, is certainly going to impact business in the short-term as you've described. And there's being disruption to people movement between Hong Kong and Macaw and that looks like it's going to continue for the next few weeks at least.
Carlo Santarelli:
And then, Ian, if I just could one follow up. Obviously, VIP on a sequential basis across both of the assets was relatively stable in aggregate. Do you feel like that business has changed, or is kind of the stability and role just more of the same, and what we're looking at year-over-year just more has to do with comp stacks and luck factors as it pertains to revenue?
Ian Coughlan:
VIP continues to be very choppy for the same reasons as the last 12 months to 18 months. I wouldn't suggest that there's stability there. We have some good months and then we have bad months.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Just with respect to the junket business in Macau, Matt, Ian or Craig. Can you talk about sort of maybe the more recent, if there is more recent volatility with sort of key junkets and how well for that business is obviously have a lot of use flow on key junkets and what they maybe going through? Can you talk about how the ratio of junket business is, and if one junket might be experiencing volume declines, how's that impact the business in the aggregate? And then just a follow up to the Carlos question about the margins at Wynn Palace, if we were to normalize for those, hold impact in say the 2Q and 1Q at Wynn Palace. What would be a normalized hold EBITDA margin in the 2Q and 1Q just to better understand that dynamic? And that's it for me. Thanks.
A - Matt Maddox:
Ian, why don't you take the first question? And then, Craig, I'll let you handle the marketing question.
Ian Coughlan:
So we have business with the same junkets that we've had over the last 18 months. They go through periods of choppiness. One junket is up one is down. But there's nothing material about a specific junket that we do business with at this point.
Craig Billings:
On the margin point, Joe, the low hold indirect VIP high holding junket phenomenon that we experienced in the quarter and then the mix shift that Matt referred to on the premium mass and core mass side probably costs us 150 basis points to 200 basis points of margin.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, thanks a lot. Ian, I'll start with you. For those of us sitting at our desks in the U.S., this latest trade war tensification and RMB devaluation, seems like it could have an incremental impact on demand. You guys have characterized what you're seeing as the continued choppiness. But I'm just wondering is -- and I know its super early, because it just happened but could we see another, like down? And the second part of that question is, is there a point where the macro affects the mass and obviously, it's already affected the supreme mass, but I'm really asking about the lower tiers of mass.
Ian Coughlan:
Based on visitor arrivals, which continue to grow, I don't think core mass is going to be affected. And I think it's too early to call the latest gyrations in the trade war.
Felicia Hendrix:
I'm wondering if -- I can't remember is Linda on the line, I don't know what maybe she's hearing from some of the folks that she's been communicating with recently.
Matt Maddox:
No, she's not on the line today.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay, yes. Because that's obviously like the biggest concern that folks are having right now, but it is early. Also, through the -- since your Investor Day, one of the -- a lot of the questions that we've gotten on the Crystal Pavilion project was how you were thinking about the targeted return of 15% to 20%. And I was just hoping that you could talk about what was driving that view, and why we should be comfortable with that outlook?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So I'll start with that. Again, clearly, Wynn Palace needs more than 1,700 hotel rooms. I think you can see from some of our competitors that have just ramped up their new quite nice hotel product, what that has done to their bottom line. Our hotel is full. And on the weekends, we're turning away customers that we do not want to be turning away, and we know that they will spend more time and more money with us if they're staying with us. That coupled with the multigenerational travel that exists in Asia much different than really anywhere else in the world, the Crystal Pavilion is going to attract lots of customers, but also as we see at Cotai, families travel with customers. So we think that the Crystal Pavilion Entertainment -- the Crystal Pavilion project will be attractive to a much broader audience and we've estimated that we expect over 10 million visits to that on an annual basis. So the premium mass will be in the hotel and we think that we'll get significant incremental visitation from the core mass with the project.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great, that's really helpful. And my final is just for Craig just housekeeping, I think it was at Palace where your bad debt slips from a credit to and expense, which affected EBITDA. Can you just talk about the expense in the quarter? Is that just more normal course, caution, reason to think anything from that number?
Craig Billings:
No. We have pretty rigorous process of aging our receivables, that's formulaic. It's not reflective of any particular micro trend. And so it's normal course stuff. So we went from $2.6 million credit in the prior year quarter to $2 million of expense in the current year.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Matt, just can you give up the operating environment that we're in a little bit more broadly, and the growth that you're seeing in the core mass business. Is there anything you can do that's outside of obviously a meaningful room expansion to remix the property, or sort of optimize palace to take advantage of the market conditions as they are today. And anything you guys are thinking about there from a operating or expense perspective that would make sense to adjust?
Matt Maddox:
Well, Shaun, we have been doing that. So for our core mass to be up 22%, that's not by accident. We're running significantly more marketing events and concerts and programs. We are really looking at continuing to drive that business. And I believe we are taking a large share of the core mass relative to our unit base, so with our -- roughly 300 games of each play. So Wynn Macau will be perfectly positioned to continue to take additional share in core mass starting in 2020 as we finish that program. And I just like to again remind everybody, the premium business is not going away. We've all seen this over many, many years in 2016, and 2012, when it artificially contacts for a very short period of time and people focused on core, and then it expands quite rapidly. So what we're not going to do is change who we are. We are the premium operator and we will continue to be the premium operator. But during this time, we are capturing I think more than our fare share of the core mass growth.
Shaun Kelley:
Thanks for that. And then just at a high level, you guys have laid out sort of the 15% to 17% market share range. I think on our mass, you are still in that range just at the very low end of that. Is that still something you're broadly comfortable with, obviously, quarterly volatility or hold notwithstanding?
Craig Billings:
Yes, that's our range that we're still focused on for the year.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
So two questions on Vegas, first, broadly the property did really well in the quarter, but food and beverage revenue was down. Was there anything a nuanced about that? And then second, Vegas Baccarat was really strong in the quarter for you -- people are being cautioning about that business. So how should we think about the outlook for Vegas Baccarat, going forward? Thanks.
Marilyn Spiegel:
So, in food and beverage, I mean, clearly, we have a new competitor in marketplace in night clubs, and it's a very promotional market right now. But we're pretty firm in our belief, great product, great service is going to overcome any competitive pressure there. But that's what’s happening in food and beverage. And then when it comes down to Baccarat, it is what you see here in the choppiness is what you see in macro events. And so we're not sure what any quarter is going to do for Baccarat. But we were delighted with this quarter.
Thomas Allen:
And then just on Palace, on the mass table wins. It's been kind of -- it's been stable at around $300 million bucks for six quarters now. Do you think that's kind of the right run rate for the foreseeable future until we see -- you see Crystal Palace on, or see a big ramp up in that premium play?
Craig Billings:
It's really very market dependent, Thomas. So I believe as premium comes back, which it will, we're going to be a net beneficiary of that. Timing when that comes back is not -- it's quite hard. But I would expect to see growth once we -- once the premium customer begins to come back to Macau.
Thomas Allen:
And you think this level is defendable given the strong core mass business?
Craig Billings:
It certainly has been for six quarters. So we feel comfortable with our business model and the direction that we're going.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Instinet. Your line is open.
Harry Curtis:
I had -- I apologize I've been bouncing between calls. I hope this wasn't asked. But in Boston, can you talk about your strategy in building your slot business? And in your experience, how long does that typically take to get to a satisfactory level?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. I'll start and then I'll turn it over to Bob DeSavio. So we've targeted a 12 month ramp up, Harry. And what we're doing is we're making sure that we're not going to get into promotional war with our competitors who are quite nervous about Encore Boston Harbor. So we're reacting to what our slot customers are telling us. We're looking at understanding what promotions work, how coins translate comp dollars and what prizes what gifts are working. And we are really focused on. Its guerrilla marketing out there and we're really focused on that. And we have the right team to do it. So Bob, do you want to jump in on that?
Bob DeSalvio:
Sure. One of the things we're primarily focused on is database building. So right now, of course, we're trying to sign up as many new customers as possible. We're doing quick evaluations in turns and making sure that we communicate with them. Overall, when they see the property, great response, very positive. But as you know, this does take time to get through the ramp process, but we are all over and working on it.
Harry Curtis:
And my follow up question is related to the acreage around Boston. You've been somewhat active buying up some key acreage. How long does it take for that to become commercially viable for you guys? And are you looking at joint ventures? How meaningful might joint ventures add to your cash flow over the years?
Matt Maddox:
So the planning and permitting process does take quite a long time in Massachusetts. And we're not in with any formal programs right now. We are talking to various potential partners, because I think joint ventures can really work on that 11 acres for additional hotels that might be not quite the Wynn standard and other entertainment offerings, because this will be an entertainment destination in the Boston Metroplex, and those 11 acres are going to be very valuable. So we're taking our time to make sure that we have the exact right program, and understanding what it is that we need to drive more visitations to our casino.
Harry Curtis:
When you talk about entertainment, I guess I'm -- is there any just kind of 30,000 foot framework that you can put around that. How do you define entertainment?
Matt Maddox:
We've been approach by people that would like to think about putting an arena there for various events. We've been approached by people that like to do the outdoor districts that have lots of various entertainment aspects, but on a more boutique level. So we were evaluating various proposals. We're not in a rush but we do think that that's going to really add to the area and to the revenues of Encore Boston Harbor over the long-term.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Just one follow up on Boston. What would you need to see to start thinking about becoming more aggressive at targeting VIP players at the property? I think you had said that you were going to wait a little bit before you really start turning them?
Matt Maddox:
That's right. What we've determined is we want to make sure that our service levels are at the Wynn standard, and that's not easy. The team is doing an amazing job, getting there and really a very, very quick way. But we'd always said let's give at least 90 days before we start hitting our full database at Wynn Las Vegas to offering people offers there, and directly marketing to our higher end customers. So the idea of that would be sometime in the fall.
Stephen Grambling:
And then one other follow up from the event back at Boston. The $250 million in CapEx, I think that you outlined is part of the $16 free cash flow per share. Can you just remind us what is and isn't included in that number?
Matt Maddox:
Q - Stephen Grambling:
And so that would be what you're -- I guess is there any other maintenance CapEx that we need to be thinking about, or other ROI projects that we should be factoring in?
Matt Maddox:
Well, I think we've outlined everything between the food and beverage program in Wynn Las Vegas, the tailing CapEx for the group space in Las Vegas, the maintenance CapEx needs that we have across property, I think are well modelled, including in your model and in the Crystal Pavilion in Macau. That's really our pipeline.
Operator:
Our next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Your line is open.
David Katz:
Thanks for all of the detailed information. You've covered quite a bit, a bit more hypothetical. If and when you decide to grow, are you thinking more about growth domestically or internationally? We obviously are aware of Japan and what that opportunity is, but irrespective of that, do you have more of an inclination one way or the other?
Matt Maddox:
We're going to always focus on large-scale integrated resorts that can move the needle on a Company of our size. So there are some large domestic markets that are talking about a third license, for example, in New York, but without really understanding how that would work, where it would be, it's hard to say how appealing that is, but we're keeping a very close eye on that, as well as, lots of people are spending lots of time in Japan including us. And so any time a market that could support a Wynn style property would open, we would be interested, but we're agnostic between domestic and international.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Anil Daswani with Citibank. Your line is open.
Anil Daswani:
Thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to focus a little bit on Wynn Palace and the Crystal Pavilion. Matt, could you tell us how much integration is there going to be between these two properties, and as a consequence, does that lead to any disruption at Wynn Palace going forward?
Matt Maddox:
No, it shouldn't. So we have 7 acres of land adjacent to Wynn Palace, and we had actually built a retail corridor that was going to connect to Phase 2 that we never opened. Currently, it's housing Art Macau. If you were to go over there and look at all of the art installations that we ran for Art Macau. But that thoroughfare is closed off to the public normally, and that will be the connection into the Crystal Pavilion. So outside of construction traffic on the roads, the overall property should feel very little impact on the new construction. Ian, do you have any thoughts on that.
Ian Coughlan:
No, I think we knew we were going to develop both those plots of land. So, in fact, a lot of the back of house integration of those properties is already planned for. The facility of Wynn Palace as it exists has made provisions for a lot of back of house support.
Anil Daswani:
Thank you. And as my follow-up, could you maybe, Ian, tell us if there has been much of a disruption impact in Wynn Macau from your remodeling that's obviously going to be completed at the end of this year?
Ian Coughlan:
Nothing significant, it's certainly visually disruptive, but I wouldn't say, it's had a material impact on business. We are 40% of the way through remodeling the Encore rooms and we're hoping to have everything finished by the end of the year.
Operator:
I'll now turn it over to the host for final remarks.
Craig Billings:
Okay. Well, thanks for joining today, everyone. We'll talk to you next quarter.
Operator:
This concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2019 Earnings Call. All participants are on listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference [Operator Instructions]. This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon everyone. With me today in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox and Marilyn Spiegel. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks Craig and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us. The quarter was pretty much in line with our expectations. And I think I'd just like to jump right in and talk about Macau. So in Macau, we generated $386 million of property EBITDA. And as we've discussed in previous quarters, VIP was down and the premium area continues to be choppy. However, what we saw was we saw real strength in our core mass. In fact, our core mass increased over 13% year-over-year, and what that shows is that our strategy is working. We built five new restaurants at Wynn Palace over the last 24 months. Our visitation continues to increase. And what's interesting in March of this year, Wynn Palace achieved its highest normalized EBITDA on record. And 78% of that EBITDA was from the mass business and non-gaming. If you look at Wynn Macau, Downtown, we're continuing to perform in line exactly with our expectations as we're renovating that property. The Encore Tower, which are probably the nicest rooms in all of Macau, the average side of the room there is 900 square feet is in a full renovation now. Not just soft goods renovation, but a full renovation. And that will be complete by the end of the year. We also looked at the success of our Encore casino in Macau, and those approximately 30 games are one of the most productive casino floor plans on the planet. And we thought what can we do to replicate that in half of our casino, our original casino what we call the West. And so we began a project about nine months ago that should wrap up at the end of this year, that will take our original casino that's right now chopped up with various junket rooms, and the energy has been suppressed. And it will turn it into what I think will be the nicest premium mass destination in downtown. With 7,000 new square feet of retail entering this area, two restaurants flanking the new casino and this should all be finished by the end of the year. So Wynn Macau's best days are ahead of it. 2020 should be a great year for Wynn Macau. In Las Vegas, everything was pretty much in line except for Baccarat. And I think it's no surprise that the people on this call Baccarat was down for us quite significantly just as it was for the market, so all of our competitors felt that Baccarat was definitely soft in the first quarter. What I've been impressed by is Marilyn coming in, and her team understanding that Baccarat is in a temporary decline and focused on the non-Baccarat casino business. And for the first time in a long time, our table drop, excluding Baccarat in the first quarter, actually increased 10% over the last year. And I give a lot of credit to Marilyn and her team and the new marketing people that she has brought on to focus on areas where we have not focused as carefully in the past, and I think it's an area of growth for us in the future. There's been a lot of discussion about new jurisdictions opening up in Asia and around the world. And it maybe Baccarat's best days or behind it in Las Vegas, or that Macau can continue to see some cannibalization. And what I would say to that is I totally disagree. We've experienced gaming expansion in the United States for decades, and we're experiencing at now in Asia. But what always happens is customers will go try out the new product. They'll go to a place where they are getting free money and big discounts, but that never lasts. Customers with money and choice always go to the place that they enjoy the most. And you cannot replicate Las Vegas or Macau anywhere else on the planet; the number of hotel rooms; the entertainment options; the infrastructure; the service levels, it can't be replicated. And so, our company and our growth profile are properly situated to bet on the future growth of the two best gaming jurisdictions in the world, Las Vegas and Macau. And I am a very firm believer that our product is positioned perfectly in both of those markets. In Massachusetts, we received a decision from the MGC regarding their investigation last week. Importantly, there was no impact on the suitability of the company, or its key employees to hold a gaming license in the state. And we are ready to move forward of the opening of Encore Boston Harbor. However, we are still reviewing the decision as it relates to some of the secondary and tertiary conditions imposed by the commission. We do not believe if we choose to appeal if that will impact our ability to open the project at the end of June. Though the regulatory processes comes into great deal of resources at both the company and with the regulators, we are focused on opening this property within weeks. And we feel very confident that it will be the nicest integrated resort on the east coast. So before I turn it over to Craig, I'd just like to remind everybody about why I am such a big believer in this company. We've been through a significant transition. And there has been some turmoil over the last 15 months but that is now behind us. And if you look at our future and you look at our company and our growth profile, I believe it's unparalleled in this business. In Macau, we have 1,300 rooms 700 plus in phase 1 plus the Crystal Pavilion that we've made significant progress on for Wynn Palace and that project is needed for Wynn Palace to continue to grow and we're really excited about it. We're about to open Encore Boston Harbor, which is a step change in our EBITDA in weeks. Here in Las Vegas, we have a new convention center opening, doubling the amount of convention square footage we have over the next six months, multiple new restaurants coming into the property and a fresh look at the way we think about our casino business. So our growth profile is quite strong and I am big believer and we are all big believers that Macau and Las Vegas best days are ahead of it. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Craig to get into some of the details.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt. I'll run through some additional point on the quarter. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered $386.5 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $1.25 billion of operating revenues. As Matt noted, the quarter was characterized by continued choppiness in VIP and premium mass, offset by meaningful growth in main floor core mass with combined property win in that core mass segment, up 13.1% year-over-year. March was particularly strong with Palace experiencing its best month ever in mass drop, mass win and EBITDA. Our results in Macau were positively impacted by VIP hold, increasing EBITDA at Wynn Palace by approximately $25 million from a normalized level. Bad debt expense in Macau was $1.8 million in the quarter compared to $300,000 in the prior year. Our Las Vegas operations delivered $108.3 million of adjusted property EBITDA in the quarter on net revenues of $401 million with year-over-year growth in non-Baccarat table drop and spot volumes. As discussed on our fourth quarter 2018 call, a large group shift from Q1 to Q2 this year negatively impacted RevPAR growth and food and beverage revenues in the quarter. We expect offsetting outperformance in RevPAR in the second quarter. Consistent with the broader Las Vegas market and our commentary on the fourth quarter call, Baccarat volumes declined year-over-year and such declines were the primary driver of the year-over-year EBITDA increase. The property held high, adding a little over $5 million to EBITDA. Bad debt expense in Las Vegas was $3.6 million compared to 400,000 in the prior year quarter. Compared to the prior year quarter, EBITDA margin in Las Vegas was negatively impacted by the swing in bad debt and operating deleverage from baccarat. We spent $48.8 million in CapEx on the additional group space at Wynn Las Vegas, taking our spend to-date to $181.5 million. In Boston, we incurred $233.4 million in total project costs during the quarter, taking the total spend to-date to $2.26 billion. We ended the quarter with total debt of $9.2 billion, and total cash and investments of $1.8 billion, including approximately $900 million at Wynn Macau. During the first quarter, we returned approximately $81 million to shareholders through our quarterly dividend payment. And today, we're pleased to announce $0.25 or 33% increase to that recurring quarterly dividend. Our recurring dividend is now one dollar per share, returning over $100 million per quarter to our shareholders. Consistent with our sharp focus on capital allocation, we will continually evaluate periodic increases to our dividend, as well as opportunistic share repurchases as valuation and broader capital allocation priorities warrant. With that, operator, we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you [Operator Instructions]. Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Matt or Craig, if we can go back and discuss Macau, as you guys talked about, specifically at Palace. You really saw a nice boost in base mass. And obviously some of the changes that you are making at Peninsula should certainly further that effort. If we think about the Macau market in a flattish environment for say 2019, and guys think about your positioning obviously given the impact of your positioning in mass in VIP and premium mass, you would expect some share a loss there. Do you believe with some of the growth you are seeing in mass and some of the pivoting that you could that you would be able to offset some of the share losses from both a margin and EBITDA perspective over the course for the year?
Matt Maddox:
When we are looking, it's always hard to predict exactly what's going to happen in Macau. But we do believe with our product that we will be able to stay within that market share range of -- it's a lower end of it, of 15% to 17%. As you know, our competition has been ramping-up. MGM just opened The Mansion, which is quite nice product, Morpheus is ramping up. So Cotai is a really competitive place. But we feel like Wynn Palace is perfectly positioned to continue to maintain its share, and Wynn Macau is really about 2020.
Carlo Santarelli:
And then if I could just one follow-up as it pertains to some of the tariffs news that's out there, et cetera. Are you guys hearing anything I guess more specifically from some of your higher end players that the impact some of the ambiguity around that is having right now?
Matt Maddox:
I think anytime there is uncertainty in the world, all of us feel a little bit nervous, whether it's you sitting in your office at Deutsche Bank, me in Las Vegas, or someone in Shanghai. That's just a natural human reaction. I can't say that there is clear data pointing to slowdown and we're looking forward to moving forward.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
I have two questions. One is on Las Vegas on the Baccarat segment. To what extent is the softer demand recently experienced, a function of things that aren't related to the macro, or say shifting geographies that you referred to Matt, but rather maybe other structural things, whether its capital outflows or other? And then my second questions relates to M&A. I mean, I think maybe most of us or probably some, to some degree surprised about the Crown news. So my question isn’t necessarily about Crown, but just about M&A in general. What are the criteria and the goal posts that you have when evaluating M&A opportunities and what are the things that fit, what are the things that you look for financially and strategically?
Matt Maddox:
So on the Baccarat side, in Las Vegas and I'll also let Marilyn jump in here. But I don’t really think we are seeing any long-term sustainable trends I think we are experiencing exactly what you understand. And we definitely think the second quarter is going to be little better than the first quarter based on what we're seeing right now. So, I don’t want to be predicting Baccarat volumes. But Las Vegas over the long-term is a global destination for those customers from around Asia, and I feel very comfortable with that. Marilyn, what do you think?
Marilyn Spiegel:
There's really no structural change here that would impact these players. So it's all the global headwinds. And I think that hopefully that these players will be back if that's what the past has been.
Matt Maddox:
On the M&A front, so Joe as I laid out in my opening remarks, our growth pipeline is quite robust. And the large capital spend is now behind us after a multiyear capital development program as we're about to open Encore Boston Harbor and really become -- really start generating lots of free cash flow, which is one of the reasons that we raised our dividend by 33% this year. When it comes to M&A, we will always be looking for opportunities for assets that are tier 1 first class assets with licenses that are protected in cities that are global destinations. So while we are not pursuing any acquisitions at this stage, we will along with all of our competitors, I'm sure, be looking at opportunities that you can't replicate through development. We are a development company at heart. We're focused on new projects. But we will continually look to enhance shareholder value without increasing our leverage profile and without hurting our free cash flow story.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Matt, just coming back the layers a little bit more on the market share issue, and you’ve said this a lot on your past calls you want to stay in the 15% to 17% range but if you could just help me with the math for a second. If we use the DCIJ data, which I realized is still flawed. It looks like mass share in the quarter did decline sequentially. And I'm just trying to reconcile that with your commentary that you saw strength in the core. So is that basically just because you did lose more premium, but you're gaining core but it just didn't offset it. Is that all that you would read into that?
Matt Maddox:
That's exactly right. So premium, we definitely lost some share in premium mass and the premium mass business around town was down. Core mass, which is we define it by geography and by average bet, core mass is up over 13% but that was not enough for us to keep up our share in the market. I think our -- Wynn was up roughly 3% sequentially, and that was that that was less than the market. And that's because we're more reliant on the premium segment. But our strategy is working and it shows that Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau can really compete in any markets. And Felicia, you've been watching this for a long time. People get really focused on core mass, because that business is always there. Premium and VIP get compressed temporarily, and then the growth happens. So I don't know how long that that area is going to be compressed, but what I do know is the demand is still there. And so we feel very comfortable that when that business begins to come back, we're going to be perfectly situated to capture it.
Felicia Hendrix:
And then when you were talking earlier answering Carlo's question, and you said, we'll stay in the 15% to 17% range, we're now perhaps at the lower end. Is that also indicative of what you're seeing in early May?
Craig Billings:
I would that the trends that occurred in Q1 market wide really have continued into Q2 through May. It's a very core mass serving growth market. And we don’t -- we skew towards the premium end that's truly math as well. So to the extent that there is outsized growth in core mass, we will benefit from that, partially but clearly not as much as the market, because there are others in the market who directly cater to that segment.
Felicia Hendrix:
And Matt just a clarification, at the beginning of your comments, you eluded to gaming competition globally and some perhaps that you are experiencing in Macau. And while that's not a new comment in general, I don’t believe I've heard you say that on a call like this or I've heard Wynn, in general, talk about this. So how would we interpret the comment relative to your performance in the quarter?
Matt Maddox:
Well, I don’t think you should look into the performance in the quarter at all. I've just noticed some of our competitors another people tend to be commenting a lot on these emerging markets, in particular in Asia and that they could have an impact on the large global gaming jurisdictions. And I just don't believe that Macau and Las Vega are going to be cannibalized by those small tertiary jurisdictions that are emerging. In the short-term, they could. We're not seeing that right now. But over the longer term, people always go back to the places that they enjoy the most. And so I wasn’t addressing that relative to this quarter, I was just addressing it relative to what we're seeing in the market and what we believe will be the long-term success of Macau and Las Vegas.
Operator:
And next we have Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Maybe just to stick with Macau and the core trends there, could just -- I think you could talked about the share shift as it might relate to other markets. But Matt, I think you also called out just that some of the competition is moving around. Do you think we were in a fairly normalized environment as it relates to that competition in Q1? Meaning is there more this year as we move forward. Or do you think this is the right environment now and we're pretty comfortable with how your product is situated with what you're seeing in the market at this moment?
Matt Maddox:
Shaun, I definitely think we're in the normalized environment right now. There are no large scale gaming jurisdictions coming on in the next few years. Some junket operators may move business around, but that's always temporary and it will come back to the places where the customers want to go. Ian, do you have any thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan :
We go through this after 12 years in Macau, we get these periods of sporadic volatility, VIP Wynn's, for a variety of reasons. And then it ticks back up. People always gravitate to quality. We're always there to pick it up when it comes back. So we stayed in the junket game when other people backed out. We made hay while the sunshine. Now, there's pressure on commissions and incentives. We're going to remain true to what we've always done, and people will come back. In the meantime, we grow premium mass and general mass.
Shaun Kelley:
And then same scene, but moving back to the Peninsula, you obviously are undergoing a meaningful renovation there. Could you just walk us through the cadence of how you expect that to progress throughout the balance of the year? Was there a meaningful disruption in Q1? And is there a number or anything worth calling out there and then how should we think about that. If there was or was not, how should we think about that continuing throughout the balance of the year?
Matt Maddox:
So I'll jump in and then I'll turn it over to Ian. I don’t think that there is any number we should be calling out, because what we had before the construction was a sleepy casino that actually wasn’t generating a lot of business. So, this is more of growth CapEx that we're putting to work. We definitely have rooms out of order in the Encore Tower, which have been impactful on our business. But, I think it's hard to quantify right now. And 2020 is really the year to judge Wynn Macau and its earning ability. Ian, what are your thoughts on this?
Ian Coughlan:
There hasn't been significant noise disruption that was all dealt with in the early stages. We have anywhere from 80 to a 100 rooms out at any given time in Encore, and we're getting them back progressively. And there is the hoarding wall effect when you wall up areas to do work, that does affect the energy of the space. It has affected retail a little bit as we brought in new brands. But in general terms, there's not a number to put to it and it's not significant. And we're looking forward to getting it complete at the end of the year.
Operator:
The next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Hey. Good afternoon. So, in your prepared remarks, you talked about how you're taking a fresh look at how you're thinking about the casino business in Vegas. Can you guys just talk and Marilyn maybe talk about some of the changes you made since coming back? Thank you.
Marilyn Spiegel:
So, the key has really been to take a look at our casino block and to grow that and to invite the folks who come to town, who didn't use to stay with us to experience the hotel and our food and beverage offerings, and it's been well received. So, we've seen very nice growth in the casino block as it relates to the past.
Thomas Allen:
And then, I think you removed the parking fees, can you just talk a little bit about that decision.
Marilyn Spiegel:
When you think about the parking fees, although if you came here and you spent $50, you had a validation, it was frankly an irritant to those folks who would drive into the parking garage and frankly most people who come here do spend more than $50, but why upset them. And so, we did that. It also helps us with our high end local customers. It's been so well received, we're very pleased that we've moved forward on it.
Thomas Allen:
Helpful. And then, just quickly on Boston, I mean, we're a month and a half out, how are things progressing in terms of getting in the staffing in line and then infrastructure around the property? Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
The construction is almost essentially complete. The building looks like it is in great shape. Staffing, we have 90% of the people either onboard or within offer. So, we are in line to -- and on time to complete almost everything we need to have a great opening. I don't know if the opening date will be June 23rd or a week or two later because we're going to make sure that it's flawless. And clearly, the regulatory complexity we've been through has been a challenge. And so, we are now doubling back. And the team we have on the ground there is terrific. We are ready to open. We may give our self another week, we may not, but the property looks great.
Thomas Allen:
Looking forward to seeing it. Thanks.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Instinet. Your line is open.
Harry Curtis:
Hi and good afternoon. While we're on the topic of Boston, now's probably a good time to begin to set expectations for the ramp in Boston, particularly margins, given that most Wynn properties when they open, tend to run kind of rich in high service levels and labor. So, if you could take the opportunity to set some expectations on that front?
Craig Billings:
Yes. I think it's a fair assessment to say that not only do our properties tend to run very high service levels early on and account for some given level of attrition but regional properties, as you know, tend to ramp much more slowly from a marketing perspective. So, we haven’t given any specific numbers or any specific margin expectations yet. But certainly, we would expect that property to ramp up over the course of ‘19 and all the way through ‘20.
Harry Curtis:
Very good. And second question is, just going back to the Crystal Pavilion, what details can you share about timing, cost and features that you are excited about?
Matt Maddox:
So, we’re working on that now, Harry. We are going to have a reveal of the Crystal Pavilion in a pretty public way. I'm not sure if it will be through an Analyst Day or something else down the road. We're finalizing a lot of the different features I think that you are going to find them very interesting. It will be in the next couple of months that we’ll be laying out this program.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. And then, my last question, just really going back to your commentary about some customers in Macau, just trying some of these smaller, newer agent casinos. To what degree do you think some of those customers are just gravitating there because the regulatory environment in Macau has just gotten a lot tighter?
Matt Maddox:
I don’t think that's the case at all. And I think when new -- people will say that because they are marketing their properties in these jurisdictions. But the fact is, often times in places open, they offer bigger commissions, more liquidity, larger credit lines, and that's typically very temporary.
Operator:
Our next question comes from the line of Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
With the Boston property essentially complete can in terms of the investment, can you just remind us how you think through CapEx, not only for that property but more broadly? And as cash flow inflects, how you stack your properties across debt versus redeploying cash back to shareholders versus growth investments?
Craig Billings:
Sure, Stephen. Well, subsequent to the opening of Boston, we will have some trailing CapEx, right, as we pay up the remaining construction cost; those get accrued and then obviously paid throughout the remainder of ‘19. And then, we are working on the additional group and convention space out back in Las Vegas as well, that opens in early 2020. So, really, 2020 is the inflection point that you talk about. It’s rapidly approaching, as you note, and capital return is absolutely top of mind for us. The recurring dividend is really the cornerstone of our capital return policy. And I think you saw we raised that 33% today really as an indicator of our belief in our business and our belief in that cash flow inflection point. As we grow and generate additional free cash flow, we’ll carefully prioritize that between immediately available growth opportunities, most notably the Crystal Pavilion, capital return and then the maintenance of some dry powder for future opportunities, whether Japan or otherwise. And then, of course with respect to share repurchases, we will always be opportunistic with share repurchases but that's really valuation dependent on the stock.
Operator:
Next question comes from Anil Daswani with Citigroup. Your line is open.
Anil Daswani:
Thanks for taking my question. The first question is with regards to this base mass business and the strength that we're seeing in the base mass business. How much is that eating into your room inventory at the different properties in terms of the comp ratio at both Palace and Macau is my first question?
Matt Maddox:
Ian, do you want to take that? I mean, not -- we haven't lowered our threshold for ADT in order to get a comped room in Macau. So, I'm not sure what eating into means exactly, you still have to qualify in a certain way. Clearly we're not having as many junket rooms. So, our problem, Anil, as you know, is we don't have enough rooms, and we need more rooms at Wynn Palace. And that's really -- at the weekends, we're out of space. And so, more mass customers are getting rooms just as a direct reflection of direct and VIP being down. Ian, do you have any thoughts?
Ian Coughlan:
So, that's correct. We've been able to gainfully shift rooms from the junket allocations, this business is weighing over to our mass segment. And ADTs on the way up, we're putting better customers in those rooms. So, the comp level ratios are similar to what they've been in the past, around 80% for Wynn Palace and 94% for Wynn Macau.
Anil Daswani:
And my final question is, could you give us any update Matt on the progress in Osaka and in Japan? I mean, are you guys still as committed to that as you have been in the past?
Matt Maddox:
We are. We will actually be making a trip there next week. And so, we have a team on the ground. We have a team here in the United States that's focused on Japan. We're building quietly our relationships with potential partners over there. And we're focused on various jurisdictions in Japan. So, we're looking at this over the long term. And we will be continuing to monitor the situation and participate where we see fit.
Anil Daswani:
Thanks for taking my questions.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks Anil.
Operator:
And our last question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Your line is open.
David Katz:
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I wanted to just go back to the M&A boundaries a little bit. And I heard what you said about leverage levels and accretion. But, can you help us think about any other sort of strategic aspects of attributes that may be compelling to whether that's in different segments of the market, right, where there more value-driven customers might help you branch out? A little more meat on those bones would be really helpful.
Matt Maddox:
I hate to lay out our strategy for everybody, David. But, I'll tell you what we're not going to do. We're not going to go into the value business. We are high-end operators, we're quality operators and we will be looking at quality assets around the world. We're not regional gaming operators. So, that's not an area where we're going to be branching out in a significant way, given there will likely be lots of regional gaming properties for sale. So, we're focused on where the growth is happening globally. We believe that Asia will continue to grow faster than the West. And if there are opportunities in those areas where we believe it fits with our profile and it will be accretive and it will be able to capture long-term growth for our Company and our shareholders, we will take a look at it. But we do not have anything right now that we're focused on.
Operator:
I'd now like to turn it back over to our host for final closing thoughts.
Matt Maddox:
Well, thank you everyone for joining us today. And we look forward to talking to you next quarter. Thank you, operator.
Operator:
Thank you. That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2018 Earnings Call. All participants are on listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon everyone. With me today in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox; Marilyn Spiegel; and Ian Coughlan. Also on the line are Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks, Craig, and thank you, everyone for joining us today on this conference call. Before we just dive right into the fourth quarter numbers, I’d like to make a few opening remarks. 2018 was a year of transition for our company and that transition is now over. We have a fully reconstituted board with Phil Satre as the Chair, working very well with management. In North America, we've hired a number of key people. We hired a new Chief Marketing Officer that started about two months ago. We've hire a new Head of Human Resources for all of North America. And within the last 30 days, we've hired Marilyn Spiegel, who is sitting beside me today as the new President of Wynn Las Vegas. I'd like to welcome Marilyn back because she did work with us for three years in this role, almost 10 years ago and I'm really excited to work with her.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Thanks, Matt.
Matt Maddox:
So now that we have our board in place, our team in place in North America and we're continuing to grow our team in Boston and what I believe to be the best team in Macau, running Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace in place we're ready to execute our strategy and our strategy is growth. I believe that we have the best and most robust growth pipeline in our industry. As an example, five months from now, we're going to be opening the very first large-scale integrated resort in a Tier 1 city, Encore Boston Harbor. The Boston metroplex, it's 20 million tourists a year, two million of those are international, and we have a $2.6 billion property that we're going to be opening right in the heart of the Boston metroplex and we'll be all alone. We're really excited about that opportunity. It provides a step change in EBITDA for our company and that's in five months. Looking here in Las Vegas. Las Vegas is now a marketer's market. You can see by the overall growth rate here on the Strip that it's pretty much in line with the economy. And so we know that we have to take share. And right now in Las Vegas, we have a 400,000 square-foot convention facility, state-of-the-art under construction. It's going to open in 13 months. We know that that's going to add four to six points of additional occupancy at a strong rate to our property in 2020, and everybody on this call knows when you get additional occupancy with a strong rate that's straight flow through. We've also redesigned with Tom Bosio, our golf course and it will be opening around the same time. And not only does that golf course make money on its own, but we've underestimated the impact that it has on our domestic casino business, allowing our host and our team to run special events, to run programs that will continue to enhance our casino play. We have three new restaurant concepts underway here in Las Vegas that we're going to be rolling out in 2019 because our customers expect us to continue to innovate and that's what we're doing. So I feel very good about the position -- the long-term position of our property and the ways that we're investing here in Las Vegas. Turning to Macau, if you look at our downtown property Wynn Macau which has always been an outlier in terms of its performance relative to its size, we realized in the early 2018 in the first and second quarter that Wynn Macau is doing very well, but it was making a disproportionate share of its money from second-tier junket operators. And that's not a place where we wanted to invest for the long term. We've been to that movie, we know how it ends, that is too volatile. So we began redesigning Wynn Macau the entire original casino and also remodeling some of the nicest suites in Macau, the Encore Tower Suites. And we started that construction in July. And in the fourth quarter of this year we'll be re-launching an entirely new premium mass casino experience that's open to the water, three new restaurants, 10,000 square feet of additional retail and a new hotel tower that wasn't just a soft refurb of the Encore tower, but it's completely redone like it's new property. We'll be effectively launching a new property at the end of this year for Wynn Macau, this focus squarely on the business that we believe in for the long term and that's the Premium Mass segment. Moving to Wynn Palace. Wynn Palace continues to position itself as the premier property at Cotai. Ian and Linda and the team have been opening a new food and beverage outlet almost every quarter in the last four quarters and he has another one coming up in the next six weeks. I’d like him to talk about which is really exciting. And so, what we see at Wynn Palace is as it continues to get into its rhythm, it's the place where the premium players like to stay and like to play. Now what we know is, we don't have enough hotel rooms. It’s 1,700 hotel rooms. So we are actively designing what I think will be the top tourist destination in Macau with the Crystal Pavilion something that I've spoken about a couple of times on these calls along with a phase I hotel tower of 670 rooms and a phase two hotel tower that's roughly the same size. So our growth pipeline is quite impressive. If we just take a look at where we are right now and where we are going to be in the next 12, 24 and 36 months. Turning to the fourth quarter results. In Macau we generated $394 million of EBITDA. It was above our range that we gave in the third quarter. I would like to point out that we've spent the vast majority of October and November inside the range that we provided in the third quarter. And the inherent volatility of Macau makes predicting the market revenues, given everything that's going on with the head -- the global headwinds, potentially slowing global growth things that companies now all over the world are talking about not just us, does it make it more difficult. As an example Wynn Palace in October and November revenues were down slightly to fourth quarter 2014 October and November. But in December, they increased 50%. On the VIP side, that was mainly hold, but on the mass side, it was up 40% in mass play in December. Clearly, that's not a number that we would extrapolate. It's not something that we would say is a trend, but what it shows is the inherent volatility in Macau exist. There are peaks and there are valleys. But the way that we positioned our properties, we will be there to capture the premium customers when they come to town. Looking at Las Vegas. We made about $105 million of EBITDA this quarter. In the third quarter, we had a setback in our baccarat volumes. We had lost some market share, but we recovered. We made a few changes in the marketing and the way that we're looking at the business. We recovered in the fourth quarter and I feel good about Las Vegas considering everything that we have going on here that I mentioned earlier in the call with the convention center, the Gulf course, the restaurants, Maryland stewardship driving this property every day. I think that the Las Vegas best days are yet to come. And with that, I'm going to turn over to Craig for a little more detail on the quarter.
Craig Billings:
Thanks, Matt. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered $394.1 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $1.294 billion of operating revenues. After experiencing a normalized average of $3.6 million a day from October 8, the day after Golden week through November 30, results improved in December on the back of increased VIP turnover in Wynn Macau and higher mass win at Wynn Palace. Overall, for the quarter, combined property mass table win was a particular standout increasing almost 14% year-over-year. Comparable to Q3 over 70% of our departmental EBITDA in the quarter was generated in mass tables slots and non-gaming. Our results in Macau were positively impacted by VIP holds, increasing EBITDA from our Macau operations by almost $15 million from a normalized level. Bad debt expense in Macau was $3 million in the quarter compared to a $1 million credit in the prior year quarter. Our Las Vegas operations delivered $105.2 million of adjusted property EBITDA in the quarter on net revenues of $393.6 million driven by growth in table drops, slot volumes and RevPAR. Table volumes were strong, but hold was low negatively impacting EBITDA by about $5 million. RevPAR in the quarter was also strong bolstered by a healthy group calendar and more high ADR casino room nights. RevPAR was also aided by relatively easy comps given the tragic events of October 2017. Bad debt expense in Las Vegas was $1 million compared to a $1.1 million credit in the prior year quarter. Compared to the prior year quarter, EBITDA margin in Las Vegas was negatively impacted by low hold and the year-over-year swing in bad debt. We spent $52.4 million in CapEx on the additional group space at Wynn Las Vegas taking our spend to date to $124.3 million. In Boston, we incurred $197.3 million in total project cost during the quarter taking the total spend to date to $2 billion. The property remains on track to open in June of 2019 as Matt mentioned. We ended the quarter with total debt of $9.4 billion in total cash and investments of $2.2 billion including $1.2 billion in Wynn Macau. In December, we completed the amendment an extension of our Macau credit facility, both reducing amortization payments and extending the maturity of the facility. During the quarter, we returned approximately $237 million to shareholders through the payment of our recurring quarterly dividend and the repurchase of $156.7 million of stock. We repurchased just under 1.5 million shares at an average price of just under $106 per share and our quarterly dividend for the final quarter of 2018 is $0.75 per share, returning over $80 million to shareholders. Consistent with our sharp focus on capital returns, we will consider adjustments to our dividend in due course. With that, we'll now move to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you. Hey, Matt, you talked a little bit about, obviously, the volatility within the fourth quarter that you experienced and the $3.3 million to $3.7 million per day range in Macau that you'd referenced on the 3Q call. In light of the quarter and the overall I would say challenging Mainland China macro backdrop along with some of the company-specific constituent’s not necessarily providing rosy outlook for their China-based business, how does all this stuff aggregate for you guys in your outlook around the market moving forward?
Matt Maddox:
So we remain watching the situation with caution, but I think as all companies around the world are doing global growth is uncertain and where the trade wars end up is also uncertain. We continue to experience peaks and valleys in Macau, but as you can see from this quarter, we being at the premium end of the market, we can control what we can control. We can't control the certitudes of the market. And so I feel really good about where Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau are positioned in the market, but we are still waiting to see I think like the rest of the world, what the market and how the growth will play out globally.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you. And then Craig maybe this one's best for you if I could follow-up. Obviously, you talked a little bit about the buyback and clearly seeing equity levels as being attractive. Could you just talk little bit about the guardrails going forward in terms of what you're able to do from the buyback perspective given some of the ownership thresholds et cetera, as well as kind of how you're thinking about capital returns in the future between dividends and buybacks?
Craig Billings:
Sure. Thanks, Carlo. We reached an important inflection point with the opening of Boston from a free cash flow perspective. We're excited about that. It gives us a lot of opportunity to think about how we might return capital to shareholders. We've historically stated that we preferred dividends and the recurring valuation impact that we get from recurring dividends. But as you see in the quarter we're not afraid to return capital to shareholders in other ways. It really is dependent -- stock price dependent. We are -- we try to be opportunistic with respect to our buybacks. Again I think you saw that in the fourth quarter and so we'll watch out the equity trades and how the equity is valued over the course of the coming few quarters.
Carlo Santarelli:
That’s very helpful. Thank you both.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations on the results. Two questions that pertain to Macau. First with the respect to Matt when you talked about Wynn Macau and some of the redesign, and reinvestment at that property and some of the stuff coming online in 4Q. The disruption that you may be experiencing now, do you think that accelerates from here? And then maybe this is also -- Ian can chime in here in terms of the business that might be not able to be contained at Wynn Macau for disruption? Are you able to more easily ship that to Wynn Palace? And then I have a follow up?
Matt Maddox:
I'll start that Joe then I'll turn it over to Ian. I think that we, in the fourth quarter you could feel at Wynn Macau some of that disruption and I think that those volume levels, again all market dependent are in this range and sort of what we're expecting until we can re-launch the property at the end of the year. So I do know Ian if you want to follow up on that.
Ian Coughlan:
As we look at the construction program it's essentially over 12 months. We've already gone through three months of it. We do manage with a great team at Wynn Macau to contain the impact and any business damage, but there's clearly disruption and it will increase over the next six months. Areas will be inaccessible. There will be a reduction in certain table play. It does affect customer base. So, but we are hopeful that we can minimize the impact and run along from our fourth quarter and keep going until the fourth quarter of this year.
Matt Maddox:
And just as you see the first two quarters of 2018 were quite strong for Wynn Macau and a lot of that was bolstered by mid-tier junkets which has really been the segment in Macau that has declined by far the most. So…
Q –Joe Greff:
Great. And then also Matt can you just talk about sort of the length of collections from junkets and direct players. And I know your bad debt expense went up marginally, but can you just talk about what you're seeing on that front? That's all for me.
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So we talk about this a lot to try to decide if there's a trend that we're noticing. I was in Macau two weeks ago and met with Head of Suncity, Alvin, in particular to talk about what he think and collections are not an issue right now. Liquidity doesn't appear to be an issue. It's really more caution. So this is not the scenario that we saw in 2014 and 2015. That's not the case at all. We're not having any of our junket operations come to us and ask us for additional advance which is -- that's usually a clear indication of a credit bubble.
Q – Joe Greff:
So the caution is coming from the player not from the junket?
Matt Maddox:
Yes from both. I think everyone's learned a valuable lesson, in particular, the really large players that had a multibillion-dollar business. And so again the mid-tier junkets are the ones that we've seen decline, but the three major junket operators still appeared to be healthy.
Ian Coughlan:
There's also much tighter regulation off the junket market and the DIC and DICJ and the governments have done an excellent job in bringing very professional levels of management to the junkets. The exposure we had a number of years ago has dissipated.
Q – Joe Greff:
Thank you for the comments.
Operator:
Our next call comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks. So Ian we'll keep you on the hot seat here just on share in Macau. I know you fluctuate between 15% and 17% and that's right where you are at the lower end. You may be some of that just because of what's going on at Wynn Macau, but down sequentially and year-over-year. So, wondering if some of that is indeed attributable to Wynn Macau? Is that maybe a function of some of the new folks who have come in or maybe you could just talk about that and help us also understand kind of where it's coming from again Palace or The Peninsula VIP mass, so if you walk us through that, that would be great.
Ian Coughlan:
I think the share drop you're looking at is very Wynn Macau focused and it's linked to what we've referred in the previous call about this arrival of eight new junket rooms in the city and a shrinkage in mid-tier junkets generally and that has affected Wynn Macau. Wynn Palace continues to do very well on the share basis and Mass Market in both properties is doing very well. It's really just junkets VIP at Wynn Macau.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great. And then have you seen any change across-the-board and perhaps at your properties in terms of commission levels?
Ian Coughlan:
No.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. And then just switching gears to Las Vegas, Marilyn, it's nice to hear your voice again. Welcome back.
Marilyn Spiegel:
Thank you.
Felicia Hendrix:
I was wondering if you could just kind of address this two-parter. One is the RevPAR in the fourth quarter, which was up 13% I think is a lot higher than anyone expected. And I know there was an easy comp and the bigger portion of that was really driven by occupancy, but I was just wondering if there was anything extraordinary in the quarter that might have been driving that result, because there seems to be a bit of narrative out there that high-end operators like yourselves could be having difficulty raising rates from where they are now. And then I was also hoping you could address perhaps coming back and being new in looking at the property with fresh eyes some of the ideas you might have about Wynn Las Vegas?
Marilyn Spiegel:
Absolutely. I was delighted to see the fourth quarter RevPAR. The convention business was great and came in superstrong. And so that's really what you're seeing in the fourth quarter. For the first quarter and the rest of our year here, it's solid, but we had an outstanding fourth quarter. Coming back to the property, as you know I was here and then I had a prior competed against this property. There is no better set of assets. There is no strong growth, employee team, management team in all of gaming. And so, I'm delighted to lead this team. I think we have operating opportunities really with all of our assets. And specifically in casino, we can drive more from our casino block, get more off of our floor. So that's where I'll be focus going forward.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great. And then just to touch upon the question I had on rates and the narrative out there that there might be a feeling of where the higher levels are?
Craig Billings:
Yes. Hey Felicia, it's Craig. I'll take that. We've heard that as well. We continue to be comfortable overall with 2019 in rate across the different categories. There may be shifts between quarters. As an example, we have a large group that's moving from Q1 to Q2 and so you could see RevPAR fluctuations between those two quarters. But overall, we feel fine about 2019. The Q4 results which as Marilyn mentioned was underpinned by very strong group was also positively impacted by high casino room nights, high ADR room nights in the casino which as you know are generally comp rooms. So overall, we feel fine. I wouldn't extrapolate the numbers that we turned in Q4, but we're sanguine.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great. Thank you so much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Thanks. Just two fairly short ones. So the first one was just on Macau to follow-up. So to build of the market share dynamic, Matt, you sort of outlined a pretty extensive program of what you're up to at Wynn Macau and The Peninsula. Is that going to be enough do you think to re-grow market share? Is this just what you needed to do to defend where you're at right now just given like you said some of the shift in the mid-tier junkets and what's happening in the market overall?
Matt Maddox:
Yeah. Look, I think, we're going to defend our position on The Peninsula as the premium property. And knowing that the mid-tier junket business is not reliable, we're actually gravitating the business model away from that. And two, over the long-term the premium mass model, which Wynn Macau there's a very well and I think the -- our Encore casino is probably highest grossing mass tables in all of Macau or Cotai. And so what we want to do is replicate that experience and not rely on mid-tier junket operators. So, really repositioning that property for the future.
Shaun Kelley:
And as you do that, would it be fair to think that look revenue market share might be one thing on the VIP side, but obviously this could have an impact or a material impact on EBITDA and mix as it relates to profitability? Is that part of the trade here?
Matt Maddox:
Well, clearly premium mass business is more profitable than mid-tier junket business. So we're not just focus -- we don't generally focus on monthly gaming market share given what happens between VIP slots and mass. We're focused on where do we position ourselves in the Greater Bay region and area with 60 million people, a GDP of over $3 trillion a new bridge that's connected Macau to one of the busiest and nicest airports in the world. How do we position ourselves for the future, and how we do that as we focus on their premium customer, it's making the decisions about where they want to go and where they want to stay. And that's what we're doing at Wynn Macau.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, got it. And then last question would just be on Boston. I think everything there whether it's budget or time line for opening all seems to remain in the commentary very I think steady as she goes. Just from a high level and I appreciate there are some things that aren't wrapped there as it relates to the final procedures, but is there anything that can really derail this from an opening standpoint or is this -- as far as your concern we as we get into higher end phases and training everything is working towards the ultimate goal here and that's kind of hard to change that date.
Matt Maddox:
Well, we are clearly internally working towards opening June 23rd. We did I'm sure you saw the press settled here in the state of Nevada on the regulatory issues. Everything except the fine. There is no limit on our licenses. There are no current employees under review, and we're really looking forward to working with the Massachusetts regulators and the gaming commission to get through the process there. I want to commend the regulators for the extensive and thorough work that they've done in Massachusetts. They've taken this extremely seriously and I think that they've done a very good job and we're now just looking forward to a hearing being sent and for us to present our case.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Thank you very much.
Matt Maddox:
Operator, do we have any more questions? Operator
Thomas Allen:
A few questions on Macau. First, just on the bridge and the smoking ban. How do you think those are affecting the market and your shares specifically? Thanks…
Ian Coughlan:
Thomas, this is Ian. On the bridge it's only been open a few months, but there's already a distinct benefit for premium mass and VIP players. I'll just give you my own personal example. I was flying out to Vegas yesterday. I took a car from Wynn Palace and I was checking in with Cathay Pacific in an hour and two minutes from leaving Wynn Palace. That's remarkable. It's a huge boon for people that want to arrive in Hong Kong Airport. Hong Kong Airport has 3.5 times the number of daily flights from the PRC than Macau Airport does. So it opens that up for us and also just international travel in general. Long term that's a significant archery linked to what Matt was discussing about the Greater Bay area. So we feel it's a huge relevant piece of infrastructure that's going to benefit the city over the coming years. On the smoking ban, it's still early days but we're delighted because it levels the playing field. We've been at a disadvantage particularly in Cotai with these grandfathered in mass area tables that had smoking allowed. Now everybody is operating from the same template and we believe it's a big advantage for us in Cotai in particular. Too really early to judge if it's affected a speed of play etcetera, but right now we're happy to have the ban in place and everybody operating at the same rules.
Thomas Allen:
Very helpful and then just one follow-up, Ian. But to Wynn noted that your slot revenue was really strong at both properties this past quarter and I know you've thought a huge part of your revenue and it just stood out to us anything driving that?
Ian Coughlan:
So our slot business again being at the premium end of the market is very swayed by big players and the movement of big players is unpredictable just as Wynn Palace generated 50% more in revenue in December. A lot of that was due to the arrival of some big players that weren't expected, similarly in slots it gets affected like that. So it's really linked to more volume.
Thomas Allen:
Great. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Instinet. Your line is open.
Harry Curtis:
Hello and good afternoon. So either Matt or Craig, versus the third quarter, the thoughts that you gave on forward EBITDA per day. What are you thinking today? Is there any change to that? Do you modify it? What...
Matt Maddox:
Well, I think we don't want to be predicting what we're going to be doing in the first quarter. And in particular because in Macau as I said, it's inherently volatile and there are peaks and valleys. And so Chinese New Year is coming up and that I think is going to be the real test for the first quarter. As you can imagine you have lulls in January before Chinese New Year then we think Chinese New Year and it's going to be quite strong, but we really need to wait and gauge on what does it feel like right before? What does it feel like after to get a sense for it. Ian do you have any thoughts on that?
Ian Coughlan:
No that's it.
Harry Curtis:
Then following up on a comment you made about being a growth company which is accurate through the opening of Boston. But once Boston is open the growth pipeline runs out. And so give us some longer term thoughts on the strategic direction?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. I actually completely disagree that the growth pipeline runs out. We have $0.5 billion of capital that will be deployed in Las Vegas and opened in 2020 and that will have real impact on this property and the operating leverage property. In Wynn Macau that is another re-launch of a new property and that's about 2020. And we're designing what I think will be a real game changer for Macau with the Crystal Pavilion and with the new hotel rooms at Wynn Palace, that will be a large project and we think that it is going to solidify Wynn Palace as the place to go in the Greater Bay region. So if you look at the way that we're stair stepping these things, sure we'll be opening a $2.6 billion property wrapping in June, wrapping up a $500 million expansion in Las Vegas in 2020, wrapping up a $200 million expansion in Wynn Macau at the end of this year, but we'll be rolling right into what we're doing at Wynn Palace. We are also very active in new markets. While you don't count the chickens before they hatch I think we're well positioned in Japan. That's – we're working on that over the next – right now we have our designers here. Ian's here with me. We're focused on putting forward what we think will be without a doubt the most innovative and creative project and presentation in Japan. And I think we're well positioned there. That's further down the road, but we are going to continue to do those things and do them at the highest level.
Harry Curtis:
Fair enough. I guess what I was attempting to get to was that after you open – after you pay your final bills in Boston you become – you should become a significant I mean a really significant free cash flow generator. And you've talked about dividends and share repurchase, but it's the amount of free cash flow that I think investors need to focus on. Would you agree that even with these other projects the free cash flow generation in 2021 is multiples, multiples higher than you've see in the past?
Matt Maddox:
Well, you're exactly right. Once the bills are paid in Boston, the free cash flow generation for this company goes up significantly. Because these other large-scale projects I'm talking about definitely take a couple of years before the spend gets up and running or even longer. So you're exactly right. In 2021 and then into 2022 the free cash flow profile changes quite significantly there. Craig, do you have any thoughts – ?
Craig Billings:
No. I think that's right. And as we talked about Harry, we will look at all the routes to make sure that we have portion the appropriate amount of that free cash flow to shareholders.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. And then just real quick, I don't know if it's an observation or question. But Phil Satre having joined the board is a significant positive given his years in the industry and respect that he's had. What is his role going to be? Will you try him out on his golf? Because he really has – he could be adding quite a bit.
Matt Maddox:
I talk to Phil probably three or four times a week he is a great resource. I have a really good relationship with him. I don't think he is interested in getting back on the earnings conference calls at Wall Street. He's running boards. He is the Chairman of the Nordstrom Board before stepping down. He's been on a number of boards. So he's really as the Chairman of our Board focused on being a board member and not in golf.
Harry Curtis:
He is a wise man obviously.
Matt Maddox:
He is.
Harry Curtis:
Thank you.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Thanks. Just a couple of quick follow-ups. I guess first on Las Vegas. I know you don't give explicit guidance, but as we look at 2019, can you just give a sense for some of the puts and takes to think about the market. Are you seeing changes in trends among the international versus domestic leisure customer base or even the convention customer amidst the greater market volatility? Thanks.
Craig Billings:
Hey it's Craig. So, yes, great question. So, if you look at 2019 and I think we were pretty explicit with some of the sell-side analyst subsequent to the Q3 call to try to help frame up Las Vegas. But just to reiterate some of that. If you look at our first quarter of 2018, it was I think a record first quarter for the property ever. So, we're --
Matt Maddox:
It was. Yes.
Craig Billings:
We're going to have a tough comp frankly in Q1 of 2019. You probably should look back to Q1 of 2017 to get a better sense to where the property might perform and recognize that we're in a slightly different cost environment now due to some Department of Labor regulations that we talked about an a prior call. Beyond that we're really looking at the overall baccarat volumes, which as we talked about on the Q3 call, tend to be very global. And so much of the circumspection that we take towards the overall Chinese macro-economy extends to Las Vegas as well. And so we didn't really need to wait to see how Chinese New Year plays out to determine what we think about that in the year as well. Matt, do you have any?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure. I think as I said in my opening remarks, Las Vegas is a marketer's market. I think we will be focused on how are we going to increase our share in casino revenue and how we're going to drive our rate. We have structural -- new construction programs that are coming in to help us drive rate. That will start in 2020, but we're focused right now every day on how are we're going to gain share on the casino side, in particular, the domestic side, and grow our baccarat business because it's worth looking in our global profile. We will now have three regions that our high-end customers will want to visit. They will want to go to Boston. There are a lot of direct flights from Asia straight to Boston. They will want to come to Las Vegas. And so we're all working on how are we going to create the Wynn experience globally so that we can continue to take share from our competitors.
Stephen Grambling:
That's helpful. Then maybe turning to Macau real quick. There has been a lot of questions about the impact of the renovations. Would it be possible to just give a sense for how many maybe nights we're out of service as we think about those coming back may be online even before thinking about incremental spend from customers?
Ian Coughlan:
So, this is Ian. On the 1,004 keys, we'll add our peak at 100 rooms in Encore out of order and that will transpire over a period of four to five months.
Stephen Grambling:
Great. Thank you so much. Best of luck this year.
Craig Billings:
Thank you.
Operator:
Our next call comes from Anil Daswani. Your line is open.
Anil Daswani:
Hi, good morning guys. Ian another one for you. Could you please give us an idea of what the comp ratios look like at both Wynn Macau as well as Wynn Palace? And how close are we to getting to your targets now on Wynn Palace in the longer term?
Ian Coughlan:
So, Downton Macau has been pretty consistent. About 95% of the rooms go to active casino customers. At Wynn Palace, we've been pulling it up from 47% 18 months ago up to 81% for the fourth quarter. I mentioned at a previous call, we could always go all the way to 100% and that would be ideal but we're doing two things. We're working at driving the percentage, but more importantly behind the scenes we're looking at providing a better quality of customer. We're doing that by booking customers in advance. Macau is a hard market for people walking in on the day and taking rooms and people being comped on the floor. We like the book more of that in advance. So the ADT has come up as well. So we're seeing the benefit of that you can see it in the Palace numbers.
Anil Daswani:
And as a bit of a follow-up, I see you're renovating and trying to create a whole new premium mass experience on The Peninsula. Do you anticipate that you could take market share from some of your smoking friendly competitors in that neighborhood? Is that what this is all targeted by?
Ian Coughlan:
So it's a 2020 beyond story. This year is the year of renovation. What I think is under looked is the Wynn Club side of the Wynn Tower at Wynn Macau actually contains all of our suites. So geographically, we're creating a premium mass area directly onto those suites with new F&B additions, two new entry points from the boardwalk, walkway between Lisboa and MGM. So we see that, firing up that side of the property. So we definitely feel we will take a much higher percentage of premium mass business downtown as markets recover. So this is a long-term fund for the future.
Matt Maddox:
So Cotai continues to take share from The Peninsula, but The Peninsula is still an enormous market. And what we're going to do is, we're going to continue to focus to take share on The Peninsula. You're exactly right. Some of our competitors had some premium mass smoking rooms that are now at a level playing field. We are as focused on The Peninsula as we are at Wynn Palace because it is a very large market and we think that we can continue to get ahead of our competitors.
Anil Daswani:
Thank you, guys. Operator
Robin Farley:
Great, thanks. Obviously a lot of the big issues talked about already. I wonder if you could update -- on the last call you talked about timing for a new Las Vegas resort that maybe you'll be under construction by next year. So I just wonder if you could update us kind of budget and timing of that?
Craig Billings:
Yes – no, I can't. And so what I said on the last call was that these projects typically take about five years. There's a couple of years of design and development and maybe I should have said something different. It's a couple of years of design. So I think we are a couple of years away from actually being able to answer what that project and budget will look like. We are thinking about what could come next and what could be different because the more rooms, more casino, more slots and more retail is not going to cut it. So that is – it’s a very early stages and we're really lucky to have 38 acres on The Strip.
Ian Coughlan:
But it doesn't really -- conversation at this point rather it's not something to put into your mind.
Robin Farley:
So you're simply -- no groundbreaking for 2020 there? Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. And then just in the past times premium mass levels have been sometimes tied to what's going on with the VIP business just because it may be groups traveling with VIP players. How are you seeing that now? You mentioned that December you had very strong premium mass business driven by a small number of players. But in general what are you seeing with premium mass trends relative to the kind of flattish VIP drop?
A – Ian Coughlan:
So traditionally you're correct. The premium mass segment was fed quite strongly by junket players and VIP players. Over the last 24 months, premium mass has become much stronger by the conversion of mid-tier mass players into premium mass player. So it's less of an issue. You can particularly see that with junket world shrinking, more competition and premium mass continues to grow.
Q – Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you.
A – Matt Maddox:
Operator, was that the last question?
Operator:
That was the last question.
Matt Maddox:
Okay. Thank you everyone for joining today. We look forward to speaking with you soon.
Operator:
Thank you. That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.
Analysts:
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc. Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC Cameron McKnight - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2018 Earnings Call. All participants are on listen-only until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir you may begin.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox; and Maurice Wooden. Also in the line are Ian Coughlan, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks, Craig, and welcome everyone. Before we get started today talking about the quarter, I want to take a few minutes and just lay out why we are very excited about the future of Wynn Resorts in the next two to three years. First, I'd like to start in Boston. We were there recently. I was there recently. And we have 200 people on staff right now and we're about to hire 4,000 more and open a $2.6 billion integrated resort in the heart of the Boston metroplex in less than eight months. And some of the major issues that we're dealing with as a management team are how are we going to control the crowd and how are we going to control the traffic to make sure that the five-star experience that people expect from Encore Boston Harbor will be delivered. It's a property that's about to open. It will provide step function growth in EBITDA. We're really excited about it and we hope all of you will be able to join us in eight months for the opening of that property. Moving to Macau, first, I'd like to congratulate the government of Macau for how the typhoon was handled this summer. Not only were they very well prepared, but in the aftermath and the cleanup, it was flawless. We as a company, our 13,000 employees and I know the entire community greatly appreciate it. And when we take a look back at what Macau has wanted to accomplish, since 2002, when it brought in the new operators, Wynn was brought in as the innovator, as a progressive company. It's not going to compete with replitecture (02:41) or copying other people, but it's going to be new and interesting, and that's what we've delivered. $7 billion worth of investment there since we've started. We have choreographed dancing fountains in front of both of our hotels. We have a prosperity tree that has been a tourist attraction coming out of the ground with a chandelier falling from the ceiling that everyone in Macau and tourists constantly go to see. And it's one of the most photo-ed opportunities in Macau. And those innovations are part of the DNA of this company. It's why we were chosen and it's what we are going to continue to do. As we talked about this year, we've been working on how are we going to grow in Macau and continue to innovate because we believe it is the best place on the planet to invest in the integrated resort business. We have a seven-acre parcel next to Wynn Palace. It's right by the new Lisboa project and we've been working very hard on what could come next and what we have so far is a 1.5 million square foot facility that we think will be a must-see in Macau. The podium level which we're calling the Crystal Pavilion is a large glass structure that's going to house lots of non-gaming features. In fact, some of the public entertainment attractions will be all around the Crystal Pavilion. We have a 60-foot gongs fire hanging in the center of it with acrobats on cables going up and down lightly playing the gongs. As you traverse through the pavilion, you will run into a theater. And this theater is really going to be the first of its kind. We got the idea from it actually when we were at the Vatican. The Vatican launched a Michelangelo program with a theater. It took an old theater 1,500-feet theater and created an immersive experience with screens on the walls and on the ceiling. So, the audience had a 270-degree experience, including live entertainment on the stage. It's been quite successful. So, we thought if we take that idea and custom build it in this area with a great 600-feet theater and make it fully immersive that that experience will be like no other on the planet. We actually have three shows that we're working on right now and these won't be long 1.5 hours show, they'll be more like 45-minute vignettes playing throughout the day and we think that everybody's going to want to come and experience this immersive theater. Now connected to the Crystal Pavilion, we know one thing for certain. Wynn Palace needs more hotel rooms. In order to get Wynn Palace to go from where it is today and zoom over $1 billion in EBITDA, we need 3,000 hotel rooms. So, on the seven-acre site where we currently contemplated and designed a 671 room all-suite hotel connected to the Crystal Pavilion with a bridge going over to the Lisboa Palace. In addition, on the north four-acre parcel, we're working on a 700-room all-suite hotel that we'll connect into the north side of Wynn Palace, which will take that property from 1,700 hotel rooms to over 3,000, which is really where we need it to be. We're very excited about the future of Macau. We have a lot of great things. We plan on presenting this concept in the next couple of months, working through 2019 on the permitting, finalizing the design, getting everything together and beginning construction in 2020. Moving to Las Vegas, in Las Vegas, we have the marquee asset on the Strip and one of the things that we decided was that we really needed to take what we have here and add some new things, freshen it up. So in the next three days actually, we're opening Wynn Plaza. Cipriani's will be opening, a first in Las Vegas. Urth Caffé will be opening, a first in Las Vegas. SoulCycle will be opening this weekend, a first in Las Vegas, along with many other retailers. It's a retail and lifestyle complex that we think will be very unique. We've also been working on two new restaurant concepts that we'll be implementing in 2019. And these concepts are going to be higher energy than what we have right now. It's really for the customer. If they want to go to dinner, but they're not quite wanting to go to the nightclub after, or to bed, they want to keep hanging out. So we have some great concepts that we're working on now for Las Vegas in 2019. So we'll have five new restaurants, over 50,000 square feet of additional retail that we'll be opening. And then at the end of 2019, at the beginning of January – in January 2020, we'll be opening a 400,000 square foot convention center here. It's 200,000 square foot of net rentable space coming basically in 12 months. We believe that that convention center will add somewhere between 4 to 6 points of occupancy to this hotel, which will allow us to really drive rate in those peak times, because we will be in the low to mid-90s in occupancy over the full 365 days. So we have a lot going on in Las Vegas from new restaurants, new retail and additional – a convention center coming on board, all in the next 12 to 18 months. But as for the rest of the development here in Las Vegas, in early 2016, we held an Analyst Day and we announced a project called Paradise Park. That project was over $3 billion, looking at it today with construction costs, and it included the convention center that we are building right now. From April 2016 to today, we always struggled with Phase 2 of Paradise Park. How are we going to make a room tower in a town with a lot of rooms, pencil (09:10), along with a lagoon, because we weren't really interested in building a large public swimming pool for the Las Vegas Strip. So we just decided, let's go with Phase 1. We know the convention center is going to work. It's what Wynn Las Vegas needs. And let's continue to grind on Phase 2, the rest of this golf course development. Well, earlier this year, our optionality in Las Vegas changed when we purchased 38 acres of land on the Strip, a far superior site to the off-Strip location of the golf course. So what we've done is we actually went back and reengaged Tom Fazio, who was the original designer of our golf course, to come in and take a look at the couple holes that were disrupted by this 400,000 square foot convention center. And see if we can design a new 18-hole golf course connected to Wynn and Encore. And have that back in action before our convention center opens. The design of that is complete. The work has commenced. And the golf course will be restored and back in action by this time next year. It's a great amenity for the resort. We actually – not only did we notice we lost 16,000 rounds of golf out there, 70% of which were cash, but we lost probably $10 million to $15 million worth of domestic casino business. People coming in for golf trips that have decided to go elsewhere. So now that we have the 38 acres of land on the Strip to develop the next great thing for Las Vegas, we can put our golf course back in as an amenity for the 10 million square feet and the 4,700 rooms that we have here. For the 38 acres of land, we are just beginning the design and development of that. It takes at least two years to get through properly what a new integrated resort on the Las Vegas Strip that's going to be innovative and progressive and drive new customers to this location, which I know that we can do. But it's going to take two years of design and development for that project. And we will be commencing that in 2019, the design and development program. So our future is really bright over the next three years from opening Boston in June of next year to all of the things we have going on at Wynn Las Vegas right now. which we're going to capitalize on the marquee asset that exists today. The future opportunity in Macau that we're working on and hoping to be in the ground in 2020. And the 38 acres of land here in Las Vegas. So our management team in Macau, in Boston, and in Las Vegas are very excited about everything that we have to do over the next three to five years. Turning to the quarter, Macau results were strong. We were happy with $409 million of EBITDA. However, we did have about $20 million of high hold in that period. But even at $390 million, it was a good quarter. And in the third quarter, $390 million, we were happy with it. But what we've seen recently has been more murky. So October Golden Week, as everyone has reported, quite strong. We're really happy with it. We had doubled the average EBITDA that we would get during that week. But since Golden Week, we've noticed that during the midweek, it's been quite choppy and the weekends have been sporadic. We can have one big weekend, maybe one or two days are big as opposed to all three. And so what we've seen post-Golden Week has been a slowdown. And we've seen it, in particular, in the premium end of the business, premium mass, premium slots, and VIP, and that is where the vast majority of our EBITDA comes from. So, what we've always focused on in our business is the premium end and we always will, because in Macau while that will be the first to retract in these times, it's also the first to expand as you come out of these slowdowns. So what we're experiencing right now, I think that the fourth quarter will end up in the neighborhood of $3.3 million a day to roughly $3.7 million a day, really just watching day-by-day and looking forward in the next 90 days as to liquidity, customers, who is coming and what we're seeing. We do not anticipate losing share in our segments, but we do think that the premium end of the market is feeling softer and that's our expectation for the fourth quarter. Moving to Las Vegas, $95 million of EBITDA, not acceptable, we had $10 million on hold related, so even at $105 million of EBITDA, that's the normalized EBITDA for where we would have come out. And really the story in Las Vegas was all about baccarat. So all of our segments on the hotel front were in line with our expectations except casino. We were down about 11,000 room nights over last year and 8,500 of those came in the casino. And the casino block was off approximately $6 million in revenue, which makes up almost all of the miss compared to last year. So, we know that a few of the players who bounce around town actually ended up at one of our competitors. And were beaten quite quickly and I think if you look at the Strip and look at an outlier, you can probably see who that was. That's temporary. That's just the nature of the baccarat business. I don't anticipate us losing any share. In fact, we'll continue to gain share. However, as we've seen in the past, whether it was in 2003 with SARS and what happened at the VIP market and the recession in 2008 and 2009, in 2014, when we saw the premium in VIP market started to slow down globally, that always impacted Las Vegas as well. So until there's more clarity around what's going on in Asia in the premium business, we are remaining cautious on the baccarat market for Las Vegas going forward. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Craig Billings to provide some more color on the quarter.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you, Matt. As noted in our release, our Macau operations delivered $409.1 million of adjusted property EBITDA on $1.3 billion of operating revenues on the back of growth in VIP and mass with mass table win a particular highlight increasing 36% year-over-year. In fact, over 70% of our departmental EBITDA in the quarter was generated in mass, slots and non-gaming. We continue to diversify our business in Macau. While Macau's operations for the quarter were impacted by September's typhoon-related closure, the estimated EBITDA impact to the closure was offset by approximately $11 million of EBITDA in the quarter from the receipt of business interruption insurance proceeds related to 2017's Typhoon Hato. Our results in Macau were also positively impacted by VIP hold as Matt mentioned primarily at Wynn Palace increasing EBITDA from our Macau operations by approximately $20 million from a normalized level. Bad debt in Macau was $2.8 million in the quarter compared to a $600,000 credit in the prior year. Our Las Vegas operations delivered $95.3 million of adjusted property EBITDA in the quarter on net revenues of $398.9 million. Las Vegas held low during the quarter, negatively impacting EBITDA by almost $10 million. As the quarter develops, the property was increasingly impacted by market-wide declines in table revenues, which also negatively impacted ADR, RevPAR, and hotel revenues with a loss of higher ADR casino nights in the room base as Matt mentioned. In addition, weather events also negatively impacted our nightclubs driving year-over-year declines in food and beverage revenues. In Boston, we incurred $193.3 million in total project cost during the quarter, taking the total spend to-date to $1.83 billion. The property really looks great and we remain on track to open in June of 2019. We ended the quarter with total debt of $8.9 billion and total cash and investments of $1.9 billion, including $1.4 billion at Wynn Macau. Subsequent to quarter end, Wynn Resorts Limited issued $500 million of term debt with the net proceeds to be used for general corporate purposes, CapEx and potential share repurchase. Consistent with our announcement earlier in the year, our quarterly dividend is $0.75 per share returning over $81.5 million to the shareholders for the quarter. In light of the revised CapEx planning that Matt talked about, we anticipate generating meaningful cash flow after the opening of Encore Boston Harbor. We look forward to continuing to prudently reinvest in our business, while returning excess capital to shareholders. With that, we will now move to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you. We'll now begin the question-and-answer session. Our first question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Good afternoon everybody. Matt, just with respect to your comments about what you're seeing in Macau here since Golden Week, I mean we could probably surmise some of these comments. But what are you hearing from some of your players and what are you hearing from some of the junket operators as the drivers? And maybe this is sort of a quixotic question, but are some of the reasons for this murkiness or choppiness, do you think they're temporary? Or do you think they are somewhat permanent?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure, Joe. So what I'd start with is, this does not feel like 2014. There's not a large credit bubble looming. As an example, we're generating roughly $120 billion of turnover annually between our two properties, which is the same that we were generating back in 2013 with one property. But the advances that we're making to our junket operators are less than half today that they were then. So in talking to the junket operators, I was there recently, and none of them feel like this is the 2014 credit bubble that's going to pop. It really feels more macro. So what I would say to that is the demand for our product and for Macau in China is insatiable. We are very big believers in the long term in Macau. And if there's a pullback for three months, six months, nine months, not sure what it is, We've been through these. But we note that the underlying demand for this business is very strong. So again, I think pullback is definitely temporary. The growth of Macau is up and to the right. And we're well positioned to take advantage of that over the next five years.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Okay, great. And then just to maybe understand in this environment the operating expense structure. Obviously when we look at your historical results, we can see what's variable expenses, between gaming, taxes, and say junket commission. With that other sort of third bucket of OpEx, the non-gaming tax, the non-gaming commission, how much flex is there if revenues are flat or trending downwardly?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Joe, I wouldn't assume that many operators could be going on an expense diet, given the current structure of labor, which is going to be continually increasing and the commissions and taxes.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Great, that's helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Matt, when you think about the fourth quarter, and obviously with the results that you had in the third quarter and some of the commentary that you made in the post-Golden Week. Golden Week generally tends to be a period where the wings of it, the short – the period before and after could be a little bit softer. When you're referencing the $3.3 million to $3.7 million of property level, and I'm assuming that was the property level EBITDAR per day, is a good range for the fourth quarter. Is that just more or less extrapolating what you're seeing kind of month-to-date with the tail post-Golden Week kind of run out through the end of the year? Or is there something else that's kind of influencing how you're kind of getting to that range?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yeah, sure, Carlo. So just to be clear, the $3.3 million to $3.7 million is for the full fourth quarter, including Golden Week. And as we said, as I said earlier, Golden Week was quite strong. But what we're experiencing midweek and weekend, midweek has been soft and weekends have been sporadic. So I don't want to get into forecasting what 2019 is going to look like. I think that's a market call. We feel very comfortable with our position. But that's what we're anticipating for the fourth quarter.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Okay. And, I guess, just to follow-up on that then, is some of the – is the sporadic nature that you mentioned, is that kind of across the board? Are you seeing that from VIP right through to your lower levels of mass? Or is that just more of a VIP and maybe bleeding into premium mass?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It's VIP and premium business. The grind business actually continues to grow. So we are seeing our main floor business doing well. And the premium business, it will grow. And that is where you always want to invest in this industry. But we're seeing a little bit of a contraction right now.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Understood. And then just if I could, one follow-up. As you talked about the two towers on the wings of Wynn Palace. Could you kind of give us a ballpark estimate for how you're thinking about what CapEx would look like for the entirety of what you're doing there over the next several years acknowledging this is going to be a multi-year process?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It's really too early. We'll be providing more detailed CapEx estimates in 2019. But the one certainty is Wynn Palace needs more hotel rooms. On the weekends we can't accommodate all the customers that we need and we need to find a way to get to 3000 hotel rooms and create what will be the tourist destination in Macau with our Crystal Pavilion.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Understood. Thanks Matt.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Hi, thanks a lot. Matt and Ian too, I know – in this kind of environment, I know you're not going to get promotional to stimulate demand because that's never been how you guys operate, but is there a concern that the market will as everyone starts to fight or compete for lower volumes of demand?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Ian, I'll let you take that one.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Sure. In general, the competitors have been very measured about periods of downturns, either liquidity driven, policy driven. So we don't get that kneejerk reaction we used to see six or seven years ago. Certainly there's been a lot of stimulation in the junket market. You had seven new junket rooms open and more on the horizon over the next 12 months particularly in Cotai and that does tend to drive bigger profit share for the junkets. It makes it hypercompetitive. It's not a game we play. We look at the long term, but nothing on the mass side at this moment and other than some of the new junket rooms that have opened that have increased their commissions, we haven't seen anything to be too concerned about.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
And Ian, as you're trying to kind of spread a bit of a lower base among the two properties, can you just talk about how that strategy might look in a bit of a slower period?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
We'll just continue to operate the way we've always operated. We'll try quality and leverage having the best product and service in the marketplace. We've been in the rodeo for 12 years. We go through these sporadic periods of volatility. And then we see extreme bursts of growth. So that's been Macau for 12 years. We're not going to over steer one direction or the other. It's hard to look the whole way through 2019. I think what's being overlooked here is a good Golden Week has colored the two weeks post Typhoon Mangkhut when business fell off considerably. And that was a bellwether for the fourth quarter in my opinion. And so we're seeing a lot of softness during the week and some reasonable weekends we've had four weeks post-Golden Week now to look at the business and it is soft.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Thank you. And by the way thanks everyone for all this transparency, I think it's very helpful. Craig, just switching gears, you guys – you recently closed on a new $500 million term loan and the language in that 8-K lists repurchases of common stock as one of the uses of net proceeds from the capital raise.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It does.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Yeah. And so in your prior call you indicated that dividends would be the preferred way to return cash, but you also said that in the case the stock got extremely cheap, you would hoover it up. So, given everything that's going on, given what's happened with your stock since the last quarter and probably what's going to happen now, I'm just wondering if you're pulling your vacuum out.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. Yes it does. We did say that. We have been pretty explicit about our capital return policies we do. We have a stated preference for dividend and I did say that if the stock got extremely cheap we would buy it. When outlandish market narratives or extreme market dislocation caused the stock to be really where we don't think it should be, then we'll back it with our own purchases.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. And just to make sure I'm right, you still have $1 billion on your authorization?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We do have $1 billion authorization, right.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Okay, great. Okay, thank you.
Operator:
And next we'll go to Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Matt you've already I think I alluded to this in some of your prepared remarks and also in the answer to Joe's question a little bit, but could you just kind of characterize the customer behavior in terms of just breaking it down a little bit by spend per visit and number of visits? It seems like this is largely just a kind of a contraction of confidence by the consumer but could you just help us think about the consumer behavior a little bit more since you've seen this soft patch?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yeah. I think you nailed it. The contraction of confidence is the way to look at it. When we look at our daily visitation to Wynn Palace, for example, it's roughly 20,000 people a day right now in line with where it's been in the past. So we're not seeing a large fall off in visitation or the place feels really busy. It's really in the premium segment where there's been a slight contraction in confidence. And as everyone that's been following this space for more than 10 years know, it's temporary, but it takes a little time to get that confidence back.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
And then I think you mentioned this as well, but just to clarify, I think you said, you sort of expect your market share to remain consistent. Is that – was that the correct interpretation there, so this is really much more of a macro concern than what you're kind of seeing or a market overall concern than anything specific to your customers?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes. I mean, we've been fairly consistent between 15% and 17% market share. As you witnessed in the second quarter we were a little lower because one of our competitors downtown opened a new junket room and flooded it with liquidity, and we lost some customers and it was very temporary. That could happen in a quarter in 2019 when some of our competitors are opening new junket rooms. But over a 12-month period we do not anticipate that we will lose any market share.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Instinet Nomura. Your line is open.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
Hello, everyone. Matt, you made some comments about land on the Strip and how that was a preferential spot to develop. Can you give us a sense of what your timing is on that anytime soon?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
No. I think I said in my opening statement that we're just beginning the design development of that, Harry. And it takes two years to really properly think through what is going to be the next great thing for Las Vegas. We're just launching that process. And we'll be doing it through 2019 and 2020 to really determine what's going to be the next great thing for this market.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
The reason I ask is because you also comment that you're on the cusp, once you open Boston, of generating some significant free cash flow. And it would seem to me, and I don't know where the stock is going to be in six months or 12 months or 18 months. But what sort of returns on invested capital are you going to need to see investing in the Strip versus your stock?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. Harry, I understand the question. Again, we're investing in Wynn Las Vegas right now. We have new restaurants opening, a new convention center opening, the golf course will be reopening. And you're right on the free cash flow point. Once Boston opens in eight months, large scale capital deployment will not be occurring until a couple of years later, just because of the construction cycle. So we're in the full design and development mode for what we want to build in Macau. And we're at the beginning of that process here in Las Vegas.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
Thank you. And then switching to Macau. It looked to me like you gained share in volume in the third quarter on the VIP side. But you lost it in mass, which was the – I mean it was the inverse of what I would have expected. Can you give us a sense of why that happened? And is that continuing as we look into the fourth quarter?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Harry, our overall market share, including slots, was over 17%. 17.4%. So in looking at the various segments, we were not losing share.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
Well, okay. The reason that it's important to me anyway is because if you're – at least during the third quarter you gained share in VIP with a lower margin, but you lost share in mass, that might that have an impact on our EBITDA margins going forward?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
No, Harry. Like we said in the prepared remarks, our mass business is doing quite well. Matt referenced the state of the premium consumer, post Golden Week, not only in his prepared remarks, but in all of the Q&A. We anticipate holding margin in the near term as really the increase in the proportion of mass offsets any operating deleverage that may come from lower volumes on the premium side.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
All right. Well, let me follow-up in a little while with you guys. Thanks.
Operator:
And next, we'll go to Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
Hey, thanks. I guess first off on Las Vegas. I guess what's the customer overlap in your Las Vegas Baccarat business with Macau? Is there any change in behavior from those that do overlap?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
As I mentioned in my opening statement, that what we've seen in the past is when there's a slowdown in the premium market globally, or in Asia in particular, Macau and you're seeing it somewhat in Singapore, that the Baccarat market in Las Vegas also experiences somewhat of a slowdown.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
And then I guess as you look out for Vegas into 2019, I mean any initial reads on how you're thinking about how the year is shaping up based on what you're seeing? Thanks.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. No problem. So on the group side, we're fine when we look out to 2019. Matt alluded to the softness in Q3 on the Baccarat side. And we're watching that day-by-day. As he just said, it's a global question. And so could that impact Q4 and then into 2019? Certainly, it could. So a little too early to talk about anything beyond that.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yeah. Our group business is at 80% booked right now, revenue is at about 85% booked for next year. So group feels fine.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
Great. Thanks. I'll jump back in the queue.
Operator:
Our last question comes from Cameron McKnight with Credit Suisse. Your line is open.
Cameron McKnight - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC:
Good afternoon. Thanks very much.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Hi, Cameron.
Cameron McKnight - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC:
So, Matt, in terms of the development of the 38 acres on the Strip, I mean given the difficulty that the Strip saw in the third quarter, do you think that the Strip can absorb additional hard supply here?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So, Cameron we don't plan our business which grows in five-year increments with these properties based on one quarter. So what we're doing is we're starting the design development of the 38 acres which will take 24 months to get through what it is that we think is going to grow this market. So we're going to be staring at 2021 in terms of here's a new project that we're really excited about and should we move forward. The best days for Las Vegas are ahead of it. We have the Raiders coming here. We have a massive expansion of our convention facility. There's no other place on the planet where you can have 150,000 hotel rooms within three miles to host what will be the biggest events on the planet. So we are long-term believers in Las Vegas, and we're going to work over the next two years to determine what it's going to take to move the needle.
Cameron McKnight - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC:
Perfect. Thanks. And then a follow-up if I could. In terms of the $3.3 million to $3.7 million of EBITDA per day in the fourth quarter, could you give us a sense of, is that roughly the level that business is tracked at post-Golden Week? And can you give us a sense of the drop off that you're seeing from Golden Week to post-Golden Week?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Hey, Cameron, it's Craig. As Matt mentioned earlier that's inclusive of Golden Week, and as we indicated we had a pretty strong Golden Week. So Golden Week does increase that number. We're not going to provide anything beyond the $3.3 million to $3.7 million.
Cameron McKnight - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC:
Okay. Understood. Thanks very much.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you. And I'll turn it back over to our hosts for final remarks.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you for joining us today. And have a great day.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks. Bye.
Operator:
Thank you. That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd. Maurice Wooden - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Linda Chen - Wynn Resorts Ltd.
Analysts:
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc. Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC David Katz - Jefferies LLC Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Anil J. Daswani - Citigroup Global Markets Asia Ltd.
Operator:
Welcome, and thank you for standing by, to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2018 Earnings Call. This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the line over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox and Maurice Wooden. Also, on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, Ciaran Carruthers, Frederic Luvisutto, and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks, Craig. Good afternoon, and thanks for joining us today. The numbers are out, so I'd first like to address Macau. The April to June period in Macau is typically the weakest quarter of the year due to seasonality and was actually compounded this year by the World Cup. But let's put everything in perspective. The market increased 17% year-over-year with double-digit growth in both mass and VIP win, supported by a 7.5% increase in year-over-year growth in visitation. Macau's long-term fundamentals remain strong, and we will continue to lead in Macau. Looking at the individual property results. We continue to see growth in our mass business at Wynn Palace with mass drop up sequentially from Q1. In fact, had the Palace held consistent with Q1, mass revenue would've been almost $30 million higher and our mass market share would've increased approximately 80 basis points to almost 9%. Wynn Palace's VIP revenue were 5.1% sequentially and turnover was up 20% year-over-year. I believe that Wynn Palace will continue to take market share in both mass and VIP. In fact, so confident, I've assembled a team of some of the most creative people on the planet and we're in full swing planning our entertainment-focused development on the adjacent seven-acre parcel that sits between the new Lisboa and Wynn Palace. The entertainment center will have various whimsical, immersive features taking into account what we've learned from our Prosperity Tree in Macau in the Lake of Dreams here in Las Vegas and amplifying it. The people responsible for those projects in the past – Michael Curry, one of the top theatrical designers in the world; Kenny Ortega, one of the most well-known choreographers in the world; and Patrick Woodroffe, possibly the best lighting director in the world – are responsible and working with us to help develop this concept. The project is going to have indoor gardens, it's going to have waterfalls, we're working on a theater concept and a new food hall that's going to focus on seafood, the best seafood that anyone can find in that region and it will be a culinary destination for Macau. We know that our premium customers like these attractions. We're really excited to continue to develop this. And we plan on completing the proposal in the fourth quarter to show to the Macau government, and we're excited about adding world renowned gaming attractions to Macau. Now, turning to downtown. Our mass table drop grew 21% year-over-year, of a tough comp in 2017. However, during the second half of the quarter, Wynn Macau experienced a difficult VIP environment driven by lower volumes in several of our junket operators. One of the main reasons – principal reasons is that our competitors neglected the VIP market during the downturn and many of them got back into the game in the last six months with new rooms and more credit, creating incremental competition for VIP. We expect this new supply will be absorbed as in the past. And I should note, we went through an extensive analysis of the property's operations. We reviewed the service levels, had deep discussions with our junket partners, and there is not a particular issue that caused this temporary decline; it was really just short-term competition in the VIP market. We are not going to compete on price by raising commissions or extending additional credit for short-term revenue gains. We compete by having the best product and service in the market. And with the upcoming reinvestment in Wynn Macau, renovating all the Encore rooms for the first time since it opened over eight years ago. We're building two new restaurants in our original casino, adding 8,000 square feet of additional retail space which, by the way, still remains some of the world's best and strongest producing sales per square foot anywhere to be found. And we're reconfiguring the West Casino, all in the very near future. So the best years for Wynn Macau are yet to come. Now, looking at July, that we've gotten out of this second quarter period. We were actually experiencing much better trends in July with our year-over-year and monthly sequential growth up over 20%, significantly outperforming the market. Our overall operation in Macau is making approximately $4.3 million in EBITDA per day with normal hold. We have experienced broad-based strength in both mass and VIP at both of our properties in Macau in July. Macau remains at the top of our list for capital investment, and we are honored to have the privilege of doing business there. Moving to Las Vegas. We generated $124 million of property EBITDA in the quarter. Strength in the group segment, as everyone knows, was evidenced by our Q2 RevPAR growth which also helped drive double-digit growth in catering and banquets, driving our food and beverage. Our Las Vegas customer and overall demand remained stable. Our third quarter, looking at Las Vegas, will be a challenge. When we look at the third quarter, we think it'll be flat with last year and the reasons are not necessarily demand-driven, but also event-driven. Last August, we had the McGregor fight here in Las Vegas. It was an enormous boost to the city and to the room rates and to occupancy. Also, the holiday, Yom Kippur, is in the third quarter this year. So just looking at the third quarter, I believe it's more event-driven than it is an indication because our fourth quarter actually looks pretty strong. We're seeing fourth quarter right now trending to be up over 4% compared to the last year, and we think that our overall RevPAR for the year in Las Vegas is going to grow by 3% to 4%. Also in Las Vegas, we're in full construction as steel is being erected on our 400,000 square feet of additional group and meeting space. We expect to open that in the first quarter of 2020. We've also been working on the master plan for the remaining acreage of the golf course. As discussed last quarter, I changed this project significantly from a $3 billion-plus investment with a theme park focus to a more luxury resort experience. It's early in the design stage, and we will continue to work on the master plan for the rest of the year defining and refining the program. We still need to develop cost estimates once our design program is complete to ensure this project will add significant value for our shareholders. Moving on to Massachusetts. We're actually now less than a year out from opening. I am so proud of the 1,600 people that are building that place, our construction team, every single day. The quality of the construction is some of the best we have ever experienced. We're actually ready to start laying carpet on the first floor of the hotel tower within the next couple of weeks. We've installed lush landscaping around the site, and we've renovated the polluted river bank into a living shoreline that connects almost two miles of boardwalk. The site is transforming into a destination resort. We continue to expect to open in late June of 2019. On a final note, Japan. We were encouraged by the passage of the Implementation Bill several weeks ago. We have been quietly active in Japan for a numbers of years now. I've been dozens of times myself, building strong relationships in a country where trust and relationships matter. We believe that the Wynn aesthetic, our unrelenting focus on excellence and our commitment to thoughtful, immersive entertainment will resonate well in Japan. And we look forward to competing there. Craig, I'll turn it over to you to go through some more highlights in the quarter.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks, Matt. I'll quickly run through some additional points on the quarter. As Matt mentioned, Macau delivered $352.2 million of EBITDA on $1.2 billion of net revenues. These results were negatively impacted by VIP hold at Wynn Macau, reducing EBITDA there by approximately $13 million from a normalized level. Bad debt in Macau was a credit of $3.1 million in the quarter, compared to a credit of $1 million in the prior year. Las Vegas delivered $124.2 million of EBITDA in the quarter on net revenues of $421.6 million, driven by strength in hotel and F&B. Table games hold percentage was in the normal range during the quarter. Las Vegas experienced some unique expense pressures during the quarter with margin declining a little over 200 basis points from the prior year quarter. About 100 basis points of this decline was driven by a combination of one-time items and a $3 million swing in bad debt expense. In Boston, we incurred $259.9 million in total project cost during the quarter, taking the total spend to-date to $1.64 billion. We remain on time and consistent with the last published budget of $2.5 billion. We ended the quarter with total debt of $8.3 billion and total cash and investments of $1.6 billion, including $1 billion at Wynn Macau. Subsequent to quarter end, our retail joint venture, of which we own 50.1%, issued $615 million of debt with the net proceeds used to pay a proportional dividend to us and our joint venture partner. Since we consolidate the retail joint venture for reporting purposes, we anticipate we will consolidate a 100% of this debt financing, which you will see on our September 30, 2018, balance sheet. Consistent with our announcement earlier in the year, our quarterly dividend is $0.75 per share, returning over $80 million to shareholders in the second quarter. We look forward to continuing to prudently reinvest in our business while returning excess capital to shareholders. With that, we'll now move to Q&A. Operator?
Operator:
Thank you Our first question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Hey, thanks guys. Matt, I just wanted to quickly touch on the comments you made about July, for starters. I thought you said, quarter-over-quarter, July was running up 20% as well as year-over-year. Is that accurate? And if so, could you talk a little bit about the VIP contributions specifically as that seemed to be one of the bigger shortfalls in the period from a year-over-year perspective, most notably at Peninsula for some of the reasons that you said?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. The year-over-year was 20% and the sequential was June to July, month-to-month, well, up over 20%. And we saw a broad-based resurgence in both VIP and mass. What was interesting was in the back two weeks of the quarter, we really began to see the acceleration. Mass revenues or mass drop grew about 15% in the last two weeks of July compared to the first two weeks. So July has been quite good for us.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Great. Thanks. And then, if I could, just on Las Vegas. You talked a little bit about the 3Q looking like it was going to be flat year-over-year. I'm assuming that was in reference to RevPAR and just given the gaming volumes that obviously marquee fights would bring. I would assume that, all things equal, a flat RevPAR for 3Q would be likely a down EBITDA. Is that correct in terms of you referencing RevPAR was looking flat for the 3Q?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's right. It was RevPAR.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Okay, great. And then, just one last one quickly. As it pertains to the golf course, with respect to the current budget for the 400,000 additional square feet of meeting space, everything is the same there in terms of the broader scheme for that. I think you said you were going to continue through design phase for the balance of this year. And then sometime, I would assume, next year we'd kind of learn a little bit more about the ideas there?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's right. We have a lot more work to do on the master planning, and we'll be talking more about that near the end of this year or early next year.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Okay. Thanks, Matt.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Hey, good afternoon. And, Matt, thanks for all the additional color and the prepared remarks. Maybe to stay with kind of Macau and a little bit of the difference between July and what you saw in Q2. It sounds like you guys really dug around some to kind of investigate what you were seeing for the – it sounds like maybe the last six weeks of the second quarter. So then kind of the key question I have is, kind of what are the people on the ground telling you about what might have changed in July to get activity levels back? Has competition dropped off a little bit? Did you guys react and change or tweak strategy a little bit? Just kind of what do you think is driving a little bit of kind of the resurgence back in July?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Well, July is just a much stronger month than June, given the World Cup impact and what was going on due to seasonality. Ian, I'll let you take up what you're seeing in July.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
It was the World Cup bounce back. The liquidity returned to the junket market particularly and also our direct program, premium mass was up. And what we saw during the second quarter in the junkets in addition to new rooms having opened in other areas is when new rooms open up, players are sometimes diverted from existing rooms just to show business for the beginning of the new room. So I believe that that was the factor. We also had low hold in a couple of junkets in the second quarter which normalized, and that brought players back as well. Sometimes the junkets will move players to other rooms because they're worried about increasing bad luck. So we just basically got back to normal at all business levels in all sectors of the business. One of the ups in Wynn Palace is we haven't plateaued. We continue to grow our business, and 80% of our room mix is now going to the casino sector, up from 75% in June.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Great. And maybe just as a follow-up, Ian or Matt. We heard a little bit about possibility of either renovating some junket space at Palace or adding in additional tables there. Is there demand and are you guys doing anything on the VIP side either there or at the Peninsula that's notable?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes, we are. And there is additional demand. So our largest junket operator will be taking a new room probably within the next six weeks, and there will be quite a large increase in the tables there. So we're really excited about it. Ian, do you have any further thoughts on that?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
It's our biggest junket operator at Wynn Palace and they're going to increase their table count by 40% in a really attractive gaming area with its own individual access from the street. It's very nicely appointed at the front of the property. So we believe that that would be a huge success.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Hi, thanks a lot. So, Ian, given the quarter's results and as you look forward and you see new competition coming on, which should continue and you work to stem the market share losses, can you talk to us about some of the things or some of the plans you have to kind of better face that competition? I mean, you just mentioned the new junket operator, but that can't be the whole of your plan?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
No. And Felicia, it's Matt. One thing I should point out is our market share in July, all normal hold, was 17%; the second highest that we've ever experienced in our history. So new competition does not mean market share loss. What we have with Wynn Palace is we're actually opening two new restaurants within the next two months, and then we're continuing this expansion. Wynn Palace is going to continue to be a market share taker. We still have Lisboa coming up, we have the light rail that will be opening at some point in the near future. We will become the hub of activity in the center. And with Wynn Macau downtown, with the reinvestment that we're going to be putting into the original casino, it will really revitalize that property. And so, I believe that both Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace are going to continue to increase their share.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Thank you. That's helpful. And then, Craig, I think this is an important question given the results today and I know you don't give guidance. Matt, you were very helpful to kind of give us some per day EBITDA data, which kind of helps us think about the third quarter. But when I look at consensus estimates, EBITDA in Macau, you see the cadence kind of growing sequentially third quarter over second quarter and forth over third. The data that, Matt, you provided to us indicates that the third quarter sequentially should grow over the second quarter, but should we expect the fourth quarter to also grow above the third?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
You're right, Felicia. We don't give guidance. I think what we were trying to do is give you some color on how July is playing out, and I think what we've seen is a resurgence in the business from what we saw in Q2. And that's really what we're saying right now.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. And then, just final for Ian. You're now 80% casino customer in the mix at Wynn Palace. I know you've said before that in your ideal world, you'd get to the mid 90s like you are at on the Peninsula. You've moved along quite nicely. How long do you think it could take to get there?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
We are coming off an incredibly accelerated ramp-up and it is softening a little bit, but we will continue to grow market share. As Matt said, we'll continue to take business from the market as new properties open up in our neighborhood. And we will continue to convert rooms over to high-paying casino customers, and that's worked out very effectively for us. And ideally, you go to 100%, but we'll see.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Do you think you could end the year kind of in the high 80s?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Hello, everybody. Matt, you talked about not competing on price at Peninsula. And one of the ways you'll further your competitive positioning is renovating all the Encore room. Can you just talk about room renovation there and elsewhere in Macau and the timetable? And perhaps how disruptive that might be and how we should be mindful of that to the extent that you're looking to experience some renovation-related disruption on volumes and EBITDA?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So the room renovation will begin in the next few months and we're trying to stage it to not have as much, too much disruption. But clearly, as you know, that always exists. So we're working through how we're staging the rooms that are out of commission, how long we're going to have them out of commission and what that will mean. I don't have an exact answer as to what the impact will be. Again, we are trying to minimize it. It will be short term, obviously.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
And then just big picture wise, I mean to what extent do you think the VIP volumes influence either directly or indirectly premium mass play? I know that's something one of your competitors has talked about not only going after VIP. It would help that segment, but then it'd also help on the premium mass side. And then, maybe you can just talk about 2Q versus 1Q sort of directionally when you look at your premium mass performance in Macau, whether it's in the aggregate or at each property, how did it do sequentially in the 2Q versus the 1Q? And that's all for me. Thanks.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Okay. So in terms of the premium mass piece, what we saw, obviously, in the first quarter, we had a really, really strong March, in particular downtown at the Peninsula. And the premium mass segment, as you know, faded off into the May and June period. May was not as strong as we had anticipated, but we've really seen it come back in July. So we're anticipating the Macau market, even with some – August should not be that tough of a comp given what happened last August, but we believe that the Macau market is going to continue to grow.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
And then, premium mass performance in the 2Q versus the 1Q?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Ian, do you have thoughts on that?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Joe, at Wynn Palace, we continue to ramp up premium mass. It's a really rich source of business for us. What we've been doing in both properties is running a lot of events, both in food and beverage and entertainment, and that's helping us solidify and build on our premium mass customers. So in both properties, looking at year-to-date, we're very pleased with the progress we've made.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
And would you say, the 2Q versus 1Q – I mean if you look at LVS which breaks it out, it was basically flat sequentially. Would you say, yours maybe performed a little bit in the same way? Or can just talk about the performance there with some specificity?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
I think overall for us in the market, it's a grown at a nice pace and will continue to accelerate.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Thank you, guys.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Nomura. Your line is open.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
Hi. Several just quick follow-ons. First on the Peninsula. Typically, when you renovate, you take out three floors at a time. Do you think that that's probably going to be the similar pattern here?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Well, it depends on how many rooms are on per floor. The Encore Tower is 414 rooms. And so, we plan on launching that near the end of the year. And based on the construction schedule, Ian, do you have any idea of when we think we'll be finished with that construction?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
So we actually have the ability with a single loaded building to do it almost one floor at a time and really narrow the disruption. And we have a lot of experience with doing that in the original Wynn Tower. So we're very comfortable that the disruption will be minimal. There isn't any heavy structural work. So it's really redecorating. And in addition to that, we don't believe it's going to impact occupancy too much. The Encore Tower is 400 keys as you said.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
And, Ian, while we have you, you've got some historic perspective. Some of these competitors who have re-entered the market have come and gone a couple of times anyway. Do you think that this time is different that they've either got a better product or a better service that makes you a little bit more concerned about them taking share?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
I think, Harry, we have enough experience in the market to not panic when we see a fall-off in a particular market segment. As Matt said, we did a deep dive to look at every element of our business in the junket side, engaged with the junket partners to find out if there was something we were missing, and there wasn't. So we continue to focus on the product, the facility and the service that we give. That's our leverage. There's always pressure to increase advances, to increase commissions. And when people are building new rooms and trying to get back in the game, that's the leverage they use, but it hurts them at EBITDA. So we're not in that game.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And that's always short-term and it has been for the last 40 years in every market. When you chase business with creditor price, you end up backing off. So our product is strong. We're moving some of our junkets around in Wynn Macau with a couple of new rooms. And so, we feel very good about our position there.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
That historic perspective is helpful. Just a quick question on Las Vegas. We're all concerned about the group demand in Vegas in the third quarter, but why don't we take a little bit longer perspective? Are you guys seeing much encouragement with your group booking pace and pricing for 2019?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And, Harry, one point is, we are not concerned with group demand at all. It's actually quite strong. Why it is a little weak in the third quarter is we don't have the McGregor-Mayweather fight and Yom Kippur happens to fall in September. So our group demand is quite strong this year. And, in fact, 2019 is looking strong. Maurice, why don't you comment on 2019?
Maurice Wooden - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So, exactly. 2019 is actually well ahead of pace and we're excited about not just the pace and the amount of rooms, but we're also looking at strong ADR growth in that segment as well. So 2019 is very healthy.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
And how do you define strong? Is that mid-single digit or more?
Maurice Wooden - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I would say, we're outpacing our forecasted pace by 20%.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
I don't know what's your budget or...
Maurice Wooden - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So we always have a pacing that we work toward internally, and we're well ahead of that internal pace in order for us to hit our budget numbers.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's right. We can't tell you exactly what it's going to be. We don't have everything on the books. But we're far ahead in our pacing, which should give us more pricing power going into 2019.
Harry C. Curtis - Instinet LLC:
That's perfect. Thanks, guys.
Operator:
And next, we'll go to Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
Hey, thanks. I guess another follow-up on the VIP weakness on the Peninsula. I guess you noted the competitive change, but that didn't seem to impact Cotai. So how do you generally think about growth on the Peninsula and your fair share long-term? And as a related question, do you generally see customers from Peninsula shifting interchangeably between your properties at this point? Or are they dedicated to the properties?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Linda, why don't you take that one?
Linda Chen - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So we do obviously see a gravitation towards the Cotai market, and that is true for both mass and VIP. Also, as the new products are opening on the Cotai market, that does make I guess a gravitation towards the new experience. But in general, our products are still of quality. We believe Wynn Macau will still be the strong player downtown. So we continue as we upgrade our property, I think we are sustaining that market for both Cotai and Peninsula.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And just to put it in perspective. When we plan, we plan for the long -term. And so, Macau is going to be the entertainment hub of the Greater Bay region which going to be an interconnected 60 million population city with a GDP of over $1.5 trillion. One of the largest underground rail stations is being built right outside Macau. Everyone talks about the bridge. But this Greater Bay region is going to be one of the most visited and powerful places on the planet over the next 10 years. So I am a big believer in the Peninsula. I'm a big believer in Macau, in Cotai, in Hengqin Island in that area. It's really at the heart of some of the largest scale development in terms of infrastructure and wealth creation in the world.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
So I have two quick follow-ups I guess to those comments. The first is, peers have been citing new your customers coming in from further away. How would you characterize the breadth and depth of your customers in the VIP business when you think about that competitive change in the marketplace? Is that effectively there capturing more of that incremental? Or is it a share shift among the existing?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Ian, why don't you take that?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
So I think we're all experiencing the same thing. And as more and more inventory has opened up on the room side, particularly in Cotai, we've seen a much greater reach into areas other than the Guangdong region. So general visitation into Macau year-over-year was up 7%, but from outside of Guangdong it was up to 15%, driven heavily by overnighters, length of stay is increasing. So I think we're all experiencing the same thing, a greater reach into China. And as Matt said, as infrastructure opens, the bridge, the light rail and Gongbei Border connectivity with Zhuhai airport and Hengqin Island, we will see a larger visitor arrival into Macau and primarily from outside of Guangdong.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
And on your point of being an entertainment hub, Matt, can you just offer a sneak peak as to how you're thinking about the financial impact of some of the attractions being planned, whether that's a direct EBITDA contribution or just driving incremental traffic to the property?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Clearly, there would be a direct EBITDA contribution. Without giving a forecast, what we've seen is when we hold special events in our ballroom, we oftentimes – a couple of times a month will hold concerts for regional acts that are quite popular. Anywhere, they will have between 900 to 1,000 people in attendance. We see significant pickup in our gaming activity. And so, we really think that our premium customers to get them to come more often and stay longer are expecting these types of experiences along with the additional culinary experiences that they can't get anywhere else in the region. So those are really intended to focus on the premium customer and the length of stay. And based on what we've been doing over the last 10 years, we feel very comfortable that this is going to help drive additional share gain.
Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs & Co. LLC:
Great. Thanks. Best of luck in the back half.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks.
Operator:
Our next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Your line is open.
David Katz - Jefferies LLC:
Hi, afternoon, everyone. And thank you for all the insights around sort of the past quarter and the go-forward. I wanted to ask about the capital markets philosophy, Matt. Over the years, the company has been very sharp in maneuvering. With kind of the way the stock has performed, with Boston getting closer and closer to conclusion, leverage coming down, are there any thoughts about revisiting any capital returns and how you're thinking about that over the next few quarters?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We are focused on capital returns, whether that's through capital deployment or returning straight to shareholders. As you know, David, we have a preference, and I've always had a strong preference for dividends. Recurring and increasing growth in the dividends, I believe, provides stability in the stock and enhances our shareholder base. So that's something, as a management team, we will also be very focused on.
David Katz - Jefferies LLC:
I know nothing is hard and fast or etched in stone, but should we be led to believe we're sort of ruling out some of the other options? The company has done special dividends historically, not lately, but has done special dividends from time to time.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's right. I like a predictable dividend that grow each year along with the business. That's our philosophy and it'll always be based on business volumes, but predictable dividend growth is something that we will always be focused on.
David Katz - Jefferies LLC:
Got it. And if I can ask – go ahead.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
With respect to share buybacks, we're an EBITDA-based valuation. So we don't get a lot of EPS credit. To the extent that the stock was extremely cheap, we would obviously Hoover it up. But as Matt said, we're very focused on returning capital and getting predictable long-term credit for that, which really means through the recurring dividend.
David Katz - Jefferies LLC:
I appreciate that. If I can ask one other, it has been I guess a quarter and change since leadership in the company has changed. What changes or evolutions or what initiatives, Matt, can you sort of point to or talk about that you have put your shoulder behind or launched since taking over the leadership role?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. So I'll first start with the capital deployment. So before I became the CEO, we were about to launch a $3 billion-plus theme park attraction with a resort in Las Vegas. We were not as focused on Macau. And so, what I've done since I've gotten here and taken this role over is brought in some of the people that have always been behind the curtain on the creativity side, some of the people that I mentioned earlier. And we've focused intently on the expansion in Macau, on renovating Wynn Macau, and rethinking what it is that we're going to do in Las Vegas to ensure that it will add significant value to Wynn Las Vegas, but also to the shareholders. So there were years and years in planning that I have changed course on and feel very comfortable with the direction that we're going. And we continue to have real focus on, as we always have, service levels and product. I'm not someone that's going to be cutting expenses to get to the bottom line. That's the quickest way to cut the stock price. We're a revenue-based company. We're going to continue to grow revenue, take share and build the best product. I've just shifted where our focus is. And I'd say that's probably over the last couple of months for the external factors one of the single largest changes. Internally, clearly, you've seen lots of refresh on the board. You've seen we've had lots of changes in terms of some of our policies, procedures and the things that we're doing. But our capital deployment strategy has probably been the single biggest change.
David Katz - Jefferies LLC:
Got it. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Operator:
And next, we'll go to Robin Farley with UBS. Your line is open.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Great. Thanks. I wanted to circle back on, you talked about the impact short term when there's new junket competitive supply at other properties and I guess there'll be more of that to come in Q4. So should we be thinking about the expectation that maybe there will be a similar short-term impact in Q4, given what you've talked about how you're not going to respond to some of those shorter-term things that the competition does when new supply comes on in junkets. Is that something that we should be keeping in mind for Q4?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yeah. Again, we don't want to be giving Q4 guidance right now and we're not going to complete on price. When new rooms open, as Ian pointed out, junkets will often times shift players over to show their new rooms. They expand the liquidity. It hits the market like a freight train. There's lots of credit coming out of that product. That has been going on in Macau for a long time. We don't forecast our business based on that because it's very, very short-term.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Okay. And then a question on Vegas on the margins. You talked about them being down over 200 basis points. I think in your opening remarks, the comment was that about 100 basis points was due to some bad debt and some one-off costs. Should we think about the other piece of that margin pressure as maybe being a higher cost structure that will carry going forward?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Hey, Robin. It's Craig. You should think about it that way. It's about 100 basis points of incremental payroll that we are incurring due to some regulatory changes and a general COLA increase. Of course, over the longer-term, we'll continue to grow revenue and drive operating leverage here in Vegas. But in the short-term, we are experiencing some modest pressures.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And the regulatory changes, Maurice, why don't you let them know what that actually was?
Maurice Wooden - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So there were a couple of changes that were made that we had to adjust to, and that had to do with the policies related to, more than any other area was food and beverage. We had a tip pool that managers participated in, in a lot of our restaurant outlets as well as our nightclubs, and that was now declared something that no longer can exist. And so, therefore, we had to shift all the tips and take all the managers away from tip pool and we had salary increases to all of our food and beverage outlets and nightlife and in some of the hotel areas that we're receiving some of the tip tools. So that particular shift is something that we have made some adjustment with respect to pricing. And so, I think we'll realize the ability to be able to overcome that. But in the short-term, we felt that pressure.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Okay. All right. Great. Thank you.
Operator:
Next, we'll go to Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Hey, good afternoon. How do you think currency impacts the Macau market? I mean do you think it has an impact, do you think it impacts the VIP or mass more? And were you seeing any signs that the depreciating renminbi was having an influence on spend per visitor or anything like that? Thank you.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thomas, we talked about that some internally and have decided that we should stick to the entertainment business and not the currency speculation business. Clearly, a depreciating currency could have an impact, but we haven't seen a direct correlation and we spend more time thinking about our product and our service. But if you find the correlation, please call Craig and fill him in.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Perfect. Okay. And then just on Japan, what you guys are expecting for next steps? Are there certain markets that you're focused on more than others? Any other things you could discuss there? Thanks.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
There are couple of markets that I think everyone's focused on. We are spending a lot of time there working on developing relationships with many of the local corporates and talking through what our proposed plans would be. Again, I think we're really excited to compete there given what our product's going to be, what we stand for. Everything in Japan is about high quality. It's about precision. It's about the best service really anywhere to be found; and that's what we stand for. So we're really excited to partner with some strong local firms in Japan and make a run for one of these licenses over the next 12 to 18 months.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Do you guys have any sense on when the RFP will start?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I really don't want to comment on the government process there. I think that they will lay it out in detail when they're ready to.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
All right. Thank you.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thanks.
Operator:
And our last question is from Anil Daswani. Your line is open.
Anil J. Daswani - Citigroup Global Markets Asia Ltd.:
Okay. Good morning, guys. For me, two questions. Matt, you gave us on the opening remarks some details on your entertainment center on the seven-acres between Wynn Palace and Lisboa Palace. Could you give us a little bit more color in terms of CapEx if there intended to be any rooms on that or if you expect any tables on that piece of real estate, is my first question. And the second question, obviously, premium mass has become a bigger focus. In the second quarter, could you give us an idea of what percentage of your mass revenues actually came from premium mass? And have you seen that change into the strength in July?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. So on the entertainment development that we're working on, it is solely food and beverage and entertainment. It will currently take up roughly about half the site and leaving the other half for future development for things like you pointed out if they're needed, but this will be just an entertainment and food and beverage focused facility. And we're quite excited about it. We're not there yet to be giving CapEx estimates for this project. That will be coming over the next few months. We really don't break out premium mass versus the ground play quarter-over-quarter. Needless to say, you know our brand and what we stand for. We're a premium house. That means premium VIP, premium mass, premiums slots. That's the customer that we cater to, but we typically do not give the percentages.
Anil J. Daswani - Citigroup Global Markets Asia Ltd.:
Okay. Thanks, Matt.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Okay. Thanks.
Operator:
And that concludes the question-and-answer session.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Okay. Thank you very much. We'll talk to everybody next quarter.
Operator:
Thank you. That concludes today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Craig Billings - CFO, Principal Accounting Officer & Treasurer Matthew Maddox - President Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau) SA & Wynn Macau Limited Linda Chen - President, Wynn International Marketing, Ltd Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Ciaran Carruthers - COO, Wynn Macau
Analysts:
Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Joe Greff - JPMorgan Harry Curtis - Nomura Instinet Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs David Katz - Jefferies Robin Farley - UBS Thomas Allen - Morgan Stanley. Anil Daswani - Citi
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts' First Quarter 2018 Earnings Call. All participants are in listen-only until the question answer session of today’s conference. [Operator Instructions] This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Operator and good afternoon everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden. Also on the line are Ian Coughlan, Linda Chen, [Indiscernible] and Bob DeSalvio. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Matt Maddox.
Matthew Maddox:
Good afternoon and thank you for joining us today. It’s definitely been an eventful three months since we last reported quarterly earnings. So I’d like to start the call by reminding everyone of who we are. We are the leading operator of luxury five start integrated resorts catering to the most discerning customers in the world. We are the designers and developers of buildings and amenities that are global, international tourist destinations. We are 25,000 professionals, dealers, architects, florists, house-keepers, performers, chefs, designers and thousands and thousands of others. They deliver our brand promise to over 20 million customers globally every single year. Together, we are Wynn. Over the past three months, those 25,000 people have done what they do best. Being in the moment with our customers, paying attention to every detail, and delivering the best experience available in the markets where we operate. And the score cards in, record results. Their efforts show immediately right now in what you see. Meanwhile, executive management is not only been focused on maintaining and enhancing the operations of the business and stabilizing the culture but in reducing the noise surrounding our business. As CEO, I’m not interested in looking in the rearview mirror to guaranteed wreck on the way, I’m only focused on the future. And in order to focus on the future, we had to make meaningful progress over the last 60 days so that on each and every one of these calls, we are talking about our business and we are talking about our people and we are talking about our growth. Just to remind you of a few things that we’ve done over the last 60 days. Steve Wynn is no longer a shareholder in his business. In fact, two thirds of his stock or 8 million shares the company personally placed with two long-term institutional stock for shareholders, and we are proud to have their support. Galaxy Entertainment, a company that we greatly admire purchased 920 plus million dollars of Wynn stock right under 5% of Wynn Resorts Limited and we look forward to working with them in the future. We increased our quarterly dividend by 50% and we’re no longer mired in litigation six years of litigation with Universal entertainment, billions of dollars at risk, and we were able to solve that by repurchasing the redeemed shares effectively. There are 24.5 million shares it’s $78 a share. We didn’t finance it at 2%, we financed it at 6%. That was the deal we made. It was a great deal for our shareholders and for our company, it was a great deal for universal and it’s no longer financial overhang and a significant drag on management time and a distraction and we wish universal well in the future. We also resolve dollars gaining litigation with [Indiscernible] Wynn. Six years work, we have no payment by the company. In addition, I’m particularly proud of our board. They began a serious search to refresh and expand our board of directors, 60 days ago. Started with over 50 candidates and are using an executive search for and plus their networks and their connections. I personally interviewed over 10 different candidates, personally interviewed 10 candidates, and I’m really proud of the nominating committee and our board of directors for the three people that they chose. Three new female board members that are going to bring significant skill and experience to our board and to our company as it relates to corporate governance. Strategic communication, hospitality, technology and what’s exciting about these new board of members, on top of the great asset that they are going to bring to the board room is that our company is now in the top 40 of the S&P 500, in terms of female representation on public company boards. We’ve also continued and to implement significant initiatives internally to bolster our company’s culture and to make sure that it remains strong and keep growing. I am committed to lead our company and in this industry in diversity and gender equality. And what’s great about our company is our base is already so strong. For every job opening it at Wynn Las Vegas we get 110 applications. 110 applications and that is actually increasing right now. Our turnover rate is less than half of the industry standard because this is the best place to work and we are going to continue to invest in our people. They are not expense they are the assets of the company and we are really excited about the future. As I mentioned in our March preannouncement, we are intensely focused on capital allocation to enhance shareholder value, that includes all future development opportunities in Las Vegas in Macau and in and region that I’m very excited about Japan, which we are going to be spending more time and more resources there in the future. Let me give you a concrete example of this approach. Over the last 30 days, we watched a review of our $360 million convention facility. To ensure what we were building was exactly right. We were able to identify $35 million of savings by simply consolidating some back of house space while only reducing the readable square footage by less than 5%. The changes actually enhance the customer experience, do not impact the timing, which is scheduled to open in March of 2020, and enhances the EBITDA potential of the project. That type of discipline and focus is something that we are going to bring to everything we do in this company. In addition, I have begun closely working with our global design and development team, which has over a hundred employee, 150 employees and is the best in our industry. Because I want to take a fresh look at the lagoon project -- the lagoon component of our project on the Golf course in Las Vegas. I’ve challenged the team, I don’t want to focus on the mass-market theme park which is really where we were going before on trying to attract more the mass-market into the lagoon and really focus on the luxury customer, and what it is that our hotel guest wants. And so the lagoon is going to be an amenity for our hotel guest, because we are going to reinvent daytime activity for the guest in Las Vegas and continue to make Wynn Las Vegas the best place to stay on the Las Vegas strip. Lastly, in Las Vegas we are carefully considering our approach, our approach to the development of the lagoon. We are really fortunate to have a large assembly of prime Las Vegas land and the importance of appropriately sequencing that development cannot be overstated. We look forward to providing more details on these developments in the very near future. Moving to Macau, I have reprioritized and accelerated investment opportunities in Macau. In 2018, we will begin $100 million investment program at the Peninsula in Downtown Wynn Macau. This will include reinvigorating our regional casino, we got the West casino -- building two new restaurants there, taking out a lot of the exterior junkets space that’s not productive and making that a vibrant atmosphere. We think the returns to our shareholders will be quite impressive when we are finished with that. We are also going to remodel our Encore rooms. Some of the most popular room in all of Macau are going to begin that remodel this year. Moving to Wynn Palace, we opened Red 8 in February to great success. The team is currently working on two new restaurant concepts that we plan on getting construction on this year that will continue to add to the non-gaming amenities at Wynn Palace. In addition, we are conceptualizing what we should be doing with the 11 acres of additional land at Wynn Palace. We are working through what will be best for our company, for our shareholders and also to achieve the government division of increasing non-gaming amenities in Macau. Turning quickly to some of the quarter results. We saw strength across the portfolio. At Wynn Palace, we continue to aggressively take share in the mass-market. And it wasn’t only in the premium mass. In fact, our premium mass was up over twice what it was at this time last year, but demand for mass-market was up over 70% from last year, so we are seeing strength across the board in the mass-market at Wynn Palace. In fact, our mass gaming revenues, including slots were almost 48% of our gross gaming revenue and that compared to just 39% in the fourth quarter of 2017. Our VIP volumes remained strong up 39% so everything’s working there. Wynn Macau continued to maintain its share during the quarter. VIP volumes were up 29% over the year in math is up over 20% I really want to commend Ian Linda Huron and Frederick in the 13,000 Macau base colleagues for delivering so strongly over the past several quarters and their intense focus on the future. In Las Vegas, the property experienced a record first quarter EBITDA. In fact, overall room revenues for the first quarter were quarterly record for Wynn Las Vegas. And I think what’s important as we’ve seen no degradation of business, in fact, what we are seeing is stronger bookings for 2018 and into 2019 if you look at the same time last year. So what we are feeling and seeing in Las Vegas is continued strength. I’m as excited as ever about the future prospects of this company. We have the best assets in the industry and we will continue to execute on our service and product lead strategy in all of our markets over the coming years. Before we turn it over to Q&A, I’d like for Craig Billings to take everyone through some of the specifics in the press release. Craig?
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Matt. I’ll quickly run through some additional points on the quarter. I’d like to start by reminding everyone like our peers we adopted new revenue recognition accounting guidance in the quarter that impacts the current and historical periods revenue and expense classifications, but does not impact our EBITDA. While there are a number of reporting changes stemming from the adoption of this guidance, there are two key changes I would like to know. First is the elimination of promotional allowances in determining net revenues, with comps now directly reducing the revenues of the departments using those comps. And the second is the full deduction of 100% of junket commissions from gaming revenues in Macau. We’ll spend some time with the analyst community after this call to help further break down these changes and to distill an apples-to-apples view of EBITDA margins and certain other key metrics impacted by this guidance. As Matt mentioned, Macau was particularly strong this quarter delivering $421.7 million of EBITDA on $1.3 billion in net revenues. Continued ramping of Palace and improved mass revenues drove operating leverage leading to a record EBITDA margin of Palace something we are particularly proud of. These results were not materially impacted by hold, with the direct program holding higher than junkets. That debt in Macau was $300,000 in the quarter compared to a $4.6 million credit in the prior year. Las Vegas delivered $142.6 million of EBITDA in the quarter on net revenues of 431.5 million driven by strength across the property. Table games whole percentage was on the high end of our expected range in both current and prior year periods driving a little over 10 million of incremental EBITDA in Q1, 2018. Bad debt in Las Vegas was $400,000 comparable to the prior year quarter. In Boston, we incurred $241.7 million in total project cost during the quarter taking the total spend to date to $1.38 billion. We remain on time and consistent with the last published budget. We ended the quarter with total debt of $9.36 billion and total cash and investments of $2.2 billion, including $1.6 billion at Wynn Macau. Those debt and cash balances reflect the payment of the $2.4 billion universal note and settlement. However, it’s important to note that several financing transactions were in motion on March 31. Our $800 million bridge facility used to partially pay the universal note and settlement was outstanding at quarter end. Also at March 31, the sale of $927.5 million of stock to Galaxy Entertainment had been arranged but had not yet closed. When that equity transaction closed on April 3, $800 million of the proceeds were used to repay the previously mentioned Bridge loan. With that, we will now move to Q&A.
Operator:
Thank you.[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon everyone. Matt, thanks for the run through on sort of the overdue on the strategy. I think it’s really helpful for everybody. Maybe one area you could talk about since there has been a lot of press speculation on it would be Massachusetts, specifically I mean clearly got an update on where you stand with the budget, but there has been a lot swirling around others too, could you just give us any of your latest thinking about potential outcomes and strategy as it relates to the project specifically?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. When we entered that market it was actually five years ago. We were excited about the prospect of that market, our location and the ability to generate some growth for the company. And five years later till today, we still like the Greater Boston area market. We think it is a really good opportunity. However, we are a $30 billion company, and if there was ever any risk due to heightened rhetoric, that there could be any contagion from Massachusetts into our $30 billion company in Las Vegas and Macau, we will have to take a hard look at what is best to protect our shareholders and our value. Still again, we love the market. We are going to continue to actively cooperate with the regulators there, and move forward. But at the same time, we will always be protecting our shareholders and our employees.
Shaun Kelley:
And Matt, there’s been some discussion on like timeline pointing towards you know maybe not an open-ended investigation but something that can maybe wrap up a little sooner possibly as early as early part of the summer, is that consistent with what your understanding is or could you give people an update on just what your thoughts are on maybe having more, a more concrete outcome there?
Matthew Maddox:
I think that our understanding is consistent with yours that it’s in the summer. I wouldn’t want to speculate early or mid, but we are actively cooperating with regulators and it feels like the process is moving forward quite smoothly.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. I’ll open it up for everyone else. Thank you for taking my questions.
Operator:
Thank you Mr. Kelley. Next, we have Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli:
Yes, hi and thanks for taking my question. Matt, you referenced in your remarks earlier the taking out of the promissory note, the 2% note with the 6%. I’m assuming that 6% refers to the cost of equity with Galaxy and if so, what was the decision behind going with an equity investment there?
Matthew Maddox:
So those two things are totally separate. What we agreed too with Universal was that from the time that note was outstanding the $1.936 billion that instead of it being at a 2% interest rate, it would be at a 6% interest rate. And when you recalculate it over the five year period, that’s why the number was $2.4 billion instead of $1.9 billion. So the extra 400 plus million dollars was incremental interest expense.
Carlo Santarelli:
Right, sorry that’s correct. I remember that. Now but just in terms of the Galaxy and the decision to use equity in that transaction as opposed to potentially a lower after-tax cost of debt, could you talk a little bit about the thought process there?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure, so what I’m focused on is having long-term strategic partners as owners of this company. The two investors that buy 8 million shares from Steve Wynn fit into that category and so does Galaxy. I’ve been a long admirer of [Indiscernible] and what he’s done, and they are long-term investors. And so having long-term stable capital in the equity, I think is very is a very good move for this company and for all the shareholders. Also, Carlo I’m not a big fan of lots of parent company debt, which is where that $1.9 billion existed. It was the only debt at parent, so advertising the parent, getting rid of the $2 billion of debt at the parent, really enhances our flexibility to do more in the future.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thanks Matt and then Craig if you don’t mind I thought you mentioned that the Las Vegas hold impact was a $10 million benefit did if I missed that I apologize but did you quantify the you know lower than theoretical VIP Hold in Macau?
Craig Billings:
What I mentioned is that it really didn’t have the material impact in Macau, because we held high and direct and low in junkets. So really the only impact was in Vegas.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you Mr. Santarelli. Next we have Felicia Hendrix from Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, thank you and good afternoon. Matt, I really appreciate your the overview and the review of the company’s accomplishment over the quarter. I thought that was very helpful. But just to step back big picture, you know since this is the first time you are addressing the investment community in this – I was just wondering if you could walk us through your vision, both in the near term and the longer term and if you could frame your response in regards to you know governments, organic growth, CapEx and capital return that would be helpful. I mean obviously your prepared remarks touched upon it a bit, but just looking forward how do you see the company evolving over time?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure, so the company’s current asset base is the best in the business I believe. And our growth profile is quite strong. And so what we are doing is we are reprioritizing where we want to spend our capital based on where we think we can get more immediate growth. So I have re-prioritized spending money in Macau, and looking at those projects and in what’s going to attract new customers and keep our customers at those properties longer. In Las Vegas, our previous project it actually the budget was over $3 billion. That was not sustainable, and so we are taking a hard look at what is sustainable here and what’s going to keep attracting our customer. So we are moving forward with the lagoon and we are going, and I’m a big believer in the future of Las Vegas and so what were going to be coming back to the investment community with later this year is where our next development opportunity will be. Will it be on the lagoon? Will it be on the Las Vegas strip with a property we purchased in January, those are things that we are studying now and we’ll spend a lot of time on. In terms of future development, we – I am going to be spending more time and we’re really enhancing our team to focus on the Japan opportunity. It’s something that I think is getting time is getting, ripe for additional investment and we are really focused on that. We think we have a great story there we’re already talking to potential consortium partners. We are focusing on locations. I have dedicated a couple of people there, that are full time, that are developers and understand how to work with the governments in terms of what it is that they want to accomplish. So the vision is we are going to keep developing. We are going to be at the top of the market. We are going to use our 150 people in our design and development team to execute properties at the highest standards that are going to drive shareholder returns.
Felicia Hendrix:
Right. And I assume that the dividends increase is the beginning of kind of a long-term view on return of capital to shareholders?
Matthew Maddox:
It is. We will consistently review invest in the ground, paydown debt, buyback stock, increased dividends. Those are something that Craig and his teams are going to be reviewing on an ongoing basis and what is going to drive more value. The 50% increase in the dividend is something that was easily sustainable by our business and we -- our board and management team will continuously be reviewing that.
Felicia Hendrix:
And that’s helpful. Thank you. And then just switching gears to Ian and I think you said Linda was on the call as well. I know the question of concession, the concession renewals and Macau came up last quarter. And I thought Steve actually gave it pretty thorough and helpful perspective on that. But investors continue to ask and be concerned about these upcoming events. So I was just wondering if either one of you or both of you could share your thoughts on what you think the requirements for renewal could be? Most investors think there might be some kind of payment required, some of even brought up the chances of having to bring in partners. So, I know they are different scenarios. Right now we could discuss and it's unknown but given that you're both kind of there in the heart of it I just thought I take your brains on this thing?
Matthew Maddox:
Ian, why don't you go ahead and take that?
Ian Coughlan :
Sure. Thank you, Matt. So, we are completely committed to the future of Macau. We continue to reinvest in the properties. Our relationship with governments as an industry has always very collegiate and very engaged. We as an industry created great success for Macau. We've been good citizens. We take great care of our employees. We brought a lot of stability to the economy here and we have every indication that the process will take place at some stage this year and we have a future in Macau and industry all of the current players. So we're waiting to be given specific detail and there has been a lot of discussion about the need for the marketplace to have more of a non-gaining focus to provide some balance with casino revenues. We're very committed to that Matt address's that result in his opening remarks. Like our other concession partners in town we continue to focus on the future of Macau reinvestment and developed for the future.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you, Ms. Hedrick. Our next question is from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff:
Hey, everybody. A couple of quick questions here, one with respect to wind power, to what extend were your -- the mass market share gains that you referenced earlier in the call. To what extend – were they more second half of the 1Q related due to MGM Cotai, construction project turning into an open property. And just in general, can you just about any -- I would presume positive walk in traffic implications from MGM Cotai?
Matthew Maddox:
I'll take that it first and then I'll turn it over to Ian, but I think what we're seeing there? We're seeing an increase in the quality of our customers. So we haven't seen a big uptick in foot traffic coming into the buildings, but if you look at the what it takes now Wynn Palace from an average daily theoretical basis to get a room comp, that is going up quite significantly which is really a telltale sign of the quality of the customers. So we're seeing premium mass customers that are staying at MGM, walking over to Wynn Palace to enjoy our facilities, and that's obviously as an outsized benefit on the revenue line. Ian or Linda do you want to add to that?
Ian Coughlan:
So, just sticking this with our customers continues, we continue to ramp-up. We've seen a significant gain in what we call our Chairman's Club and our Diamond Club areas. Premium mass customers are beating the way to Wynn Palace. We are using our rooms much more effectively and if you look at quarter 117, 53% of the inventory of the 1700 keys went casino customers. In Q1 of this year 73% of the rooms went to casino customers. So we clearly have even more room to grow there. We have listed type of customers that are standing in the room. The CO for the first quarter per room are nice tables, is up 47% and construct is up 23%. So we're getting better quality customers in the room. We got the finest room product in the marketplace. So people are getting more familiar with the property, the more holidays that happen the more visitors that are in town, the properties gaining traction, there's still lots of upside. The effective MGM, MGM will go through the same ramp-up steps that we have to go through. There's no miracles when you open a property. And we have seen increased visitation as Matt referenced. And a small negate of that is our gondola traffic is up 18% since MGM opened visitation into the property is up 7% to 8%, so there are more people on the street. The light rail was cleaned up significantly. We are waiting for the cross bridge to open between ourselves and City of Dreams. But in general the neighborhood is tightening up. We've got [Indiscernible] tower opening up later in the summer and then the [Indiscernible] Palaces announced since they'll open in Q1 2019, so lots of upside for Wynn Macau, very focused on premium mass customers, lots of room to take them in.
Linda Chen:
I think specifically how we been able to accomplish all the growth in the mass and premium mass, is first we definitely grew data base through the new aggressive sales of [Indiscernible] and their current existing sale and their strong relationship. And secondly as what we've done is you was up in the room as mentioned before, so every customer that stay in the room are absolutely putting more than what we use to have when we open. And then thirdly it's increased of frequency of both guest coming back to our property by doing more events and whether its consorts or casino marketing evens or even food and beverage event, we've leverage a lot on our facility to expand on the customer base. And then of course the casino promotion we've aggressively address those target each market. The Cortai and downturn market has different client and different that may spike in the casino events and we will address that specifically to increase that shows to our customers and hiring of sales. We've request there'll added new sales for downturn and Cortai.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then, Matt I have a follow-up on some of your older comments on Galaxy's investment in Wynn Resort. You talked about the strategic benefits of having a long term holder and the consequence of having a better capital structure, so I think all of the some is call totally get. Could you help us understand in what other ways the Galaxy investment and Wynn Resort strategic?
Matthew Maddox:
Because both operators Wynn and Galaxy focused on quality and on experience, I think that as international jurisdiction open up we could potentially work together to jointly examine those. We certainly haven't made any agreements to do that, but our operating styles and philosophies are very similar and it's something that could potentially be a valued to both companies in the future.
Joe Greff:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Thank you, Mr. Greff. Next we have Harry Curtis from Nomura Instinet. Your line is open.
Harry Curtis:
Hi, good afternoon.
Matthew Maddox:
Hi, Harry
Harry Curtis:
Hi, Matt. First question in Vegas, could you give a sense of household teams are they camping in Fontainebleau projects in your opinion. Are they at a 100%?
Matthew Maddox:
I would hate to speculate for them. It doesn't look like a 100% from a guy that drives bide everyday to go to work, but I really think you would have to ask them. There are some cranes out, there are some people there, so it's not empty and I'm actually not sure all about Fontainebleau. But it doesn't feel like it ramped up to a 100%.
Harry Curtis:
Well, I guess the reason I ask is it there are some concerns about capacity growth in 2019 or 2020, but from what we're hearing there seems to be the image and media discussion about these projects really ramping up and that's not the sense that I'm getting and that's I'm wondering if collectively in your room you would agree that they are not really running it at full capacity?
Matthew Maddox:
We would definitely agree that additional capacity in 2019 and 2020 would be a long shot. These projects feel to me like they are much further awaiting that.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. And then turning to Macau, I thought the one of the interesting things in the quarter was that Wynn Macau is proposing to repurchase about 10% of its shares. Who they purchase it from? And is it possible that they purchase it from the parent company? And is there perhaps a long-term strategy to reduce your ownership in Wynn Macau?
Craig Billings:
Harry, it's Craig. So that really a routine repurchase authorization that we and all other Hong Kong listed companies seek every few years. It's much more procedural and is not reflective of any intent.
Harry Curtis:
I see. Okay. Well then, let me ask one other question of maybe Ian. Ian, what's your view on again more of an infrastructure timing question. There been some disagreements about the timing and the impact of the Hong Kong to high bridge as well as when the light rail system really is kind of be operational, I wonder if you could give us your view on those?
Ian Coughlan:
The general sense in Macau was that it will open for traffic at some stage in the summer and the infrastructure civil engineering is all completed. The bridge – people have been doing test driving over the bridge. Key issue is the support services, getting everything coordinated simple things like rescue between three different parties and getting customs and excise organized, getting immigration organized and then dealing with how the traffic enters into the different points of entry. So that's being work through with three different authorities and it’s a magnificent structure. I don't think we'll see a huge impact from it initially. It will certainly ease the burden on the ferry terminal activity which right now is chaotic over particularly in the Hong Kong side, so we look forward to that teaming up significantly and the travel time from central Hong Kong to Macau getting through all the border situations will take an extra to be at time. I think the ferry itself will still be considered very convenient for people. But in time it will bring extra visitors to Macau the biggest gain from integrated result perspective would be the closeness of Chek Lap Kok, Hong Kong's airport and our ability to get our higher end customers from that airport to the city and to our resorts. So we're looking forward to that.
Harry Curtis:
And light rail.
Craig Billings:
The light rail, that is scheduled for 201.9 They have been testing the rolling stuff and structural wise its getting very close to completions. The drag on the light rail was the depo which had some contractual disputes and the government had done an excellent job in getting that far back up again very quickly and I think that they're locating extra speed. So, we hope to have it open next year. Clearly it's a huge opportunity for Wynn Palace in particular with the station right outside our property and it traveling on two sides of the property, so again a great thing for the neighborhood.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. Perfect. Thanks a lot.
Operator:
Thank you, Mr. Curtis. Next we have Stephen Grambling from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Stephen Grambling:
Good afternoon. Thanks. I just a few follow-ups. I guess first on Japan, given some of the rules have seemingly solidify a bit. Can you talk to your latest thought and how big even opportunity that market could be? How you would think about capital allocation there? And what you're rolling this is to lever up a little bit versus partner with someone such as Galaxy as I think you mentioned earlier?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. So, we're big believers in the Japanese market. Everything that Japan stands for in terms of tourism which is the best hospitality in the world, some of the finest food in the world, architecture that is hands down some of the best in the world. All of those things we think really fit with what we do, which is the luxury experience in integrated resorts, and more and more people from all over world in particular an Asia are traveling to Japan every year. So we would be – we're going to be very interested and looking at a large scale opportunity there we will be working with consortium of companies, but its one of the moments that in our industry you do not want to missed. And so we're clearly always watch to make sure that the rules and regulations are conducive to good operating environment, but it's one that we're very focused on.
Stephen Grambling:
And I guess a follow-up question for you Matt. In your prepared remarks you mentioned stabilizing the culture. Can you clarify that and as we look to the future what changes do you want to see and how do you think about creating your own legacy throughout the organization?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. There's just been an onslaught of negativity from the media. And what that does is that destabilizes people because they read that are things for sale or their problems, and so I've actually been hosting town halls for all employees about 15 of them and I think I've seen almost 15,000 employees so far talking about the future of the company and how bright it is and how we're not for sale and what it is they were doing and how we're focusing on who we are and we're going to keep reinvesting in our people. We immediately implemented some initiatives that had been a long time coming like [Indiscernible] didn't exist in Las Vegas, should have. And so there are simple things like that that we've initiated. We've initiated some leadership development programs for line level staff that want to then make it to supervisor and supervisor to manager. We've rolled that out in a big way because we want to continue to provide opportunities for our people to grow. So really what we're doing is just reminding everybody that we are Wynn. We're very strong and the future is better than the past, no matter what the media likes to say.
Stephen Grambling:
That's helpful color. One last if I can sneak it in for Craig. On the Vegas strength can you provide any additional color on what drove not only the quarter but as we look further out whether it's five I guess in the quarter the types of game or customer base for example, is it primarily baccarat or international customers versus leisure or convention spillover?
Matthew Maddox:
Actually I'd like Maurice Wooden, our Property President to grab that.
Stephen Grambling:
Perfect.
Maurice Wooden:
So I mean, yes, to continue on from first quarter strength to the rest of the year. We have a very very healthy convention base throughout the rest of this year and I actually if you look at 2019, we're significantly outpacing 2019 numbers already. As far as the business goes on the casino side, we continue to see great strength on the international front especially our Far East and our European markets. We're very stable in our domestic markets and last year we had a record slot performance with respect our slot the numbers on the casino floor and we're facing very similar to last year's performance. So, our business trend here looks very healthy. And our base of business is very healthy this year forward and into 2019.
Stephen Grambling:
All super helpful. Best of luck this year.
Matthew Maddox:
One other thing I'd like to point out in Las Vegas, if you look at our non-gaming numbers and it doesn't look like that the other piece outside of hotel is up very much. There's a reason. Our retail revenues were down almost 20% but that's because of a change in strategy. We've been moving out of operating unprofitable retail stores and moving into experts in retail and leasing that out. So while our revenues in retail were down almost 20% our operating income in that department was up almost 10% for the quarter. So those are things that wouldn't be transparent in the press release but moves that we continue to make internally.
Stephen Grambling:
Helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Thank you, Mr. Grambling. Next we have Mr. David Katz from Jefferies. Your line is open.
David Katz :
Hi. Congratulations on the quarter. I wanted to ask about Macau specifically and just not the capital allocation strategy. There was a press report, I'm not asking you to confirm or deny it, but it did suggest a share repurchase effort. If you could talk through your capital allocation priorities specifically in Macau, because you did indicate in your prepared remarks about some spending on the Peninsula, you could talk through that would be helpful? Thank you.
Craig Billings:
Hey, David, it's Craig. I'll start and then I'll pass it to Matt. So as I mentioned earlier in the Q&A that share repurchase authorization that we're seeking is purely procedural and is done by most all Hong Kong companies and is not reflective in any way of intent. You actually look at our peers and their filings and see very very similar proposals.
Matthew Maddox:
The capital allocation strategy at Macau is to continue to focus on investment and non-gaming amenities that will drive additional customers to Macau and accelerating the design of those and those investments because we feel like there's great opportunity there. And we'll continue to always revisit our dividend policy there relative to our free cash flow.
David Katz :
Right. And just one more, given the strength in Las Vegas and your outlook in Las Vegas and the opportunities that you have there some which are underway and others that are land across the street. How you're thinking about your domestic presence since specifically in Nevada relative to the other opportunities that are out there, how would you sort of qualitatively rank that?
Matthew Maddox:
We are internally big believers in Las Vegas. I think the future of Las Vegas is very bright. What it is that we build will be consistent with the Wynn brand and with luxury and with the customer that we have been focused on for the last 15 years. So we're moving forward with lagoon and we are reevaluating what our next development opportunity should be, but we are moving forward with ideas for a new development opportunity whether it on lagoon or across the street, because over the next number of years we are believers in Las Vegas. What we done in Macau is just accelerate a lot of the ideas that we've been working on and begin to try to move that forward in more expedited basis. And then we're always looking at international development. So if something comes up like a Japan or pick another place that has great rules and regulations and is a large opportunity and is potentially better returns than the company we'll have to look at and shift its focus. But for now we're monitoring all three and aggressively pursuing all three.
David Katz :
Right. And if I can just ask one housekeeping question, Craig, are we going to get at some point sort of 2Q and 3Q, 4Q pro formas under the new format. Is that something that may appear in the Q or in an 8-K?
Craig Billings:
David, we'll talk you after this call about that. We're going to walk you through the changes and give you a sense for what it does primarily to EBITDA margins where it has a modest kind of 1 to 200 basis point impact in Macau.
David Katz :
Understood. I'll look forward to the walk and thank you for taking my questions.
Craig Billings:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you, Mr. Katz. Next we have Robin Farley from UBS. Your line is open.
Robin Farley:
Great. Most of my questions have been asked already. Maybe just to clarify because in your opening remarks you talked about March 2020 still being the date, so would the only thing going forward right now as planned in Vegas as the convention center? And then you're kind of stepping back from active construction on the lagoon to kind of reevaluate the scope and timing in budget and that may or may not expect that could end up falling behind doing something with the former Ellen Parcell [ph] is that the right way to think about what sort of actively going forward versus just kind of actively being considered?
Matthew Maddox:
No, no, that's not the right way to think about it. So the convention centers underway. We got $35 million out of that budget and enhance the customer experience. The lagoon is underway. So that is going to be targeted as an amenity for our 4700 rooms here at Wynn Las Vegas that will reinvent daytime activity in Las Vegas. I don't say that lightly. We're going to have watercraft, great water sports, beachfront, we're going to have some restaurants and some bars. It's going to be a really fun place to be for our customers. The next multibillion-dollar development of new hotel rooms, new restaurant, the full integrated resort that is what we are examining right now, before that was on the lagoon and being programmed as phase 1B. That's what we are re-examining to decide, do we want to focus there or do we want to focus across the street for the next resort.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Now that's helpful. And then for the lagoon that is going forward is the budget and timeframe for that the same as when it was last discussed a few months ago?
Matthew Maddox:
It is. It is.
Robin Farley:
Okay. All right. Great. Thank you.
Matthew Maddox:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you. And next we have Thomas Allen from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thomas Allen:
Hi. So, on the Macau accelerated investments, how you're thinking about the return on investment on those dollars spent? And then will there be any for modeling purposes will there will be any renovation impacts for the short term? Thanks.
Matthew Maddox:
We're not going to quantify what the returns on those will be because it's really about adding to the overall integrated resort and keeping our customers longer. Clearly we think the returns are going to be strong. In terms of renovation I know the teams working carefully with the Encore room tower remodel, because it's one of the most popular room products in all of Macau, to ensure that we're not jeopardizing business. I mean, that tower runs at over 95% occupancy. So, taking rooms out to remodel is a delicate dance and we're working through that now to try to make sure we minimize the impact on the business.
Ian Coughlan:
It's also a soft refurbishment, so we can manage that very effectively. We did it with the Wynn Tower. We don't foresee it hurting occupancy too much.
Thomas Allen:
Very helpful. And then just a follow-up on Macau. How are you thinking about continuing to ramp-up that comp mix at Palace? Where do you see the potential opportunity and any other metrics you could give us around -- you talked about bringing in even higher quality customers than you had been bringing in? So, any more color there would be really helpful. Thank you.
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. Linda and Ian, why don't you talk about the comp mix in the hotel?
Ian Coughlan:
Well, as I addressed earlier, we've listed the number of rooms at Wynn Palace that are casino-related, some 53% in the first quarter last year to 73% in the first quarter of this year. So, we continue to have space in the property to bring more high-end customers in, casino high end customers. So, that's our opportunity. As the property gets more familiar with players, we have a lot more repeat business, new customers are being introduced, all the marketing efforts we're making are bearing fruit. So, we just continue the things that we're doing. We believe that we're still on lift-off and ramping up.
Linda Chen:
Also, actually, the quality of our room product is really the top in the market. So, we're able to progressively move our customer up to even the next level of room and suite products that they haven't experienced before. So, we have the penthouse and the villas, and those are actually new, if you may, experience for a lot of the premium mass customers. So, we've been able to progressively increase their flight based on the facility that they get to experience.
Ian Coughlan:
It may be a good opportunity for Ciaran to talk about the strength of mass at Wynn Macau as well. And one of the key focus is just to not cannibalize Wynn Macau.
Ciaran Carruthers:
So, at Wynn Macau, we're obviously seeing continued growth in the mass business despite the gravitational pull of Cotai product segment. And we've done that -- obviously, we've been running very, very high utilization of our room product and casino for a long time where about 94% or 95% of our rooms are used by the casino that really, for us, has been a better yield. And the quality of the customers there and the market has seen -- has done exceptionally good job in the optimization strategy, getting better and better quality customers into that room and move in a lot of the business that we had previously seen, not lodging with us but staying in these -- in the hotel rooms. And just in case, not to cannibalize our business. Not moving anything across the Wynn Palace unnecessarily. We have a lot of customers that have gone across there, and now customers that enjoy both properties, customers that have been Cotai customers that have now moved to Wynn Palace, enjoying the Wynn experience and have moved across the Wynn Macau. So, for us, it's really been about utilizing and optimizing the quality of the customer in the room.
Linda Chen:
Also, where we actually experienced downtown at Wynn Macau is we've been able to leverage the facility at Wynn Palace to reactivate a lot of our inactive customers that we lost from Wynn Macau to the Cotai market. So, once after our Wynn Palace property is available, we actually have been reintroducing our company and brand to those customers. So, now they've come across both properties. So, Wynn Macau has experienced a lot of, if you may, reactivation customer that hasn't visited in the past couple of years.
Matthew Maddox:
Okay. Thanks.
Thomas Allen:
If I could just one quick follow-up. So, I guess, Ian, you said 73% comp, but Ciaran highlighted that at the Peninsula; it's 94% to 95%. I mean, is that the long-term opportunity?
Ian Coughlan:
That is the long-term opportunity. If every room at Wynn Palace goes to a casino customer and one with a high field, that's where we want to be.
Matthew Maddox:
But the Cotai mix is different than Peninsula. So, we're not going to start setting targets for the Cotai room mix to be the same as the Peninsula. That, as you know, Tom is just the wrong thing to do. So, we'll continue to increase our room mix in an appropriate way so that we're maximizing the bottom-line.
Thomas Allen:
Good. Thank you all.
Matthew Maddox:
Next question.
Operator:
Thank you. Next we have Anil Daswani from Citi. Your line is open.
Anil Daswani:
Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Couple of things, first of all, could you give us an update on any timelines for the 11 acres of additional land that you guys have over a Wynn Palace. Is there any time line that you could suggest or CapEx that you could suggest for what you plan to do with that?
Matthew Maddox:
No, its too early, we are in beginnings of the conceptualization phase. We're actually bringing in some of the leading global designers and people in the animatronic world that we work with them in the past. They were actually responsible for the Lake of Dreams here in Las Vegas and Prosperity of Tree in Macau to start to conceptualize some really interesting non-gaming amenities. But we're at the beginning of that and it will be a number of quarters before we're able to articulate it.
Anil Daswani:
Okay. And the second thing Matt, could you give us some more granularity on Japan. Are you looking at Osaka, are you looking at Yokohama. What type of CapEx are you guys thinking? You'd be willing to commit, I know couple of others have already commented that they're prepared to invest up to trillion yen, is it a similar commitment that Wynn's prepared to make to that Japanese market?
Matthew Maddox:
We never lead with the number without knowing the location, all the rules in play, what the consortium looks like and what the expected returns are. So, clearly anybody can throw out a trillion yen and back into an ROI that make sense. But until we know those things we're not going to be putting out budgets based on thin air. So what we're doing is working carefully with the cities and the Tokyo Bay region and Osaka explaining our qualifications. What it is that we do, and working on partnerships to move forward in either one of those markets?
Anil Daswani:
Thanks, Matt.
Matthew Maddox:
Sure.
Operator:
Thank you, Mr. Daswani. And there are no further questions.
Matthew Maddox:
Okay. Thank you very much everybody. We look forward to speaking after the call.
Operator:
Thank you all for participating in today's conference. You may disconnect your line and have a great day or great evening.
Executives:
Craig Billings - CFO, Principal Accounting Officer & Treasurer Stephen Wynn - Founder, Chairman & CEO Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau) SA & Wynn Macau Limited Matthew Maddox - President
Analysts:
Joseph Greff - JPMorgan Chase & Co. Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch David Katz - Jefferies LLC Rebecca Stone - Goldman Sachs Group Robin Farley - UBS Investment Bank Harry Curtis - Nomura Securities Co. Ltd.
Operator:
Good morning. My name is Nicole, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2017 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. It is now my pleasure to hand the conference over to Mr. Craig Billings, the Chief Financial Officer. Sir, please go ahead.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, Operator. Good morning, everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Maurice Wooden and Ian Coughlan. Also on the line are other members of management from Macau, Las Vegas and Boston. I want to remind you that we'll be making forward-looking statements under safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Steve Wynn.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, I guess, everybody saw the numbers. So my comments about them and any relevant -- any other comments going forward. We have said for the past two years, as the Macau market experienced some vicissitude that the fundamentals in China, as in terms of its business opportunity for our company, were profoundly simple and uncomplicated. I guess, it's the reason why when the stock got ridiculously oversold 1.5 or 2 years ago. I started to increase my position. I stress to people who were interested in our company and who invest in gaming that the Macau market is still only touching a tiny percentage of the potential market that's there. And as these hotels gain public acceptance, we notice the really important changes. For example, we're seeing now, since New Year's Eve, we thought we have a postseason -- post-holiday slump. We are seeing midweek business in the mass casino in the $3 million and $4 million a day level during the midweek periods. So the depth and the foundational strength of that market is real. We are also encouraged -- we have been encouraged by the government in conversations with them to file our plans for Phase 2, which we're working on now. As a matter of fact, everybody from Macau is here for design sessions with me this week. That's why Ian is at the table with me instead of being on the phone from China to develop our 11 acres of adjacent property on the north and south of our existing Cotai land. We've always been bullish about Macau. The Wall Street and the investment community has had different moods about this. I remember that back in 2002 when we had the concession, but of course, has not yet started construction, and we discussed the potential of Macau, the value that was placed upon our IPO was with -- in relation to that concession was zero. And I don't blame people for having a little trouble getting long-term views on China back in 2002, but I think the picture is pretty clear today. Having said that, we are coming up -- operating at almost $4 million level in operating profit per day during December and the end of November. And we're functioning a little higher than $5 million a day in January. And we're headed towards Chinese New Year. And during that period, a couple of significant things happen up here we can stick on the short term, which always seem to be fun on these calls. We're told that MGM, our neighbor, is going to finally commence operations in the next week or two, at least partially, which will remove some of the obstacles that separate them from us. Unfortunately, our neighbor on the other side, SJM is still months away, but the Monorail is coming along, but we have been engaged in a very important construction remodeling issue on the whole south side of the Cotai casino, which has constrained our operation in spite of the good performance it has experienced. And that constraint and that new restaurant and all the related stuff on that side of the casino will be open in a few days and will be available for Chinese New Year in few weeks. We have a highly anticipated, and this availability of the space and the restaurant and other things that attendant to it, and we're excited to have this construction period with its construction walls and everything finally over. So we're looking for a very exciting February with the Chinese New Year and our new Red 8 and our new space on the south side of Cotai. Those are my thoughts with regard to the current situation. The bridge is coming along and all of that sort of thing. I think most of you know that about that. And a lot of things mature in '19, if I'm not correct, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
The bridge, the light rail. We have been hemmed in on four sides. Even the light rail on our fourth side, because we have streets on all four sides, the light rail yard is on our fourth side. The light rail goes around two sides of our property and stops in the middle of it, right at our gondola station. And then we have construction after that with SJM and MGM. So all these things are looking very nice for us. With regard to Las Vegas, we closed the golf course at the end of the year, and we began removing trees and doing the grading for our new convention and meeting space of 450,000 or 460,000 feet that we need very badly now because we're outgrowing some of our shows. The lagoon begins and are planning for the rest -- and our drawings proceed for the rest of the adjacent property on the west end of our 1600-foot long lake, that is 700 feet or 600 feet wide, 26 acres. For comparison purposes, for those of you who visualize things in Las Vegas, the water feature in front of Bellagio is eight acres, at this body of water and its one mile long circumferential boardwalk is little over three times the size of Bellagio and offers tremendous developmental land on the beaches on the boardwalk. We'll begin on the west side, as we have already, to develop hotels, gaming, restaurants and public attractions. We have begun that process. But even as we've finished the drawings and execute the structures, there will be at the east end across the street from the Las Vegas Visitors and Convention Bureau, still another 60 acres, 65 acres undeveloped property with beaches and boardwalk frontage and pinched between our beach and boardwalk and lake, and the Las Vegas 3 million feet of convention Space. Our new 460,000-foot building is directly opposite the Sands 2-million-odd or may be close to 2 million to 3 million feet for exhibit space. And so we're all connected. The folks at the Sands and ourselves are arranging our connections so that between the Sands and the Wynn, we will be talking about almost 15,000 to 20,000 rooms before we're done with over 6 million feet of exhibit space and hundreds of acres of recreational opportunities and attractions that will be unique, not a theme park or we're not competing with Disney. We're creating a new kind of experience that is addressed to the modern era taking advantage of technology and all the rest. Included in that will be the connected 2,000 or 3,000 rooms that will go across the street at what we call West Wynn, the old side of the Frontier Hotel that we bought in December for $336 million. The previous discussions about Alon, I think that's what it was called, were on 34 acres. We have 38 because we increased the size of the property by buying the remaining land from Phil Raffan [ph], the 3.6 or 3.7 acres that were between the Alon side and the Trump Hotel. So our site is bigger. It's 1300 feet on The Strip. It goes from The Strip back to Frank Sinatra Boulevard. And as we mentioned in the press release, it now takes our total assembly of real estate to 280 acres from Paradise Road to Frank Sinatra Boulevard. It's almost a mile from east to west. It's 3,000 feet -- at 3,300 feet and its widest, and it goes down to a little narrower at the other end. It surrounded by over 6 million feet of exhibit space, 1,000-acre feet of private water rights, and it will add to the over 10 million feet of development that exist today at Wynn and Encore. That's the big picture, and we're going to attempt in the next 4, 5 months to have renderings that show the entire development of the 280 acres, which incidentally our average cost is just about 2.7 million an acre, and it also includes land across Street to support the primary development in the middle. And that's pretty much the story of Las Vegas. The third thing that's probably on my sheet of discussion would be Boston. We were ahead of 34-month construction contract with Suffolk Construction, John Fisher's company. His people are among the most talented and collected construction folks we've ever dealt with, I'm happy to report. And they are on target, a little ahead of schedule, a couple of weeks may be, of course, we got to wait and see how the snow comes, but we are right on target. I think we're going to top out the building -- the hotel in the next 5 or 6 weeks before the end of February. And the steel and structure is up for all of the podium buildings, meeting rooms, ballrooms, gambling and all the rest retail and food and beverage. And we'll open up in May or June, 15 or 16 months from now. And I think everybody in Boston is excited about it. The entry threshold was rather high and expensive between our neighboring communities and the obligations imposed by the statute. Getting up and into construction and getting underway was quite an involved process and took many, many months and a few hundred million dollars. But once in Boston, it's a wonderful community. Everybody is very supportive. The hospitality industry comes together every month. They support one another. They've been very -- they reached out to us and are very welcoming as has the governor and city officials and university officials. I think they're proud to have us there and we're doing it up first class. Largest private investment in the history of the Commonwealth, and we're going to be the second biggest employer in the Commonwealth behind Mass General Hospital. That's pretty much it. All of the guys and gals are here to answer questions, so have at it.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions]. Your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
Steve, you touched on this in your prepared comments referencing the midweek business here in the 1Q. Obviously, you saw mass volumes improve sequential growth in the fourth quarter, exceeded the growth rate in the 3Q. Can you just talk about what do you think is driving the improving mass volumes? Obviously, VIP has been strong for a while, but it seems -- mass seems to be accelerating here. What do you think is driving that?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, again, we're not the Chamber of Commerce or the government. We are focused on our own stuff. And I'm going to -- Ian is sitting next to me, I'm happy to say, we're here for design work this week with the whole Macau operation in Las Vegas. But I'll give you my take on it and then, I think, Ian's is even probably more relevant at the moment. But look, we took 2.5 years or 3 years to design Wynn Palace. We took that much time to design Wynn Macau. And we weren't just sitting around having coffee. We really grind on little things. There is -- I have said this in conference call after conference call that God lives in the details in our business. Our ability to anticipate the nuance concerning the habits and the preferences of our guests to anticipate that both with our buildings and with our training cannot be exaggerated. The importance of that is critical. And what happens is our buildings tend to gain momentum over time, which is why Las Vegas had its biggest year in history, $520-odd-million. It's that in my view. Now the guy that operates, he is sitting right here.
Ian Coughlan:
The market clearly lifted in VIP and significantly in mass. Wynn Palace was perfectly primed to take advantage of that. Both our properties are designed for premium mass and VIP in addition to other market segments. And we were ready and waiting. When the market lifted, we took a bigger share than everybody else, but our properties deserves that.
Stephen Wynn:
If you want to understand what we're doing, all of you that are statistically oriented. Take a look at market shares before we open a property and market shares after we open a property. I mean, the Palace hotel snapped up market share. Gobbled up market share. We went from 9 to 17 I think that's...
Ian Coughlan:
That's right, we're 17%.
Stephen Wynn:
Some of the other companies have open places and not experienced anything like that kind of growth. It's always been the case whether it was Mirage, Golden Nugget, Bellagio, Wynn and Encore in Las Vegas, even Beau Rivage in Mississippi or the Golden Nugget in Atlantic City. There is a definite pattern. We deal to a part of the market that tends to lead in good times and not suffer quite as bad in bad times. And that's one of the reasons why as a company and as a Board of Directors and the management team, we're so dedicated to the sector of the market that we cater to.
Joseph Greff:
Maybe this is more of a technical question for Ian or for Craig. Can you discuss or remind us why mass hold percentage between Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau is about 500 bps apart? Is there is a big premium mass mix delta there or some other reason? And that's all for me.
Craig Billings:
Well, Joe, as you know, the denominator is a little bit impacted by cage drop in Macau. So it's really difficult to do an apples-to-apples comparison.
Stephen Wynn:
On the mass, it's hard because they use the cage. It's very different than Las Vegas.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Steve, you talked a lot about some of the development initiatives and the vision for Las Vegas. Could you comment a little bit, obviously the balance sheet has got meaningfully stronger. Macau is throwing off significant cash flows and will continue to, could you talk a little bit about how you're thinking about the capital structure at this point and over the next 12 to 18 months?
Stephen Wynn:
I think about the capital structure with my Board of Directors constantly. We love a strong balance sheet, especially at a time when this company is growing as rapidly as it's about to grow. I think we're going to see Japan in the next 12 or 14 months sort of come into season. But the development of our own existing properties, we have so much potential that I think the balance sheet strength is a critical subject for continual review. And we have always been conservative that way. If I'd been a little less conservative, I would have gone public when Sheldon Adelson did and add more money today, but I have always taken a very sort of, don't let anything really rock the boat approach. So we're going to continue in that vein. And it's a subject of constant review among ourselves in operations and on a regular basis with the board. So that's my attitude towards it.
Carlo Santarelli:
Fair enough. That's certainly helpful. And then just in terms of the time line for, obviously, you stated Boston sometime mid-2019. With respect to the Las Vegas developments in terms of the Lake and the towers there and then you obviously mentioned the 38 acres across the street. How are you thinking about the time line for discovery around cost for those projects as well as construction starts and completion?
Stephen Wynn:
Here is what I think. I think that we -- I look for the answer to that question in our history. We win more money than anybody else in America in a casino, I believe. And we're profitable. We've always been the leader in the revenue generated in casino rooms in the city -- in the state since 1989, but never at any of my hotels that I've been involved in ever had over -- had as much as 50% gaming revenue. It's always been more than in non-gaming. And that as we have grown and got bigger and bigger, the lopsidedness of that ratio has gotten to the 65-35 basis, 60-40, 65-35, non-gaming over gaming. And I love that because there are 2 factors to that. A, it's the non-gaming that produces all the fancy gamblers and high income type of patrons. So what I want to do, because so much of our business evens 35% of it, I want to keep developing the non-gaming aspects of our business. Remember, hotels are extremely profitable. That's one of our best operating divisions. With our room rates, we operate at 50% to 60% margins in the hotels. And the more hotel rate we get, every dollar goes to the bottom line. Every additional dollar of hotel revenue is 100% profit, except even the room tax is added on. So I want to add more rooms. We have 160,000 rooms in Las Vegas. Let's get real simple about this. And the town is occupied about 80-odd-percent. Now if I add 3,000 rooms, 1,500 or 2,000 of our own right here on the boardwalk and another 2,000 or 2,500 across the street, we go to 8,000-odd rooms out of 170,000. But I have a right to expect that any weakness in the market will be felt at the older, weaker end of the market, not in the strongest. My board is going to see a room next week that we built that is going to be the bedroom going forward. It's 650 square feet, you walk in the middle of the room. The window is 24 feet wide. It's 27 feet to the -- from the door to the window. You walk into foyer that's 6 feet wide. On your left is a bathroom for the gentlemen with a big shower, a sink, a john and a closet. On the right of foyer is the ladies bathroom with a shower or a tub, that's a john and sink and a closet. We have a his and her bathrooms that qualifies as a suite according to Forbes Travel Guide. You walk straight ahead on your left on the left wall of the 24-foot wide room is the headboard and the bed and the desk. Straight ahead is the 24-foot window, an enormous window. And on the right is the sitting area, the living sitting area with a couch and chairs, and 80-inch television set. Now that's our room. When you have the best hotel room in Las Vegas, when you're building all suite and give people all suites from $400 a night or $500 a night, you know what our average rates now are creeping up into the mid-threes. By the time these buildings are done in the next three year or so, we'd be getting $400. There is nowhere in the world you can get a room like that. And in the town of 160,000 rooms, in the middle of 6 million square feet of convention space and at least 500,000 or 600,000 feet of our own, in terms of ballrooms and meeting rooms at the highest caliber, I'm feeling pretty safe. And I'm going to get those damn buildings up as fast as I can, because I want to capture more of the absolutely inevitable visitor and tourist traffic that Las Vegas will experience in the next 15 to 20 years. You have to ask yourself, investment community, do you believe that Las Vegas, Nevada, will for the next decade or two continue to be a major destination city in The United States of America and the world. I think Orlando is 78 million, I think New York is 64, 63, we're 43 and climbing. If you believe that those 800,000-odd people are going to continue to come here, then you can absolutely be fearless about accommodating these people at the best level and giving the highest level of value. Anybody who doesn't understand that is missing the boat. And personally, that's fine with me. If the stocks low, we buy it. But that's where it stands. That's the fundamental thinking of this company. This is a great city to be in. It's a great city to develop in. Naturally, there are competitive issues, and we can always be affected by regulatory irregularities and then unexpected twists and turns by regulators. But things have been pretty steady here for a long time. And with the Trump administration, with Republicans in Washington, we are seeing this fabulous renaissance. This tax bill -- this tax bill with one-year depreciation on both new and used equipment, the lowering of the corporate rate. Later this year, as we -- experiences, I'm going to give my employees another raise, a bonus just like all the other companies. Any attempt to vilify or criticize this tax bill is a fruitless and pointless exercise. The impact of that tax bill I can tell you is a tsunami of business activity and growth in America. And remember, who are we out here, we are people that catered businesses and people who have discretionary income. The Congress and the Trump administration, President Trump, has just given America and companies room to grow, room to run their own lives instead of taking the money and deciding what's best for us in Washington like we had for eight years. This whole idea of a tax break, of lowering taxes for corporations and for individuals is the United States government under Republican control with the Trump administration saying, go ahead people, we think you know what to do with your money better than we do. And I'm not trying to sound like a Republican commercial, although I'm happy to do one. But I am pointing out that a major recipient of this sort of mentality in the government is Las Vegas, and similarly, conversely, I predicted it and it was true that we were victimized by the wet blanket over-regulatory oppressiveness of the Obama administration. All of us out here suffered. We were -- if you're a Republican you were attacked by Fin Sen [ph], everybody was in our face, and it was affecting our ability to pay our employees and to run our business. Remember when Obama said, don't be going out to Las Vegas on these junkets, meaning conventions. Well, everything is changed. And we're going to ride this with this company at full speed, end of speech.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Steve, maybe just to stick with the same kind of same thing on tax reform, but obviously there was a big impact on the company's financials literally to this quarter and some movements on, I think, deferred taxes. Could you just walk us through at a high-level sort of, what's the impact on go forward kind of cash generation by the business with tax reform for Wynn specifically? And then what is the sort of reinvestment rate you are considering or thinking about as you think about deploying some of those extra funds?
Stephen Wynn:
Matt, why don't you?
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. The valuation allowances is related to some deferred taxes assets that we had on our books, I think. Most companies in America are going through this exercise right now. Because as Steve pointed out, tax bill is very beneficial for everyone in the U.S. And that was really the guidance is not clear, but that was where we came out with EY and our accountants and we're going to continue to work through that over the year.
Craig Billings:
It's very mechanical, Sean. So very accounting oriented. No real change in terms of our tax position, our cash tax position.
Stephen Wynn:
It will save us some money.
Shaun Kelley:
As that will be on a go forward basis as well, generally speaking?
Craig Billings:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. And then maybe just to turn back to Macau then, you guys clearly characterized what you're seeing on the mass market side, which sounds exceptional and you're continuing to take share. Can you just tell us a little bit what you're seeing on the VIP side there was? I think people are surprised that the mix they saw in Q4 in terms of mass growth accelerating and VIP decelerating, are you seeing that in your business and what are your junket partners telling you right now?
Stephen Wynn:
The junkets remain strong for us. The market gyrates constantly and people get nervous with a bad week. The junkets are talking very positively going forward. There is a lot of anecdotal happiness about Chinese New Year around the corner. There is a lot of money coming in. So we're looking forward to continuing strong business in the junkets and VIP and on premium mass and mass in general. And as we continue to modify Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace, we'll continue to capture more and more of the market.
Stephen Wynn:
I think one of the really modern absurdities is the people that wait to see what the monthly number is from the DGIC and then immediately start play in the stocks as if they were in a casino themselves. If I can do anything constructive, I'm going to say, if anybody's interested in vesting the gaming industry, do not, do not, I repeat, bet against Macau. You will be losing your money.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions]. Your next question comes from the line of David Katz with Jefferies.
David Katz:
I wanted to ask about the Palace in relation to Wynn Macau. And I recall, I guess, it was nearly two years ago, you laid out some potential scenarios where the Palace could reach a level, a certain level of EBITDA and I believe the number was about 630? Can you talk about what has changed structurally within the market or the property that we can measure against that number today? And in particular, when I look at the Wynn Macau and the margin level that it's achieving, there is still a reasonably wide differential between what the Wynn Macau is doing and the Palace? And is the Palace built and structured to achieve the same kind of margin level that Wynn Macau is over time?
Stephen Wynn:
Yes. So we've answered this on the last call, but over time, we hope to get Wynn Palace to the margin levels of Wynn Macau, but what people have forgotten about very quickly is in the fall of 2016, we transferred 1,500 people from Wynn Macau to Wynn Palace. And we had a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity to downsize without affecting the quality of the product or the service. And that helped the margins of Wynn Macau substantially 2 to 2.5 points. And eventually, Wynn Palace will build efficiency, but that's not the focus right now. The focus is on supreme guest service and experience as customers try our property. That's what we're known for. Efficiencies come later. We're driving quality right now.
David Katz:
But you mentioned that we -- one stop, we could make $630 million at the Palace. Did I understand you correctly, sir?
Craig Billings:
Yes, yes.
Stephen Wynn:
We'll blow right through that.
David Katz:
Okay. And if I may ask one follow-up? One of the questions that investors raised with us and I realize it's -- it may not be easy to answer in this forum and it may be off in the future is that there are concessions that technically expire at some point in time. Is there anything that you can share with us or tell us to help us think about in the context that we do have high confidence in Macau and the regulatory structures around it, is there anything that you can tell us and how we should think about answering that question when it comes up about concessions expiring in 2022 and in other people's cases sooner than that?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, first of all, there is going to be specific guidance according to announcements, comments made by the government -- the Chief Executive in his testimony before the legislature. In calendar year '18, there will be specific guidance because one of the concessionaires expires in '20, at least on paper. However, on a larger sense, we enjoy a good deal of confidence, and we have been given reason to have confidence that our businesses will continue after the initial concession expiration dates. That confidence is based upon the kinds of conversations we have with the government. But on even a larger sense, this very situation was faced by the other special administrative region, Hong Kong. I'll remind everybody that the status of Hong Kong and Macau in the Chinese firmament is that each of those cities is a special administrative region abbreviated to SAR. And in the SAR at Hong Kong, the same situation existed much earlier than it did in Macau. The turnover took place, leases on buildings and properties expired and the central government seamlessly extended those things and accommodated a stable, stable commercial environment in Hong Kong and has done so in the transition of Macau. The only thing that the central government of Beijing did with the transition from Portuguese Macau to its current status was to buttress and support that city and its fundamental business and roots in any way possible. The prosperity of Macau post the Chinese takeover in '99 and the pre-Mainland Chinese concession period is stark. What China stands for is stability. They don't like to disrupt things. They do like foreign investment. When we first came, I was invited to the capital to [indiscernible] where the center of power is in Beijing. And at that time, the vice premier invited my wife and I as part of their protocol to welcome foreign investment. The atmosphere in China has not changed. And Macau, we are so stitched into that community with our employees and our company that we feel comfortable in the situation. But on the other hand, we do not speak for the government nor can we affirmatively anticipate what they may do. But like anything else, judge people by their past performance. Human beings tend to have an element of consistency to their behavior. And on that basis, we're pretty relaxed about our future and spend our time, and I have encouraged as recently as last few months in meetings with the government to proceed with planning of our Phase 2 expansions. I know that Mr. Adelson feels the same way I do, because I have this conversation with Sheldon frequently. We talk about matters in Macau with MGM and with the Sands on a regular basis. And I think all three of us feel the same way. Jim Murren, Sheldon himself. I know Rob Goldstein shares our feeling on that. How about you and Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
Absolutely, yes.
Stephen Wynn:
I mean, you want to be really candid about this. We don't want to hold any information that we don't have. We want to share. I know how important this question is to everybody, and it should be. And Craig, any of us want to -- is Linda on the call?
Craig Billings:
No. She's actually flying out here.
Unidentified Company Representative:
Oh, she is on her way here? well, anyway, the boss is here.
Stephen Wynn:
Is Karen here?
Unidentified Company Representative:
Karen is not here. Just myself and Frederick.
Stephen Wynn:
Okay, so I got Frederick and you.
Unidentified Company Representative:
Matt, Craig and I.
Stephen Wynn:
That's the latest and the deepest response we can give you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Rebecca Stone:
I want to follow up on your comments about developing the 38 acres in Vegas. You mentioned, wanting to be open as soon as possible to capture the growth there, but you also referred to it taking 2 to 3 years of design for the properties in Macau. So I guess, just wondering if you could put any rough time frame on design and any sort of preliminary thoughts about budget?
Stephen Wynn:
Sure, Robin. First of all, with regard to the area known as the golf course land. DeRuyter Butler and Roger Thomas and the rest of his -- and operations have been involved with the design of the golf course for over two years already. And that led to our satisfaction and the beginning of construction. I have already started the analysis and the planning of the property across the street. The West Wynn property. And I'm here for continuing design conversations on Macau and our adjacent 11 acre developments. Sometimes things move faster than others. One of the really great things about the property, the West Wynn property, Wynn West, whatever is across street, I'm not going to call the Frontier anymore. And I'm certainly not going to call it Alon that was an important project. I'm going to say this, when you are adding to the existing 10 million feet of Wynn, you get a tremendous opportunity to piggyback many of the things that are already built because it's only a 100 feet across the street. We are going to connect with an air-conditioned umbilical hallway. We built the acceptance ramp, the platform and the escalators for that on our side of the street when we built the beach club, there is escalators and a big acceptance platform between Wynn and Encore, where we're going to connect to the property across the street. I always held the conviction that we'd end up with it. So I built the place to connect, when I built the beach club. It's there already. And so what we're going to do across the street is going to go rather quickly, because I have been giving a thought for a long time and sketching with it. And so I don't think that the design development period is going to be very long on the Wynn West property. And the design process, the creative design process on this eastern development on the golf course has been two years in process. A lot of thought. Tremendous modeling. There were so many options on the golf course because of our water rights. So many possibilities. We exhausted all of them, especially with an eye to how we could monetize everything. Make sure that made a lot of money for us. Budgets, I think that was the last part. We have budgeted our building that's currently -- that we're doing the grading for now, our convention and meeting building that was, Matt, was it 460,000, 480,000 feet?
Matthew Maddox:
460,000 feet.
Stephen Wynn:
460,000 square feet of ballrooms, meeting rooms and convention and catering offices and that sort of thing. And our budget. And we got prices on it and we know where we stand on that. As the final budget on the lagoon is awaiting, we just finished giving a final short plan, meaning the shape and the nuance of the in and the outs, the exact final frozen shoreline shape to the people at Crystal Lagoons. When their drawing comes back, we've got a pretty clear idea what is going to cost. We will have a specific bid from our contractor for that. So as each phase of the development proceeds, we wait till we get complete working drawings. We bid the working drawings. And when we're satisfied with them, we start construction. And we don't start construction until we have a firm price based upon technical drawings of at least 80%. Robin, if you're asking me, I think your question is specific in general, we won't start any job until we have a final price based upon technical drawings. On the other hand, you're wondering if I got any idea what it's going to cost? Am I reading it right?
Robin Farley:
Just a ballpark, yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, Matt, what's our current budget on the convention building about?
Matthew Maddox:
About $350 million, just for the convention building.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes. And we think the lagoon is going to be somewhere between $40 million and $50 million. And that's an outside number.
Matthew Maddox:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
The 1,500 rooms, casino and the five restaurants in -- I think of the place back here is an oasis, Paradise Park is sort of an oasis. That tower, we're not ready. We haven't finished final -- we haven't given our building estimators and all that stuff for preliminary budgeting. We haven't given that number yet. The high-rise, we got a pretty good idea. I might have described through earlier in the conversation. Every single room in that hotel is a suite. They are all exactly alike, be that 1 bedroom and 2 bedrooms attached to them, connected. There are some villas on the podium roof, but basically, the whole hotel is a suite hotel. I don't think that I'm going to estimate that job yet. When we get into that, we're going to show everybody a drawing of everything. Elevations, from the west side of the street to Paradise Road. We're going to show everybody exactly how this little city works. This tremendous development opportunity that existed on the Desert Inn property. We saw it in 2000. We said we could be developing this for the next 20 years, and that's exactly what's going to happen. And it has more potential and opportunity than any other piece of property did in Las Vegas. We develop the west side of The Strip, all those hotels. I think, at one point, we've done everything, but Caesars between Spring Mountain Road and Tropicana. But that piece of property from The Strip going west to I-15 to Frank Sinatra Boulevard is 2,000 feet deep. On the east side of The Strip, where the Sands and the Desert Inn are, the distance from The Strip to Paradise Road is over 3,000 feet. And it's not backed up by a superhighway with no access, really accepted interchanges, it's backed up by the Las Vegas Visitors Convention Bureau and a major Street Paradise Road that is a straight shot into the door of the airport, which is a mile or two away. So the east side of The Strip has always been the most desirable side. It's why incidentally in the '50s, virtually every hotel was built on the east side of The Strip, not the west. It wasn't too much later when the Stardust, which came later, the Dunes and then finally, Caesars and the Last Frontier, but all of the original hotels from the Sahara to the Thunderbird to the Riviera to the Desert Inn to the Sands, everything was built on this side of the street because the property is so much deeper and has better access on all sides. Yes, I mean, I'm being pretty enthusiastic today about Las Vegas, but this is probably the first conference call we've had when our whole development ambitions have finally matured. We've kept ourselves sort of low key because we wanted to get the other side of The Strip. Now that we've completed our assembly, I'm excited and really having a good time sharing it with everybody, and we'll be doing a lot of that in the next few months.
Robin Farley:
That's great. Maybe just one other question. I don't know if the tax law changes have made you think about repatriating some cash back from Macau to the U.S. Is that something that would finance some of this development? Or do you feel like you need to leave cash in Macau because there might be a large payment to be made to renew the concession? I guess, how does -- how do the recent tax law changes make your think about that cash and whether you bring it back to the U.S.?
Stephen Wynn:
Robin, if you look at the footnote on our financial statement, we have always been able to bring our money back because we were in an unusual position. The only tax in Macau is an income tax based upon our gaming revenue. So we were able to get tax credit for that because we were paying the tax abroad. We got some shelter here in America. So we keep money in China to support Chinese operations, but we keep most of our money, $2.5 billion or so Matt?
Matthew Maddox:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Around at the moment, around here. So we don't have a repatriation problem. We were rather unusual and unique company because our only tax we paid abroad was income tax. And all American companies have always got the credit for income tax paid abroad. So we didn't accumulate enormous money abroad as some of the bigger companies have done. Mike, do you want to add anything to that?
Unidentified Company Representative:
No, I would just add, Robin, as a general rule, we tend not to keep a bunch of excess cash at any of our operating subsidiaries in Las Vegas or the properties in Macau either. So we patriate that and we would anticipate continuing to do so.
Operator:
Your final question comes from the line for Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
A quick follow-up on Macau. Steve, your comments about developing the 11 acres. Any initial thoughts on the interactions between you and the government on the mix between gaming, non-gaming? And what are you trying to accomplish there?
Stephen Wynn:
That's a really good question. I love it. As Ian said, we focus on a certain part of the market, and we love the niche that we occupy. We are comfortable we have had decades of experience there. The property on the south side of our development sits in full view of MGM and SJM. They look down on it. Our water feature and Lake are in the middle. And there is this big piece of property on the south side. It is my intention, with the approval and cooperation of my colleagues, and when I say it's my intention, this is a position I have come to at the urging of my colleagues. It did not initiate with me. But we have decided that we want to create a structure, and this is a non-gaming structure primarily, where every condition in the building, and we're not talking about a lot of rooms, we're talking about relatively few on the grand scale of things, a few hundred. Every room is special with terraces, courtyards, balconies, experiences from a guest point of view that are fantasy-like. We are taking the position that if we ask people to journey to us and forgo our neighbors that we have to give them a very powerful reason to do so. So we intend to plant this low-slung building of 5 or 6 stories or something like that, and that could change by 1 or 2. We intend to plant this building. I think MGM in Las Vegas and I guess, in Macau, they -- years ago, they come up with the idea of the mansion. It was a very lovely building in Las Vegas with an atrium and 20-odd rooms. And it's been very successful for them, and I know they're going to use that in Macau as well. We are taking that idea of a fantasy-like enclave of special rooms with accompanying food and beverage facilities that are experiential in a way that has not yet been tried in the hospitality business in the world. That's pretty puffy language. And ordinarily you'd discount most of it, but maybe if you consider the source of this company, we have a track record of trying things like that and pulling it off. And I assure you that we know exactly where we're going. And we think that the only place in the world so perfectly suited for this is Macau. Perfectly suited, an opportunity of a lifetime to create an enclave. I'm sure there will be some gambling in it. Rooms for people to play. You know the market, the gaming capacity of the hotels is allowed to grow at a compound rate of 3%...
Unidentified Company Representative:
Yes, I mean, it seems sort of a tight squeeze when we all opened up a few years ago. But that pressure is off because when SJM and MGM opened, that's pretty much the story. The normal increase in the growth of the tables will allow us to have much equipment as we need. Remember I also told you '16 that we had enough equipment to make the money we needed. You see our business doesn't depend on thousands of tables. Our business depends on the quality of our guests. And we're going to use our real estate to show some people some new moves. And the idea of doing something like that is really exciting for us. It turns us on. And that's why everybody is here.
Harry Curtis:
Just as a quick follow-up. Are you getting initial inputs from the government? Any guidance on what they'd like to see as well?
Stephen Wynn:
Sure. They are interested in broadening the invitation of the whole city, number one. And number two, they are interested in having the highest possible amount of advancement for local citizens within the hospitality industry. And I would say probably the second thing I mentioned may even eclipse or trump the first, the idea that the local population benefits both in carrier opportunity as well as money and living standard is a recurrent theme there, which we have recognized. We're the only company where every single company of ours is a shareholder of 1,000 shares at least. So when we say that we're going to build new hospitality accommodations that are really one-offs in the world, that appeals to them, oh, Macau will have something that no other city has. And that's really the grove that I love being in and the gang that I'm hanging with, we all love that. I mean, Ian can speak for himself, but...
Ian Coughlan:
I'm fully behind that.
Stephen Wynn:
Remember, we recruited the Senior President of our operations in China from the Peninsula Hotel. I mean, that's a tip off right there. We didn't go looking at Motel 6 a long time ago. I mean, when we look for a guy that we could take, a man already in senior leadership. I mean, if you're the General Manager of the Peninsula in Hong Kong, even if you went to Cornell or Northwest or UNLV hotel school, and you have worked for Ritz-Carlton, Mandarin Oriental, Four Seasons, Peninsula, if you work for any of those highline hospitality companies, when all those kinds of dudes get together, whoever is the GM of the Peninsula in Hong Kong is sort of the guy whose ring they kiss, I mean, that's like big status among that fraternity. And Ian had opened -- had been the Resident Manager. And then when Peninsula in Bangkok needed first aided, they sent him there and it became a big hit. When he came back, he was the GM of Peninsula, that's a long time ago. Resort gaming business now. That's what we're, so the local government likes us doing this kind of....
Stephen Wynn:
Thank you, everyone. That's the end of the conference call today.
Operator:
This does conclude today's conference. We thank you for your participation, and also that you please disconnect your lines.
Executives:
Stephen Wynn - Chairman and CEO Craig Billings - CFO Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Macau, Limited and Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A. Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Matt Maddox - President
Analysts:
Thomas Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs Joe Greff - JPMorgan Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Shaun Kelley - Bank of America David Katz - Telsey Advisory Group Robert Rossi - UBS
Operator:
Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Wynn Resorts' Third Quarter 2017 Earnings Call. My name is Ronnie, and I will be your conference operator today. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, the floor is yours.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox and Maurice Wooden. Also on the line are other members of our management from Macau, Las Vegas and Boston. I want to remind everyone on the call that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities Laws and those statements may or may not come true. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Wynn:
Hello. Well, you see the numbers they sort of speak for themselves. I guess, four of us are very happy that Las Vegas had the best third quarter in its existence since 2005 and we're particularly happy, because our non-casino revenue was so strong. And it's the predicate for the development of the golf course, which we'll be talking about today. And we're very happy with the progress of Macau. When we began building the plaza, the Palace rather and we told everybody about it. Matthew mentioned that we're going to trying get to the 1.3 billion, 1.4 billion with those two places. And we would go to from 3 million a day, when we started heading -- my goal was to get to 4 million, I'll be happy with that, before we add more stuff in Cotai, which we will. We will be adding more rooms and things like that as we go along. But we got it to 3.5 million. We've been moving every quarter. In October, we're at 4 million, a little better than 4 million a day, because we had a holiday in the month. But we're very happy with the progress. When we started, we had 9% of the market with one hotel, the Wynn Encore, 1,000 rooms downtown and now we have 16% of the market. Our ability to capture market share is clearly established and that in a manner of speaking sets us apart at least on that kind of a metric for perhaps some of the other places. At any rate, in our own closed world, we're happy with that. Again, I remind everybody that the problems that have beset the Cotai neighborhood that we are in exist as we speak. We have construction on four sites. We own the whole square, there is four roads that surround our 50 odd yard acres and the SJM is not scheduled to open till next year, that's our south side. MGM is scheduled to open some time. The hurricane set them back a little bit. But they are three or four months away from full operation, I would imagine or maybe they will open in part. But they are on our west side. And so is the monorail station, which is still not complete, but I'm happy to say that the city and the builders of the light rail are hard at it, they're doing the street, they've got the bridge open, they're going to -- the cars are about to be tested in the next several weeks the vehicles themselves. And they're headed for a 19 completion maybe they will do better, but perhaps the most egregious part of the blockade, the interference will begin to disappear as we go into the next quarter. We're hopeful of that. And the light rail, of course is on our north side as well. All of this has constrained the traffic flow into the Palace. And you can look at this two ways. You could say it's been a tough break for us to have to live with this, our first year of operation. On the other hand we're doing very well, and it portends a better -- even a better result as our neighbors get up and running and we have the benefit of their connections. And we will be building connections to them that are pedestrian safe, but we got to wait until they get finished with their own work. So that describes my view at least. Maurice is here to talk about Las Vegas. Craig and Matt can talk about the more particulars if you're interested. And then we finally find ourselves at the decision point after two years of design development on the golf course. One of the things that's been so fantastic about this development behind us is there were so many choices because we have a 1000-acre field of water that came with the Desert Inn Water Company. We have this remarkable proximity to our neighbor the Sands Expo Center and of course we have immediate proximity to the Las Vegas Convention Bureau. I think cumulated that's over 5 million almost 6 million feet of exhibit space, one of the largest conglomerations of exhibit space on the planet, and they're adjacent to us on two sides. We're going to play into that wonderful proximity with our development. But I'll give you a chance to answer questions, because I'm sure you have some and then maybe we'll flow into the other discussion. Go ahead take questions Matt. Do we have a call? Have we lost our connection?
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Thomas Allen.
Thomas Allen:
Good afternoon. So just -- so great results in Vegas and a great ramp at Palace, if we're going to have to nitpick they are going to point to Wynn Macau where it seems like you've lost some market share. Can you just discuss performance of that perhaps a little bit? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
If someone wants to nitpick, they are free to do it. Ian do you want to comment on -- we look at this one place.
Ian Coughlan:
Wynn Macau maintained market share. And if you look at the Peninsula in general, there has been a gravitational pull to Cotai and that has been dropping off while it's been growing as a market. But Wynn Macau continues to do more than a fair market share downtown. It continues to be the market leader. It came off a very, very high comparison with quarter two. But if you look at quarter one, quarter three and four last year and it had good growth. And there have been a lot of discussion about cannibalization of Wynn Macau, and there hasn't been cannibalization. And it's just getting compared to a very, very strong second quarter. If we look at October month-to-date it's bounced right back. So we're very happy with Wynn Macau.
Stephen Wynn:
So much for nitpicking. Next?
Thomas Allen:
Steve you brought up the golf course can you elaborate on that a little bit? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Two years of design development, lot of choices, we finally settled the golf course for the sake of the golfers, [bows] out on December 22nd, earth moving, tree moving and I guess you could call it construction of the buildings begins the day after New Year's on January 3rd, I think it is on Tuesday this year. And we're moving trees and doing the grading of the property so that we can get started with the foundation on the 450,000 odd feet of exhibit space. And then when we get finished with the convention of the jewelry show in June, or the end of May we will be demolishing the North Villas where the 1,500 room high rise is going to go, and the casino and the restaurants and the notion, this lagoon is 1,600 feet long and 650 to 750 feet wide. And it's surrounded by a boardwalk that's a mile long. And along this boardwalk on the north and the south side to the north which is towards Desert Inn Road. Just for those of you who are familiar with this building, when you're in the Wynn Hotel and you look at the golf course you're looking from west to east. The strip is the west, Desert Inn Road is north, Sands Road is south and Paradise Road is the eastern boundary of our property. The lake goes from just past the Fairway Villas, the lake goes 1,600 feet to the east and it has an irregular shape. It has the first seven to nine acres is waisted like an hourglass from 600 or 700 feet down to 250, there's a pavilion on the south where all the big convention building is for outdoor events that's over 30,000 feet with a roof and columns although it's open to the outside air. That's an outside, in addition to 450,000 that 30,000 feet is an outside pavilion because we have a lot of events that want outdoors. And opposing the pavilion is another little promontory that comes out, that's a carousel that's a 103 feet in diameter and the horses go and you go on this carousel by walking on the -- from the boardwalk out on a finger dock. And you can step on to the carousel on a 20 foot wide finger and the carousel goes around and there are booths, you know the pollen booths alternating with horses going up and down. There're two rows of those and the center is a bar and 330 degrees of this carousel are out in the water, this bar rotates with the music and as a classic carousel and it poses with this beautiful lit roof, the pavilion on the other side. And then there are a number of other things that we call in "midway". We have decided to take the theme of carnival and turn it on its edge and make a series of attractions and interactive experiences that in some ways have their roots in what all of us grew up with carnivals, but are not really that, they're far more. For example, the notion of bumper cars, remember that when you were a kid. Imagine that there are a whole lineup of bumper cars like in a pit in the Indianapolis. You get into the bumper car, but the entire skin is LED lights that are controlled by a system that is linked through contact with the car. So that -- and then we have this rally every 10 or 15 minutes. And you go around and around in these cars and if you touch another car it triggers an enormous audio response and an electrical response. So all of these cars are flashing and exploding in color and making crash and explosive noises. Now you go around this oval, and if you win, you get a price. But there are three Keystone Cups that have their bumper cars, which are dressed up like police cars with flashing red lights and they are in costume. And if you get in the lead, they smash into you and cause tremendous crashes. So in order to win the rally, you have to overcome our policemen and our traffic cops. Anyway, it's bedlam in audio visual interaction. Now I give you that one example and there are a number of others. Because it's the notion of carnival, but also we've taken the word carnival and we have put an E on the end as they do in Rio de Janeiro and its Carnivale sort of high [saluting] way of saying that. Because every night at the far eastern end on the southern eastern end there is a ramp that goes to a building of 40,000 odd feet that is our housing for our floats. And we have taking the notion of Carnivale and Rio and with the help of a number of wonderful consultants and collaborators like Michael Curry, who did the puppets for Lion King and has done work for us in Macau with our Golden Tree, the Lake of Dreams here. We have these floats, these 10 or 12 floats that come out in an audio visual parade every night right after dark. And that parade is a musical and visual extravaganza, but it's not the Rose Bowl parade. It's a much edgier kind of thing with huge spiders with spider webs and King Kong and the Devil and these things are 25 or 30 feet tall and they're animated. But what's wonderful is that people 10 or 12 people can pay and be part of that parade and get on the floats. They're self-motivated floats. They can drive down the ramp with wheels and then they can work through the water with their propulsion system. But any way, there is a kind of a parade every night. There are zip lines and fireworks and a host of other things that populate the boardwalk. But it does leave 40 or 50 or 60 acres of undeveloped property at the far east and north towards the convention center for development in the future as we go forward with several applicants or possibilities that are already in negotiation with us. But Phase 1 of our convention center and our hotel and our casino and our restaurants and all that sort of thing that goes along with the full scale destination hotel. This building on the north, where the North Villas are now is a 47-story 1,500 room hotel, with a new room idea that we've come up with that I think is going to be very well received. And there are suites and there is villas, there is all kinds of that kind of stuff. And everything looks over the lake, and the boardwalk and everything is interactive. That's sort of the way it is. I think probably sometime this spring maybe I have another conference and show everybody the final model of what we'll be building at the time. It's taken us some months of delightful design development to work through and get to the options that would be easy to monetize. And it's like any other creative process. It's sequential and you'll get to the best part towards the end of the process. And we're happy with where we are, so we're ready to start building stuff. And we'll put budget numbers and all of that sort of thing on probably in the next 90 days. The Board of Directors is going to see it in a week. And all of us in management have signed up on it, so we're very happy. And we're ready to go on some of the buildings. As I say we've -- we're in final stages of getting our building permit to get going. We should be in hard construction by April, March or April I would say. After we move these trees and the earth -- the site Las Vegas is the whole valley here slopes from west to east downhill 1 foot per 100. So the strip is a 2,075 the Paradise Road is 2,045. You can't see a 1% drop, but its 30 feet down across the length of our golf course. You could see it if you go to Bellagio, you come into the backdoor of Bellagio on grade, but if you go to the nightclub they call Hyde, you can look down on the water and you could see that the strip is lower. So we had to pick a level that where we wouldn't have to bring in thousands of truckloads of dirt or take out thousands of truckloads of dirt which would then add to a lot of costs. And the water level is at elevation 2,060, the boardwalk is at 2,062. Wynn the hotel and Encore are at 2,086 because we have back of the house below the casino. So you'll be looking down on the boardwalk about 20 feet and that allows us to have boardwalk buildings that are below the casino level and below the hotel level. And I think that's probably enough information for now. It maybe was more than you wanted.
Thomas Allen:
No, sounds amazing. I'll let my peers ask more questions, I'm sure. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs.
Stephen Grambling:
Hey, thanks for all the details there. Maybe shifting back to Macau, one of your competitors mentioned some reinvestment is required as the market has matured. Are you seeing any change in the competitive behavior in Macau? And what's your perspective on additional growth opportunities in that market?
Stephen Wynn:
It was matter of fact it was Sheldon Adelson and I spoke to him, because I saw that announcement and it was interesting. It shows how progressive and how dedicated to doing the right thing all of us are. Here is a case where Sheldon and his staff want to make [provision] better and update anything that they find that's weak or that could be better. And what's fascinating is that today in Macau, an operator as big as The Sands, says okay, we're going to do something and improve something and if we have to spend a $1 billion we've got that much faith in the future of the market. I was glad to see it, so much so that I called Sheldon and talked to him about it, and he was elaborating on it to me. So it's a good thing. It shows that we never -- you know in our business sort of like the theme park business, if you're not growing you're shrinking. If you're not getting better you're slipping. It's a capital intensive business, but what's wonderful about our business is those capital investments are well rewarded. For example, this year we closed after the final four last year in March. The next morning we closed the whole north end of the casino where the race sports book were located and our delicatessen Zoozacrackers. We closed it off spent $11 million and then opened it up the day of the exhibition games in August. New screens of the most advanced kind, a brand new restaurant called Charlie's, new bar, new everything, brightened and opened the whole north end of this casino for $11 million. Well we've now assessed it for several months. It looks like we're going to increase our EBITDA by 5 million. Now when we keep a couple of billion dollars in the bank, we can make 2% maybe, but when we can invest in our own business and have a return of 40%-50% actually double digit returns there's no comparable use of our money. We have a dividend program, but the same thing happened when we moved poker over to Encore and turned Botero into Jardin. There we invested 5 million and we made an extra 1.5 million in EBITDA. So like The Sands, in this case they're doing it on a rather larger scale. We invest in our own business continually to give our guests a better experience and it's a good investment.
Stephen Grambling:
Very helpful, I'll jump back in the queue, thanks so much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Hello everybody. Two questions, one can you talk about what trends, what kind of recovery levels that you're seeing in Las Vegas? We've heard comments obviously from LVS last night and Caesars made some comments about Asian play earlier in the week. And then my second question for Craig, if you could just give us the [hold] adjusted EBITDA for the properties in Macau and Las Vegas that'd be helpful? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
We don't have any, the hold adjustments are not really significant here.
Craig Billings:
10 to 15 in Macau.
Stephen Wynn:
Yeah. There're not significant so.
Craig Billings:
At Wynn Macau you can see the 3.37% VIP holdout adjustments between 10 million to 15 million.
Joe Greff:
And at Las Vegas?
Stephen Wynn:
Two or three, nothing serious. It's just that we had -- we've had all those business before. You know, we've always been the principal recipient of international high end business and it's verily true in the pit with the table games. It's true about the hotel and the restaurants, it's the kind of clientele we have, and it's one of the good things about running a sort of a higher end operation. There's good news and bad news of course with every segment in the market but we've enjoyed this kind of international play for a long time, starting in 1989 with The Mirage and we haven't really lost that in spite of whatever location we've been at since Mirage, Bellagio and then it came over to Wynn and Encore. So it's really nothing new to us. We changed our business plan three years ago in July '14 was it, Maurice?
Maurice Wooden:
Yes. It was '14.
Stephen Wynn:
'14 in July. We lost $150 million in Wynn, when the campaign of corruption came in Macau. We lost $150 million in Las Vegas, which was about $40 million, $30 million in those days of EBITDA. Well, Maurice Wooden and I and the gang we all sat down and we redid our business plan. No one had changed the price of gambling in 50 years in spite of the increase of cost of running the business. But we thought it was time to take another look at it. It involved changing the location of the equipment on the floor. Primary locations, we put higher yielding equipment. Secondary locations, we put in lower yielding destination things. We took the crap table from in front of the elevator put it over on the side, we put higher yield games. We took 50% of our blackjack and went 6 to 5 on blackjack instead of 3 to 2. We went to double odds instead of a higher multiple of odds, unless someone was playing in a high limit game. We took away the casino block from the hotel and instead of the casino out in the block, they had to good back. The hotel had the block to sell for cash and the casino had to ask for the rooms. We stopped giving discounts in craps and blackjack or any other exceptional promotional allowances. We changed the criteria from average bet and linked the play in all those traditional metrics that casino marketing people for decades have -- half a century have run hotels and we went to EBITDA per foot with a cold blooded attitude that promotional allowances would only be issued on current play, not on what you did last trip or the trip before, but what was your activity now. And we told our customers, look, if you want to say you will be treated like a prince, just give us your credit card. We treat everybody that way. But if you expect to get free room, free food or any of those things, we're just a business and it's based upon if you gamble at a level that's acceptable well then of course we won't charge you for your dinner or your hotel room. But if you don't, don't expect us to give it away free. Now that's a soft way of putting it, but I assure you that the applications hurt as hard as a diamond. We don't [con] people that don't play, period. And therefore, our margin on table games, which historically has been below 20 in this city, it's 50. We had the same margin with table games virtually now as you do with slot machines and our rooms. So maybe we have a little less business, but we sent a lot of non-productive customers over to our neighbors. And because we love our customers, we send them over to our neighbor in a Rolls Royce.
Maurice Wooden:
And Joe the first part of your question is like everybody we saw increasing cancellations, et cetera, after the event. But we are pretty much back to normal booking trends here at Wynn for the end of this year through next year.
Stephen Wynn:
Actually one of the groups that cancelled was 200 rooms, they rebooked at a different date.
Maurice Wooden:
Yeah.
Stephen Wynn:
So if you're going to ask us what effect did the tragedy at Mandalay have on us, none that, we can measure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey guys good afternoon. My question is for Ian or Karen whoever maybe available to answer. But it seems as though you guys kind of hit your stride on the mass floor at Palace in the period. Obviously your role -- both role and revenue were up mid to high-teens. Obviously slots were up nicely on a sequential basis. Could you talk a little bit about maybe the experience there and is this more just a function of obviously maybe some seasonality, but also kind of hitting your stride getting a better sense for who your customers are and what's really having the impact there that allowed you to outperform the market?
Stephen Wynn:
And mention the new construction of the Red 8 and what a big deal that is. Go ahead.
Ian Coughlan:
So this is Ian, at Wynn Palace you're seeing the fruits of our labor in terms of the first half of the year. And we were looking to gain momentum particularly in the mass casino and we've done a lot of reworking of services in the mass casino, we've changed a lot of our player programs. We haven't overinvested compared to our competitors, but we've been very focused on service levels and introducing new players. And players get sticky over a couple of visits. It takes times like Chinese New Year to make Golden Week to introduce new players and make them comfortable with the property. And we're seeing the benefits of all that work in the first half of the year. We've also significantly ramped up events at the property. We're holding concerts on a monthly basis and we've introduced at Wynn Macau also. And that brings in a lot of players. We do events for up to 1,000 people and we do a lot of food and beverage events associated with the casino. So it's really, in addition to the market lifting, we're also gaining momentum from the initiatives we put in place. We continue to work on new food and beverage offers. We opened Buns & Bubbles in the late summer which is a mid-entry point offer for families. It's got indoor, outdoor dining space of our retail outlet. So that's proven to be very, very successful. And we have a number of other projects coming up primarily Red 8 which will open -- the new Red 8 in just before Chinese New Year 2018. Some other family section as well, it's a larger restaurant with presentation cooking. The existing Red 8 space will be re-conceptualized of the casino into a café. We also have a fast piece of pasta restaurant coming in our retail arcade. So we're really focusing in the customers that are in the building providing them with more variety in food and beverage experience.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you that was really helpful. And one thing you guys didn't mention on the call and maybe your feel is it didn't really play much into the quarter, but obviously that the typhoon was a bigger deal assumingly on the Peninsula than it was on Cotai. I'm assuming everything is kind of back to normal at the property today. But any kind of color you can give on maybe the impact that might have had at Peninsula over the period?
Ian Coughlan:
It would certainly, I'm sorry.
Stephen Wynn:
I just said for example we closed the Macau the original 600 room tower for a period, you go ahead Ian.
Ian Coughlan:
So it had a much bigger impact in Downtown Macau just because of the nature of Downtown Macau being the older part of the city that was less prepared and Cotai features a lot of new properties which didn't have as much damage as Downtown. We had a lot of services that were cut off Downtown. Clearly the focus was on taking care of residents and areas like the hospitals, et cetera, in terms of power supply and water supply. So we were affected Downtown, more off the image of Macau was affected for a period of time and that did affect bookings, we had tour groups that were essentially cut off from Macau for nearly two weeks, so we did see an impact. It's hard to quantify what it means in EBITDA terms but there definitely was a lull probably for two to three weeks.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi good afternoon. Ian maybe we could stick with the same kind of line of questioning but wanted to dig in a little bit more on the gaming operation side as you are key to ramp up Palace. Any kind of things that you could tell us about what you're doing either on the junket relationship side or how you're configuring the mix between premium mass and grinder base mass right now in terms of to what you saw in terms of player behavior in the quarter and how you can really see the building ramping from here?
Ian Coughlan:
Well taking mass first, the lift in mass will be in all segments of mass, and as a consequence of the growing market and all the initiatives I described earlier. On the junket side it's kind of a situation where the players within the junkets are demanding to come to Wynn and we're seeing the benefit of that and junket played roles as the property matures and gets older and people become more comfortable with it. Interestingly we had a lot of strong junket interest at Wynn Macau also where we have a couple of new junkets that are interested in joining us and we've got expansion of the existing junkets. So the junket world is very stable, the growth is very measured and we're getting the benefit of it being having two properties that cater to the higher end of the market.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of David Katz with Telsey Advisory Group.
David Katz:
Good afternoon everyone, Steve you've been -- you had been after the tragic events in Las Vegas you know made some commentary about issues such as security and the like and I appreciate your comments that business is back to normal and so it seems as being present in the market at that point in time. Have you made any changes or has the industry or the Strip as a group had any discussions about you know preparedness or security going forward you know that would -- that we could know about?
Stephen Wynn:
Short answer is yes, I believe that the self consciousness about security has been continuous with all of the operators in Las Vegas for some time. Now the nature and the particular nuance of each of these companies' reactions to the threat, I'm not an expert on. I know what we did here because as one of my competitors described it, Wynn is paranoid and two years ago between Thanksgiving and Christmas we had a series of repeated consultations with consultants including Greg Kelly from New York, the people from SEAL Team, from the development group, SEAL Team 6 as they are known to some people, a lot of people came. We beat the bushes to find out everything that was -- that we could throw at this problem to harden this as a target. With the idea that someone was looking at the hotel, they would see that we had meet the threat level on a number of ways and they'd move on someplace else, because this would be a tough place to survive from more than 3 minutes if you had a gun on you. That included every door, profiling, dog sniffers, all the stuff and it become operational in the 1st of May, the end of April of '16. Since then we invested all this money, it was close to 6 million or 7 million a year beyond our normal security. For payroll equipment and all kinds of -- without going into details, we did an awful lot of stuff that we never ever would have thought we would have to do. Because I personally felt that we were exposed. And that we should send a clear message that there was very little chance of being unnoticed in this building. Now having said that, we knew this particular fellow that did the shooting at Mandalay, he has been a customer here since '06, first started coming, we first picked him up on our records as a typical slot player with a modest credit limit of $50,000. And I got to interview -- and in the last three years been coming frequently with this lady companion of his and I interviewed -- I had a chance to interview the people in the high limit slot area, he plays video poker, he did. At a $20,000, $30,000 level and he never owed a dime. He had a $50,000 credit card. He doesn't owe a dime in Las Vegas. He played Mandalay and Caesars and here. He was a winner at Mandalay. He was a loser over the six or seven or eight years here. But he never owed any money. He didn't meet the profile of a problem gambler or any like that. He was a very controlled person. And he and his lady ate dinner and played the poker with the slot machines in a high limit room before in the afternoon and they went to dinner tipped very well, went -- played after dinner, went to bed. They were served by people in this organization over a period of years and can only be described as the most vanilla, unexciting, totally typical couple that has ever walked in this building. When I interviewed the employees that knew them, they were stunned, mystified, that the person they knew could have been a person that tried to assassinate hundreds and thousands of people and succeeded in killing 58 of them. My employees were stunned. We looked for and the police in [indiscernible] looking for a motive and can't find it. And it's a super fine kind of event. One of the young men that works for me outside the room Tyler Tracy took one in the shoulder and one in his back. Fortunately he's home and up on his feet, but he got shot twice. Both of the employees that were wounded are back are going to survive and be healthy and not have any long-term consequences. The industry is getting together. We're taking complete inventory of all the damage that was done to the people there. We want to separate minor injuries that were done as people ran, from people who actually took fire or got seriously trampled. The gaming industry is taking a complete inventory of what -- of the damage done to humanity and the people that have long-term disability and life changing problems, so that we can give some help to them that's real in long-term. And we're sort of operating as a group, some of us talking to one another like the Sands and MGM. And but, we have nothing to add to the explanation of why this maniac did what he did, other than he just had a screw loose that snapped or something. But is that -- what other hotels are doing, I am sure that in every executive suite up and down The Strip and in Reno and everywhere else and in hotels around the country, everybody is trying to figure out is there a way to use local parlance to lower the odds of a repeat. I know that even at the level we're operating on for past two years, Matt Maddox is sitting next to me, told me that yesterday he spent the afternoon in a discussion with some technology people that showed him an extraordinary thing that we could do that was unknown to us about what technology will allow in identifying without actually walking through a metal detector. But stuff they can identify what's on a person and identify where it is on a person on television. My guess is this sort of thing and vendors that sell this sort of equipment are going to a good investment if you're a stock bigger. Matt do you want to mention it?
Matthew Maddox:
Yeah, I think you're right. The technology is getting there and it's catching up. So I think that everybody will be looking to enhance security with better technology.
Stephen Wynn:
We had a program for training our employees for two years; room service, housekeeping, audio-visual people that go and fix the TV or touch screen. They've all been trained for two years. They inspect the rooms, they look at the people. We profile everybody. We sniff the baggage in the baggage room. We don't interfere with people that have pull-along luggage when they come in, we just watch them and look at them and think about them. And if there is anything about them that meets our various criteria, they're immediately tagged and followed and observed. We have a whole routine that we do here that's transparent as far as a guest is concerned but highly articulated on our side. Now if you're a bad guy and you were looking at the vulnerability of this hotel, you'd probably spot a lot of the things that we're doing. And that's okay with us. It's all right if they see what we're doing in part. Maybe that's a good thing. But we don't flaunt it, it's just there.
David Katz:
Thank you for that. And if I can just ask one brief follow-up with respect to the development on the golf course and the detail thus sound exciting as expected. When we think about what that project can do in and of itself in terms of revenue and profits, apart from what it does in driving business to the property, against the existing property. Can you talk about the different elements of it that will be revenue and profit centers in and of themselves within it? Yeah, thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
The hotel that I described has 1,500 rooms, that's a complete -- it's not just a tower we're adding. It is a complete -- we're arguing about the final naming of it, as we speak but it is a complete destination hotel. It has spas, suites, restaurants, gaming, entertainment, showrooms, all that stuff and in addition it's on the water, on the boardwalk with all of that attraction and [its] things that I described that go from zip lines to a carnival parades and midway and convention facilities. The 1,500 rooms has its own convention component, in addition to the 450,000 foot building that's going on the Sands side and the 30,000 odd outdoor pavilion that's going on the Sands side. The hotel on the north side is a complete destination hotel, so it's a profit center unto itself, and of course it's connected very conveniently. If you look at the -- and you will all know it when you see it, we have a tower on the north called Encore and a tower on the south called Wynn. The new tower is dead in the middle of them. If you were to walk down to showroom, walk down the hallway towards the Encore showroom and you go straight ahead you'd be right in the lobby. So this new tower, this new hotel is dead in the middle of the other two, and the whole 1,500 rooms is closer to our convention facilities than the two existing buildings are. But it has its own convention facilities, meeting rooms, ballroom, and the full complement of things you would expect to find if you're building a free standing hotel. So it's a profit center. And the boardwalk and all of its attractions support all three buildings but also the residual real estate that is adjacent to the boardwalk, takes on an enormously enhanced value per acre and is very attractive. Imagine being able to develop on the boardwalk, on the water with its beach and its parades and water attractions and lake surfing and all the boating thing, imagine that and being directly across the street from the Las Vegas Convention Bureau. How good a location is that? Or how about being directly across the street from the Sands Expo Center? How about being directly across the street from the new forum that they're getting ready to build? We've been in meetings with the folks from Madison Square Garden, the Venetian and those folks have reached agreement. They're getting ready to start construction there. They're in the process of getting building and going through that sort of thing. This whole complex of ours is intensely surrounded by major attractions. That Madison Square Garden attraction is 18,000 theatrical seats, it's not another arena for hockey or basketball. It is Irving Azoff and Dolan's idea like the forum in LA as the major entertainment venue for Las Vegas. And that is directly across from us face to face on the street and we own the corner, we own both corners that surround the Madison Square Garden construction. So all of this stuff is going to become very interactive, between now and 2020 and 2021, be a lot going on here. Not to mention the football stadium, not to mention the fact that finally it appears as if our resort world is going forward with the construction of their resort that was on the side of the former Stardust Hotel. I'm sure that someday something will happen on that frontier property across from us. Even though it sort of stumbled for the past several years, I would imagine that somebody will pick it up and do something constructive with it. It will be happy to hook-up with a bridge of they want to. So I'm feeling really great about Las Vegas for the next 20 years. And my company intends -- my Board of Directors is committed to maximizing the non-casino touristic profile of this complex known Wynn in the next five years. We'll be in construction continually. A lot of this stuff will come on within the next 18, 19 months, hopefully. But there will be things happening in my view until 2021 sequentially. That's not to mention, if somebody shows up that wants to make a deal with us on some of our other property that is on the boardwalk. That too much information for everybody today?
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robert Rossi:
Hi guys. This is [Rossi] on for Robin. Just a couple of quick questions for me. On Macau, this is maybe more for Ian, what you are seeing on the promotional side for higher end play in Cotai and Peninsula and do you expect any changes to that dynamic in 2018 with new competition?
Ian Coughlan:
I think everybody has seen [very] measures, as Studio City, if you arrived in the Studio City [indiscernible] that people didn't shift off their investment rights, it's been very steady both Downtown in the Peninsula and in Cotai.
Robert Rossi:
And then just outside of that, can you talk a little bit about Japan and your thoughts on that opportunity?
Stephen Wynn:
Maddox.
Matthew Maddox:
Sure. So it looks like the political environment is continuing to be -- it's stable now after this last election. And we think that there is gaining momentum for the IR Legislation for sometime next year. We also know that once legislation is passed, there is a long process of setting everything up. So we are monitoring it carefully and spending time there developing relationships and over the next couple of years, I think we'll understand the potential opportunity.
Operator:
And there are no more questions at this time.
Stephen Wynn:
Thanks everybody. Talk to you in the next quarter. I appreciate your time.
Operator:
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd. Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd. Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.
Analysts:
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc. Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC Harry Curtis - Nomura Instinet
Operator:
Good afternoon. My name is Jennifer, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Second Quarter 2017 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Thank you. And I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone. On the call today with me in Las Vegas are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra and Maurice Wooden. Also on the line are other members of management from Macau, Las Vegas and Boston. I want to remind everyone on the call that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities laws and those statements may or may not come true. I'll now turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Well, everybody has seen our numbers and I'll confine my remarks to the most relevant points that I can think of at the moment. Construction in Boston has been – our job has been bought out. The budget is fixed. The work is now approximately 11.5 months old. We are a little ahead of schedule. We are on budget. We're very happy with our builder and that project is moving quickly towards completion in April and May of 2019. And we're very optimistic about that situation and delighted with progress to date. The results in Macau need a little interpretation. A whole percentage was high in one hotel and low in the other, but what is clear is that things are moving along. Our VIP business has picked up in both hotels and the mid-market is growing. We still suffer the walk-in, the dislocation of our walk-in potential because of the extreme construction that surrounds us. There are two things about the construction that are worth noting. We concluded our financial agreement with Leighton Construction when we opened the hotel last August 22. However, we retained 100 or more million dollars to finish work yet to be completed and any defects. Leighton has accepted complete responsibility for that. They struggled a little bit with their own control of the job, but as a result, as they fixed things that had to be fixed and finished. We have taken 180 or more rooms out during the week, each of the past several weeks, and we get them back up on weekends but we've had them down a week. We think this clean-up operation, this completion that Leighton was obliged to perform, that phase is coming to an end by the end of August, which interestingly enough is a year after the place was opened, which gives you some notion of the complexity of these massive integrated resorts and what it takes to really polish them off. It had no financial impact on us in terms of our relationship to Leighton. That had been concluded. And there were more than adequate funds in the retention to cover it. But it did impact our performance by taking rooms out during the week and certain other discomforts that are associated with the fact that you still have a builder on the property. We're hoping that will come to an end at the end of August and September. But the second part of the construction aspect of the conversation has to do with our neighbors. We've discussed this in the past, but MGM in these final stages has enormous neighborhood implications. Streets have been blocked. Barricades are up. And our conversations with our neighbors at MGM indicate that maybe this November, part of the building at least – I don't want to speak for MGM, but in terms of our interest in talking to them, we have been given the impression that there will be a partial, if not – that these obstacles will be removed when they commence operations this fall. And that will open up one side of our property, the West side of our property, which is the fronting side on the lake in the gondola and our entrances. On the South side of our property, the SBM Company – SJM, rather, they had a fatal accident with a worker three weeks ago, and as part of the post-accident procedure, the Government of Macau stopped work on that job. And as of yesterday, three weeks later, they still have not recommenced their construction of that hotel. So, its opening date, and therefore when the neighborhood clears on the South, is still undetermined. We also have construction on the North side of our property with the light rail or the monorail transportation link, which is one of the most powerful aspects of our company because the – it travels around two sides of our property, looking at our lake and our hotel, our fountains and then the first stop with escalators down to the sidewalk is directly at our gondola station in the middle of our fountain feature. So, that the completion of the light rail is not just a removal of a negative, but it provides an enormous positive for our traffic and the mass market. We look forward to that. It is being completed in a much more efficient and expeditious way than it has in the previous two years, even three years. We even have the potential for a walkway to be completed in a matter of days that would allow us to use the bridge that's part of that station to get to the other side of the street, even before the train or the monorail is in operation. And that could happen – Ian, you're on the call. When do you think we'll be able to use the elevated crosswalk and the escalators?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
From an infrastructure point of view, it's due for completion in the next four weeks, including the escalators. We need government approval to be able to use it because it is connected in part to the station, but we believe that there's support to get it up and running as soon as possible. It's a safety issue when crossing the road, so I think we'll get support with it.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Without it, we have virtually – it's virtually life-threatening to get across the street to our gondolas and our entrances. So we have been able to make money and have satisfactory progress in spite of these rather unique and unprecedented obstacles that we've faced. But nevertheless, our business grows and we've settled one question beyond a shadow of a doubt in the last 10 months and that is the cannibalization that was expected, and the cannibalization that seemed to have occurred with other companies, including The Sands when they opened on Cotai. The downtown place took a hit. In fact, we've continued to grow in our original Wynn Macau and Encore complex, and I'm very happy to see that. Ciaran has done a great job in running that place. He's on the call if anybody wants to ask Ciaran about Macau, the original Macau facility, and Ian is on the call to answer questions that are more broad-ranging and those concerning the Palace. Finally, as we have the opportunity to do these on these calls every 90 days, we are proceeding with our finishing our drawings and getting our planning and building permits to begin the development of the golf course with our Phase I lagoon, our lake of 20-odd, 27, 28 acres and our 450,000-square foot addition to our meeting and convention space, fully integrated into this facility, this 10 million square feet that we have already in this building, and we are proceeding with our planning and our development of the 140 acres behind us. The real estate behind in Encore, 10 million feet, is unquestionably the most powerful latent asset that this company owns. Its adjacency to the Las Vegas Convention Bureau, The Sands Exposition Center, and most importantly, its integration with the 10 million feet of the Wynn and Encore, makes that piece of real estate without any possibility of debate, the most precious piece of real estate in the resort industry in Las Vegas. And we have a lot of confidence in our ability to take that forward in the near future. We've had expressions of interest from a number of companies who want to come on this property and participate either in the form of joint-ventures or ground leases and other financial arrangements. And those conversations have been very exciting, and give me a lot of optimism about how we are going to take advantage of this asset in the next four years to five years. And I think that pretty much is my take on the situation on this day. And we'll take questions now.
Operator:
Our first question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Hey. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. So this is kind of for the whole team in general. Was just wondering after digesting these results, what your post mortem per property is, because as we are analyzing it, certainly, Wynn Macau you did beyond fantastic on the VIP side. Wynn Palace was kind of close to our expectations, and in both properties, mass was kind of lower than what we would have expected. So, as you guys digest this and look at it, what's your thought per property?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I'm going to take that first. It's very important when you're looking at this industry, whether it's ourselves or our neighbors like MGM and Venetian. It's very important that you don't get caught up in the very short-term myopia that your professions demand in many respects, because it's the big things that determine the long-range viability of these places. And you know, the history of our company, it gives undeniable proof of that. When you build better facilities, when you invest in human resources, this is a business that remains viable and growing over a long period of time. So, it's decisions that are not so much in the immediate analysis frame that matter. So when we look at the numbers that you're looking at to answer you directly. We say, the train is on schedule, the future of the company is being built intelligently with a strong foundation. And we take that as our principal responsibility. When you deal to the kind of customers that we deal to, when you deal at the level we do. In the gambling build room, which is only less than half of our business, there's volatility. But for example, in the last four days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday in this casino, just 10 or 15 international players contributed $12 million in a slow month. That's besides the full occupancy of the hotel and all the non-casino revenue and the slot machines and the race book and the poker. The power of these enterprises are defined by their ability to answer the real issue with Las Vegas. Can you come to a destination resort and fulfill your expectations of living big and exciting experiential moments? Those kinds of moments take time to create, but once they are created, they endure. So, you're talking to a group of men and women in this company – incidentally, we took – we did a count-up of all the most high-paid people in the company and 65% or 70% of them are women. When you talk to the group of ladies and gentlemen of Wynn Resorts, you will find a high level of consciousness of what we are about and what really defines our short-term and our long-term success. And these are sort of chewy, laden-with-detail conversations that define these big moments of experience. Wynn has emerged, the Wynn Encore facility has emerged as the most celebrated hospitality installation in the world in terms of the awards and recognitions it receives for product and service. I don't say that in a braggadocios way. I mean all you got to do is look at Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Forbes Travel Guide, Barron's Magazine, Condé Nast Traveller magazine. Every conceivable measurement of quality of product and service, we've managed to obtain a high level of success. And as we build these additional non-casino attractions, we have to do the same thing again and again. And you know that's pretty much our whole story. You have been listening to me for a long time, most of you. It never changes. The way we define that challenge, the details of modernity, using technology, using social media and all the – this hotel is the first one that is all verbal. You can walk into our rooms and tell Alexa to turn on the lights, open and close the curtains, play The Eagles or Beyoncé or Frank Sinatra. You can do all that. Change the temperature in the room. You can do it verbally. So, we take advantage of technology. We try and stay ahead of the curve. We're told by the people at Facebook that we're the most advanced of all casino companies in our use of social media. Our Nightlife people, headed by Sean Christie and Alex Cordova, are up to their ears in the use of those techniques. So the tactics change, the overall strategy does not. Any of you folks want to add to that? I'm sort of...
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. Just in – I'm sure you can see it, but in terms of market share at Macau, because I think that's the question you're asking, what you see from first quarter to second quarter is we actually, in Macau in total, increased our market share in VIP, mass and slots, sequentially. Not going as fast as we had hoped 12 months ago, but the programs are in place and we feel good about the direction that we are going.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. So that's all helpful. Thank you for that. If we could just kind of grill down to Wynn Palace and perhaps talk a little bit on the mass side and some of the programs that you have implemented there, given conversations throughout the quarter and even talk with things that you commented on last quarter, you know I would've – and I know the market on the mass side was down sequentially. I just thought that you guys would've done better given some of the changes there. So perhaps you can just talk about that segment at Wynn Palace.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
The mass is really affected by the physicality of the neighborhood. I've said it so many times, I'm thinking I'm boring you, but mass has an awful lot to do with access. And I've laid out the obstacles we've faced. Incidentally, I mentioned the west, the south and north side of our property. I didn't mention the east. Well, that's under construction too because that's the service yard and the whole headquarters for the light rail system. We're literally surrounded on four sides by things that are under construction that will all add to our mass. One of the reasons our mass numbers is so impressive downtown is because we're in the middle of everybody. Right now we're on the edge and surrounded by fences. We're on the edge of everybody. When we get surrounded again by SJM, by the monorail, by MGM and we have our connectivity, the picture's going to change dramatically. And if you go to Macau and you look at this firsthand, you'll grin and shake your head and you'll say, it's amazing this place does as well as it does. We've dealt with a severe handicap here. Now, when I say we dealt with a short-term severe handicap, we have an overwhelming advantage, and that is that we're in Macau to begin with. And Cotai as well and that's a privilege that long-term is sensational. Ian?
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Can I make one point, Steve?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Sorry, Steve. One other severe handicap that we've had, particularly at premium mass level is the smoking issue where there are spaces in town that have been grandfathered in. They were formerly VIP and now they're being used for mass high limit. And people are allowed to smoke in them and are competitors. And that all goes away at the beginning of 2019, on January 1. Everybody has a level playing field. We will be the biggest beneficiary of that because we're operating handicapped right now.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Thank you. And just quickly, just looking at the rolling chip turnover at Wynn Macau, is there anything you want to talk with that? Was there anything extraordinary or out of the ordinary, rather in that?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
During the quarter? Yes. At Wynn Macau we had probably the most unique statistical anomaly in my 50 years of doing this. And this is my 50th year. And that is that with enormous volume, one of our leading outlets lost money for the entire month. Not only did they not hold correctly, they went minus. That's an outlet that in both downtown and at Cotai performs beautifully all the time. But April, the bottom fell out and all the players won millions of dollars. And I think we ended up the month minus $10 million or something? What was – yes, minus $10 million or $15 million.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Out of Wynn Palace.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes. Forget about plus $50 million. It was minus $10 million. But look, on a whole, percentages are right but during that quarter, in April, we had a statistical anomaly. Now you know, we also had counterpoints to that in our history but we did have one during the quarter in April. But other than that, we have nothing to say. Normal volatility, even if it's exaggerated.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Good afternoon, everybody. Craig, maybe this information was given, I just didn't hear it there at the end. But did you break out what property level EBITDA was on a hold adjusted basis at Wynn Macau and Palace? And if you didn't, could you provide that now?
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It was about $20 million low at Palace and about $20 million high at Wynn Macau. They offset each other.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Okay. Great. Thank you for that. I was hoping, sticking to Macau, can you talk about your premium mass business? Can you talk about – I don't know if you break it out this way, but what percentage of your total mass revenues or profitability relates to premium mass? And can you talk about the relative growth rate between premium mass and even though you referred to a little bit of what you characterized as mid-market between mid-market mass? But if you could talk about those relative growth rates in both Macau property, that would be I think helpful to understand.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And, Joe, this is Matt. Everybody, all the competitors want to know what your breakout is of premium mass relative to mass. So we really don't want to get into percentages of where we are driving our business.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We don't want to tell, Joe.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Okay. Fair enough. Maybe a way to ask this question in kind of a generic way, for you, Steve, then to give a high-level view, would appreciate your views is when you look at the Macau market now, say, where it was earlier in calendar 2017, and you look at where it is the now. Are you seeing the market being driven more by VIP here in the 3Q and the 2Q versus the 1Q? I know the 1Q if you adjust for that revenue classification from the government, it has been more mass driven. Does that reverse here in the 2Q? Or has it reversed here more recently? And if that's the case, what do you think is driving that change?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Actually, Joe, I'm not the right guy to ask the question. I've had my nose down on work in the backyard here. Really. Ian or Craig? Either one of you guys want to take that? I'm not trying to slip the question, Joe, I'm just not up on that detail.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
We opened Wynn Palace with very strong VIP business, particularly in the junkets, and that strength has continued, and the remarkable aspect of everything is, we didn't cannibalize our business downtown at a VIP level in the junkets particularly. So that's been an area of strength. It continues to grow, sequential growth in junket business downtown has been significant three-quarters in a row. And we are built to take care of VIP customers at all levels, and our properties serve the VIP customers very well, we're known for that. So when that area of the business is growing, we do well.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
The lack of cannibalization, I want to point out hastily, is again a reflection of when you build these places with a solid foundation, physically, programmatically and in terms of Human Resources, the notion of cannibalization doesn't really apply.
Craig S. Billings - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And, Joe, I know the question you're trying to get to is what happened to mass in the second-quarter for the market? And I think that you know that in the second quarter it is seasonally slow for the market in June. So we are not going to sit here and predict which direction mass is going after 90 days. The business still feels good across our properties in both the premium segment and in the regular mass segment.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Thank you, guys.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Hey everybody. Good afternoon. Just to follow-up on Joe's question. Matt, you kind of made reference to growing share sequentially from the 1Q to the 2Q at both properties kind of across all segments. I was just wondering in terms of when you reference that, are you referring to mass and VIP in the way that they have historically been categorized by the operators? Or more looking at the DICJ quarterly metrics?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
The DICJ quarterly metrics.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Okay. Understood. And then, Ian, if I could, you guys seem to have had a streak of very good luck, obviously some bad luck at Palace this quarter, but over on the peninsula if you look over kind of the last five quarters, the property has been holding over 3.3% on close to $65 billion of rolling chip volume. Has anything changed there that kind of created this run?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Ian, Ian, I want to join in that answer.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Sure.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It's important for the investment community to understand that one of the consequences of the type of buildings we build, and the money we spend on Human Resources. Our properties have a stickiness, an attraction, to a caliber of gambler that, to a certain extent, we enjoy to a greater extent than our competitors. When you talk about whole percentage, observe Wynn Las Vegas. We always hold in the mid-20s%. Enormously more year-in, quarter-in and quarter-out than our neighbors. That's not an accident. It isn't about luck. It's part of this program. It's highly self-conscious and highly articulated. We have more profitable casinos, pound for pound, foot per foot. I mean, if someone has nine casinos, we obviously with three don't compare. But when you compare any single operation of gaming in Macau, casino floor for casino floor, you'll see that we always hold higher. It's because people play longer, and they're wealthier and they have more discretionary income than others. And that results in a different business plan. I can't stress that enough. When you look at us, you have to understand it and you've got to be conscious of the history. Take a look at casino performance in terms of whole percentage and stuff like that at the Wynn. It's easy to look at that because the numbers are easier to compare because we don't have the chip roll and the repurchase, which is a complexity and people buying chips at the cage in China in the mass casino sort of distorts. But when you use a traditional form of measurement, Wynn Las Vegas answers the question if you're asking about Wynn Macau. We always hold higher. It's one of the goodies that has to do with our program. Ian, you can take it from here.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
What we've seen with particularly hold in the junkets is when we have extremely high volumes, then we do seem to hold better. When you have less volume, we have higher volatility, which has been an issue at Wynn Palace on occasions. And usually these things over time sort themselves out.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's right.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Great. Ian, thank you very much.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Hey. So last week there were some stories about junkets asking their customers to remove deposits. How are you thinking about the strength or longevity of the junket system at this point? Thank you.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We don't pay attention to the minutia. I mean what we're saying is that people who go on vacation in America and China and decide to go to a destination resort that includes a gaming room, those people tend to have the money that provides them choices in life. And they don't usually allow their preferences to be altered. They overcome changes. But they do what they like to do. Golfers find golf courses. People who like to gamble and want to go to a fancy resort find a place that gives them what they want. And they've got the money to deal with change, and they do. So the nuance of moment to moment developments doesn't change human nature. And, therefore, it doesn't in the long term, ever change us. So we heard what you heard. We said, okay, that's interesting. Next case. We didn't pay much attention to it.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Okay. Thank you. And then just your occupancy continues to rise. How are you allocating rooms between cash and comp rooms at this point? And how are you thinking about it going forward? Thanks.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Which property?
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
So I think Wynn Macau is up 600 basis points. And I think it continued to be pretty, still pretty high at Wynn Palace too. So both properties would be helpful.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Occupancy is in the mid-90s% at both properties. We allocate rooms to the most valuable customers, and downtown Macau has been pretty consistent in allocating over 80% to our casino customers, and the rest is cash. Over in Cotai, it's a different market. We are up to close to 60% in comp rooms at the moment for casino and we plan to give even more rooms over to comp.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
And we would like very much in phase two in Cotai to add a whole bunch of rooms so that we can improve the mix for everybody. And as soon as the government lets us, we'll build some more beautiful hotel towers, with or without gaming. That's not the most important thing. We just want the people to stay in the hotel, to have their meetings there, shop, eat in our restaurants. If they want to gamble, that's their business, but we'd like to have more rooms. We were constrained by a height restriction because of our proximity to the airport. So that location had good news and bad news attached to it, where the first stop from the ferry terminal and we're right next door to the airport and all that stuff, but we couldn't go as high as we wanted to, so 1,700 rooms was all we could get in that first structure. But we have property on both sides of our land concession that – and already we built the connections to those sites, to the additional real estate so that we can add more rooms. And depending on our – on the permissions that are in the latitude given to us by the government, we would erect beautiful hotel towers with convention and meeting space at the minute we were allowed to do it which would change the mix. That's the end of my answer.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Hi. Good afternoon. I think a couple of the questions here have been sort of trying to hit on the same topic, which is the sequential – some of the sequential figures we're seeing at Palace. So I guess my question is this, I mean, if we look at the big sequential growth you saw this quarter at the Peninsula, do you really care or are you concerned at all with the fact that Peninsula at the moment is growing faster than Palace? Or do you kind of even plan and run the business that way or are you happy to sort of service the customers where they want to go right now?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes. You're right what you just said at the end. We don't care. It's all one big thing. You know? It's one integrated resort in two locations. To us, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. You already know why the Palace is a little retarded because of the neighborhood. But to us, it's all one thing. Same ownership. It's all just two locations. Could care less where the money comes from.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
And, Steve, when we look back on this three to five years from now, do you think we are going to be looking at a Palace property that is getting – that sees a much bigger ramp from here in the mass market, given some of the factors you mentioned? Or do you still think that there is room for the VIP and the higher rent players through comping appropriately and just getting to discover the property? Is there still more growth and more potential there?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I think we'll look back and see Macau grow and prosper. With that growth will come concomitant growth in the mid and premium market levels as well as VIP. As the market gains traction and receives broader visitation in the Pacific Rim and from Mainland China and from everywhere else, Taiwan, Japan. As the market grows, all those segments will beef up. You know it always happens sort of proportionately. Unless someone restricts a certain part like we had the restriction of the VIP then of course you see the relationships change. But under normal conditions, it proceeds pretty much pari passu. At least that's my take on it. I don't know. Matt, do you look at it differently?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
No, no. I think you're right. One thing about Wynn Palace that we also haven't talked about is we are building some new amenities that are going to be great attractions for the mass market. They'll be opening next year. More restaurants are coming in the next nine months that are going to continue to add to that.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
For Chinese New Year.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Incidentally, what Matt just said is true at each of our hotels all the time.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
That's true.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We never leave any of them open. For example, in a week or so on the fourth of August, we redid the whole north end of Wynn Las Vegas where the Race Sports Book were – that were located and where a big casino bar and delicatessen are located. We closed the whole north end of Wynn, decided that we wanted to make it more exciting with new gorgeous screens, a brand new bar, new VIP seating sections for race and sports people. We've updated the restaurant and we're going to – this Friday morning, we're going to take the wall down and everybody is going to be dazzled because the entire north side of Wynn is going to look different than it did when we put the wall up the day after the final four. None of these hotels stays the same in – we think of ourselves, if we're not growing, we're going backwards. If we're not adding new and exciting nuance to each of our properties, for our repeat visitors, then we are not keeping the promise that is the backbone of this corporation. So, what Matt just said about things are going to open between now and Chinese New Year, well that is going to be true in Las Vegas. And you be damn well sure that when Boston opens up, we will be tinkering with that. We buy more real estate so that we can grow Boston. We are buying up the neighborhood to make Everett a destination convention and entertainment element of the metropolitan area of Boston and central Massachusetts. We never leave these things alone. That's one of the reasons why we hold a higher percentage of fixed tables, and why our room rates stay high. So these places never get static. We don't allow that.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Great. Thanks. Just circling back to Wynn Palace. You outlined a couple of the challenges for the property and kind of different timelines for when some of the work inside the property will be done, in a month. MGM opening by year-end, maybe a light rail and SJM further out. When we think about the ramp up of the property, how much of the difference between what the property is doing now and what you think it can be doing when all is said and done? How significant are the changes that happen by the end of this year, versus maybe light rail and other things that might take longer? Just to sort of manage our expectations about the ramp up.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Interesting question, Robin. Got to think about that one. Wow. That's the kind of question I ask myself. Any of my colleagues want to help me out with this one? That's a very provocative question.
Ian Michael Coughlan - Wynn Macau Ltd.:
Robin, my take is, like we said last quarter, actually, the ramp is going to take us longer than what we told you guys at our Analyst Day last April. Those forecast are still what we project, but we need the infrastructure in place. Our programs are moving forward, and so we are big believers in that property and in Wynn Macau. But we have to get through really the next as we said, 2017 to see a lot of these things start to happen. So that is what we said last quarter and that's still how we feel.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
For example, if they turn on those escalators, that's an item. You can't get across the street now. It's very tricky to understand that. We can look at the numbers from our neighbors and compare ours to them per table, I guess, Matt? And say, well, suppose that if we're less per table, I don't know? Are we? Than one of them? Will the number per table change?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It should. We are right at fair share right now, and our properties have always been 1.2 to 1.3 fair share, and so I believe that is where Palace is going to go.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
There you go, Robin.
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It has all of the elements in place.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes. If we are one to one on revenue versus – our percentage of the revenue versus our percentage of the equipment in the market. If we are one to one, that's the only time it has ever happened in my career in 50 years. In New Jersey we were 1.58, and the more hotels that opened, we increased the margin of excess margin over one to one. If so we are one to one Matt, right now, and the neighbors are one to two. We've always have been 1.2 and 1.3. Look at Wynn Macau. Then that would be a bare minimum, and that building, the Wynn Palace is the fanciest thing in China by far. So -
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
And I wasn't questioning that you would grow to a premium to your fair share. I was just thinking about timeframe. And so it sounds like maybe from Matt's comments, that a lot of things by year-end sort of will – a lot of the biggest hurdles for you will by the end of 2017, is that fair?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I don't know Robin. It depends. What are they going to do with the light rail? What happens when MGM – is MGM going to open in November? And when they open, will there be a complete opening? A partial opening? Will there be blockades left? What really is going on with SJM. They ask us if we would link SJM to us. Well, on the empty land on the south side of our property, the corner of it is directly opposite the corner of SJM. They want to have a connection. Well, I say great. Let's do it, because it goes right into our retail. Boom. Build a hallway that's air-conditioned and we're in business and we're connected to their 2,000 or 3,000 rooms. Same thing with MGM. I'm a little confused about the timing on those properties and I'm a little confused about the improvements of the neighborhood and how they affect us, but I have got complete confidence that the Palace will be the show pony both financially and physically when these questions are resolved. I'm just frustrated with giving you the kind of answers – because your question really meant that I had to know how it was going to come in chronologically. And I don't, Robin.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Okay. No, fair enough. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura Instinet.
Harry Curtis - Nomura Instinet:
Hi, guys. I had a general question and then a housekeeping item. The general question is, the VIP growth of 35% according to the DICJ in the quarter, was pretty exceptional. And years ago, maybe 6 to 8 years ago, I recall a rule of thumb that the government was fine with a 15+% , a growth rate around 15%, and I'm specifically referring to the VIP segment. And to the best of your experience or knowledge, is there a growth rate that the government is comfortable with? Or can the junket business grow at an over-20% growth rate without the government's objection as long as its customers and liquidity sources are legitimate?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
The regulatory agency has tightened its controls and supervision of the junket operators. I think that's the form of expression that has been adopted and we don't know of any arbitrary number that is in government thinking on this subject. Only thing we do know is that they wanted to improve the standards of probity and investigative activity, and they have done that. And the main operators sailed right through, as they always have. I remember when we were being licensed to Massachusetts, the question was, well, Macau has a reputation that may be questionable in some quarters, especially in Massachusetts. And I remember that we said, wait a minute, let's put this matter to rest. We told each of our operators that, in addition to being licensed in Macau, they had to go to the organized crime criminal division of the Hong Kong Police Department and get certificates of clean bill of health certificates. They actually would investigate someone and then come to a conclusion and make a statement in writing that that person was free of any criminal association. And every one of our operators went instantly and did it without hesitation. And that impressed the folks in Boston. We were happy to do it because we wouldn't want to do business with anybody that couldn't pass such an examination. So, the regulatory issue is the one that I think is at stake here. I don't know that anybody has an arbitrary number about growth rates.
Harry Curtis - Nomura Instinet:
Is there – maybe a different way of asking the question is, is it the fact that or – junket liquidity, do you think that that is maybe more of a relevant question versus government policy? And where I'm going with this is, junket liquidity seems to run in cycles and, in your view, now that we're in an upswing again, what could slow it in the next year or so?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
What do you say, Matt?
Matthew O. Maddox - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Harry, as you know, we've been through all of these cycles together. So there are the macro issues we all understand and then there are the changes in regulation that could slow down liquidity. But to try to guess what might happen in the future I think is not the right thing. What I would tell you is that we are seeing the same faces and new people in our VIP rooms and in our premium area. So that is a good sign about the health of the market. But I really don't want to guess on what could slow down liquidity in the future.
Operator:
And, ladies and gentlemen, we have reached our allotted time for questions. And I would like to turn the call back over to your presenters for any closing remarks.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
I thought today's questions were well thought out and insightful, especially as all of the investment and analysts wrote for and reach out for the kinds of information that will predict the future. And I know that's the job of analysts and advising the public on their investment decisions. We do the same thing in protection of our shareholders. Read the tea leaves, so to speak. Try and anticipate the future. And the most certain part of the future, which is change, and how to build these enterprises so that they are equipped to handle change. They have the agility, the flexibility that's necessary for any commercial activity in today's world. And I want to go back and say that in answer to all of the detailed inquiries that were brought up in today's Q&A, what will determine the future, believe me, will be the same fundamentals that have done it decade in and decade out. How carefully are your buildings and your facilities designed and executed with care and professional input. But most importantly, what is your human resource profile? Because only people make people happy. And these places, their agility is measured in terms of the morale and the attitude of the people who engage the public every day in these buildings. If you want to have an insight, beyond the questions and answers you get from us on a quarterly basis, go to these hotels. Interview employees. Feel the vibe. Eat the food. Stay in a room. Talk to the employees. See if they're proud. See if this job they have is a measure of their own self-esteem. Do that survey. Do that inquiry, and you can predict the future. Because when you get that information, you will know who will control every market and out-perform the competition. And that is all we got to say today. It's fun to have these conversations. Talk to you the next time. And thanks.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation. This does conclude today's conference call. And you may now disconnect.
Executives:
Craig Billings - Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer Stephen Wynn - Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Macau, Limited and Wynn Resorts, S.A. Ciaran Carruthers - Chief Operating Officer, Wynn Macau Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Matt Maddox - President
Analysts:
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Joseph Greff - J.P. Morgan Stephen Grambling - Goldman Sachs Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Thomas Allen - Morgan Stanley Robin Margaret Farley - UBS Investment Bank Daniel Scott Adam - Instinet LLC Adam Trivison - Gabelli & Company Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Operator:
Good day. My name is Lavarielle [ph], and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the First Quarter 2017 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig Billings, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Craig Billings:
Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. With me in Las Vegas is Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden, Ciaran Carruthers. Also on the line are our colleagues in Macau, Las Vegas and Boston. Just a reminder for today, we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor securities law and those statements may or may not come true. With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Wynn:
Okay. You can see the numbers. Business is good for us. We've been joining a research and sub activity at the top-end in China. Our hotels there - we're enjoying the continuing prosperity of Wynn Macau and the steady growth of Wynn Palace pursuant to plans and the expectations we've had since the inception of that project. When we opened the hotel in Cotai this past August, we had 9% of the market. In the first quarter, we went to 13%, and now we're moving past 16% of market share. So that's in spite of the fact that we are still surrounded by barricades and construction. Now, it happens to be sort of a mixed message. The construction interference in traffic and the isolation of our hotel is at an all-time high. But it's at an all-time high, because the level of activity has increased, I'm happy to say, immeasurably, especially in the monorail, light-rail station that is right in front of our hotel and provides the greatest obstacle to movement of people. But they are installing the escalators and there is a new contractor. And they seem to have a whole new energy and vitality in getting the transportation system of - the transportation system that benefits us enormously. The new ferry terminal is about to open, the monorail goes from there, the light-rail goes from the ferry terminal and all of that, straight into Cotai. And it goes around our property on two sides, and we're the first stop. And the people in it experience our lake and our fountains, and then they stop right at our gondola. That construction has been a tremendous barricade, I mean, literally a wall. And now that seems to be getting to the stage where not only will it be completed later this spring, that part of it, but also the pedestrian crossover which is part of that construction will be available to us. At about the same time this summer or this fall that MGM opens their construction activity and the blockage of the street is in an all-time high, which is associated with the end game, the last four months of construction or five months of construction that MGM is experiencing and the activity on our south side at SJM has also accelerated. So we are blocked out, but on the other hand, there is good news ahead as the time between our suffering and our relief gets shorter. The hotel at Palace has been turned out from a guest point of view very sticky. People stay with us coming back again, and again, filling the hotel and we're happy about that. So Macau is a story of our neighbors and surrounding construction. Everything is moving along well. Ciaran Carruthers is here in Las Vegas with me, runs Wynn Macau. Ian is on the telephone in Macau. And both of those men and our financial people are available for answers. In Las Vegas, Maurice Wooden is sitting next to me. And we had the biggest hotel quarter in the history of the company. Our revenues were up 9%. And our cash was up and we had a really good quarter. And we come to a final decision that I'll discuss in a few minutes, and about the golf course and that development. Bob DeSalvio is on the call in Boston. We started construction in July. It's a 34-month job. They're slightly ahead of their schedule. We're eight months into it and - seven or eight months into it. The job is bought out. The GMP is finished and the project is bought out. And we're on our way to April/May opening in 24, 25 months from now. And again, men are available for questions. So I'm going to take a moment and bring everybody up to date on the project that has occupied a great deal of our attention from the last 12 months. And that is redevelopment of the golf course. The golf course rose $7.3 million, netted [$3.5 million, $3.3 million or $3.5 million] [ph]. 46 people played golf. And that's very nice. It's a beautiful [indiscernible] golf course. But as a business, it's always a placeholder, since we bought the place in the desert in the 2000. That period is now concluded. It is no longer a placeholder. It's a development site. Construction will begin in December and January, and the first phase of it will go rather quickly. What we decided after a year of development of fanciful and really imaginative ideas that include a mountain and features and gondolas and restaurants and nightclubs and hotel towers. As we realized that we had a pressing issue in the company now, we have a very, very healthy convention and catering business in this hotel, and we get a big premium for our space. And we have our shows that are stationed, that headquarter here are getting bigger every year and they are outgrowing us. And my colleague, Chris Ann-Flad [ph] who has been with me since the Mirage deal days, when we built Mirage, and she came from Caesars. Chris has been asking for more space. She wanted just under 100,000 feet of convention, ballroom space 86,000 feet, and she wanted another 60,000 or 70,000 feet of meeting rooms. And in order to accommodate the business that we are dealing to now, and it had a certain profit level because of the catering cost plus business, it had a certain impact on our occupancy of 8% or 9%. And when feathered into our retail food and beverage, and casino business it had a certain worst-case impact on EBITDA of $50 million or more. So we said, all right, we got all these great ideas that are going into this lagoon, and this beachfront property, but what should we do to take the most conservative but dynamic approach to this property. And after all of the studies and the pricing, we came to this conclusion. That we were going to build, we would master plan the entire event, but we would build the beachfront meeting space, ballrooms, cabanas and pools that represented the certain need we had at the moment. Build the lagoon, 1,500 feet long and 800 odd feet wide with 4,000 foot boardwalk with white sand beaches and water-sports and attractions, bar and food service. Build that first. That would energize the real estate that the 130-odd-acres that is the golf course with its water rights. And we would put this 20-odd-acre lagoon in the middle of it. And then we would build our meeting space, leave room for our new tower that could be a couple of thousand rooms. We would leave room for everything master plan it, but build at first the park that would immediately power up our existing restaurants, our existing casino, our existing convention meeting and catering operation. With an absolute certain return on that investment of excessive 10% or 15%. We have no better use for our money, we keep $1.5 billion or $2 billion in the parent company. And this would allow us to take the most conservative, but the most dynamic approach to creating this. We can affect this tremendous uptick in the value of our surrounding real estate. And that's what we decided to do and that's what we've committed to plans and that's with the Board of Directors has approved, and that is now a project. And hard construction will commence in six or seven months because we are doing the drawings as we speak, and we've been for a month or two. But we'll do this with complete drawings and firm prices with guaranteed maxes and liquidated damages and all the other things we do to protect ourselves. So that's the formula and we'll spend between $400 million to $500 million on it. And we'll get the lagoon and these things up pretty quick. By start at the beginning of the year, we should be in shape within a year or so, it goes very fast. And that's pretty much the state of things. I think I'll let the rest of this time today be left to answering questions directed either at us or China or Boston. So go ahead with questions, Ma'am.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] We'll pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. And your first question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, thanks. And thank you for the explanation on Paradise Park. And as you think about the master-plan longer term, I know when you guys originally kind of proposed the idea back in April at the Analyst Day, a hotel and kind of broader scope was attributed to it. Could we kind of look at it today and say, okay, Cotai is up and running, Macau is doing a little bit better, but - and you guys are being a little bit more conservative with this spend, going forward with the elements of the project that you think have high-return associated with them in the near-term and then could potentially branch into something larger with potential additional hotel towers more similar to the original contemplation down the road?
Stephen Wynn:
I couldn't have said it better myself, Carlo.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay. Okay. That's easy then. And then on…
Stephen Wynn:
Would you, if I may?
Carlo Santarelli:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
This idea, if you build it they'll come, has been something that I've done for the past 40 odd years. But I've never had an opportunity that was so rich in options in my entire career in Las Vegas. This golf course and this lagoon and the beach-run property, every time we turn around someone else comes to see us to do something else with it or to buy a piece or to rent a piece or to do a JV. And it's been very exciting. So I say, well, before I build my idea of a thing to go on that section, let's put it out there, let's feel it, let's live with it for a while, let's give everybody a chance to appreciate how dynamic this location is and how powerful the opportunity is. Maybe we miss something. Every once in a while, when you're a wide-eyed developer like myself, and my colleagues, it's good to take a beat and so we did.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood, and then if - maybe somebody could help out here. Obviously, you guys had some favorables on the VIP hold side, maybe a little bit of light mass hold that looked like at Peninsula. But when you look at each of the three assets, could you guys kind of give us what your sense was for normalized property level, EBITDA metrics?
Stephen Wynn:
Nothing in China and a few million bucks in Vegas.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay.
Craig Billings:
All right, the direct hold was low and the junket hold was high. So when you look at it, there really was no hold impact on the Peninsula.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay. And now, that was - so the three-three you were saying on the junket side is the junket side plays favorable, the direct side played weak and kind of mitigate it.
Craig Billings:
That's right.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay. Okay, great. Thank you, guys.
Stephen Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with J.P. Morgan.
Joseph Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Just so we maybe can get a sense of how to think about normalized margins on the Peninsula. I know there was a collection benefit and you had them from time-to-time and I understand how you reserved for outstanding credit. But can you talk about what that impact may have been at Peninsula in the 1Q, just so we get a sense of how to think about normalized property level EBITDA margin?
Craig Billings:
Hey, Joe, it was about $5.5 million.
Joseph Greff:
Got that. Great. And is it your sense that the rate of outstanding credits being paid off and [that is that's] [ph] benefiting for you and others on the VIP side at Macau, is that starting to plateau or is there - do you feel that sustainable?
Stephen Wynn:
You can answer that question.
Ian Coughlan:
This is Ian in Macau. We've had some favorable collection of credit. And it certainly seems to be tied in with the stronger credit market in general and it has benefited for us for a number of quarters.
Joseph Greff:
Okay. And maybe just a big picture for you, Steve, you referenced obviously a resurgence in the high-end, the top-end in China. It surely manifested in the numbers you reported tonight. What do you think as driving that? And how sustainable are those drivers from here? I don't know if anybody has the right answer for that, but if you can share with us your view.
Stephen Wynn:
I have a picture - I have an opinion on that. And of course, it's just my opinion. But I've said in these calls in the past that it would be a mistake to misunderstand the primary underlying driver of the Chinese economy. It is a massive thing and when you say that as I have in the past that we have a very positive and bullish look forward into our long-term position in Macau, at some point the long-term vision and the short-term begin to meld as they are now. The suppression of the VIP market was something that was the result organically of a process that the administration of President Xi Jinping thought was appropriate for the country, the elimination of corruption. And it had secondary effects on high-end products like shopping, and automobiles, and gaming was part of that. But having made a corrective move in China there comes a point when the corrective move, it sort of finishes. And although corruption is still a major item in the PRC, the initial impact has softened, because so much of the work that they thought had to be done, was done. And so people begin to return to normal spending habits, and they are not so strongly influenced by public policy issues that involve public officials. So the people are settling back into routines that they're comfortable with, and that includes going to Macau and buying a new car or shopping at Louis Vuitton. And we've always been part of that cycle, and it wasn't going to be permanent, and we've said that before. Long-term strength of the Chinese concession is one of the most precious assets in modern day. And we are just been seeing it. And another thing, they limited the expansion of Macau in a number of ways. First, by the real estate that is available. The last hotels to be built are being built at the moment, SJM and MGM and that little sort of [squired project was Louis the XIV] [ph] or something, the guy with the red Rolls Royce's building on Colovon [ph], so the little boutique place. That's it. The new tower, the rooms that were added at City of Dreams is coming into the season. And then that's it, the door sort of closes on more supply. And then we are just left with the enormous demand of China. And that's sort of coming into play now again. And I think you can see it continue. That's my opinion.
Joseph Greff:
Thank you.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs.
Stephen Grambling:
Hey, thanks for taking the question. Maybe a quick follow-up to Joe's last one, just how do you think about the ultimate size of the demand from VIP longer term? And as you referenced VIP returning, how much of the recent strength has come from existing players versus new players? And are you seeing any changes in that customer base based on either sourced industries or geographies at the two properties? Thanks.
Stephen Wynn:
What do you say, Ian, Ciaran, what do you say?
Ciaran Carruthers:
We're seeing - we are very cautiously optimistic in terms of how the business in the VIP side is going on moving forward. We've obviously seen some good growth over the last quarter, quarter-and-a-half. Initial, early signs are out that that's going to be sustainable in the short period. For how long that can be sustained really is too early to tell. I'd like to see another quarter or two of some good solid growth. The upside of course is that with properties like ours we obviously benefit the most in the marketplace being that preeminent product for service and luxury. So as that new liquidity enters into the marketplace the premium master rates in junkets, we benefit more so them anybody else. So cautiously optimistic, but I think a little bit too early to call as a long-term sustainable story...
Stephen Wynn:
Do you see, Ciaran, do you see - he asked an interesting question. I think the same old people come back, or they're new ones that you're seeing?
Ciaran Carruthers:
We are seeing some new ones, but we are seeing a lot of the old players come back to us as well. We are seeing some old faces that are coming back into the marketplace. We've seeing some junkets that have been fairly stays over the last 18 months, 24 months, start to rebuild. We recently had a junket at Wynn Macau during this quarter.
Stephen Wynn:
And another one is coming up this week?
Ciaran Carruthers:
That's right. At Wynn Macau, this junket went from two tables to ten tables. About six weeks ago, when they have been very solid through that period, they continued to show good strength. So again, early indications are positive, but cautiously optimistic looking forward.
Stephen Grambling:
That's very helpful. And maybe if you turn back to Las Vegas, Steve, can you just talk about any impact you're expecting from the Raiders move there and how that may or may not play into what you ultimately pursue at Paradise Park?
Stephen Wynn:
Love the Raiders coming. And I even spoke before the joint session of the senate and the assembly in Carson City, along with Jim Murren and the folks from Harris were there. We are very, very happy. This was whipped cream and cherry on the cake, I mean, getting professional sports into Las Vegas is a perfect thing. I spent Easter on vacation at the Bahamas. And one of my guests with me was Dan Snyder that owns the Redskins. And while, I was there at Baker's Bay, Robert Kraft was onboard, and so is Steve Bisciotti that owns the Ravens. And we were all talking about how certain the owners were - we had 31 out of 32 votes to move the team here, how certain everybody is that NFL games in Las Vegas are going to light it up. Super Bowl without the game actually here is as big as New Year practically in this town. Now, when we have these home games or exhibition games in the city, and we will have a stadium big enough for Super Bowl, and the Super Bowl will be here, more than once, this place will go bonkers. And speaking for our own hotel, we figure to get a big share at the top end of that business. So we believe that it's a tremendous impact of the football team to the strip first of all regardless of where the stadium is built. And I think that I know where it's going to be built. Mark has an auction on piece of property just on the other side of I-15, just opposite Mandalay Bay actually of Russell Road is a site that he is auctioned. That may or may not be the final location for this big installation. But I suspect we are going to have football here in 2020. And I can't wait for it to happen. What it's impact will be on my development of the golf course is another story. We are building the golf course to power up our existing assets and to allow us to expand in non-casino ways, the power of Las Vegas. I want to repeat once again that a casino is a passive place, every slot machine and roulette table in the world is identical to every other. What drives people, what moves people are the non-casino directions. And that's why in spite of the fact that we've had the most financially successful casino in the world other than Singapore and Macau, right up until today, never in my company's history and that includes Mirage Resorts, Palazzo, Mirage all the rest of them, Atlantic City, Biloxi or downtown Las Vegas, the casino revenue has never been equal to 50% of the revenue it's always been less. And lately, it's almost two to one. So what moves people are the adventures of a vacation, great service and choice of activities. The development of golf course is a direct aim at that mentality. And the football team is just like adding into a symphonic orchestra the strings and percussion. So we got T-Mobile Arena that MGM and Phil Anschutz built, AEG. My guess is we'll end up with an NBA team before this is over. We've got a hockey team. You fast-forward 36 months or so, and Las Vegas is I believe will be a sports capital how about that.
Stephen Grambling:
That's all great.
Stephen Wynn:
Now, with 160,000 rooms where is it better than here for that sort of thing. And everybody wants to come here anyway from every city and other countries. And we'll use that football stadium for soccer before it's over or my name isn't Steve. So I think that recent developments portend very positively for Las Vegas.
Stephen Grambling:
Great, thanks. I'm looking forward to going bonkers of the game too. I'll jump back in the queue.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, thanks for taking my question. Ian and Ciaran, this will probably get directed to you. So just wanted to first compliment you on the great performance in Macau in the quarter, and on the VIP site both properties beat us nicely. But on the mass, depending on the property they're either in line or slightly below our expectation. So I'm wondering now that you have the VIP piece of the puzzle in place. What's the plan to drive mass growth and I know for you guys it's primarily premium mass. And then, how would you describe that piece in the quarter relative to your expectations?
Ian Coughlan:
This is Ian. So looking at the premium mass portion at Wynn Macau it was really post opening of Wynn Palace about maintaining service levels and keeping the stickiness of the customers that we had downtown. And we've been very successful and doing that. And over at the Palace it was about continuing that slow steady build of premium mass players from a quite distinct market. And I have to say on both accounts it's being successful. The ramp-up period of Wynn Palace is not as quick as we'd like it to be. But it's been very steady. There is momentum. And on the premium mass side we continue to build new players for Wynn Palace. And as each weekend and each holiday period goes by, we pick up more people. We've done a lot of internal building of key host for the marketplace. And we are out there hunting for players and making them happy and keeping them.
Felicia Hendrix:
And how are you seeing the promotional side of the business in that segment?
Ian Coughlan:
As referred to on previous calls, Cotai is more heavily promotionally driven. And we are in that game and we are competing with everybody else. We are not doing anything untoward. We are not changing the dynamics of the market. We are just competing fairly, and we've got the nicest probably in Cotai. Similarly, downtown we still command the Peninsula, so we're delivering on our promise both properties are in great condition, and the player council building.
Stephen Wynn:
Can I add something to this. If those of you on the call have been there, if you can visualize the physical layout, our benefit downtown has been at the Wynn Macau that we were in a cross flow of the people from the surrounding casinos both SJM's place, the Arc, MGM, and one on the corner Star World. In Macau, we were on opening day in August at the end - the east end of Macau - of the Cotai. When we get through with next six to 10 months, we are in the middle of SJM, MGM, and surrounded by the light rail, the monorail. So now, we get this brand new center of energy called Cotai East, for lack of a better term. That has a tremendous impact on our walk-in mass business. Not only do we not enjoy this at the moment, but we are blocked on our west side by barricades, and construction as I mentioned so many times before. But understand, that when it finishes we are in the middle again. And that's why the Peninsula hotel has always had such a terrific mass business, because they walk across the street and boom. I mean, when SJM opens their 2,400 rooms, we are literally across the street from them, and across the street from MGM, and across the street from the new tower at City of Dreams. And all of that connectivity comes to bear as we move forward in the quarters ahead. Lot of things that mature, that we thought they would be done by the time we were done. I literally thought we are going to be last at one point. And of course it turns out we were first not only with the transportation, but the existing hotels in our neighborhood. So it's been a challenge to deal with that handicap. But that comes to an end here, pretty soon. And then it swings the other way rather dramatically, and we've got extra real estate to build more rooms. And we will add to our room total, because we know that we can fill them at a good rate.
Felicia Hendrix:
So that's helpful. So it's sounds like to taking everything together what you offset maybe to assume some sequential growth just from some of the programs you're doing, but really the real growth in the premium side will come in all the construction has gone?
Ian Coughlan:
Right. That's what we believe.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay.
Ian Coughlan:
You just summarized management and Board's conviction on this matter.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great. That's helpful. And Steve, your comments earlier on the growth of the market particularly on the VIP side are very helpful. I think a lot of people are also a little cautious about is, in the past Wynn growth came in - when GGR grew too fast or perceptively too fast. We would see the government either steadily or not so steadily make different policy changes to run in growth. Do you think there is a risk of government interference at this time? Or do you think this is a new normal given the new supply that needs to be absorbed?
Stephen Wynn:
We don't based upon our conversations with the government and our perception of things they've said to other people. We do not see any negative impact by central government or Macau government activity matter of fact we see quite the opposite support and encouragement.
Felicia Hendrix:
Great, super. Helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Hi, so just on the Wynn Macau, the Peninsula property. You are able to improve your market share by over 1% versus the fourth quarter. I heard your comments to the last question around the strength in VIP and the stickiness of your customers there. But is there anything else you're doing differently to support that improvement in market share? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes, we hired Ciaran Carruthers.
Ciaran Carruthers:
Next question.
Stephen Wynn:
At the end of the day, it's about people, isn't it? And we are constantly strengthening the human resource side of this company, and under Ian's leadership, we've done so on number of levels. Now the way it works over there. If somebody that we admire and is willing to come to work for us, and we can't do a meeting of mind. And if they are in the market they have to give notice, and then they have this sit-out, cool-off period that's imposed by the laws of Macau. So some of these people that are coming to us, have had - their arrival has been stunted by the law. On June 1, we get another tranche of some of our new recruits and they are in training outside of Macau to join our company, and to pick up on our culture. But have a steady program of muscling up, marketing, food and beverage, casino and hotels. One of the men that's coming to us is a five star executive, he starts on June 1. Tony is coming from the Bangkok hotel, where he got the five star, he is joining us. Our new food and beverage, Vice President is finishing his cooling off period as well as several other people. And I'm not quite sure how public I should get while they're in the cooling off period. But I will tell you that come June 1, we power up even more our executive leadership of the company.
Craig Billings:
Steve, there was one of the gift we gave Ciaran when he joined us in January. We added some tables to Wynn Macau. We had it over-steered a bit in terms of table movement. And now we've calibrated both properties for optimum efficiency and that's certainly help the quarter at Wynn Macau in the mass side.
Stephen Wynn:
And as you can see everybody, this old business of the amount of tables was overrated. It's a thing, I said in August, and you can see that it's not up the amount of tables, it's who's at them the matters, and how long they stay that's the game we are in, not the gross amount of tables. We've never been the biggest at anything, we've always been the one that captures the quality end of the market, and those are the kind of buildings, we build and those are the kind of people we hire. That are join together, because of a common desire to be part of high quality operation.
Ciaran Carruthers:
Into that point, if I can add, across all of our business segments through the first quarter, we had our average daily volumes exceeded the period and it may lead up to Wynn Palace Ultimum [ph]. So we've been able to regain - not only regain the business that we may have lost through Palace Ultimum, we've grown on that as well as the market is lifted.
Thomas Allen:
Congratulations, definitely seeing in the numbers. Just moving onto Vegas. Revenue was up 6% in the quarter, EBITDA obviously up 23%. How does that market feel obviously there are one time things or it's supporting the first quarter in the market in general. But is that market feel like it's starting to improve and maybe it's specifically around high-end Asian player would be helpful? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Mr. Wooden is here.
Maurice Wooden:
So again, I think the first quarter was a perfect balance of all areas. You look at our gaming, hotel, food and beverage, so we were perfect position where all those areas actually performed much better than they did last year. Looking forward our convention pace is outperforming outpacing any future historical metrics that we use. And so we are on a really strong pace of 2018 and 2019 for convention bookings as well. So here Las Vegas, we are optimistic that we'll continue to look at REVPAR growth, somewhere in the 45% for the year. And looking into the future with respect to the kind of convention business that's really important to us, we see tremendous growth there as well.
Stephen Wynn:
We will be constantly adding and developing a convention of the market, especially the part where the money is, which is the catering and meeting room and banquet business as opposed to the exhibit space itself. For that we're right across the street in the sands. We're right across the street from the Las Vegas Convention Bureau, both of these entities are aggressive, and we are in the crossfire, so we love it. And we are feeling good about our Asian business as things improved in China, we've always been the principal beneficiary of Asian baccarat relentlessness in Las Vegas. Even before we open the Mirage and the best Chinese business, then Bellagio at the best part for our business, and then when and on core at the best baccarat business. And we feel almost just quickly as they're doing Macau, we feel that here in Las Vegas. Up until including last night and this morning, where baccarat numbers, and given shift are $2 million stuff like that. This place gives that business every week, and it's pretty cool, and also we enjoyed that. You may ask yourself, why would Asian people, with so many casinos in their home territory fly 15 hours to Las Vegas, and stay at a place like Bellagio or the The Venetian. It's because of the choices you have here, it's because of the non-casino venue that gets back to football team to basketball, hockey and conventions and shopping, restaurants. This place, this town is a real safe bet. We ask our [Technical Difficulty], we say is anybody on the Board of Directors believe that Las Vegas would not in the next 15 to 20 years be one of the major destination tour cities in the world. And no one has ever answered to that question. And that's what we feel so good about our real estate and our opportunities here. And then we are going to open this place in Boston in two dozen months. And we are going to have a case study of how grand hotel in the major metropolitan city can change the neighborhood for the better. And be the largest private investment in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the second largest employer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts behind Mass General Hospital. So I like the direction we are in, and I'm feeling comfortable about the pace of our growth. And I don't feel like anybody is after us. We're moving along exactly the way we should be. And my colleagues joined me in that conference.
Thomas Allen:
Helpful. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
You're welcome.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Margaret Farley:
Great, thanks. One Macau question and one question about the U.S. operations. The Macau question is kind of similar to other folks has been asking about that when you look at the greater number of rooms that you have on Cotai versus Peninsula. When do you think that the mass drop there, we'll get to exceed what you have on the Peninsula?
Stephen Wynn:
Good question, Robin. I'm not the guy could answer that. I know that Linda is on an airplane, because she was here with me last night. She is on her way - Linda Chen, back to Macau. Ian and Ciaran, can you deal with Robin's question?
Ian Coughlan:
We've got 700 more keys at Wynn Palace, and the waiting of casino rooms versus cash rooms is a lot lower than it is on the Peninsula. Downtown on the Peninsula it's been virtually impossible for 10 years to get a room in Wynn Macau, because it's been so heavily casino driven. Cotai is a slightly different market, but we have lots of room to grow casino customers and continue to hold high occupancy at Wynn Palace. We've lifted occupancy at Wynn Palace from the low-70s in the third quarter to mid-90s in the first quarter of 2017. And there is quite a lot of activity in tour and travelling cash business, but we have lots of rooms with casino market. So as we gain momentum and continue to ramp up those rooms, we'll got to mid-tier and premium mass customers.
Ciaran Carruthers:
And when that happens, as soon as we straighten out the concession business, we'll add several thousand rooms to Cotai.
Robin Margaret Farley:
Okay. Great, thanks. And then my question on the U.S. operations, if you look at your budget for Boston, kind of two quarters ago you were talking about kind of $1.9 billion to $2.1 billion. And then it sort of moved to the $2.2 billion range and now $2.4 billion. So when you look at that…
Ian Coughlan:
That's the end of it, $2.4 billion. It's bought out, that's the number.
Robin Margaret Farley:
And, well, so that…
Ian Coughlan:
With a big contingency.
Robin Margaret Farley:
And that was one question; it was like is that final now. But then also, I think originally when you were talking about the project in Vegas, you were talking about a $1 billion budget. Is it sort of just a coincidence that the Boston budget - that the Vegas budget has gone done by the amount that Boston budget has gone up? Is there anything to be read into that?
Stephen Wynn:
No, it is a coincidence. I tried very hard to explain why we're handling the lagoon and the golf course the way we are. And it was function of the EBITDA certainty of phase one. And the fact that we have so many options about what to do with the rest of the real estate on the waterfront that we want to see it first. So - and the fact that that budget went down is a coincidence entirely. The fact that the budget went up in Massachusetts is a function of the surprisingly expensive bids we got from the subs. I did change scope about eight months ago, wasn't it, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
When we added more convention space. I added more convention space on our property. But it really - the GMP is at $1.310 billion. And we were surprised for a couple of hundred million, 150 to 200, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
And we took a lot of bids. And we went back and value-engineered, because we didn't like the bids and we cleaned it up some more. But, boy, I'll tell you, building in Boston is expensive. The subs have a lot of work. They - we were cross-bidding four and five different outfits on things like HVAC, electrical and plumbing. And those numbers stood. And it's not just that it's a union town, because we've always built union buildings out here. It's the building trades are busy in Boston and the cost of living is high in Boston. Now, that's a gate that swings both ways. The cost of living is high in Boston, so wager levels are higher in Boston, but so is the average income in that magnificent metropolitan area. It's matter of fact, the average income in the metropolitan area, the four-point-eight-or-nine million people that we are going to serve by ourselves so to speak is one of the highest per cap metropolitan areas in the United States, if not, the highest. Is it the highest, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
I don't know. It's one of the highest.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes, I mean, we've never been in a city where the per cap income is as high as this, not to mention non-stop air service from every single capital in the world to Logan Airport, including Hong Kong, Beijing and Shanghai, Geneva, London, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo, Seoul, non-stop service to Boston on a daily basis. And we've never been in a city where we're 12 minutes away, where our hotel is 12 minutes away from an international airport with non-stop service from every capital on earth, the first time for us. We've always had to go get the folks in LA and fly them over here in one of our jets, but not this time. We're 12 minutes from Logan Airport. I was there last week. And that's how long it took me to get there. And we're 12 minutes from Boston Garden. We're in Everett, which is its own city, with its own Mayor, a wonderful fellow and a wonderful city council. But we are surrounded like an island by Boston and its suburbs. And on the edge of our property, if you take three steps to the right you're in Boston. You take three steps to the left you're in Everett. And that's on three sites. So we're an island in that metropolitan area, and happy to be there. So it was coincidence. It was a coincidence.
Robin Margaret Farley:
Okay. Thanks for the color. Thanks.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line Harry Curtis with Instinet.
Daniel Scott Adam:
Hi, this is Dan Adam for Harry Curtis. Thanks for taking our question. In Macau, looking at demand trend so far in April, we are wondering if you're seeing a continuation of the strong 18% market growth that we saw in February and March follow through into April. Thanks.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, I don't know that we want to get into the next quarter.
Ian Coughlan:
No, I don't think so. We're usually - it's too early right now to be talking about the second quarter.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes, I think - I don't think that - I don't want to give people false expectations or anything like that, so I think we'll be off that little concern. But it was throughout.
Daniel Scott Adam:
Yes, fine. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Dan, is there another question?
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Adam Trivison with Gabelli & Company.
Adam Trivison:
Hi, thanks for taking my question. Steve, can you give us your thoughts on the opportunity in Japan and how you're approaching it in the context of your other investment opportunities?
Stephen Wynn:
Could you repeat the question please?
Adam Trivison:
Could you talk about the opportunity in Japan and how you're approaching it in the context of all your investment opportunities?
Stephen Wynn:
Matthew Maddox can handle that and I'll take all the…
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So we've been monitoring Japan for the last decade pretty carefully. And for us right now this is actually a really exciting time. It seems like all the right people and corporations are now focused on moving the IR implementation go forward in the next 12 months. And the Wynn focus on quality, and what we do we think fits quite well with what Japan is looking for. So we are ramping up our efforts and really excited about the opportunity.
Adam Trivison:
Okay, great. That's helpful. And then, the second one, Maurice, you touched on this a little bit. But in Las Vegas REVPAR was very strong, first quarter. Can you talk a little about the way that played out over the quarter, I guess, particularly with a lot of it in March or what's the pace in there?
Maurice Wooden:
Well, really, January and March. So we got out of the gate very strong with CES and then there was from a convention and transient segment. The entire quarter had a lot of strength. Obviously, in March, we didn't deal with the Easter holiday and the Passover holiday that occurred in 2016 in March. This year it's in April, so there was a shifting of that holiday period. And then we had one unique group that comes every three years, CON/AGG, CONEXPO in March, and then also helped the [city with city-wide event] [ph], a great group to have. And so, but really the strength is both transient and convention, so really then translates into cash revenue.
Adam Trivison:
Okay. Great. Well, thank you very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon. Maybe I just wanted to go back to the ramp up at Cotai. And I guess it's probably a little bit difficult to analyze, given that January and February were so impacted by Chinese New Year. But when you kind of look back at the quarter, did you see, I guess, some continued sequential ramp up, at least across the quarter in some of the key metrics or KPIs that you guys are watching at the property?
Ian Coughlan:
Yes, business has been growing in all segments, non-gaming and gaming. It hasn't been outstanding in one particular area.
Shaun Kelley:
Okay. Thanks for that, Ian. And then, I guess, just as a follow-up is - we talked a little bit about the promotional environment in the mass and premium mass segments, which appears still competitive in Cotai. But could you talk a little bit about the VIP business, either what you're seeing from junkets right now, some of the interest in either extending credit from your standpoint, adding rooms, things like that, because it doesn't feel like many other people in the market right now are actually targeting this business from a competitive standpoint?
Ian Coughlan:
With the type of product that we provide and service in the marketplace lends itself to being very attractive to junkets. An interesting stat is that, when Macau and Wynn Palace combine junket volume was 2.5 times our junket volume for the 60 days prior to the opening of Wynn Palace. So we are very attractive to junket operators. There are types of players. Our direct program continues to grow between the two properties. And in addition to being a great place for mass players, Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau lead in terms of VIP service and quality.
Shaun Kelley:
Thanks. And maybe just a last one, Ian, are you seeing I guess new junkets or new sub-junkets like some of the signs of I guess early credit formation? Are we kind of at that part in the cycle there?
Ian Coughlan:
So we certainly - we've seen junkets that have been quieter, rebuild a lot of their business. Ciaran referred to one junket that's grown from two tables to ten. We also - that's downtown Macau. At Wynn Palace, we have a new very strong junket starting in a couple of days. So there's continued interest from existing junkets and want to grow their business.
Matt Maddox:
Shaun, it's Matt. One thing I think you'll appreciate is we're generating about $8.5 million of VIP revenue a day between the two properties, which is similar to the 2014, 2015 levels with less than half of the advances. So this is not a credit driven liquidity revenue like we've seen in the past. It feels very healthy.
Shaun Kelley:
That's great, Matt. And then, maybe if I could, just one more on that would be, you sense a similar type of environment for the junkets themselves? Are they extending as much credit or are the customers more flush with cash as well?
Stephen Wynn:
It's a tough question to answer, but it's an interesting question.
Shaun Kelley:
Yes, I guess, maybe you could see it little bit in the collections, right? In the past it's been as short as 15 days, sometimes that period lengthens out a little bit, probably the only way to give any sense really.
Matt Maddox:
You know what I would say is, when you talk to the junket operators they'll tell you their liquidity is much better. And what that means is they're collecting more of their debts than they were in the past on top of raising additional funds. So they're not getting the liquidity from the operators. They're getting it from better collections and from outside investors. So I think that's a good indication that the health of the junket market is much better than it was.
Stephen Wynn:
It's such a good question. I'm going to ask some of the junket of that, [I didn't thought to ask them] [ph].
Shaun Kelley:
Great.
Stephen Wynn:
[indiscernible]. We're not given…
Craig Billings:
There is a general sentiment in the market at among the junket operators that they are managing to collect on debt that's owed to them and they're able to put it back into the market.
Shaun Kelley:
Perfect. Thank you very much, everyone.
Operator:
And there are no additional questions at this time.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, thank you very much everybody. Talk to you again in 90 days or so. Appreciate your interest. Have a nice week. Bye.
Operator:
Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for your participation and ask that you'd please disconnect all lines.
Operator:
Good afternoon, ladies and
gentlemen. Welcome to the Fourth Quarter 2016 Earnings Call. My name is Ronnie, and I'll be your conference operator today. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to Steve Cootey, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Stephen Cootey:
Thank you, and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the
company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Maurice Wooden and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from our Las Vegas, Macau and Boston properties. Before we get started, I just want to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under the safe harbor federal securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Wynn:
Very nice to have this call. You've seen our numbers, up. I have
a couple of comments. We opened the Palace in Macau on August 22nd. We opened the Wynn Macau on Labor Day of 2006. It took us about a year to get that property to produce operating profits of $1 million a day. We were able in the -- in September, October, November, December to get to over $800,000 a day. And the way we operate, we tend to ramp up and put very little marketing pressure on a property to find out what its baseline strength is. I've said this before, but it's worth repeating because I'm happy to say that since the 1st of the year -- and during that period, the Macau and Encore properties maintained their levels of revenue without being negatively or adversely affected by the new hotel in Cotai and so that revenue was additive. However, in -- since the 1st of the year, without Chinese New Year, which is going to begin today, we were able to have the Wynn Palace come up to a $1.6 million a day, and Wynn in Macau in $1.4 million a day. So the 2 hotels have been throwing off about $3 million a day, and I'm very glad. It means that our situation is right on target, right on schedule. As a matter of fact, we're a little ahead now, with our hotel occupancy at the Palace, ahead of our predictions. We're running in the 90s at rate, and we're pushing rates upwards in our occupancy, which has caused us to have very good mass market success in Cotai. We're still barricaded on 4 sides by construction by both by the city's light rail system and by construction on 2 sides, by SJM and MGM. And at this point, we're not really clear on when those properties will open. But we are pretty clear that the light rail and our barricades, that have interfered with foot traffic, will be relieved by the spring. So I think if you're planning and looking at our operation in Cotai, you can pretty much figure that we're going to be barricade-free by the second half of this year, sometime during the second quarter. So the fact that we're experiencing this good mass market activity is a function of our high occupancy at Cotai, which produces a higher end customer consistent with our position in the market, both in the Macau original downtown area and the Cotai area. Our fourth quarter was satisfactory in Las Vegas, and January is operating ahead of last year as we head into Chinese New Year, which kicks in pretty much tonight, tomorrow and this weekend. So we expect a happy ending or at least a vigorous ending in terms of casino activity at the end of January going into Super Bowl in February and the holidays in the first quarter. That's pretty much my take as an overlook on our operations. We've been in construction since July in Boston. Bob DeSalvio is on the telephone. One of the most unusual parts about our business is that our 2 Chinese op -- our Chinese operations are run by 2 Irishmen. And Ciarán and Ian are both on the call. And Matt and I are here with Maurice Wooden, who runs America, to answer any of your questions. And we'd be happy to take them now. Questions? Ma'am, you can begin to take questions on this call if I'm still on it. Does nobody have any questions today?
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] And we have a question from the line of
Felicia Hendrix.
Felicia Hendrix:
So the color you just gave us in the opening remarks were very
helpful, where Wynn Palace has ramped to on EBITDA per day. And I was just wondering if you could just talk to us about what has happened to that property since the last quarter to get there? Has it been more tweaking the product, more proactive marketing? Has it benefited from the growth in the market? All of the above? I just think it would be helpful to get some details around what has been driving that. And then in line with that, regarding the margins that you're generating at the property, the EBITDA margins, like, have you gotten to above 20%? How long does it take to get to normalized margins at the property?
Stephen Wynn:
You know what? I think that Ian is perfect. He is -- he got up at
5:30 in the morning to talk to you, and I think we ought to let him do so.
Ian Coughlan:
Felicia, we've done a significant amount of work at Wynn Palace
after the property opened. We completely reconfigured our main casino floor, and that's driven much greater animation and excitement. We've added 2 themes, slot sections, a high promotion -- high-energy promotions area, a new poker area. We've also increased accessibility to our high-limits area. We're constructing a new noodle restaurant on the floor, which has made the casino smaller and also helps with the energy. We have increased our marketing activity both from an awareness perspective and also with general players that are visiting. And we have increased headcount. We've become a member of the much- fabled Cotai Connection, which is bringing in just over 1,000 extra people a day. And the ramp-up in occupancy from the low 70s to mid-90s has been a big help in animating the property. And just generally, we're finding after you get through the chaos of the first 6 to 8 weeks, a property settles and the true players in Cotai are finding our property and discovering it and visiting us. We were very much helped by exposure over the October Golden Week. And particularly, Christmas and New Year was a very busy period for us. So people are experiencing the property, the right type of players are coming and they're finding it to be their home. There has also been a very, very active program of reenergizing inactive players, players that had either split their play from Wynn Macau into the new properties in Cotai or had moved over to Cotai completely. And we've reenergized a lot of those players and they're coming to our property. So we've been helped by a lift in the market also, but it's pretty much everything that Steve covered earlier.
Stephen Wynn:
One of the things that is being demonstrated, once again, it's
not the amount of tables, it's whose active, and we're probably a perfect example of that. Wouldn't you say so, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes, I don't know what our market share is going to show, but I
suspect that it will climb from the last quarter.
Ian Coughlan:
Chinese New Year is a great exposure opportunity for us as well.
It's the first prolonged holiday period. So we expect very, very high visitation from people that would normally attend other properties.
Felicia Hendrix:
And if we did our quick math correctly, it looks like VIP versus
mass mix is roughly 60/40. Where do you want that property to end up?
Stephen Wynn:
What about that Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
I mean, we're growing all segments of the business. We've seen --
the interesting thing in the split between Wynn Macau downtown and Wynn Palace is the strength of our junkets and also the fact that our mass play downtown hasn't been affected a drop. So we're continuing to grow all segments at Wynn Palace. But where the split works out, we'll see. But I think it will be healthy and pretty similar to our operation downtown.
Stephen Wynn:
Right. And it could -- I should add this. Because we get such big
play, volatility plays a role month-to-month in that sort of thing, probably more so with us than with some of our neighbors, and that's also true in Las Vegas. But having mentioned that, volatility is a factor when you look at our company compared to our colleagues up and down the street here and abroad. But remember, that volatility factor does have a concomitant benefit. We always, year-in and year-out, run a higher hold percentage than our neighbors. And that's a historical fact, and it has to do with the kind of people that come to a place that is geared toward the top end of the market. Even though we have more volatility, we still settle at a higher level than everybody else.
Felicia Hendrix:
And just on the EBITDA -- the margin question?
Stephen Wynn:
30% in Las Vegas. And Matt, what is it China? Very close?
Matt Maddox:
Yes. I mean, it's -- Wynn Macau has always been in that 30% range.
And your question was when can we get Wynn Palace ramped up over 20%? I think that is certainly going in that direction right now. So we're seeing [indiscernible] on everything.
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes, that's what I was asking. Like so -- are you over 20% now? Not
in the quarter, but through this?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, yes, yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes, we're on our way there. So...
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with
Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Matt, just quickly in terms of Peninsula low mass hold, high VIP
hold, looked a little lower on VIP at Palace. The net effect of all of that stuff with respect to EBITDA, any kind of guidance on that?
Stephen Cootey:
It's about -- this is Steve. About $6 million light.
Stephen Wynn:
6 -- we're $6 million light. We just had another $6 million.
Carlo Santarelli:
Would have been another $6 million. Okay, great. And then, Steve,
on your comments regarding kind of October, November, December, I think $840 million a day was the EBITDA at Palace. You said over $800,000 a day for -- was that for each of the 3 months?
Stephen Wynn:
I -- Ian, is that -- is it? I didn't look at that, that way, or
at least I had forgotten. Matt, [indiscernible]
Matt Maddox:
It's around...
Ian Coughlan:
In consecutive months.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Okay. That's helpful. And then, Ian or Ciarán, and just
whoever wants to opine. But in terms of what you guys are seeing in the market right now, and I'm speaking more so towards the VIP side. Clearly from the DICJ results for the fourth quarter, VIP has meaningfully changed. What is your opinion on that as we look out to 2017? And do you think we're at the beginning of a sustained rally in that market?
Ian Coughlan:
It's been fits and starts throughout 2016. People talked about a
VIP recovery, but we really have seen a recovery over the last 2.5, 3 months. There's a lot more confidence. There appears to be more liquidity in the market, particularly with the junkets, and it's being sustained. So the outlook is pretty promising.
Stephen Wynn:
I have said this before and I want to repeat it again. It is very
important to keep a long view of China. The leadership of that country, and this is also true of Macau, it is a meritocracy and there are smart people running the government. They don't move as fast as we do in the United States, especially these days with our new administration, but there is a steady program afoot. Xi Jinping decided that it was a priority of his administration to eliminate the perception of corruption that was held by the people with regard to government. And that effort was vigorous and protracted and it did have an effect. But it seemed to be the right thing to do for the right reasons, and it had an effect on luxury brands and -- such as gaming and Louis Vuitton and Chanel and Mercedes-Benz and that sort of thing. But the long-term thrust of China is inexorable and undeniable. And that's why we build what we built, and we're going to build more in the future because we have real estate to do it. We have a very, very bullish, bullish attitude about China long term for our company. And as we manage our properties, we -- in anticipation of that kind of movement in the general economy, we're being rewarded. And I think it's probably a sound way of looking at China and our business long term.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. And then, if I could, just one follow-up. I know you
mentioned Bob's on the phone. It looks as if costs for Boston are up maybe $300 million at the midpoint. Could you talk a little bit about maybe what that relates to?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, the -- this is Matt Maddox. So we're working through our GMP right now. The previous budget had been in there for a number of years. We put a fairly conservative estimate out of -- in our
current earnings release. And I think over the next 90 days, we'll have much more clarity as we nail our -- as we finalize our guaranteed maximum price contract.
Stephen Wynn:
But it's moving along. I mean, they're proceeding at pace. We've
been in construction since July, and we're satisfied with the progress.
Matt Maddox:
It's -- we've spent about $467 million to date.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
Just a question on Wynn Palace. I think it was Ian who mentioned
about some of the physical changes that you guys are making to the property. Amongst some other things that you're doing is maybe marketing differently or to different customers. Can you talk about marketing expenses? Are they elevated relative to what you think might be a normalized level? And to what extent do you think they might normalize over time over what time frame?
Stephen Wynn:
That's an interesting question. Ian, do you want to take a crack
at that? You or Ciarán? Or [indiscernible]
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. Linked with the opening and marketing expenses were in the
range that we anticipated, but they were slightly higher than what we'll have as a run rate for the remainder of the year. We've already seen the marketing expenses start to come down. So they're within the Cotai range. It's a different market place than downtown. Marketing reinvestment is generally higher than Cotai, but it's where we anticipated it to be.
Joseph Greff:
Great. And, Ciarán, welcome to the fun conference calls here.
Maybe you can talk about, since you're new, where you see the opportunities for Wynn Palace to improve? And Steve Wynn, maybe, Steve, you can talk a little bit about maybe some of the opportunities that are more obvious now that were less obvious upon the opening in terms of ways to improve revenue and profitability there from here.
Ciarán Carruthers:
Go ahead.
Stephen Wynn:
Go ahead, Ciarán.
Ciarán Carruthers:
Thank you for the welcome. I'll let Ian talk to the opportunities
there for Wynn Palace as my fault as now is going to be to continue to maintain the position and the performance of the downtown Wynn Macau property. Obviously, the Peninsula remains a very solid proposition for the very core market of high-level game as they're coming into Macau. And I think the performance in Q4 is solid as that has been despite the opening of Wynn Palace, despite the opening of some of the other new properties on Cotai. All is very well moving forward into future. Obviously, work to be done to continue to maintain that position and maintain the service planners and so on. It's been incredibly welcome and enjoying the property and seeing just how much commitment there has been, both from Las Vegas in terms of the spend to maintain the physical property and also the commitment and the hard work of the team of professionals that are there and -- that provide just excellent service. We've just got to continue to build on that.
Stephen Wynn:
Look, the way to look at us and that'll give you the insight to
project us, we have a very definite approach to this whole notion of the gaming business and integrated resorts. And our approach is based upon 2 solid truths. Number one, better customers. People who have the money to choose, who engage in visiting hotels and facilities of this type have a common thread that is undeniable. And that is they go where they're treated the best and where the facilities are superior. If you are a player who attends these places, you have a choice and you always go -- in the long run, always go with the rooms are better, where the facility is immaculately maintained and where the staff has had invested in it tremendous amount of energy for training and personal attention to the guest. That is to say, we're very customized in the way we treat our people and the way we present our facilities. In the long run, that garners the strongest possible clientele. And again, I point out, it's who's in the building, who's sleeping in the rooms that determines the results, both in gaming and non-gaming results. It is true that there is a second approach to this business, which is more akin to Walmart and the mass approach. And the Sands and the Galaxy and the Melco people do that beautifully. We come to these people with a different message, that if you have the money and the inclination to visit such places, ours offers the most luxurious environment and the best service and the best food. And in the end -- and our shops are catered to the kind of people we expect to be staying in the rooms. That's to say that our facility is, at the end of the day, truly integrated, but it's integrated with a philosophy that's integrated. And that tells you our story. That's the Wynn story plain and simple. It's never been any different, whether it was the Golden Nugget downtown, the Golden Nugget of Atlantic City, Beau Rivage in Mississippi, the Wynn and the Encore in the central part of Macau or the new Palace at Cotai. And that will be exactly what happens in Boston. And that's going to be our story, and it won't change. And you've got a long history of our operations from Rivage and Bellagio and the Golden Nugget to the buildings that we're operating today. There is nothing mysterious or secretive or in a certain sense, particularly cunning, about what we do. It's very straightforward, right out in the open where everybody can see it. Our competitors choose to approach their challenge in a slightly different way, and it's certainly valid based upon the earnings and the results of those places, but we slot in somewhere else. And in the long run, it gives us tremendous stability and performance that a room for room, foot by foot in any building that we built, they tend to over-perform. And we're comfortable doing this. I would say that we probably -- our management team is a collection of men and women who are attracted to the pursuit of excellence. We share a common understanding of who we are and what we present to our guests. So we're at least consistent, but we're definitely different in our approach than some of the other places. And that's not to say that their approach is less valid than ours. But ours is well- defined and historically consistent.
Joseph Greff:
Steve, can you give us the latest update on Paradise Park and the
developments on the golf course?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, that takes up most of my time. And we're very close to
having our choices settled in. And we are adding significantly to our non-casino revenue, both in the building of the lagoon and everything that surround that lake. It's a 1,000-feet x 1,000- feet in general terms, close to 20 acres of -- 20 or 23 acres of space, surrounded by a 4,400-foot long boardwalk, that's 18-feet wide and which is ringed with retail food and beverage and an additional hotel rooms, convention and meeting space and various attractions for the 800,000 people a week that come here. And it includes a new big theater, a new tower of rooms, substantial expansion of our convention and meeting space and related entertainment attractions and customer activities that we think will appeal to a broad range of folks. And having the ability to have a perimeter that's white sand beaches and a boardwalk seems to us to be pretty fetching in the middle of the Southern Nevada desert. We have a unique...
Joseph Greff:
What are you thinking in terms of the timetable?
Stephen Wynn:
I hope to take -- Matt and I hope to take the business plan to
our Board of Directors in the second quarter and therefore, be in a position to begin work in the fourth quarter of this year. I say that, but we have to have our prices and our business plan all locked down before I go to my board to get their permission to proceed. We keep the board apprised in every meeting and on every telephone call of our latest nuance in that development. But the incredible amount of options that were available on this 130 acres with a 1,000-acre feet of private water, the choices were numerous. And my challenge and my design team that had been with me for over 35 years has been to make sure that we make the right choices. And there have been so many of them, it's been dizzying. But I think that we've nailed it down. We've wrestled it to the ground. And Maurice, Matt, all of us have a tremendous amount of confidence that it's the only way forward. I mentioned that last September -- for example, very interesting. Last September, there were 30 days in Las Vegas, for example. We won a $1,870,000 a day in the -- in gaming, and that had to be the biggest number in America or anywhere but Singapore and Macau in the world. And as good as that was, $1,870,000 a day, and that was net of any discounts or promotion allowances, our non-casino revenue was $3,340,000 a day net of comps. That tells you about this causal relationship between non-casino revenue and an integrated resort and casino revenue. It's the non-casino things that bring the folks and determine their choices of where to play the games. And so, when we approach the design of the golf course property, which sits on our books at a cost of 0, that whole parcel, it's -- has been written off in prior development. We think that we want to take our non-casino revenue to enormously high levels because we think that the probability of this 800,000 people a week in this city remaining the same and growing is almost a certainty. And that's the fundamental assumption about Las Vegas that leads us to wade in to the convention and non- casino end of the business with a high degree of confidence and entertainment as well.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with
Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Two quick questions, and welcome, Ciarán. I am -- I wanted to
focus on the growth in VIP in the fourth quarter versus sequentially from the third quarter just in the market as a whole. Yet at the same time, the overall trend in mass was flat. And the -- and I'm -- I would have thought that there would be an inverse relationship 3 or 4 months ago. So I wanted you guys why you thought, particularly mass was -- has yet or is slow to take off given the openings.
Stephen Wynn:
Do you understand that question, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, I do. I think that if you look back over our history, Harry,
when new properties open, the junkets ramp up much faster than mass. They get quick injections of liquidity and hit the ground running. The mass market customers with new openings tend to not come right away and then find their way to the market more in -- a little more slowly. But junkets pretty much come out of the gate at 100%. So that's what -- I think what you saw in the fourth quarter was VIP revenue at $4.1 billion compared to $3.5 billion for the market. In the third quarter, you saw the new properties really powering the VIP market.
Stephen Wynn:
And then again, with mass, we're still hamstrung, Matt, don't you
think by the barriers that surround our property?
Matt Maddox:
We are, we are, and in areas from out the market overall. Mass
was -- it was pretty much flat from the third quarter, but that has always, when I look at the data, ramped up more slowly than VIPs with new properties opening for the -- due to what the junket operators, how they inject the liquidity straight into the market.
Stephen Wynn:
Does that get you, Harry? Is that your -- does that answer?
Harry Curtis:
It does. And, Steve, a question for you. You commented about how
bullish you were about making incremental investments in Macau and China. If you could put that comment into context versus the -- kind of the rhetoric that's been going on between our new administration and Xi Jinping's Beijing administration, it's been strained. What do you think the implications are for Wynn development in China, given this, at least, initial saber rattling?
Stephen Wynn:
I think that's probably a good word for it. I'm of the mind and I
have a reason to believe that this position is shared in Washington. As you know, I am acquainted with the administration. Several of us in my -- in our business, were sitting within 30- feet of President Trump when he took his oath of office on the platform last Friday. We all believe and I mean, all of us, that the most overwhelmingly important event geopolitically for the next 50 years is liaison, a constructive liaison between the People's Republic of China and the United States of America. That truth is undeniable. That dynamic is unquestioned. Now, there are issues that are real between 2 dynamic economies like China and the United States, undeniably. And there's a difference between free trade and predatory trade. The government in China understands that it has to do a better job with intellectual property rights. They do the best they can in China to create jobs and take people out of poverty, and that makes them very dynamic in the management of their economy with that single goal in mind. It affects everything from the way they treat energy, to create plants and factories, to how they manage the currency and the movement of currency and their trade policy. The United States has its own point of view on that subject, and the President has been really clear during the campaign that he wants to protect American jobs. Well, that's what they want to do in China as well. So there's going to have to be a reproach -- there's going to have to be an adjustment. But we basically do have intelligent people on both sides dealing with this. My own feeling is that it will resolve itself intelligently. You can make all kinds of examples. I mean, China controls its currency, but during QE1, 2 and 3, we devalued the U.S. dollar by close to 20%. So when the Fed in financing a deficit of close to $2 billion a day increases the money supply, well, that's the same sort of thing, we just do it differently than they do in a centrally-controlled government like Beijing. But a lot of the same things are happening on both sides of the ocean, and they're being done to protect the citizens of those 2 countries. Yet, there isn't a leader in America or a leader in China that doesn't understand that when the United States and the People's Republic of China come together on an intelligent basis, the world is a better place. I'm in a position to know that, that opinion is held in Washington and Beijing. And it gives me long-term confidence in spite of what happens short-term verbally. We mustn't confuse long-term United States policy with the short- term conversations that lead to its development. Do I sound like a politician? That's what happens. That's what happens. We just spent 4 days in Washington and you get brainwashed. It's a sickness but it's fascinating and the fact that America is going through a change is probably the greatest thing that's happened in my lifetime because we were so on the wrong track for the past 8 years. And I've made no secret about that, and I think we're in for better times for sure.
Harry Curtis:
To rein this back in towards -- or back towards Wynn in China,
with -- despite these -- the somewhat strained verbal sparring, you feel confident that additional investment in Macau is coming?
Stephen Wynn:
Absolutely.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen with
Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
So focusing on Macau in the fourth quarter, I'm comparing the
Wynn Macau property to Wynn Palace. Your VIP turnover was comparable but your mass drop at Wynn Palace was about 35% lower than Wynn Macau. As you continue to ramp up Palace, how do you think that should change?
Stephen Wynn:
Directly related to the physical barriers that surround our
properties, and that only gets better with each passing week and month this spring. That's my answer about that. There's an awful lot of people a few hundred yards from our property, but they can't quite get there, and they will, they positively will, just like they did in the past. Watch it change. I tell you that it will change. You can believe me or not believe me, but it's as simple as that.
Ian Coughlan:
It's also due to Wynn Macau having had 10 years to build up an
incredibly high stable of high-limit players, particularly in Encore and it will take time to build that at Wynn Palace. Seeing is believing. It gets better every week. We're seeing a buildup in our high-limit players and that will continue to grow over the coming months.
Thomas Allen:
All right. And then just, Stephen, December you sold some of your
Vegas retail to Crown Acquisitions, can you just talk about the rationale there?
Stephen Wynn:
Matt did that deal which was absolutely perfectly timed for us
and I'll let him describe it.
Matt Maddox:
So we looked at it for multiple reasons. #1, the people that we
partnered with are long-time retailers and in the business. And so we wanted to continue to control our retail. We sold a minority stake. We thought it was a good capital raise at a multiple that double where we trade on the market. And so not only was it the ability to raise capital to fund future projects at a really high multiple, but we brought in partners with a lot of experience in the luxury retail space to complement what we already do. So for us, it was really a win-win, and we still control it and consolidate the profits of the retail space because we have over 50% of the ownership.
Stephen Wynn:
And Haim Chera and his father, Stanley and his -- that whole
Chera family that makes up the Crown organization, they taught us a few things right off the bat. They gave us a few pointers in the nuance of how we do our leases that immediately increased our profitability.
Stephen Cootey:
Yes.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
I wanted to ask about -- you talked about how Palace is going to
ramp up. At your Analyst Day last year, I think you talked about a range of kind 6.30% to 8.50% which is a wide range. Is that still where you're thinking it will ramp? And then similarly, I think you had talked about Wynn Macau, that you were maybe factoring in, that it would be sort of 20% or 25% cannibalization. Is that still -- also, do you think that you will maybe sort of ramp to that on the downside at Wynn Macau? I know this quarter was obviously -- it was only down 7% in EBITDA, but just thinking about what your expectations were originally.
Stephen Wynn:
We don't think there's much cannibalization. That 25%, where did
that come from?
Stephen Cootey:
That was our analyst presentation showing the Wynn Palace, Wynn
Macau market study of over a year ago, back about in April.
Stephen Wynn:
Do you still believe it?
Stephen Cootey:
No. What we've seen is Wynn Macau has held up better than we
anticipated due to all the reasons we just talked about, the stickiness of the clientele and the 10 years of history. And the ramp-up of Wynn Palace, as we talked about in our last call, is taking longer. We actually didn't anticipate all of the artificial barriers, the construction, not being on the Cotai Connection, et cetera. So getting to the $600-plus million in 2017, it's going to take longer to ramp just -- than that just like we said on our last call, but Wynn Macau is actually performing better than we expected.
Robin Farley:
Oh yes. No, and I wasn't suggesting that, that would be the '17.
I understand that the property opened later and the ramp-up issues. I'm just wondering if that is still the range where you think it will ultimately ramp. And then similarly, do you think that as that ramps, the Wynn Macau will maybe get a little bit more cannibalization along the lines of what you had originally thought as well?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, Robin, with regard to the cannibalization, as Macau -- as
the Palace has ramped up, we haven't experienced a cannibalization downtown. So what we thought before but what we're seeing now are slightly different in a better way. So the only way that we can really know, Robin, is to watch the ramp-up of the Palace and to continually monitor the performance of the Encore Wynn facility in Macau. You're asking an interesting question. We are pretty much as you are, an observer of this. So far, it's been good news. But the biggest thing we're looking forward to, as these barriers and these obstructions come away, is the ramp up of our mass business. I would have thought, Robin, that the cannibalization would have occurred with the junket operators and that's -- because that's where we thought it would show up, and it didn't as yet. So if the mass market ramps up in Cotai, I don't think it's going to affect the mass market of downtown. That would be -- that would have been our -- that would have been where we looked for at the least. We would have looked for at the most in the junkets. And as you see, that's not what's happening. I think that there's more good news in the mass market in Cotai for sure because of all these other things we've talked about, and I'm encouraged by what we're seeing with the junkets. But I think that the Wynn Palace will get where it's supposed to get. I think Wynn Macau may stay better than we thought.
Robin Farley:
Great. That's helpful. And then…
Stephen Wynn:
Is that response...
Robin Farley:
Yes, that's just -- so I think what you're saying is that you do
still expect that -- that range that you talked about 9 months ago, it's still the range ultimately that you'll get to...
Stephen Wynn:
With one exception. With the exemption that we may not experience
the cannibalization levels we mentioned earlier.
Robin Farley:
Right. Right. No, that's great. And then last thing, just
quickly, what percent of rooms are sold for cash at the Cotai property?
Stephen Wynn:
What about that, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
So what we've experienced is very similar to the Cotai model.
We're doing around 60% of our rooms are casino -- directly casino related, more comp-related and 40% are tour and travel, FIT and wholesale.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank
of America.
Shaun Kelley:
I just wanted to go back to some of the sequential ramp-up you
guys are starting to see into Q1. From our seat, it's always getting a little harder to get a sense of what's going on with the market, kind of on a monthly basis. So I guess my question is in terms of that big ramp-up that you're continuing to see so far this year, how much of that would you characterize as the market versus Palace and your properties continuing to take share?
Stephen Wynn:
Ian, do you have a feel for that question?
Ian Coughlan:
Well, we've -- there was a very pleasant surprise at the end of
the last year and earlier into this year. We had a very strong Christmas and New Year as a market, a lot of holiday travel, a lot of holiday travel out of China, and revenues were excellent. And the sentiment about Chinese New Year is particularly strong. Last year, Chinese New Year, people were pretty duller entering it, not expecting much, but this year, at all levels of the business, people are anticipating a very, very strong Chinese New Year.
Stephen Wynn:
We are as well in Las Vegas. Maurice is here, and he can address
the -- this next few weeks.
Maurice Wooden:
So we've actually continued to see a great trend that we saw at
the end of last quarter or the last month of last year, into the earlier part of this year. And our parties and our events are full. And as far as the amount of credit coming in, it's been pretty robust. So we're pretty confident that we've seen the kind of activity that makes us feel comfortable that we've got the kind of business flow that we've been looking and anticipating for this year.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, and maybe just to switch gears for a follow-up. Now that
Palace seems to have stabilized a little bit and the ramp-up's looking pretty secure, could you maybe talk to us how you're thinking about leverage targets kind of into 2017 and how that might filter through to possibly looking at the dividend policy again, how that's sort of fits in your pecking order versus kind of growth capital?
Matt Maddox:
Well, Shaun, it's Matt. If you look at our balance sheet, we have
significant cash on the balance sheet. We have projects underway. So I would expect debt to remain fairly constant over the next couple of years, but EBITDA is growing. So we're not really interested in paying down a lot of debt right now. At the rate our EBITDA is growing, leverage is very comfortable, and we have lots of cash on the balance sheet for future projects.
Shaun Kelley:
So Matt, does that mean that, I guess, to the extent you're
generating positive operating cash flow, there is room to bump the dividend? Or would it be more fair to kind of think about being conservative right now, given just all -- just capital budgets and things that can tend to shift around?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, we have only 100 million shares outstanding, so bumping the
dividend conservatively is not a -- doesn't really change our financial posture. We're doing $0.50 a quarter and I suppose it's possible we could go to $0.75 or something, but we haven't
discussed that. We've been more focused on:
a, working on our
Macau operation and getting it stabilized; b, finishing what we're doing here in planning in Las Vegas; and c, putting final touches on everything that Bob DeSalvio is running in Boston. The gaming market in America is subject to change. Things happen and opportunities present themselves. I think that we probably want to take a look in the next few months and see how all that plays out before we tinker with any of the kinds of things you're talking about, like a dividend or anything like that. The market's moving, opportunities may present themselves and then that would have to be folded into our planning financially. I don't think there's just a hell of a lot more to say than that.
Stephen Cootey:
I think that's right.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Adam Trivison with
Gabelli.
Adam Trivison:
Given that you have meaningful operations on both the Peninsula
and in Cotai, I'm interested in your thoughts on how the opening of the PacOn ferry terminal may affect visitation trends in Macau?
Stephen Wynn:
What do you thing about that, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
I think any infrastructure that comes online is going to be good
for Macau. It allows more visitation. It'll certainly the Peninsula, the current ferry terminal and -- excuse me, it will help Cotai. The current ferry terminal in Cotai is very temporary in nature and not a good arrival experience. So we're looking forward to the opening of it.
Adam Trivison:
Great, that's helpful. And as a follow-up, based on some recent
filings, it looks like there were some small changes made to the Wynn Boston Harbor floor plans. Can you comment on those changes and maybe the thinking there?
Stephen Wynn:
DeSalvio, you haven't said anything today. Why don't you chime
in?
Robert J. DeSalvio:
Sure. Yes, we actually got some -- I think we got some very good
learning off of the opening of Palace, and we've been making shifts in terms of lightening up a little bit on the retail, increasing some food and beverage and meeting space opportunities because we thought that would be the right mix for the property. So we made those adjustments and they're going through final drawings, and we think it was the right move.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of David Katz with
Telsey Advisory Group.
David Katz:
I wanted to just -- I know it's been asked from a couple of
different angles, but I wanted to ask about the VIP business and the degree to which there is market lift. And specifically, how sustainable you believe the -- I think Ian used the word excellent in describing the trends. How sustainable you expect those to be versus how much is the trajectory of ramp-up in that business because you are now open?
Stephen Wynn:
Good question. And I understand why you ask it again. So there's
market trajectory and then there's our trajectory. We have an advantage. You remember a few moments ago, Ian used the word sticky, meaning the customer base was sticky at Wynn Macau. They like it there and it's hard to pull them out of that place because it appeals to them on many levels. And what happens is our trajectory is very much linked to the discovery that customers make of the superiority of our rooms, of the whole place and how much fun it is to stay there. So we tend to get stickier with better players with each passing month. And so, I have to say that we only make money by paying attention to our own business. What the market does is very important, of course, because we're part of it, but we're working on our own trajectory and we have a definite way of thinking about that and addressing it. If I understand your question correctly, there's my view.
David Katz:
In other words, you're comfortable with where your trajectory is
headed and the market helps to some degree, but it's like...
Stephen Wynn:
Well, sure because we spent $4.4 billion making sure that we
could feel comfortable. We didn't really leave this to salesmanship or verbalization by a CEO or any of the other senior people in the company. We did this by putting our money where our mouth is, and letting the property speak for itself. And as people discover it, the property speaks with a very loud, affirmative voice and says -- and beckons to people. When they discover our rooms, when they see the facility, they say, "Wow, I could stay here." Now, it takes a while for them to do that but they do it. They always have done it, in Nevada, in Mississippi, in New Jersey. They'll do it in Boston. It's always been the same. The history of our operations is a straight-line story, very much like the one that I keep repeating on these calls. And it's the only thing we understand.
David Katz:
Understood. If I can just ask one more about the construction
disruption that you discussed at the beginning. MGM is on one side and the degree to which they may be having an impact with construction disruption today versus when they open which is now later than what was anticipated. If you can just share some thoughts about sort of how you see that impact or lack thereof evolving over the remainder of the year, that would be helpful.
Stephen Wynn:
Okay. You bet I'd like to comment on that. In 1986, I bought the
property that is now known as the Mirage, and I built -- and it was big enough to hold Treasure Island and the Mirage over a period of time. But we built the hotel right up against the Caesars Palace borderline, on the south end of that assembly because we wanted to be near our neighbors. We thrive in a competitive environment. We do much better when there is more people around us, not less because there's a certain percentage of the people that go to these other hotels to which -- to whom we appeal in particular. It doesn't do us any good to be alone or isolated. We want to be snug up against our neighbors because the more rooms that surround us, the more people, the better chance we have of attracting them. So we anxiously await the arrival of SJM and MGM. The reason that the Wynn Macau was such an overwhelming whopping success was because of its proximity to SJM to the Arc, to -- what's the other place, Matt, something world?
Matt Maddox:
StarWorld.
Stephen Wynn:
StarWorld. We're surrounded downtown by these people and it
allows us to have an extraordinary, outrageous return on capital. I think we spent $750 million on the Wynn Macau, and we made like $100 million dollars a month at one point there. It's because of our proximity to our neighbors, it's because we're in the midst of so many visitors that we have the opportunity to exploit our competitive advantages of facility and service. So we're dying for MGM to open and SJM to get up and running. We welcome our neighbors. We're willing to build bridges between the properties, easy access. And that's one of the reasons why the Sands experiences such terrific results. It's because of their connectivity and their proximity to one another. And right now, we're not enjoying that but we will, I hope, in 2017 at some point, have the benefit of active, dynamic, well-constructed neighbors who each brings something to the world of visitors that makes Macau more powerful. That's the beauty of this development. Las Vegas and Macau prosper because of the development, not in spite of it. And we ride that wave like a surfer. So we're hopeful that they get open in the fourth quarter or the third, whenever. We haven't anything lately, maybe you have. I haven't heard when SJM is supposed to open. Does anybody in my team know what SJM's announcements are? It's a mystery. Hopefully, maybe when they issue their earnings, they'll talk about it or the investment community will ask them. Does anybody on this call know when SJM is supposed to be finished? Do you sir?
David Katz:
I do not.
Stephen Wynn:
Yes. Ian, do you know what the latest completion dates are on our
neighbors?
Ian Coughlan:
Sometime in 2018 for the Lisboa Palace and all therein. And for
MGM, they announce the second half of this year.
Stephen Wynn:
But it's '18 for SJM?
Ian Coughlan:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, they're on our south border. That's the least...
Ian Coughlan:
What's going to be interesting is we're going to have a quartet
of quality on the west side of Cotai, Steve. You'll have ourselves, MGM and SJM, and then with City of Dreams across the road with their new Morpheus Tower, you have 4 high-quality projects all within walking distance of each other. So that would become its own hub in Cotai; the first stop on the light rail after the new PacOn ferry terminal in the airport. So the future's very bright for West Cotai.
Stephen Wynn:
I wish it was true in Las Vegas, across the street from us, where
Packard [ph] was going to build and what I think the Malaysian folks are going to do it. We love having neighbors. The SJM facility is on the south side of our property and that's not where the light rail is. The biggest interference we've got is on the west side which is where Melco and MGM and our front door is, our lake and our gondola and all of our other access points. So we get our biggest slug of reliefs when MGM opens and when they take down the barricades on the west side in front of our gondola and our -- in front of our presentation. SJM opening in 2018 probably is -- their construction is the least impactful of the problem that we've dealt with this year in terms of the barricades. It's the west side of the property that really is important to us and that's where we're looking for good news in the second half or sooner.
Operator:
And there are no more questions at this time.
Stephen Wynn:
Thank you, everybody. Look forward to talking to you in 3 months,
and we'll have maybe more interesting stuff to talk about then. Meantime, have a nice time.
Operator:
Thank you for participating in today's conference call. You may
now disconnect.
Executives:
Steve Cootey - Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President and Treasurer Steve Wynn - Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Matt Maddox - President Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A. Bob DeSalvio - ‎Senior Vice President, Development, Wynn Resorts Development
Analysts:
Joe Greff - JPMorgan Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Robin Farley - UBS Jon Oh - CLSA Harry Curtis - Nomura David Katz - The Telsey Group Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Felicia Hendrix - Barclays
Operator:
Good afternoon. My name is Karen and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Third Quarter 2016 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn today's call over to Mr. Steve Cootey, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, sir.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden, myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams of our Las Vegas, Macau, and Boston properties. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the Company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden, myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams of our Las Vegas, Macau, and Boston properties. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
On this call today, we're going to be dealing with a good deal of technical information and I will be referring and having input in the call from Mr. Cootey, Mr. Ian Coughlan in Macau, and Mr. Maddox. I personally have been focused very heavily on the finishing touches of all of our construction and fit outs that are associated with the Massachusetts property and stuff that we are doing here in Las Vegas. But I think we should start off today by talking about Macau and Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau, because the Palace is now several weeks old and underway. The first thing I would mention is that, first of all, we are very happy with the way the property turned out. We finished and completely closed the cost of the place with our contractor Leighton at US$4.4 billion and that is now behind us. There is something about our property in Cotai that I want to frame this conversation today. Our 52 or so acres there is surrounded on all four sides by streets. On the east is the staging yard for the light rail system that resembles a monorail that seeks to bring people from the airport and the Cotai ferry terminal to the various hotels in Cotai. That project has been underway for several years, experienced some developmental complexities and problems and delays, and is now scheduled for completion in a few years. The staging area and the construction area for the light rail system covers our entire east side and is across the street from our property, the entire parcel, on the east side. Next to it is the airport. The light rail system goes from the ferry terminal and the airport along the entire north side of our property and then makes a 90-degree left-hand turn and goes down the west side of our property. Across the street on the west side of our property is the City of Dreams, the Melco development, on the right, and then as the light rail proceeds, it passes at the midpoint of our front of our property, a street going perpendicularly west to Venetian. On the other side, representing the other half of our western front, is the construction job of MGM, and then on our Southside we have the construction job of SJM's hotel that is scheduled to open in the future. MGM is scheduled to open this spring, at the end of May or the beginning of June at last check. So what we have is an anomalous situation where all four sides of our property are currently the - being enclosed by either barricades or construction blockades of one kind or another. It has tended to isolate our property on all four sides and it's made access to the Palace temporarily highly encumbered, crossing the street or getting through these barricades that have been erected by MGM and by the folks who are building the light rail system, and it comes to its first stop with escalators and bridges right in the midpoint of our front yard where our gondola station is. And, of course, in the short term it has turned out to be a disadvantage having all the barricades and the construction on all four sides, but in the long term, of course, it is very advantageous to us. But in that context, it has represented a handicap in the access that the public has, both in buses, in cars, or taxicabs. And we have worked in the last month or so in conjunction with the government on trying to mitigate these substantial barricades that enclose our property. And the government has been understanding and sympathetic to our situation and has promised to ameliorate the situation in the next several months. But it is at the moment a handicap for us and one we are forced to deal with. Scheduling for all of this was supposed to be done when we opened at the time that we broke ground on the hotel, but, as I mentioned a moment ago, there have been delays in all of this, both in the construction of our two neighboring hotels and of the light rail itself. With that in mind, I still think it would be constructive for us to review the performances of these properties and address issues of cannibalization of startups and ramp-ups and that sort of thing. I would add to that conversation one other element, from my perspective. For the past 40-odd years that we have been building these hotels, and the Cotai hotel was number 12 for us, we have followed a philosophy of how to open major destination hotels. And I will describe it as follows. We open a hotel without any real marketing support or pressure because we are very curious to see what its naked, un-stimulated kind of revenues are. And then in the months following the opening, we do a low-keyed opening, in the months following the opening. We constructively and with a very targeted approach ramp up and institute marketing programs both in hotel occupancy and casino revenue and that sort of thing in a very layered fashion that allows us to protect our price. By not throwing the kitchen sink at a place when we open, we risk less than dramatic instant results, but we also protect our price and instead resort to a more progressive and orderly buildup of our promotional and marketing approaches, based upon what we see when we first open. With that general philosophical framework in mind, I'll let Mr. Maddox, Mr. Cootey, and Ian Coughlan talk about what's happened since August 22. Matt, do you want to go first?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So, I think as Steve said, the ramp-up at Wynn Palace is clearly taking a little longer than we expected, and likely will, due to the circumstances surrounding the property. But when we look at what's going on at Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau, comparing September at Wynn Palace, which was our first full month, to October, which we just completed, we have seen in our volume metrics that turnover, mass drop and slot handle, those increased sequentially from September to October by about 20%, which was in line with the market that also increased from September to October by around 19%. So Wynn Palace each day is continuing to gain traction in the Cotai market. Wynn Macau also experienced the same increase from September to October in its volume metrics of about 20%. So while the process is taking longer, we are maintaining our share in these markets, and in September combined, we were on a normalized basis roughly 13.5% market share. In October, we didn't hold as well in the VIP segment, but from a volume standpoint we have maintained that share. So, we are happy with the progress, but believe it is going to take longer than we anticipated, due to the challenges in our location. Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
We have been open in Cotai for just over 10 weeks. We had a very well-executed opening of all facilities. Customer feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Rooms and food and beverage particularly are a new standard for the market. Despite all of the challenges that Steve referred to with the light rail and resort buildings around the property, visitation has been good, particularly on the weekends. We are very focused on ramping up premium mass, which we believe is a real edge giver, given our service and our facility. When we look at VIP turn for the two properties over at Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace, we have actually doubled our VIP turn versus the previous 60 days since we opened, so the junkets have managed to backfill downtown very effectively. We have a new junket opening at Wynn Palace on November 5. We are also introducing some casual junkets, so we're building up that side of the business. We are actively bringing back customers that are already in Cotai that were previously Wynn customers, and we're just learning and adapting to a very competitive market. Seeing is believing and people experiencing the property is really going to help us. We have made a number of significant casino floor changes with game mixes. We are watching how people are adapting to the property, what they enjoy. We have got a lot of new promotions to animate the casino that we've been introducing. We are driving occupancy post the holidays; occupancy has grown 10 points in October. We finished at 81%, and we continue to bring the occupancy up. Our food and beverage offer and the variety of offer we are altering and changing, again to meet the customer need. We have been tackling the bus program. We have effectively doubled our buses that are on the road, picking up people from different entry points into Macau and within the city itself. We have introduced a taxi incentive program, which has proved to be extremely effective, and we are going to be coming part of the Cotai Connection, which connects all the properties in Cotai from a bus travel perspective. At the same time, we're looking at post-opening cost base management. When you open, there is always areas that need to be tweaked and cut back on, and looking back downtown at the cannibalization aspect, pretty much what we perceived was going to happen has happened. There has been a fairly significant impact on our direct VIP downtown because we have a lot of Wynn players that wanted to come and experience the new property, the junkets backfill very well, as I discussed already. On the mass, we are less affected. Our customers downtown seem to be very peninsula downtown centric; while some of them have experienced our new property, they have been very sticky downtown. And overall, downtown is pretty settled and we're just growing business uptown. Our competitors are smart people. A lot of the ways that we bring business to the new property is personalized selling, seeing is believing and we will take care of the players that come to the property and bring new people in over the coming months.
Steve Wynn:
Thanks. Steve, do you have anything to add?
Steve Cootey:
No, I think Ian and Matt covered it.
Steve Wynn:
Pardon me?
Steve Cootey:
I think Ian and Matt have covered it.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. Is there anything else that, I don't know. Having discussed China, I would imagine the questions about China would be appropriate at this moment, but I want to remind everybody that Bob DeSalvio is on the call in Massachusetts and can update us on that. Bob, you want to take a moment before we take questions to tell us where we're at.
Bob DeSalvio:
Sure, thanks, Steve. We have gotten off to a really good start on construction. As most everyone knows, we began on August 3, and at this point the foundations are done in the areas of the central utility plant, the garage, the hotel, the casino sections of the building, and we have now started the mass excavation of the dirt from the parking garage area. That represents three floors below the main section of the building and that has gone very well. We are starting to pour the slabs in the back of the house, in central utility plant areas, and we expect on-site steel deliveries in December and by first quarter of next year, we will be standing steel in those -- the back of the house and the central utility plant area. So, so far, a very good fall construction season. Weather has been great. Very -- actually, a little bit of rain, and so that has helped us move things along. So, about 325 workers now currently on site and we are running right on schedule. So all good news on the construction front, Steve.
Steve Wynn:
We have been polishing the invitations, and in the food and beverage promenade and all of those things, we have been able to interest some very substantial local personalities with various forms of food and beverage. And we are in the process of making room for them to join in so that the facility is very locally oriented at the top end with the kinds of people that are very popular in Boston, with the Boston public already. And we think that adds to our general appeal as we go forward in a couple years with that project. So I think generally that's what's going on. I have spent my time in continuing the planning and the refining of the development of our real estate in Las Vegas, and that planning process is continuing. One of the most interesting things in the 49 years I have been doing this is that the golf course and the available real estate in the company present so many options that making these final decisions and choices has been extremely challenging and an awful lot of fun, too. With our land, our water, and our location, we are seeking to come to a final layout of all of our facilities that put us in a much stronger position to be a very dominant force in all aspects of non-casino revenue. I think that I want to share something with the people on the call. Ever since 1989 when we opened the Mirage, the facilities that we have built have always broken the record for casino revenue in Las Vegas and in America. Our casinos have won more money than any other gambling floor in the United States and in the world, with the exception of Asia, Hong Kong, Macau market, and Singapore. I have made this point in previous phone calls that in spite of the fact that we break the annual revenue for casino numbers in Nevada, we have always had more non-casino revenue, starting with the Mirage. When it went through $500 million, we had $600 million in non-casino revenue. When we did $700 million sat - $600 million, rather, at Bellagio we did $800 million in non-casino revenue. And at Wynn when we went through $700 million, we had $800 million or $900 million in casino revenue, and then, finally, over $1 billion with the Encore Wynn facility when the casino revenue went through $800 million. So, therefore, there is always been this pattern of 48%, 47% casino, 53%, 54% non-casino. In September in this hotel in Las Vegas, I saw something that was even surprising for me, but very encouraging in a point that I will make in a moment. In the month of September, our casino revenue was $1.870 million a day, well over $50 million in that 30-day period. That was probably the biggest number in the world, except for Singapore and Macau, $1.870 million a day. But what was dazzling to me privately and personally was that our non-casino revenue was $3.340 million a day, and if you normalize hold percentage, because we played a little lucky, the ratio of gaming to non-gaming in the number one casino in Las Vegas was 2 to 1. I take that development as follows. It tells us that these 43 million people a day -- a year that come to Las Vegas, 800,000 odd people a week, are spending more money and have more disposable income for the non-casino aspects, which are really the drivers in our industry. And therefore, I am heartened by the fact that we have almost unlimited possibility of expanding in convention and other related business on our property in Las Vegas. And that has made the design development process even more challenging and exciting as we exploit our undeveloped real estate in various parts of this assembly on the strip in Las Vegas. Having made that point and hopefully shared that insight with you, I'll turn the questioning over to the folks on the call.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] And your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff of JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Good morning. Just on the topic of Wynn Palace, and Steve, you talked about how you're dealing with the handicap of having construction impediments on all sides of the property, in your earlier comments you talked about having discussions with the government. Can you share with us how the government can help here? And then, with respect to work that you can do without perhaps the aid of the government, does that require meaningful additional CapEx or OpEx to work around those issues?
Steve Wynn:
Well, a good question. In our conversations with the government, we have demonstrated with photographs and examples of how critically impaired the whole front approach was from the body, from the mass body of Cotai development, and they understood that completely. And we've offered some suggestions on how, especially on the west side, which is where all the other hotels are at the moment, how they could help us out in creating crosswalks and opening these barricades and stuff like that. And I think Ian, you have been -- you have received a favorable response?
Ian Coughlan:
So, what has actually happened, Steve, is the construction work that was taking place on the light rail system directly in front of our property had completely stalled, but the government had been assisting us and they fired up the contractor to finish that aspect of the light rail system. There is a station right across the road from us as well, which requires a lot more work, but the actual light rail viaduct is being finished as we speak, and that causes a lot of havoc on the road beneath. So I believe in the next six to 10 weeks we will see quite a bit of progress. So the government have been listening and they are helping us out with the frontage of the property.
Steve Wynn:
The second part of your question, about significant CapEx, I spent the month of August there and I have been back again since, and my take on this is that one of the facilities that we have downtown that is extremely well received, called Red 8, which is casual dining, we did in Cotai, but we did it on a scale that, based upon the customer reaction, is not adequate. So what we are doing on one side of the mass gaming area is building a larger Red 8 to handle the demand that we have had, and that is going to take several months to install, but we had the room to do it and we're going to increase that. So as far as a project goes, that restaurant modification represents what I think is an investment we're going to make of several million dollars. It is not earthshaking, but it is very significant. We have also added -- we had two spaces in our retail area that we held to ourselves so that we could do exactly what we are doing now, and it's a pattern we've followed. We always leave a number of spaces either unassigned or temporarily occupied so that we can react to the surprises or the things we learn after the place opens. And so, we had some spaces and we filled them with things that we could move easily that were our own, like a luggage store that we operate ourselves. We actually left 15,000 square feet empty. But shelled in a critical location and hid it with a false wall so that we would have that capacity and that element to resort to if we wanted to, because each one of these hotels takes on a personality of its own that is, in many cases, surprising or unexpected after the public gets possession of it. So, the casual dining additions that we are adding don't represent serious capital in the scheme of things, but there are alterations we're going to make in terms of casual dining in the months ahead. Matt, did you have anything you want to add to that?
Matt Maddox:
No, I think that's exactly right.
Steve Wynn:
Okay, is that…
Joe Greff:
And then that answered my question. Thank you. And then as a follow-up not related to Wynn Palace, there has been recent press in Japan about some desire to restart the casino proposal, which I know has gone really nowhere in the past. Can you give us a sense what your sense is where that might be going now with any? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
We're following it carefully, Joe, and there does seem to be more momentum now than there has been in the past. The parties seem to be coalescing behind the idea and there seems to be momentum. I can't really tell you if it's going to happen or not, but it does feel like there is definitely more action in Japan now than there have been in the past six Diet sessions.
Joe Greff:
Thank you.
Operator:
And your next question comes from Carlo Santarelli of Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Afternoon. Just as it pertains to the Palace and you guys think about the ramp from here, when you think about the VIP business in the 3Q, as well as your mass business, is it fair to look at the VIP segment and say this obviously will ramp faster and we should expect similar drop per day metrics going forward or do you think with some junket tweaks and stuff there is a lot of room to move there? And a similar question on the mass side, just in terms of how you guys expect to build that business going forward, obviously, with some of the construction and some of the other marketing that you will start to turn on now, how do you anticipate that ramping?
Matt Maddox:
So, Joe, this is Matt. I think clearly the VIP business at all openings ramps the fastest, just given the nature of the junket operators and then bringing their customers in and the liquidity in that business that is immediately injected. As Ian laid out, we are planning on growing that business going forward by adding a junket operator and some casual junkets in the relative near term. On the mass side, we are very focused on capturing our fair share, which is -- or exceeding our fair share of the premium mass business, which is what we've always done. And that is that hand-to-hand combat, acquiring the Cotai players one at a time. And so, we are very focused on that. It will take longer to ramp that business up, but as customers come in and experience Palace, we believe they're going to become Wynn Palace customers.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, Matt, and then if I could just follow up on that. When you think about kind of the delta between promos on Cotai relative to the Peninsula, I think you guys were about 25% on Cotai of mass revenue in the quarter. Is that how you are thinking about the strategy there from a promo and discount standpoint with respect to Palace?
Matt Maddox:
Carlo, I'll let Ian jump in, but with only 40 days in the quarter under our belt, we plan on growing both significantly. VIP ramped faster than mass, and Cotai is little more promotional than the Peninsula, but it's not a lot more promotional.
Ian Coughlan:
Yes, I don't think there is a huge - there isn't a huge variability between what we've been doing downtown and what we are doing at Wynn Palace. We're seeing what works and what doesn't work as well as we thought, and tweaking it, but I don't think it involves huge additional expenditure.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood.
Steve Cootey:
Carlo, this is Steve. Year-over-year promos are effectively flat between Wynn Macau and the Palace.
Carlo Santarelli:
Yes, I was referring more to just the level at the Palace in the future and how you think about that run rate going forward, but I think you guys answered.
Steve Wynn:
Next?
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley of UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great. I was wondering if you could talk about whether the results in Macau will impact the timing and/or budget for your Las Vegas development, the Wynn Park, just kind of how we should think about that relationship?
Steve Wynn:
I don't know, Robin. From my point of view, they're completely separate conversations. Design development in Macau took place years ago, and although we tweaked the property as we go forward, it is fairly mundane compared to the conceptual exercise on the kind of thing we're talking about with Wynn Park.
Robin Farley:
I guess I meant not so much from a design perspective as just that Macau's cash flow would be what is financing Wynn Park, and does that therefore change your budget if the cash flow is not coming in at maybe where you would have thought it was…
Steve Wynn:
Oh, I see. I see what you mean. Well, since Macau is in its -- the Palace is in its infancy and just beginning to get rolling, I must – I've got to remind you that the lead time on design development on a thing like Wynn Park is substantial. I mean, we spend as much as a year or two getting to the point where we can budget and start to break ground, and I'm in that six months. There are parts of the Wynn Park development that are going to kick in very early. There is - if we go according to plan, and that has to do with the addition of meeting rooms and ballrooms on property that is part of Wynn and Encore now and not on the golf course, as we up our convention profile, our meeting space, convention, and ballroom profile substantially. And then there is the lagoon, the new rooms that are going to be available on both the north and south side of Wynn Park, and the other features that go around the lake. And then the issue is adjacent properties that will be available for smaller operators on Paradise Road and the potential for exhibit space. So, balancing all of these things, I don't have a scheduling problem as much as I have a planning problem, but each of these things on our early investigation have overwhelming self-justification financially. So we don't really worry about financing them, if that's the direction of your question.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Jon Oh of CLSA
Jon Oh:
You were carrying roughly about $100 million of annual excess cost for the Peninsula property before you opened Palace. Could you tell us that, the opening cost for Palace, are you -- have you fully shifted the additional cost load over to Cotai already?
Matt Maddox:
Yes, we have. The Wynn Macau daily run rate is now about $1.1 million and Wynn Palace is in the neighborhood of $1.5 million, and if you look in the past, Wynn Macau was closer to $1.4 million.
Jon Oh:
Okay. Thank you. And if I could follow up with a question on Palace, we have seen some chatter of late that perhaps the VIP play in the Palace picked up a little bit and that partially explains what we saw in October. Could you comment on whether or not you sense that this is a structural pickup in VIP play or is this just a temporary event that is driven by the euphoria of a new opening? And could you also maybe comment loosely around some of the recent events we saw in China that we saw one of your competitors in Australia, where they have gone through some issues in China as it relates to VIP marketing. How do you stitch all these mosaic together and how do you read the VIP business as it stands right now? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
That's a good one, but I think it's two parts. And the first one was, was the step-up in VIP, the junket business, euphoric or was it structural? I think that part was the first part of your question. Who wants to take a crack at that one?
Ian Coughlan:
There is - both of the elements are correct. When you have new openings in the marketplace, you do get more VIP business, and there does appear to have been a lift in VIP generally. We have obviously seen our junket business downtown backfill as we open new junkets with the same operators at Wynn Palace, so it is certainly stronger. How that maintains over the coming months, we will see. The opening of new property certainly adds to the euphoria, as Jon described.
Steve Wynn:
We are very close historically to the events you have asked about to have a lot of perspective on them. Time is going to straighten out, I think, the answer to your first question. The second one has to do with the remarkable events where 28 people were detained from Crown in Australia. I know very little about that, and I think I speak for my colleagues, and because we know so little and because these processes are opaque in many cases, I think the only people that can give you intelligent fix on that would be the folks at Crown. We have known -- I can add this. We have known for many years -- we have been there 15 years now -- that marketing and promotion in mainland China is not permitted, so we don't have our employees doing that. So, other than that, I know what I read in the paper and I think that is the same thing you read the paper, and I don't have anything constructive to add to it.
Jon Oh:
Okay, thank you.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis of Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Good afternoon. I wanted to go back to your marketing expectations. For the Palace, do you have any plans to begin dialing up your outreach to wholesalers, groups, associations?
Steve Wynn:
Yes.
Matt Maddox:
So, Harry, we are, if you look at Wynn Palace, about 30% of the hotel business right now for us is cash business, and we are actively engaging travel agents and wholesalers and putting together great packages, not based on price, but based on combining food, spa, et cetera, because the Cotai market is between 30% and 40% retail. So, we're actively moving on that front.
Harry Curtis:
Okay, and then…
Steve Wynn:
We didn't do it when we opened; we did it after.
Ian Coughlan:
Seeing is believing. We have scheduled 600 FAM [ph] trips on the property since we opened, between opening and the end of the year, and our tour and travel business is growing very nicely. We ran 81% in October and we believe we can lift that even further.
Harry Curtis:
And my second question just has to do with if you might maybe give us some way of developing expectations for sequential margin improvement for the property. It was a little lower than we thought at the outset, but that can be explained by just incremental opening expenses. What expectations do you have for margin lift over the next nearly 6 six to 18 months?
Matt Maddox:
Harry, I think 6 to 18 months, that's the right time frame to look at this. So, come positive, Wynn Palace's makeup will be lots of premium mass and high-margin cash non-gaming business. So, we would expect our margins to get closer in line with our downtown property, in that high 20s EBITDA margins, but that's going to take us time and Ian is doing a lot of work on rationalizing the expenses inside the property as well.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. Very good, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of David Katz of The Telsey Group.
David Katz:
Hello, everyone. I wanted to ask about the setup for the Palace and, Steve, I appreciate your description of the situation at the beginning. When did it become clear or obvious that the issues that are going on, on each side were evident, meaning they sound like things that would have been - that are long-term projects that have been in place for quite some time, and would we have known about them six months or 12 months ago, and essentially what has changed?
Steve Wynn:
We certainly knew all during construction that the light rail was under construction. The sequential delays that took place and the problems the governments have had in resolving their own problems with the light rail construction have been a moving thing. And so you know, and we knew that and we certainly saw that everybody knew that SJM was under construction on one side and MGM on the other. MGM thought they were going to be done earlier, as did a lot of the people in our neighborhood. I don't know that it's a bad thing that they are going to open when they open, instead of earlier. But we never had terrific insight as to the status of our competitors' scheduling. We can read what they say on their quarterlies, but they are subject to the same kind of contingent events that we were with regard to construction and completion dates in China. So to that extent, we looked around us and everything that was happening was fairly obvious. There wasn't anything we could do about it. There was no dynamic action that was available to us, and we were hoping that the situation would improve as we approached the summer months when we were getting ready to open the property. I myself didn't realize how critical the blockade was until I went there in August. I was there in the month of August for three or four weeks before the place opened, and I didn't realize how critical it was until I tried to go across the street to City of Dreams, and you took your life in your hands trying to get through the barricade and cross the street because of the traffic. There is no crossing. All of that is tied up at the moment at the middle where the construction is taking place for the escalators. See, there is a big terminal for the -- a big stop right in front of our hotel on the light rail. As I mentioned, it is the first stop from the ferry terminal, and they have built a bridge that goes from the west side of the street, which is MGM and City of Dreams, to the east side of the street, which is us and our gondola station. I didn't realize how big the holes were and how -- the primitive state of the construction with the walls they built. And I guess there is nothing to say except it is what it is. We weren't in charge of that construction. We didn't have a dialogue going with the builder. This situation happened -- when we were opening the hotel on the Peninsula, on the east side of our hotel between us and StarWorld and Arc, there was a street that originally was a sewer canal, and they were going to make a street out of it and cover the sewer canal. And five months before our hotel opened, it was still a canal, an open trench. And then, all of a sudden, in a space of 12 weeks, a street emerged. It was an amazing rapid transformation, which proved that the Chinese people could do -- the Chinese government could do pretty much what it wanted at a speed that was quite remarkable under certain circumstances. Apparently with this light rail, they haven't been able to get the same kind of acceleration, and I believe they are trying to get that fixed up. But I didn't really know what to expect as I looked at the construction during the -- of the surrounding properties and the light rail while we were building our place. We were heavily focused inside on our own problems. I don't know if my answer is helpful to you, but does that deal with your question?
David Katz:
It does. And if I can just follow that up in a two-part follow-up, I assume -- it sounds as though you are pleased with or there is nothing that's changed on the inside of the property. And as we think about the ramp-up that will have a little different trajectory than we may have thought. If you could just talk about the balance between generating revenue and profit and profitability as this trajectory evolves over the next five, six quarters, just so we can think about our models the right way, that would be helpful. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Well, okay, here's the way I would approach that. When we opened the Wynn Peninsula, we got to $1 million a day on the 12th month, and starting at $500,000 a day, $600,000 a day in EBITDA. And it was slower getting to $1 million a day, but it was much quicker getting to $2 million a day or $3 million a day. And the reason is s that this in our kind of property, the acquisition of clientele, of customers, is done sort of one at a time. There is an old phrase, eagles don't flock, you got to catch them one at a time. So laying the groundwork for building the clientele for a hotel that is exemplary, that is unique, and the Palace turned out to be the most beautiful job we have ever done by far. The rooms are exquisite. The place is absolutely magnificent physically. Now, you introduce such a property to people and they like it or they don't. You asked yourself, who are the customers, who do you build the place for, and you do so with a conviction that when people see something wonderful and special that they will like it and they will be loyal to it or they will come back again and again. So the exposure of the building at first aggregates. It compounds on itself. And we got to -- the first day we opened the place, we made $1 million and we're operating at $500,000, $600,000, $700,000 level or something like that in October. And I expect that to climb on a steady basis, because I believe that the people will respond to our product, as they have for the past 49 years in Atlantic City, Fremont Street, the strip in Las Vegas, the Peninsula in Macau, and every place else we have ever been. This property is following the same pattern that I have observed in our developments over the years. I guess you have to use your own arithmetic when you do these things. I don't want to make a lot of promises or puffy statements. I make one statement, that it is the most magnificent hotel we have ever built, and clearly, clearly, the most dramatically elegant and beautiful hotel in China, or maybe anywhere in the world, for that matter. Now, what will public acceptance of it be? Well, based upon our experiences so far, pretty good. But tackling the mass market and the premium mass market, as Matt mentioned before, is sort of a sequential process. You have to expose the place to people for them to find out what's in it, but in order to do that, they have to be able to get there. And right now, it is a bit challenging. And that's temporary, of course. It will go away. And these very things that have complicated our launch are the very things that will underwrite its future. Having that light rail and being the first stop is a cool thing. So I'm looking forward to it, but in the meantime we will deal with the shortfall or the inconvenience of the moment as best we can. Am I responding to you properly?
David Katz:
Absolutely.
Steve Wynn:
I have never spoken to you before and I want to make sure. There is a whole bunch of us. We're sitting around this table. We've got all the information here, and at moments like this when you launch a new project, especially one as ambitious and in a market as complicated in many respects as China, you want to try and give as much clarity as possible to the moment and not exaggerate or feather your nest or make promises. Personally, I would rather under promise and over deliver whenever possible. Ian, I don't know if you want to add anything to it or Steve? You have your own opinions fellas. You can say what you think.
Ian Coughlan:
Just going back to the light rail itself, paradoxically the more progress they make, the more painful it is for us. In order to finish it, they have had to close large sections of that road and make the property difficult to access. So we will tolerate the pain until the end of the year or the turn of the year, and then things will improve.
David Katz:
By early next year?
Steve Wynn:
They are telling us that there are some things they are going to do rather quickly, as far as crosswalks and things like that, but we literally couldn't get across. We had to take a very risky approach and dodge cars for me to get to the City of Dreams. I hadn't expected that it would be at this stage when we opened in August, but there it is.
David Katz:
Perfect. Thank you for your answers.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley of Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hey. Good afternoon, everyone. I guess during - right after the opening, or not too far after the opening, there was a pretty significant management change in Cotai, and I was just wondering if you could comment a little further on. Is there any difference in strategy moving forward as you think about balancing what's going on at Peninsula and Wynn Palace or is everything, generally speaking, still as you originally planned it?
Steve Wynn:
Yes, everything is as we originally planned it. The Cotai property was built to appeal to the most discriminating person that would come to China, the premium mass customer and the VIP and the top end of the mass, even just below what we call premium mass. The idea was that this was going to be the place of choice for people that cared about their choice. And, so, that was always the program. I think if you ask me to be candid about any adjustment that I thought we needed, it was that I wanted to see more -- after the opening, as I looked at our neighbors and I looked more closely at our own trade and the response to various outlets in our hotel, I realized because we were so overrun with the casual dining things that we offered that we needed more of them. I think, if anything, I think I might've underestimated with my colleagues the amount of casual dining that we needed, compared to the other folks. They have dozens and dozens of these casual dining restaurants throughout Cotai. We had two or three, but I found out with the mass of people, it is not enough so we have got to increase that. And we are doing that in two specific locations adjacent to the casino straightaway. Now we have got to get through the approval of the government to do the work, and we're doing the drawings lickety-split as fast as we can to get that job done. As a matter of fact, we're going to put up construction barricades and get on with it immediately, but that's -- I guess if you asked me what surprised or what did I see after the place gave birth and the public came in, I immediately, and the rest of us, Ian, we all recognized we needed to up our casual dining capacities beyond what we originally thought. And it was pretty easy to do, actually, because we had anticipated that there would be something that we wanted to add or change after opening, which is why I left those spaces available for it. And now we're going to take advantage of it, based upon what we learned since August 22. Other than that, it is pretty much the same thing as we thought before.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. I appreciate the candor on that. And then, as a follow-up, and I know it's been addressed in different forms, but maybe to ask it outright, Matt, I think you mentioned the expense run rates where you are at today with Palace at $1.5 million a day and Peninsula down to $1.1 million a day. Is that generally a level that you are comfortable with, moving forward, and is there any change in either staffing or promotion that would be material to those dollar numbers moving forward?
Steve Wynn:
This is Steve. I would add one thing. We are going to add - we have the tables, but we find that our mass demand at the Peninsula, we need to increase some more dealers because our utilization is too high. So we want to increase the amount of tables that are actually active during more hours. It is not a significant number. But I don't know how much that will affect the run rate.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, I think that the $1.1 million down at Wynn Macau, because it is slightly less than that now, will be in range. And then Wynn Palace, we haven't been open long enough. That is currently where we are running, between $1.5 million and $1.6 million, and I know that we are looking at rationalizing some of those expenses, but I wouldn't expect a very large decline from that level. In particular, as sales ramp up in the retail outlets and everywhere else, you will start to see the cost -- the variable cost ramp up. So, I think that those numbers will likely be in line. Ian, do you want to comment?
Ian Coughlan:
That's exactly right.
Steve Wynn:
Okay.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Thank you very much.
Operator:
And your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix. Ms. Hendrix, please announce the name of your company.
Felicia Hendrix:
Barclays. Thank you. So, I have a question for Ian and then, Steve, I have a question for you. Ian, so if we take everything that you have said on the call and acknowledged that it's an early read for Wynn Palace, and also the challenges that you face. I am just wondering if we look back to the assumptions that were put forth at the investor day this past spring, how reasonable are those EBITDA assumptions for 2017 for Wynn Macau and Wynn Palace? Can you put those in context with what we know today?
Steve Wynn:
Maybe, Matt wants to take that call.
Matt Maddox:
Sure, I think what we have clearly said today is that the ramp-up is happening slower than we anticipated, so while those numbers we still believe in, 2017 is likely not the year for those numbers. That should be, if you look at the competitors out at Cotai, where these properties, once they settle in, are able to -- the profit that they are able to generate. But I think until we get the construction issues settled and some of our new casual dining outlets finished, at that point we should start to get to those numbers.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay, that's helpful and definitely kind of an anticipated answer, given everything that you said so far. Thank you for that.
Steve Wynn:
Ian, you want to add anything to what Matt said?
Ian Coughlan:
No, I think that's fair. It is going to take us time to ramp up. Everybody is aware of that. We will have a better read of it by the end of the year.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay, thanks. And Steve, just kind of a bigger-picture question. I was just wondering if you could comment on the premier visitor, the Premier visit to Macau earlier this month. Everything that came out of that visit sounded supportive. And just among the policies announced, do you see anything that could benefit the gaming industry, per se?
Steve Wynn:
Well, the central government always supports the financial health, the employment security, and the welfare of the citizens in the special administrative region, and they repeat that, whether it is the Premier or Xi Jinping himself. My visits to Beijing only reinforce that with the people that I have had the privilege of discussing China with. I go there on occasion to broaden my perspective on China because, after all, Macau is part of it. In terms of the implications to local policy and, to a certain extent, visa policies, I think that you have to look at the arc of all aspects of the central government behavior or actions and take that into account with the local government's reaction and their independent actions. Because if you are in Beijing, they will tell you that the SAR is autonomous, that it is self-governing, and that although they pay close attention and want to support it, that they look to the government of Macau to run Macau. And we have this interaction with them on a regular basis. Usually it is on detailed stuff, like trying to fix the roads and things like that, so we are with different parts of the government. In my conversations with the top level of the Macau government, they definitely want to protect the job security of the people that are engaged, the Macau citizens and everybody else, that are engaged in working at these places. There is a strong preference for protecting the employee base of the industry. When issues that affect them, meaning the employees and the local employees in particular, come up, the government is particularly responsive and on point. When we get to more subtle things that have to do, for example, with smoking, then the matter -- the speed of decision slows down. This conversation about smoking with Secretary Tam and even with the Chief Executive Officer and Secretary Leong has been more protracted. There is competing interests here, the health and safety of employees, the strong preference of the customers to have the freedom to smoke. It is very popular in China still. And then, there is this whole thing about trying to make people healthier, even if it kills them to do so. So when you get to areas like this that are certainly relevant to our - right now, the smoking, I'm using this example, the smoking policy is mixed. Some places have been grandfathered in. Other places have tried to take advantage of the interim policy allowing smoking lounges, but yet the final approval of those smoking lounges has been delayed and nobody is sure whether there is going to be a complete ban on smoking, regardless of any condition within the buildings, or whether there will be a mitigated or ameliorated compromise position. So when you talk about the policies of the government since the Premier's visit, you really have to separate the general support that mainland China and Beijing gives the SAR from the intricacies and the more granular aspects of the things that we are interested in that may seem mundane in comparison, but are not. You get my drift on this?
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
It is not a simple answer to your question. God lives in the details on this one.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Well, thanks for the effort to answer.
Steve Wynn:
How did I do? You want to have a follow-up on that? It’s a tough question that you asked me.
Felicia Hendrix:
No, I think it is fair and I think there is still a lot unknown, so I appreciate it.
Steve Wynn:
There are a lot of unknowns. The country has 1.370 billion people, and managing it and its relations with the SAR, I don't think the SAR is the primary thing in China every day. I think Xi Jinping and the central government have a lot of problems to deal with, a lot of decisions. The liaison office is closely monitoring everything that happens in Macau. They were at our opening. They are very supportive, friendly and warm in every respect. But, again, there is this sort of unusual relationship between the announced autonomy of the SAR and the sensitivity of the SAR to the general policies of mainland China. So - and it's very hard for us to understand sometimes what everybody is thinking. It’s not a bad thing in any way, but it makes answering your particular question a little tricky.
Felicia Hendrix:
I got it and I appreciate it.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, ma'am.
Operator:
This does end the question-and-answer portion of this call. I now turn the call back over to the presenters.
Steve Wynn:
Thank you very much, everybody. We will look forward to bringing you up to date in three months. Bye-bye.
Operator:
This does conclude today's conference call. All participants may now disconnect.
Executives:
Stephen Cootey - Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President and Treasurer Stephen Wynn - Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Matt Maddox - President Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A. Gamal Aziz - President, Wynn Macau, Limited Robert DeSalvio - ‎Senior Vice President, Development, Wynn Resorts Development
Analysts:
Joe Greff - JP Morgan Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Jon Oh - CLSA Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital Thomas Allen - Morgan Stanley Robin Farley - UBS David Katz - Telsey Group
Operator:
Good afternoon. My name is Nicole and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the second quarter earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers’ remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Stephen Cootey, Chief Financial Officer.
Stephen Cootey:
Thank you very much and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from both – our Boston, Las Vegas and Macau properties. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I’m going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Wynn:
Hello, everybody. And it’s very nice to have this call. I think you’ve seen our earnings that we were happy with Macau. We held a high, but we made $20 million more than we did last year and it’s another increase in our quarter. And even though we held a high, we were also carrying an equal amount of extra payroll for the Palace, which opens next month. So the increase is real. We’ll be transferring all those employees in the next few weeks – in the next few days actually. And so, we’ll have a different expense pattern for the Peninsula operation of Wynn and Encore in the months ahead as we equalize the payroll. I think we mentioned table allocations in our press release and I’d like to take a moment or two to comment upon those and give some insight to those 160-odd people that are on this call according to the operator. We haven't analyzed, in the past, as we headed towards the opening. We’re unable because of the table cap to predict how many tables we would get, so we established, long time ago, various scenarios where we could operate from 100 tables to 280 tables, and new tables, on how to operate both hotels – all three of them actually – efficiently and profitably. Some of the things that you may find interesting, for example, in a recent month – and this is pretty typical – we had 180 tables allocated at Wynn and Encore to VIP to junkets. And then, we analyzed, as we do now, for the past year, we’ve had a completely different focus in this company about the gambling activity of our clientele. And instead of analyzing the casino on Wynn or turnover, we’ve analyzed both in the United States and in the People's Republic of China and Macau. We’ve analyzed and we’ve run our business on a completely different model. And that model is contribution to EBITDA, to profitability of each unit in the casino regardless of Wynn or turnover or activity of a gambling customer. What instead we look at is how much money do we make with such pieces of equipment, whether it be a table, a baccarat table or a slot machine. And the results of our inquiry, both in the United States and China, have been very, very enlightening and I’ll share them with you. As an example, of 180 junket tables in a month, 60 of them were responsible for all of the EBITDA. The other 120 were either breakeven or, in some cases, losses, taking all costs into account. That is to say that our profitability was limited to a much smaller group than one would have first imagined. And we made a number of very startling changes in the way we laid out our casino, the policies that we employed with regard to the rules of the game – craps, blackjack, and Baccarat, roulette included – that embraced limits. The moments with the client when we would give free promotional allowance, allocations of rooms, food, beverage or airfare, we took a different look at all of that. And since last July 10, a year ago or a little over a year ago, we changed Wynn Las Vegas and Wynn Macau because we were the largest recipient of Asian business in our hotel in Las Vegas. And when that business tailed off, as it has in the industry, we lost $150 million in Wynn at one point – that’s how big our baccarat business was that we could lose $150 million – and we were left with a smaller number. We used to give discounts to blackjack players and crap shooters. We dealt blackjack at three to two if you got 21. We started putting in tables where we paid six to five and dealt single decks or double decks. We changed the layout of the floor. We put our higher yielding games in more prominent locations. We put destination-type games, like craps, in secondary locations. We changed the amount of free odds that we gave at dice games from what was commonly referred to as the 3-4-5 game, and that had to do with the amount of free odds you get if you made a line bet to double odds. To give you an example, when someone has a 3-4-5 crap game, the house advantage is 37 basis points, 38 basis points. When you go to double odds, the house advantage is 58 basis points or 57 basis points. Now that doesn't sound like a lot. That’s a very narrow margin of a house advantage mathematically. However, 20 basis points is a 60% or 70% increase in the margin of a dice game, so that the outcome in terms of profitability was based upon a rather granular analysis of each game. We made a bunch of changes; and in so doing, we were able to overcome in terms of profitability what would ordinarily have been a massive loss of top line revenue. So the gaming industry is a little deceptive in many respects. It takes a very sharp analysis and very high degree of self-awareness – because when you take rooms away from the casino block and you can sell them for cash, our margins in the hotel rooms are very high as they are in slot machines. Casino table games, in Las Vegas, if you were to do an analysis, would have a profit margin in the teens at best. We were able to take our profit margins in table games up into the 40s, which I think is unique in our industry. Well, this kind of analysis applied to China is also very enlightening and instructive. Having allocations, having table caps, as we are experiencing in places like Pennsylvania – this week, I stopped at Bethlehem at the Sands facility. And I was watching what an alert management team did to offset limitations imposed politically on the amount of tables. And they used a concept known as stadium games where you use three or four dealers for roulette and blackjack and have 150 automated digital stations for players that allow people – it’s a much more efficient use of an allocation of tables because you get 150 players with four dealers. And in the case of Bethlehem, when I watched the other day, on Tuesday, they were able to take advantage of that and introduce people at lower minimum table limits to roulette and baccarat who might not have played those games were it not for the low entry-level afforded by this stadium concept. Now, we use those at the Wynn Macau and the – and they’re being used in Singapore and around the country. And I suspect that because of the payroll efficiency inherent in such concepts that we’re going to see more of it and it allows us to make better use of our staffing levels and offer the opportunity for excitement on a playing level to customers in a manner that’s very efficient. Having said all that, we anticipate the following aspects of our business, which will not impact our profitability, that by having fewer games, you get to have a higher utilization. Remember, in most casinos around the world, utilization is less than 50%. You’re sort of keeping the payroll and the games for peak periods, weekends, a few shifts a week. By having fewer tables, you increase utilization dramatically and you’re able to control limits. So let's get to the second part of my presentation, which is this, a close analysis of the market in Macau will demonstrate that the bulk of the profitability in business is in what is now referred to as premium mass business. We distinguish between mass and VIP because, in the mass, very much like America, people buy in for cash, they play with regular chips that are negotiable as opposed to the VIP or junket end where we use non-redeemable chips that are purchased by junket operators who supply to us and then the customer is forced to bet that non-redeemable chip and they keep betting the non-redeemable chips and they save the redeemable ones and then either cash out or buy more non-redeemable chips, in which case they get a little discount. My point is this, the money we make and the margin that we enjoy is based upon the vast premium end. And that premium mass end is not a hard line of division. It isn't a question of, ‘well, one guy bets $25 using US currency for a moment, bets $25, and a premium guy bets $500. No, there is a whole range in between where people bet $2000, $3000 a decision, but they’re playing in the mass area of a casino. We refer to those as a more premium customer. Now, the Wynn Palace in Cotai was designed from day one, six years ago, specifically for premium mass business. Some of our competitors, who are very intelligent operators, they’ve designed buildings that are specifically designed for the lower end of the mass market. The Wynn Palace is not such a structure. The rooms, the restaurants, the retail, all of the amenities, the layout of the place, its entire conceptual framework was based upon getting the higher type of mass player. So we were always in a position to operate our casino with less equipment than our competitors. Incidentally, to give you an example of that, when we opened Wynn Las Vegas, we had close to 2,900 slot machines and we won $180 million a year. Today, even with Encore, we win well over $200 million with less than 1,800 machines. Technology has played a role in this and it is playing a role in table games as well. So to close this little presentation of mine, we feel positive and comfortable about the hotel and we’re looking forward to the opening on 22 August. And I’m hoping that some of the things that I’ve just highlighted in my comments are instructive to all of you. One other note away from China and the United States – and Las Vegas, for a moment, is, on Tuesday at 5 o’clock, we expect to get our final environmental permit in Boston and begin full-scale construction on Wednesday. Although we’ve had hundreds of people at work already on areas that were not impacted by the environmental permit, work that was necessary to build our building on things like a slurry wall and other preparatory construction aspects of the foundation, but hard construction begins on the tower itself Wednesday morning and we don't anticipate any other interference with that process. I think that about covers it. Matt, Steve – Bob DeSalvio is on the call from Massachusetts and is happy to elaborate on any of the comments that I’ve made or any of the questions you may have which you can begin asking right now. Thanks for your attention.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Joe Greff from JP Morgan.
Joe Greff:
Hello, everybody. Steve, thanks for your comments, your perspective putting on the top of the table game allocation. Along the same lines, along the same topic, does – the fewer initial amount of table games than, say, 150 to 250 that maybe some people were thinking, does that alter the amount of labor-related OpEx shift from Peninsula to Cotai?
Stephen Wynn:
Ultimately, depending on utilization, it will as it always does. You adjust your workforce based upon the demand that you have from your customers. But that’s something that you see as time goes by, Joe.
Joe Greff:
Got it. And then, just to make sure we all understand this, is there a chance that you could open with more than 100 and – I ask it knowing that Galaxy, I guess, went through a process, maybe got a little bit more to open and then got 50 more and then 50 more after that. Do you have a timetable for when more tables would be released? I guess, with a second go around of additional table games being allocated, would that be more of a 2017 event or could that be a late 2016 event?
Stephen Wynn:
Joe, we haven't been formally notified in the manner that the government does such things yet, and I suppose it is possible. What we do in the absence of official notification is we make plans to run at a minimum efficiently; and then, if demand calls for it and the government decides that it’s a good idea, then we respond when they give us the tables. But they don't tell us, in advance, about such things. And so, the best thing for us to do is not to plan for it.
Joe Greff:
Got it. And then a final question for Steve Cootey. Can you allocate the EBITDA impact, the positive favorable EBITDA impact, in Macau from the high hold?
Stephen Cootey:
About $20 million.
Stephen Wynn:
It was about the same as the extra payroll we’re carrying, Joe.
Joe Greff:
Yep, yep. [indiscernible] just wanted to clarify that. Great. Thanks all.
Operator:
And our next question is from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi. Good afternoon. Maybe just to follow-up on that payroll comment, so the $20 million of extra headcount that was being carried, that’s still – those are all employees that are currently at Wynn Macau, will be shifted over to the Palace. And then, in addition, was there additional staffing that’s going – that’s feeding the pre-opening line, which is why we saw that expand?
Stephen Wynn:
Let me clarify that. We were carrying $20 million to $25 million a quarter of extra payroll in the Peninsula operation for Macau. All of those people are being transferred, as we speak, and they are employed at the current table limit level. The extra tables, were we to get them, would have been reflected in new hires which have not taken place. So the people that we said we’re transferring, we are transferring and they are employed. Does that answer your question? I want to make sure I’m responding properly.
Stephen Cootey:
And I think from an accounting standpoint, what you’re talking about, Shaun, is, to be clear, Wynn Palace will have 7,000 employees; roughly, 2,000 will come from Wynn Macau. So when you see pre-opening ramping up, that’s the other 5,000 people that are coming on-board right now and came on-board in the second quarter. That’s that $40 million in pre-opening out of the $45 million. It was related to Wynn Palace hires outside of the transfers.
Shaun Kelley:
Perfect. No, I understand. That makes perfect sense. And my second question would just be on, we look a little closer at the VIP line, it looks like perhaps the rebate percentage was a little higher than normal. Usually, that may have to do with what’s going on in the direct VIP business, but any color you could provide on that?
Stephen Cootey:
There was no change in commission structures in the second quarter.
Stephen Wynn:
Yeah, you got me on that one. I’m not sure what line you’re looking at. Linda is on the call or Ian is. Ian, do you have a comment on that?
Ian Coughlan:
We haven't altered our commission structure. It remains the same. We’re very parsimonious. I’m not sure what’s being referred to.
Shaun Kelley:
No, just sorry. Maybe to be more clear, just asking about, was there any kind of hold outside of the norm on the direct VIP business?
Stephen Wynn:
Was there any hold? You mean, did we play lucky?
Shaun Kelley:
Yes.
Stephen Wynn:
We did.
Stephen Cootey:
We did.
Stephen Wynn:
We did. I did to the extent – I think we played lucky almost exactly to the extent of the extra payroll we were carrying. So what I’m saying is the $20 million increase is real.
Stephen Cootey:
We played lucky in both direct and junket, both sides. They make up that combined number of 3.98% or percentage [ph].
Shaun Kelley:
Okay. Got it. Thank you very much.
Operator:
And our next question is from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thanks, guys. Matt, for starters, you just mentioned playing lucky in both direct and VIP and junket. Could you maybe clarify a little bit what the mix in terms of drop or something is of the two segments at this point?
Matt Maddox:
Carlo, we normally don't do that, getting into the mix of direct versus VIP. We always – I can tell you, both held high in the 3.98% on the $11 billion in turnover.
Stephen Wynn:
Generally, what is relevant to this conversation is that we have three or four very priced junket operators, who consistently produce for us and produce profitable business for us compared to any other equipment in the building. And they’re going to be both – they’re all established with proper tables in both Cotai and in the Peninsula, in August, at the opening regardless of anything that we’ve discussed so far. But we also run our own program, very much like we do in Las Vegas, where we give credit to people in Hong Kong where we’re permitted to do so. And those numbers jump up and down depending on who shows up. To give you an example, in the last week in Las Vegas, in five days, we won $22 million in our own program in baccarat from a handful of customers. So we get this – we benefit from having an extremely loyal, high-end group of customers that come to us in a number of ways, some through junkets in China and some in our own programs here. And they vary – the volatility or the attendance of such clientele varies unpredictably from month to month and week to week. So the reason we don't discuss it is because it would be irrelevant. It’s not instructive and it’s unpredictable.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay.
Stephen Wynn:
Which is why we don't give guidance on it because we really don't know what to say other than what I've just told you.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. That's helpful. And then, if I could just understand a little bit more how you’re thinking about the positioning. You’ll, obviously, open Wynn Palace with 350. If I’m not mistaken, your allocation or your table allotment coming, it was like 509 or somewhere around there, plus the 100 is 609.
Stephen Wynn:
It’s 520 plus 100. It’s 620.
Carlo Santarelli:
620. Okay, sorry about that. So you’ll have 270 at the existing, plus your 350, how are you thinking about the splits between mass and VIP at each of the properties now? Will you try and lean more heavily…?
Stephen Wynn:
60 or so in both hotels in the junkets and VIP. And the rest are in mass. So the mass floor is unaffected.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Perfect. Thank you very much.
Stephen Wynn:
The adjustment takes place in the VIP section.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood. Thank you.
Operator:
And our next question is from Jon Oh from CLSA.
Jon Oh:
Thank you. My question pertains to the 250 tables that you are shifting from Wynn Macau. I think this number is a little higher than what we are modeling generally speaking. So as I am thinking about the cost shift and the expense shift that will be moving from Wynn Macau to Wynn Palace, that’s a positive thing. How should we also be thinking about the potential that you’re actually peeling off more of Wynn Macau's tables and what it would do to your revenue of your existing Wynn Macau? Basically, I'm trying to understand, this risk of self-cannibalization, which I think, Steve, you brought to point that maybe only 60 tables out of the 183 in VIP are contributing to the profits, so you have some slack to pick up there. But what about some of the mass market tables and premium mass market tables in existing Wynn Macau today that you may have to shift to get Wynn Palace to the right size? How do you feel about this risk of self-cannibalization in the coming weeks as you open Wynn Palace?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, that’s the good news. The shift is irrelevant because the tables that are left at Wynn Las Vegas are the ones that – and in Encore are the ones that were making the money. We’re not touching the mass floor. That’s the point. We had an enormous amount of tables that were idle with payroll in anticipation of the shift to the other place. So, in one way, it’s fortuitous that we’re not affecting our premium mass capacity or potential in terms of tables at Wynn Macau and Encore Macau. The adjustment was made in the junkets and sending out the junket operators and the tables they allocated to them. Our mass floor doesn't change. Our premium mass floor doesn't change in either place.
Stephen Cootey:
What you see, Jon, is if you look at the numbers, we have some poker games that are more of an amenity that would likely go. That’s about 14. And then, of the 20 or so mass games that would need to be transferred to get to those numbers, those are underperforming games in certain areas that we rarely open. So… This may be a fascinating – those of you who watch this industry so closely, and our competitors as well, may find this to be a fascinating observation. When we concentrate this business on the tables that we have predetermined to be the ones that are most profitable and increase their utilization, some of this speculation has to remain as speculation, but I think you’re going to see the results quick enough in August, the last week in August and in September leading up to Golden Week. And I think that we might find this very instructive before it’s over. And we don't do much spinning here. We let the numbers speak for themselves. But I want to point out that the trend in our industry has constantly been to less equipment and more efficient utilization of that equipment. I also want to remind everybody that you cannot get dynamic in a casino. You can only get dynamic in the non-casino area where you create attractions that produce people of a certain income level that make the place profitable. I can't overstate that simple observation more strongly enough. In a hotel casino, in these integrated resorts, the hotel itself is the show. A lot of conversation has been promulgated about the diversification of gaming away from just gambling to non-gambling things, and that conversation has widely and largely been misunderstood. So let me make a point about that now. When you say diversify to non-casino things, you have to understand that isn't a simplistic thing – ‘well, we’ll have more restaurants; we’ll have more shows; we’ll have more this or that other than a slot machine or a baccarat table.’ Diversification means how well do you make the entire place an attraction from a hospitality and touristic point of view, so that you don't just rely on a baccarat player or a slot machine player. Now, that diversification involves the entire building. We spent, without exception and without any possibility of contradiction, more money on non-casino attractions in Wynn Palace than has ever been spent on any facility of that sort on the planet Earth. And it has been done in the things that really matter to people – the width of the hallways, the height of ceilings, the attractiveness, the decor, the size of the rooms, the elegance and luxury of the retail offerings and, most importantly, the entertainment quotient of each and every food and beverage outlet. The customers of Macau, in the past – since 2002 and even before with Stanley Ho's operation, the customers have a very distinctive personality. They shop, they eat and they gamble. Their attendance to traditional entertainment attractions has been unpredictable and, in most cases, unsatisfactory. We saw a Cirque du Soleil show – remarkable company that we pioneered ourselves in Las Vegas – we saw that show open and close at the Venetian. The entertainment attraction at the City of Dreams is primarily being supported by freebies, when people that go in and are offered the experience complementary. What we have seen at Wynn Macau and Wynn Las Vegas, the only five-star facility in Macau and the most complete in terms of five stars in spa, five stars in food, five stars in rooms – that’s very unique in the gaming industry – that is diversification. When Wynn Palace begins, at 8 o’clock in the evening, on the night of August 22, everybody will experience visually for the first time – the press will see it the week before with me – the most diverse, the most elegant, the most completely diversified attraction in the hospitality industry that exists anywhere in the world. I say that unequivocally because it took us six years to be able to make that statement. And all of you who have enough interest in the matter and the press will get to see it for themselves. You’ll eat the food with the incredible array of chefs from pastry to – we have Alain Ducasse chefs in our coffee shop in this hotel. It’s on the water, experiencing $70 million or $80 million worth of entertainment on the fountains. That filters through to the entertainment quality in each of the restaurants, even in the gaming areas. So in the lobbies, tens of millions of dollars have been spent on floors that open. The theme of the hotel is flowers. We’re talking about Ferris wheels, carousels, 25-foot-tall Fabergé eggs that open, all made of flowers. Everywhere in the hotel, there is entertainment, public entertainment. And in every aspect of the hotel, the hospitality diversification has been intensified and redoubled. And those are the things – if you want to take a hotel to another level, not a casino, a hotel, then you have to revisit each and every component down to the most minute detail and revisit them, ask all of the questions, question your history, question fundamental assumptions, the ones that survive have survived cross-examination and re-cross and the new stuff emerges as you apply a great deal of self-critical judgment in the design/development phase. All of this will be self-explanatory and self-evident at 8 o’clock on 22 August to the rest of the world when this hotel takes its first breath publicly. The press will get to see it and the financial community in the days preceding August 22. Incidentally, we adopted a technique. I was asked, ‘how do you want to handle the opening, Steve?’ I said, ‘I’ll tell you how I want to handle the opening. I want to show the world. I want to show the political leaders who don't attend these hotels. I want them to see the villas, the penthouses, the entertainment attractions alone, in small groups of tours in each of these remarkable moments in this building before it opens.’ And then, during the month, that’s what I’m going to do on 22nd to our invited guests. But in the weeks preceding August 22, all 12,000 or 13,000 of our employees will be in small groups of eight to ten and experience the identical tour and visualization of this hotel in tours with music and with full-tilt presentations, so that by the time we get to August 22, there will be an awareness in the community of what we have built. That is the policy we are following. And it begins in two days and that is the indoctrination and the display. When you talk about the villas and the penthouses and the other attractions in this hotel, normal people will never get to see them. They’ll be reserved for special guests that are being entertained, that are being fed in these restaurants. The politicians and political leaders, union leaders, line employees will never see every part of this place because they’re specialized in certain parts of it. But our job from August 1 to August 22 will be to make sure that anybody who works for the Wynn Macau company, in either the Peninsula operations or the one in Cotai, are completely exposed to what we have built for them as a place to work because, at the end of the day, this is all about our employees because if our employees have a sense of the place and its luxury and its special nature, then they will pass that on to the public. Those are our strategies. Those are our philosophies. That’s our thinking. And we’re going to bring it all to bear along with 40-odd years of experience to see if we can get this place off and running in a nice way. It was built to take market share, no question about it. No need to pussyfoot about it. And we’ll see if we can keep the promise. Personally, I saw it three weeks ago. I thought it was the most joyful place we’ve ever built. My wife, Andrea, and I walked through the building and we were quite dazzled by it. I’m hoping that all of you will be [indiscernible].
Jon Oh:
Okay, thank you for the color. If I may follow-up with another question, I think you made a statement earlier about premium mass and it seems like that’s going to be the front and center of the Wynn Palace strategy. Could you size up the state of the premium mass market today, specifically if you could maybe give us some sense as to some visitation trends you’re seeing and also customer spend? Are you seeing any encouraging signs right now? And how do you feel about the state of this market. We know your position very well given the product that you’re building, but any color on premium mass as a segment will be very helpful to us. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Ian Coughlan, my Irish boss, do =you want to talk?
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. What we’ve seen in premium mass at Wynn Macau, specifically, is very sticky customers. And we’ve been allowed, over the last 18 months, to grow the mid-tier premium mass. We’ve cultivated a lot of new players. It’s been very strong for us. We’ve allocated more tables to premium mass and it suits the property. So they’re our type of customers. It’s been running very well. And we’re very confident about premium mass at Wynn Palace. We have the product to support it and we’ve built the place for our premium mass and Wynn Macau is no different. So we are seeing, finally, a return of some of the higher-end premium mass players. We’ve seen that particularly over the last eight weeks. So it’s strong, it’s steady, it’s stable, and we’re looking forward to Wynn Palace and Cotai being a different market with lots of premium mass there to harvest.
Stephen Wynn:
And, Jon, on all three months – April, May, and June – we were up in the mass segment year-over-year.
Jon Oh:
Thank you. That’s very helpful.
Stephen Wynn:
Who’s next?
Operator:
Our next question is from Felicia Hendrix from Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi. Good afternoon. I just want to switch gears for a second, if I may, because my question is on capital allocation. So, Steve, so you’re opening up Wynn Palace in about a month, a little less than a month, right? And then, we move to Boston and – by the way, congratulations on getting closer to commencing construction there. So in a few years, Boston will be open. And then, following those two projects, you should be back to generating strong free cash flow. The next project in line is, obviously, Paradise Park if that gets approved. So I'm just wondering, how do we think about your free cash flow as you’re building out that project in Vegas? Is there a scenario where you’re returning cash to shareholders, while you’re also embarking on construction in Vegas once Boston is open?
Stephen Cootey:
Felicia, I think we always return cash to shareholders and we’ll continue as long as our business remains robust to pay dividends. That’s been our policy from the beginning of this company. And once – as you look at our balance sheet, it becomes quite strong, we expect, over the next 12 months and our capital allocation will be exactly what it’s been.
Stephen Wynn:
We’re in construction, Felicia, and we have been for several weeks on our Wynn Plaza shopping center on the Strip, on the sidewalk on the Strip between Wynn and Encore. So we’re very happy with that and the leasing is proceeding and that project is underway and will finish next year.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. I'm sorry.
Stephen Wynn:
I'm sorry. That’s all. I just wanted to throw that in. We did start that job and it’s going well. Okay, great. And then, Steve, so when we think about Macau, right, and a lot of the questions, I think, that were being asked today are kind of coming from the base of people trying to figure out what’s going to happen in the very near term, right? Like, is the new supply going to grow or cannibalize the market? And that’s an interesting debate. But when we look out further, a year, two years out, and given the stabilization the market is seeing now, especially given the market – the stabilization that the market is seeing now, do you feel more comfortable about your growth projections for the market as you look out a few years? And just as a follow-up to that, how much of your vision in Macau relies on proper infrastructure being in place, like the bridge and the light rail, that sort of thing?
Stephen Wynn:
Well, we’re seeing numbers today that have no bridge, no monorail, none of those remarkable infrastructure additions that the government has instigated. They’ve not yet matured and come into season. So what we’re seeing is the picture that you’re sharing with us at the moment based upon the numbers from ourselves and the other gents and the other companies in Macau. The things that are in the pipeline, the bridges, it’s mightily being constructed. Monorail, with its growing pains, seems to be settling in and work is proceeding on that. Those things all add to the viability of all of the operators in the special administrative region. And they can do nothing but help as far as I understand them. All they can do is make it easier for more people to get to Macau. The penetration of Macau in terms of the general population is still small. The room for growth is astronomical when you consider coming to play and how many folks there are. The visitation in Macau is being augmented and enhanced not only by these infrastructure projects that are breathtaking, that bridge and the monorail, the light rail, but by the very facilities that the concessionaires have invested in and that have opened. Galaxy and Venetian and the City of Dreams and the Studio City are very aggressive, massive projects. And then Parisian comes on shortly and then, eventually, we’ll have the SJM property, which I think they’ve, in a stroke of real originality, called The Palace. That comes on at some time next year, I guess. When is that due, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
I'm not sure. I think it’s further out.
Stephen Wynn:
Further out. But the Parisian is around the corner.
Matt Maddox:
It’s a couple of weeks after us.
Stephen Wynn:
Yeah. So those things match and enhance the future of the market, coupled with those infrastructure things that you mentioned. Now, I don't know the final date of the bridge. Have they announced one lately when they expect to function, to have functionality on the bridge? I know the light rail – when?
Ian Coughlan:
2020 or 2021. It keeps moving.
Stephen Wynn:
Yeah, in three or four years. And what about the light rail, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
2018, first phase; 2019, the second phase.
Stephen Wynn:
The first phase goes around two sides of our property and has its first stop right in the middle of the lake by our gondola station. That’s the first stop from the ferry terminal. And it goes around the north and the west side of our property and stops right smack in the middle next to our gondola station. No exit there, of course. We did it deliberately. And then that gondola station feeds the MGM which is coming along in a few months. It feeds Parisian. It feeds the City of Dreams and Wynn, the Palace. So I like the interaction of the infrastructure as it comes on-board and it sort of matches and enhances the performance of the buildings and the projects that have been built. That’s how I look at it, anyway. It’s just sort of a – but I tend to be a longer-range looker at these things than quarter-to-quarter, but that’s my job here. So I’m feeling good about it. I love our position in Macau. That concession was one of the most remarkable benefits ever bestowed on companies. Those of us who are privileged to have such privileges in the SAR are very lucky. The amount of money we’ve been able to make and the opportunity to create these places has been fabulous.
Felicia Hendrix:
Well, thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Yeah. Is there another question? Apparently not.
Stephen Cootey:
I think there is.
Stephen Wynn:
Is there another question?
Stephen Cootey:
Yeah.
Operator:
Our next question is from Thomas Allen from Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Hey, how are you? So you announced about a month ago the opening date of Wynn Palace and you started booking rooms, can you give us any color around bookings? You also have been hiring hosts. Any color you’re hearing from hosts on potentially pent-up demand of people who haven't been coming to the market and maybe will start coming again once the Wynn Palace opens? Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
I think we’re at 70% occupancy already and we’ve only had the booking machine turned on for a matter of days.
Ian Coughlan:
June 21, Steve, we’ve started online sales and taken reservations. And we’ve had a strong demand basically and our rate is at a premium on both the gaming and the non-gaming. So we're looking very, very strong for the first five weeks prior to Golden Week and then we go up from there into the 80s.
Thomas Allen:
That's helpful color. Thank you. And then, just talk about the Macau Peninsula property. Your slot volumes are really weak this quarter. I think it’s the weakest number I have seen or we’ve seen since 2009, anything driving that?
Ian Coughlan:
Just the movement of big players. They can affect the month and they can affect the quarter. So the previous quarter was excellent, so they’ll be coming back.
Stephen Wynn:
The slot machines are very much like the tables. There are very big slot players in China. And in our particular case, when they show up, it gets very exciting. When they don't, it’s a little bit more subdued.
Thomas Allen:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question is from Robin Farley from UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great, thanks. I have two questions. One is, how should we think about, for the Palace, what percent of rooms will be sold cash sales versus given to players, just how to think about that. And then, also, I wonder how you think about how the US election outcome may impact business in Vegas?
Stephen Wynn:
What a good question that is, Robin. I’ll take the second question. Yeah, go ahead, Ian.
Gamal Aziz:
Steve, this is Gamal. We initially planned for the initial period to be at 30% non-gaming or cash business and 70% gaming and then we will eventually get into a 75% gaming, 25% cash business.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great.
Stephen Wynn:
The election in the United States, I think we’re all in the same position. It’s almost impossible to predict exactly what effect that will have. Without getting into an economics discussion, we have – sooner or later, our political establishment is going to be forced, regardless of party affiliation, to deal with $19 trillion in debt that’s climbing by around $1.6 billion a day. That means that, in the Treasury auction each month in downtown Washington, we’re printing money at the rate of $40 billion or $50 billion a month, which is, of course, increasing the money supply and directly impacting the living standard or the buying power of the US dollar or people who are being paid like everybody on this call today. Now, part of the frustration in America is the fact that the deficit is having an enormous impact on the living style and the living standard of Americans, but not all of this is well understood by the folks, to use Bill O'Reilly's term. The folks are being – their living standard being clipped by the deficit and by the printing of money and the increase in the money supply. How long can this go on? In the history of the Western world, inflating your way out of this kind of a problem, taken to its extreme, to use the Weimar Republic as an example, people went grocery shopping with wheelbarrows full of currency. Now, before the recession, the euro was $0.87, $0.85 on the dollar. During Quantitative Easing 1, 2 and 3, it went up to $1.48. That was a devaluation of the American currency by 20%. Now, it’s $1.10. And to use that as a benchmark for a moment, it isn't that the dollar got stronger, it’s that the euro got weaker because they started quantitative easing and printing money in the euro community. So this deficit issue impacts the mental health, the frustration, the positive sense of tomorrow that working people feel in America. It hasn’t got to do with rich folks. It’s got to do with government, fiscal and monetary policy. We have $14 trillion in public debt and $5 trillion in intergovernmental debt. The coupon on that $19-trillion-and-climbing is around 2.3%, and that’s with short-term interest rates at zero virtually. Now, the current Fed, the lady is going to keep interest rates where they are. That, of course, protects all of the credit card debt of $1 trillion that’s out there. And so, we don't have mass panic on the credit card interest. But I know that the government is in a quandary as to what to do about this. Now, the issue about what’s going to happen with the election isn't so much an issue of Trump versus Clinton at the moment. It’s a question of whether the House and the Senate and the Executive branch can get together and make Americans feel safer and have a fiscal and monetary policy that isn't self-destructive, which currently it is. Now, I know that, in this time of year, everybody is making all kinds of promises and declarations that they can do things or they will do things that, of course, they cannot without exacerbating the problems that are currently plaguing the country. What is lamentable is that the public discourse today on both sides misses the point entirely. We’re in the chicken for every pot season where everybody is promising the moon. I recall that one of the most popular themes this year is that we’ve got to get student loans and the burden of student loans off the back of the kids. Well, when the Affordable Care Act was passed and it was going to have a negative impact on the deficit, which its sponsors had promised it wouldn't, the sponsors went looking for a way to offset $8 billion or so in additional deficit and they came up with the kind of a stunt that we did with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when we eliminated mortgage brokers and we just took the loans directly into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and that led to the collapse of $5 trillion off the system. Well, they did the same thing with the Department of Education. They gave the student loans directly from the Department of Education and eliminated any middle people. And then they charged 6.5 points or 650 basis points for student loans instead of passing the savings because the Department of Education doesn't really have a cost of money. But they’re making the student loans direct since the Affordable Care Act. Bernie Sanders didn't talk about that. But that 650 basis points, that carry is being made by the government to offset what would have been an even greater impact on the deficit by the Affordable Care Act. Well, if you really were sincere about making a better life for the kids, you would have passed the loans from the Department of Education to the kids at cost, which would have been interest free. But this kind of hypocrisy, which sort of is endemic to the whole system regardless of party, has got to come to a halt. Because if it doesn't, then it insinuates itself into economic demand for services and products. It certainly insinuates itself into the price of everything from Walmart to shoes and sneakers. Those things haven't been by themselves become more precious. The value of the dollar has declined. I know that we talk about China fooling with their currency. The United States has fooled with its currency even more aggressively than the People's Republic of China. I’m not an apologist for China or anybody. I am simply stating the fact. But you won't see this in the conventions of either party. You won't hear this sort of thing because it’s so uncomfortable to talk about it. But the election could put America on a better track if all the Senators and Congressmen and the Presidents and the cabinet members decide that they should or it won't. I don't know about anybody on this call, but I’m not in a position to make that prediction. But it surely, surely impacts the life of every American. Tax policy and all the rest all roll into this and businessmen across the country and people that work in businesses will be affected by this as sure as sunrise tomorrow. And there seems to be a fear to deal with it directly. So count me as one of those old white guys that’s frustrated.
Robin Farley:
Okay, thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Robin…
Operator:
And our next question is from David Katz…
Stephen Wynn:
I want to say something to Robin. Robin, there's 465 agencies in government and there's 4.15 million federal employees. 1.5 million are in uniform. 2.65 million of them are civilians covered by the SCI Union and the Civil Service Act. If you want to make government more efficient, you’ve got to have a big idea that resonates with all of the government employees, all 2.65 million of them and 460 agencies and it is going to have to be the kind of big idea that we used to run businesses, which is namely to reinforce positively the behavior that we wish to encourage. And that can be done with tax policy and with employment techniques in the federal government that works so well in the private sector. If we told everybody in those 465 agencies, you ran the business for X amount of dollars last year. If you maintain service levels and you can save a dollar, we will distribute $0.20 on every dollar you save to those of you in those departments, you’d see the government contract in terms of its cost of operation overnight. But you’d have to incentivize the people in those 2.65 million employees the way we incentivize people in the private sector and gain efficiency and better functionality. But those big ideas don't seem to apply in Washington. Enough of the speech. Go ahead with the questions.
Operator:
Our next question is from David Katz from Telsey Group.
David Katz:
Hi, afternoon. Two quick ones. Now that Boston is becoming more of a tangible property and that this may involve getting Bob into the act, I’m curious how you can update us on how you plan to position it. As we look around the geographic region, there are other large properties, other small ones, but I think they tend to be more slot driven, if you can talk about who your target market is. And then, I'm curious what your kind of long-term commentary might be around the table game business in Las Vegas, which candidly has been a little bit hard to model. Whatever thoughts you have would be welcome. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Bob and I will do that together and I’ll lead. That building in Massachusetts is the Wynn in every sense of the word – the rooms, the suites, the service, the food, the beverage, the public entertainment, the theatrical entertainment is everything that we do here. We’re bringing a five-star, frontline, integrated resort right into the center of Massachusetts. We're the largest private investment in the history of that commonwealth and we are the second biggest employer except for the hospitals in the commonwealth. And it’s going to be a doozy. And it’ll deal to the same level of the market that we are dealing here. Bob DeSalvio, we’re very lucky to get him come join us. I was with him this week on the East Coast in Pennsylvania. And, Bob, you can pick it up from there.
Robert DeSalvio:
Sure. We think of this market in a couple of different ways; first of all, an incredible local market. We’ve got the only casino with 5 million people in the Greater Boston area. And then, when we branch out from there, we’ve got about 25 million people of gaming age within a 400-mile radius of the property, so probably the most incredible local market available with one casino. Massport has been excellent in terms of the international destinations coming in and out of Logan. And we’re now up to 54 non-stop international destinations coming into Logan, so the opportunities for picking up areas that are very good for Wynn with direct service to Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and, of course, all the major capitals around the world provides us with a great opportunity for the international market. And so, we look at this on many different levels – local, regional, national, international – and feel we can qualify for all of them, so we’re very, very bullish on it.
Stephen Wynn:
What about room rates in that City of Boston, Bob?
Robert DeSalvio:
Right now, extremely high and continuing to climb. There’s a real shortage of rooms. Of course, with healthcare, life sciences, biotech, the universities, there’s so much activity and so much building going on in the area and not enough quality hotel rooms. So the rates continue to climb and we’ll be at the top of the market. There’ll be nobody in the market that will have rooms even close to this. So we are actually predicting that we will do very high ADR in this particular property.
Stephen Wynn:
And we are the largest hotel in the metropolitan area in terms of total rooms – the biggest rooms in the East Coast, the largest room outside of Las Vegas in the United States of America in terms of footage and decor and the most amount of rooms in Central Massachusetts. 12 minutes from Logan airport. The first hotel we’ve ever had that had non-stop service from China. No Gulfstreams needed. I’m sorry [indiscernible].
David Katz:
I think the other part of my question was about the table game business in Las Vegas, which has been a little bit hard. If you have any sort of longer-term thoughts on it, it would be very helpful. Thank you.
Stephen Wynn:
Well, we do. And it’s what I led the conference call with. Gaming hasn't changed the price of gambling in 70 years, and yet our cost of operating these places has climbed steadily over that period. And the mentality of the marketing people and the gaming people to deal directly with that sector of the business has been trained, has been grown and matured with a focus on the top line – the average bet, the length of play, how often does the customer come, what is our chance of winning X dollars – and then let's get that customer, give him a room, pay for his airfare, send a limousine, give him a bottle of Lafite Rothschild, do anything, give him a shopping spree. These are the earmarks of the superficial thought that has guided casino management for decades when it should have been focused on what is the profitability of every table and every customer. Now, I’m not suggesting that they don't have profitability meetings and reviews at these various enterprises, but I’m in a position to say that any examination by any financial person in or out of the industry will reveal that the profit margins of table games in the gaming industry in the United States of America stinks, lousy, less than 20%. Now, these businesses end up with margins close to 30% because they have slot machines and rooms and bars and nightclubs. But the forgotten sector has been profitability of table games. We decided to take another look at that a year ago. I remember exactly, it was at the end of the second quarter and I went after it the first week of July and started moving furniture and changing rules in collaboration with my colleagues, like Maurice Wooden, who happens to be on vacation in Hawaii this week, Matt Maddox, Linda Chen, Ian Coughlan, Gamal Aziz, Steve Cootey – my Chief Financial Officer – and everybody in China. And we decided that there had to be a better way to do this. You say it’s tough to model table games. You, I don't know how you do your model. But if you do a deep dive in companies like the ones that line the Strip in Las Vegas, the regional casinos, and take a look at the profitability of table games, that model is shaky. We've changed that here. We don't care about the drop. We don't care about that. We care about the profitability of every foot in the casino. We take a very merchandising retail approach to the floor. Incidentally, I think Sheldon has done that in China when he opened up years ago. It’s harder to do it when you’re not living in an avalanche of revenue the way we did when casinos first started in Macau. In a day-to-day disciplined grind of normal operation, it requires re-educating all of the marketing and casino personnel to look at the customers differently. We don't even issue promotional allowances or comps based upon past performance. We do it on current business activity. That is to say, if you play this trip at a certain level, we will give you free meals or free rooms. But if you played that way last year and you show up this week, we are waiting to see what happens this week. That’s a big change in the way they though in this business and it requires a lot of discipline and, frankly, re-education of the people that work in the casinos. It took us months to get to where we wanted to be in Las Vegas. But, imagine, we were able to overcome a loss of $50 million or $80 million in baccarat drop to make the same money or more in Las Vegas. That’s hard to do. But, now, when someone plays, it’s a business. It’s a business. Otherwise, we sell the rooms to cash customers and we reallocate the space in our building. The business model is constantly morphing and changing. And is it not doing so in every business in the world? And the prize goes to who’s agile. We’re trying, we’re trying. We are, so to speak, in a commercial sense, constantly in a yoga class. So factor that into your modeling, maybe you'll be able to follow us soon.
David Katz:
Appreciate it. Thank you.
Operator:
And there are no further audio questions at this time.
Stephen Wynn:
Thank you, everybody, for paying attention today and giving us your time. Looking forward to sharing the results of all these exciting new projects as we go forward. Bye-bye.
Executives:
Steve Cootey – Chief Financial Officer Steve Wynn – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Matt Maddox – President Ian Coughlan – President, Wynn Resorts, Macau S.A. Maurice Wooden – President, Wynn Las Vegas
Analysts:
Felicia Hendrix – Barclays Shaun Kelley – Bank of America Carlo Santarelli – Deutsche Bank Joseph Greff – JPMorgan Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley Robin Farley – UBS Harry Curtis – Nomura David Katz – Telsey Advisory Group
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Las Vegas First Quarter 2016 Earnings Call. I would like to turn the call over to Steve Cootey, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the Company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from both our Las Vegas and Macau properties. Before we get started I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor federal securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
Well, we did have some information released prior to this about the quarter. And we are going to discuss the various subjects that I am sure will be of interest to the people on the call. The only other thing I could say is that since our early release to bring everybody up to date, it was very interesting that both Macau and Las Vegas had better Aprils than they did a year ago. And that was in terms of profitability and that was very nice. So without any other comment I think we will let this go to questions.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions]. Your first question comes from the line of Joseph Greff from JPMorgan. Sir, your line is open.
Steve Cootey:
Joe, are you there?
Steve Wynn:
I think we don’t have him. Are you there for question?
Operator:
Mr. Greff, your line is open.
Steve Wynn:
Joe Greff, are you there? Maybe you should take someone else, operator. Operator, would you take someone else?
Operator:
Yes, sir. Your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
Good morning and thank you for my question. So, Steve, in your Investor Day, I just wanted to go back to some of the metrics that you used when you were talking through the scenarios at Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau. You used a market GGR of $29.6 billion, which if you look at where consensus estimates are now for the market – and I know it is impossible to forecast, but that is what we have to work with – that implies about a 6% growth rate for next year. So, I'm just wondering as you think about that number, is that being driven by visitation, by spending increases? Just trying to get an idea about how you and your management team are thinking about the market revenue growth drivers for next year.
Steve Wynn:
Well, Steve Cootey and Matt Maddox were the ones that discussed that and they are on the call and I think they can follow-up with your answer.
Matt Maddox:
What we did, because it was a public meeting, is we actually used the consensus estimates using Hong Kong analysts and the U.S. analysts for the market for next year. So with any properties coming on board and the stabilization seen in Macau we thought that consensus was a good metric.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay, so you are just kind of using that as a benchmark and then your views of what market share and EBITDA margins would be?
Matt Maddox:
That is correct.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. So then just moving on to my next question – and Steve, this is on your Paradise Park project. And so now that we have time to digest the initial announcement, I was just wondering could you delve deeper into some of the elements you discussed? I know the Board still has to approve it, but I believe you said at the Investor Day it could amount to about a $1.5 billion project. So I was just wondering is that the right cost to think about? And then also, as you think about the different aspects of the project cost, can you walk us through that and how you are thinking about driving an appropriate return from that spend?
Steve Wynn:
Yes, I can. And if you recall, what I said was that until all of the costs are complete and compared to the revenue, and we know that the business plan is as good as we think it is, I am not going to take it to the Board. So my management team, and all lot of it is myself and the group that have created these hotels in the last 40 years, we have been obsessed on a daily basis and on weekends with a whole team of creative people that include former Disney animators that – I sit when I do these kind of things with animators very much the way Walt Disney did. And as we work on ideas one of the men sketches in real time, the perspective drawings, the elevations. The lake is – when I had the Investor Day we showed the West End of the lake which was 1,300 feet by 1,300 feet. We realized that our development sites that were further to the east on the corner of Desert Inn and Paradise and on Paradise itself and on the south side which is Paradise and the side that backs up to Sands Road, we had these rather large development sites of 20, 19 and 17 acres. And we wanted to extend the lake to create more beachfront property. So we extended the like another 600 feet and that happened after the Investor Day. Now picture this in your mind when you understand how we do this. Here is this body of water that has a boardwalk surrounding it that is over a mile long, it is 5,800 feet, and there are all of these properties and offerings of shopping, retail, there is even little cul-de-sacs of little villages like a little village square off them. It is a discovery place for people walking and staying in the hotel. Now we show a 1,000 room addition that is connected to Wynn that is totally integrated with the country club restaurant as it is presently known and the rest of our hotel. But then we show the rest of this property with its convention and meeting space around it and the development sites that are beachfront. What we realize is that in order for this to have the critical mass that is irresistible to the public, it has to be a place that is irresistible to the public. And so therefore, what I didn't show on Investor Day but – because I didn't have the model ready, is that in the middle of this 1,300 by 2,000 foot piece of water is a mountain, an island, that is 8 to 10 stories tall, but it is an irregular topography. It is a slope up to two twin peaks that are connected with a rope bridge. And built into the side are cabanas and other special effects platforms, some of which are going to be occupied in the daytime by people and very luxurious premium kinds of recreational spots. And then there is a beach bar with white sand. And then from our convention center on the north there are zip lines that take people to the bar and from the side of the mountain there are zip lines that take them back the other way. There are ferries, little electric ferries that go out to the dock at the beach bar. That is to say this place is populated and at night the twin peaks are launching positions for our fireworks show and for other special effects that make up an entertainment moment at 9:00 to 9:30 or so at night. And the water ski show is in the afternoon at 3:00. So all of these elements make up this world behind here that we refer to as Paradise Park. When I had the Investor Day I had some preliminary stuff that we had worked on that was available to show, but we had stuff that wasn't in model form where we had taken the project further. The creative process in the design development phase of something like this is very dynamic and it changes on a weekly basis as we layer in all of the attractions and the things that make it irresistible to the 800,000 people a week that come to Las Vegas, the 118,000 people a day that promenade up and down that stay for 3.5 days and turn over twice a week. It also adds immeasurably to the sex appeal and value of the undeveloped real estate that is also fronted on the waterfront and viewing the island and enjoying all the water interactive things that take place. So, that is a little bit more conversation about Paradise Park. And you can understand that as these ideas are fleshed out, then we will be able to decide on the cost per foot to build the structure. In effect it's a hollow building that looks like Fantasy Island on the outside, but is hollow on the inside, very much like the small one that is in front of Wynn and the Lake of Dreams. Only this is taking that idea much further into another realm altogether. But this is not Epcot; we are not just building a body of water with a promenade around the edge. The American public has seen that before. When we do something here we do something that hasn't been seen before and offers people a chance to enjoy it, explore it and hopefully they will find that irresistible. Of course that is the developer speaking and you have to take me – the kinds of things I say with a grain of salt I guess. But we have been at it for 45 years and we have always managed to keep that promise.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you for that. And just a quick one for either Steve or Matt. Can you just – the margins in Macau, they are higher than they have been for a very long time. Was there anything in particular driving that?
Steve Cootey:
We did – if you look at the press release you will see our provision for doubtful accounts is down. So we did have an $8 million reversal of a debt that was fully collected. So that did impact EBITDA. But remember we also are carrying –.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, let's remind – $25 million a quarter and I can now tell the investment community that $100 million a year backpack we have got on the Peninsula property will come to an end on June 30. Ian is going to transfer the $25 million a month that he is carrying from Wynn, or $8.5 million a month, onto the new hotel where it belongs. And so, we are going to see the Peninsula property efficiency take a rather dramatic jump, which I hope will more than offset any of the kind of transference that occurs within a company when they open a second property. That is $25 million a quarter and this is the last quarter of that package being carried by the other hotel. Its profitability is greater than it has appeared.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Good afternoon, everyone. Maybe just to clarify on that last point, but just to be clear, are the expenses moving over at beginning of the second quarter or not until the end just so we can think about the models and the margins for next quarter?
Steve Wynn:
Day one of the third quarter. Day one of third quarter.
Shaun Kelley:
Perfect. And then maybe just one bigger picture question, Steve, but I was also intrigued by some of the answers around the Paradise Park comments from a moment ago. And a large competitor on the strip reported earnings this morning and also mentioned about some of the programming that they are doing around the park, their park project in talking a little bit more about accessible price points. And I'm just kind of curious at a high-level when you think about what you are doing and what the goal is behind Paradise Park. Is there an interplay here that you are trying to accomplish between the high-end and luxurious environment that you create at Wynn with a bit of a more mass-market appeal? Or how do you want to balance those two elements in terms of accessibility?
Steve Wynn:
Great question. Look, what do we do here now? We offer a more luxurious property with all kinds of choices in food, beverage and nightclubs for the young people, 5,000 people a night in excess and the beach club 5,000 people a day. These are not casino customers, these are people who are in search of a different form of recreation and we satisfy their demand. And we benefit from that to the tune of $30 million or $35 million a year, for example if we are talking about nightclubs, in EBITDA. So when we talk about Paradise Park, first of all, we put 1,000 rooms that are going to be the encore room with a 40 foot length room with a sitting area, they are petite suites, and we're going to add a balcony on each room facing the lake in a 17 story structure. Now that is probably going to be one of the most desirable hotel rooms in the country. I mean fireworks every night and all of this lunacy going on outside, staring at these remarkable scenes that we are going to build with activity going on. That certainly goes after a higher value customer. And then we are adding these gorgeous meeting rooms both as an add-on of an 85,000 foot meeting room and 50,000 feet – I mean 85,000 ballroom and 50,000 feet of meeting rooms next to La Fete [ph] in the Wynn side. And then we're adding a 25,000 and a 50,000 foot ballroom and I guess another 35,000 foot of meeting rooms on the new side, on the Paradise Park side. All of these rooms and facilities have terraces and open areas, open onto this show that is in the middle. So to that extent we are playing, aren't we, to a high price point. But on the other hand, I am going to charge every single person $20 to $30 to experience Paradise Park whether I do it as part of the room charge, as a resort fee per night or whether I do it for people coming in off the street, part of those 118,000 people a day that are visiting the town. I'm going to charge for it and that is going to make this place accessible. It is $100 to go to Disneyland; we are going to charge $20. But you are talking about revenues of $300,000 or $400,000 a day if anybody shows up. And this is high-margin business. So to one extent, as we do in our existing 4,700 rooms, soon to be 5,700 if this project proceeds as planned, we will be getting mass business and we will be increasing our occupancy in the existing rooms and creating occupancy in expensive rooms on the lake. That is what we are trying to do. But I made a point that is worth repeating incessantly. You cannot get dynamic with gaming equipment. It is only gaming equipment, it is always the same everywhere in the world, at the most humble regional box of slots to the fanciest place. The trick is how many people come through the casino and what is their average income, at what level in the economic scale are they? That is how we manage to increase and break the record in casino revenues at every place we have ever built since 1989. Nothing really – conceptually in our planning nothing is really changing. Wynn Paradise Park is a further extension of the same mentality taking advantage of imagination and fantasy on property that we own for zero with water rights that we own for zero, and we are the only ones that have them at this size. And we are going to do it with solar power and we are going to use less water than a golf course. So we are going to be very green at the same time. I hope that responds to your question.
Shaun Kelley:
Thank you very much.
Steve Wynn:
Yes.
Operator:
Your next comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Thanks and good afternoon. Just on the topic of the April trends you mentioned, Steve. Could you elaborate maybe a little bit more just on what specifically in Macau you are seeing that is improving year-over-year? Obviously your mass business has been a lot more stable just in terms of what you saw in April that is encouraging.
Steve Wynn:
Ian, would you like to talk about that? Or Linda?
Ian Coughlan:
Sure. April was another very steady month. The trend of our VIP business junkets and our direct business being stabilized continued. Mass continued to grow in the mid-tier for us. 60% of the room inventory is allocated to mass and slots right now. And we were also impacted by two extremely strong days at the end of April. The May holiday actually kicked in the last two days of April and we held really well. So we got a really nice bump at the end of the month. But in many cases it is just continued stability throughout. Retail was up sequentially month over month, quarter over quarter, so we are seeing some signs that the worst is over.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you. And then as you guys have kind of honed in on the $25 million a quarter of the labor expense savings, which I believe is consistent with what you guys had said at the Analyst Day nearly a month ago, do you have – is it safe to say that to come up with that number you have a relatively decent idea of the table capacity you expect to have at Cotai?
Steve Wynn:
Yes. We have a positive expectation but no guarantee. So I think it is probably good to stay away from that because I wouldn't want to be perceived as putting myself in the government's shoes.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understandable. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joseph Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
Hello, everyone.
Steve Wynn:
There you are Joe. We missed you at first.
Joseph Greff:
Sorry about that. Steve, maybe you can talk about what you think will come out of the government's midterm review and then how the government is looking at the conclusions drawn there for any future policy changes.
Steve Wynn:
We have some idea of what the review had to say in general terms. And that was that the upgrade, the expansion of the appeal of the Macau market was successful in every way, either met or exceeded the goals that were set early at the millennium. It also resulted in inflation and the cost of living which has put some pressure on the local people as far as their rents. And that has resulted in the government putting pressure on us to keep raising wages which we have all done. In our case I think we have led the market because of our stock ownership and other things we have done. And the other hotels have also been rather aggressive in responding to the government. And I think those are the main ingredients unless, Matt, you know more or Gamal or Ian or Linda – do you know more about it? And you know, you have heard the question. And I think any of my people in China that want to respond can feel free to do so.
Ian Coughlan:
Based on the significant gathering of information it seems to be a very fact driven analysis of what has happened over the last 10 years. And we are not expecting any negative aspect to it. It is really just a health check to see where we have been, what we have promised and what we have delivered as an industry and then to set some markers for the future.
Steve Wynn:
There's is definitely an indication that there will be no surprises.
Joseph Greff:
Great. And then Steve Cootey, just a couple of financial-related questions. Interest expense was down meaningfully, can't be all related to capitalized interest. What was going on there in the 1Q?
Steve Cootey:
It's actually all related to capitalized interest. So we took the opportunity to capitalize about $25 million of interest we should have capitalized in last year related to Palace.
Joseph Greff:
Got it. And then one final question, cash balances in Macau?
Steve Cootey:
Cash balance in Macau about $865 million as of March 31.
Joseph Greff:
Great, thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Good afternoon. A couple of your peers in Macau reported having to take higher than normal bad debt provisions this past quarter. Can you just talk about the overall collections environment and the junket environment in general? Thanks.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure. It is Matt Maddox. So as I talked about before, if you noticed our bad debt provision was actually lower year-over-year because we are collecting debts that we fully reserved. And we haven't really seen any change in our collection process, it is very stable in our direct program right now.
Steve Wynn:
But you know [indiscernible] we have got a history of being very conservative in that area. And nothing has changed after 45 years.
Thomas Allen:
Helpful, thanks. And just quickly to follow up on that, Matt, that reversal wasn't just related to a single player or anything like that, that was a more general reversal. And all folded into my next question is there has been some talk about –.
Steve Wynn:
Wait. Hold it. There was one piece of information where it was a single person.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, that is correct. That large reversal was a single person.
Steve Wynn:
It was a junket operator.
Thomas Allen:
Okay, helpful.
Steve Wynn:
I don't know how important it is, but I just wanted to correct that.
Thomas Allen:
Okay, perfect. And then there has been some talk in the market about proxy betting being regulated more in Macau. Any thoughts around that?
Steve Wynn:
They've ended it. Okay, as of now it is illegal, there is no more phone betting. They stopped it today, the DJIC made it official. It is finito.
Thomas Allen:
Any thoughts on how big of an impact that could be?
Steve Wynn:
There is no more phone betting.
Matt Maddox:
It is insignificant to Wynn I can tell you.
Thomas Allen:
Okay, perfect. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
But it is officially not permitted. So no one will be doing it as of now.
Thomas Allen:
Perfect. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley:
Great, thanks. Just looking at the performance of the other resort that opened most recently in Cotai that has maybe ramped up a little slower than expectations. Does that sort of concern you about when you think about your property opening this year and another property opening in a pretty close timeframe? Do you think there is any conclusion to be drawn from the slower ramp up that this other property is seeing?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I feel badly for our sub-concessionaire, Melco, who owns 60% of the place. I'm sure they are not happy with the results. Lawrence Ho is a very smart guy and I am sure you will see improvement there. Robin, if I understand correctly, you are wondering if that impacts our expectation on Palace, right. That is your main…
Robin Farley:
Yes, and opening so close to – in such a close timeframe to another project as well later this year.
Steve Wynn:
Parisian?
Robin Farley:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. We have repeated many times that we expected a competitive environment. Matt, at the Investor Day, took quite a bit of time to show where the business was, where does casino activity in Macau really come from. And that there has been this false identification of mass versus premium. The junket operator with the dead chips or the low level mass table games with the buses on the other hand. And nothing is further from the truth. That is a misunderstanding. The bulk of this market ranges rapidly up into what we call and I think we tend to categorize this a little bit too generally, mass premium. But the money in Macau is all based upon the better customer, both the cash customer with the regular chips and of course the people who play with the non-redeemable chips. But the money in Macau – when we say mass we are not talking about Circus for example at one end of the Las Vegas spectrum versus Wynn or Bellagio. What really goes on in Macau is all the money is in the better category of player at every level. Now the people that design these various new hotels, they make a bunch of decisions long before groundbreaking about what they are going to show the public, who they want their customer to be. And they define these things by the size of their rooms, the width of the corridors, the quality and selection of restaurants, the entire treatment of the interior decor, the flow of the elements of the hotel, which incidentally place specific emphasis and priorities on certain elements versus others because as you create the flow in these places you demonstrate your priorities to the public. This hotel, the Wynn Palace, was designed to appeal specifically to the heart and soul, the premium customer in Macau. The Studio City project was articulated by its developers as a place that was designed to appeal to the mass, the lower end. Parisian has a bulk of rooms, many of whom are much smaller than ours. The cost factors associated with these places, all of the decisions that are made by the developers define the product when it finally is launched. We have seen the competition in Macau, we have studied them with respect and in some cases admiration for their execution. But I'm going to say it one more time. We are not in that ZIP Code. We are not in that area code. When you see it, Robin, you will understand. This place has a different – a level than Bellagio, Wynn Macau, Wynn Las Vegas or Encore Las Vegas. This is a different place. So it is designed in every single element to appeal to that part of the market that goes from a 1,000 unit average bet of Hong Kong dollars to 1 million. And so, when we look at Studio City we don't see any comparison with us. Now when you asked me about Parisian and how do I feel about it opening right after us, I don't really know what Sheldon did, because we haven't seen it, and what his thinking was and his colleagues and where they were going to position Parisian. But I suspect that no one is directly challenging our market position at this point, unless SJM does. There is that character with the red Rolls-Royce that is building a place called Louis XIV that has 100 rooms or something and doesn't have any tables yet, but it is over in Coloane. I think his rhetoric is that it is going to be the fanciest thing in the world, the 100 rooms on Coloane. We don't stay up late night worrying about him. But in terms of the Parisian, as we have heard – Sheldon Adelson prefers to stay in the middle or what he calls the fat part of the market. And they do a very good job at that. We are positioned differently, Robin. If you were on our side of this I think you would probably agree that is the only way to go if you are Wynn and that is what we have done. So we don't have much heartburn about Studio City. I hope for their sake that it is a big success and sooner or later I believe that Lawrence Ho and James Packer will figure that out and make that place perform. And we do like the long-term prospects of Macau. We think the market will catch up with us all sooner or later. In the meantime, we may snatch a little market share here and there.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. That is helpful. My other question was on Vegas and the project that you have talked about, $300 million in EBITDA. Can you walk us through a little bit – I mean there's a 1,000 room hotel. And so, if we assume it will do premium to the hotel rooms that you have now. But that still probably doesn't get – can you talk about what some of the other pieces of EBITDA incrementally from that project may be to kind of get to a number in that $300 million range?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I think that – I wanted everybody to know everything that was on our plate for the next five years, and so that, as I said at the meeting, we were playing our cards face up. But I think that the specifics of the math on Paradise Park should await more specific conversation when we can equate revenue to costs and really be responsive to that question. But remember, Robin, it is not a project until my Board says it is a project. And all of us in management have more work to do before we present it for the green light vote at the Board level. And because of the complexity and the really transitional impact that this project will have on Las Vegas, we want to make sure that we have done our homework and been very complete. And then we are going to discuss all this in great detail with you and the members of the investment community, the buy and sell side people in enormous detail. All I can say is this point is in my view it is overwhelmingly good news. It is my favorite thing in my career that I have ever done. It is the most fun I've ever had. In my opinion it's the most – it's the safest and most clear-cut opportunity in terms of real estate development that I've ever seen my life. So with that we proceed happily along the road of completion.
Robin Farley:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Hello. I just had one question turning to Massachusetts, which seems a bit like whack-a-mole. When Boston gets resolved then another city pops up. And wondering what you think of the challenge process. Do you think once you get through Somerville that that really is the end of it and you can dial up your investment?
Steve Wynn:
The answer is we will get through Somerville and we will be in construction this summer. And the property in Boston will be unlike any other casino outside of Las Vegas in the United States of America. And I make that statement unequivocally. It is designed, it is drawn and it is virtually priced. We have a few last-minute tweaks that we can do in value engineering, but it will stand alone against anything that exists other than the city of Las Vegas or the strip in Las Vegas period. Period. Look, remember I said at the Investment Day that both the Palace in Asia and the Wynn in Boston – in the metropolitan area of Boston – both of them are not only great investments for this Company but they are case studies going forward for any other city that wants to try get in Asia, any other country or any other city in America that wants to have a grand hotel that employs people and is a credit to the community where gambling is subordinated but available, but that the resort and destination aspects of the building are unequivocal. The Massachusetts project will be exactly that sort of case study. And we think that is an important part of our future. Instead of having to do the developer speak like I am today talking about Paradise Park, we can just keep quiet and say here, look at this. Here Seoul Korea, Taiwan, anyplace else, look at Wynn Palace, we have nothing else to say. We rest. We don't have any body copy, we have no developer speak, just look at what we have done. I know a lot of the guys in my business talk about how great their buildings are. Well, get ready. In the month of July there is a new girl in town and we are going to meet her face to face and all the boys and girls in Macau can come take a look. This is a game for adults.
Harry Curtis:
Very good. Can I just ask one other question on turning back to Vegas? Matt, can you give us a sense of how the balance of Vegas' bookings are looking this year? And do you think that 2017, based on what is on the books today, looks as good if not better for 2017?
Steve Wynn:
Well, Maurice is here too.
Maurice Wooden:
So looking forward we continue to see the same type of growth that we had in the first quarter. We anticipate our revenues on the hotel side to be up around 5%. As far as what is on the books, we feel very confident that we have a nice stability in all segments. And like I said, we continue to look at revenue growth. And a lot of that is – when we talk about revenue growth for us we are focused on cash revenue growth. And so, if you look at our first quarter, we were up $6 million in overall hotel revenue and all $6 million was in cash.
Steve Wynn:
We concentrate on cash.
Harry Curtis:
And any thoughts on 2017 forward bookings?
Maurice Wooden:
Again, we look very healthy. We have strong forward bookings in our convention area, so we are really satisfied with where we are at right now.
Harry Curtis:
That is very helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of David Katz with Telsey Advisory Group.
David Katz:
Good afternoon. If I can just follow up on Harry's question, because I was thinking along the same lines about what the gating factors are or could be. Is this – I don't mean to be too repetitive about it, but is this Somerville challenge, is that really the one gating factor to starting to spend some money and get in the ground?
Steve Wynn:
Yes. In a word, yes.
David Katz:
Okay, and if you could just give us an updated thought on when approximately it might open now that you've gotten us excited about it.
Steve Wynn:
Suffolk Construction – John Fish brought his old management team for their quarterly retreat and he wanted them to see what Wynn was really like. So they had the retreat of all of his company in this hotel. They didn't even tell us they were coming, they paid retail here at the hotel. But we had a chance to talk to them and John has said 28 months of construction. So that is straight from the builder and he signed his name to it.
David Katz:
And if I may just –.
Steve Wynn:
With liquid data damages.
David Katz:
Understood. There are still some machinations about other casinos in the area and on that side of the state. Does any of that factor into your thinking or strategies about what you are doing?
Steve Wynn:
No, as a matter of fact that one casino that is being built is being managed by the folks from Malaysia, from Genting. And I had coffee with K.T. Lin day before yesterday – yesterday actually, and it is very much like Macau. It is a different market share than we are in. This thing in Boston is pure Wynn. It is the Wynn Las Vegas in a new form moved to Massachusetts. So naturally it is going to appeal to a different kind of customer than the stuff that is up there now. And it was designed to do so. So I don't think it affects our expectation about revenue and the opportunity there if that is your question.
David Katz:
That is my question. Thank you very much.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your last question comes from the line of Joseph Greff from JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff:
Just one quick follow-up. Last month, Steve, the Board authorized an increased share repurchase authorization. Can you talk about how you are thinking about buybacks right now and actually why did you up the authorization?
Steve Wynn:
Well, we never know what the Street is going to do with the funky trading. And we all feel that, both as individuals and as a Company, that we should be prepared to take advantage of real opportunity when it occurs. And my Board feels that way and so do I. So we just wanted to make sure that we are properly armed in case there was something strange that happened on Wall Street and the stock market dropped or our stock went to a level that we thought was grossly oversold we would jump on it. As long as the short players fool around for a buck or two that is fine. But when shorts – the exchanges really don't enforce the rules of make it shorts. So it is an unconscionable manipulation of the stock that occurs. They open up every morning and the high-frequency traders and the shorts have a ball selling shares and then value buyers step in in the afternoon and they cover the shorts. It is regular casino activity. The activity on the stock markets is in my view poorly regulated and irresponsibly policed, especially with regard to short sales. And when it gets out of hand we see a lot of shorts because of China. Because we are such a clear China play we probably had a bigger percentage wouldn't you say, Steve Cootey?
Steve Cootey:
Yes, that is right.
Steve Wynn:
Short interest in our shares.
Steve Cootey:
14 million shares as of…
Steve Wynn:
14 million shares. And although I can't do nothing about it myself I take advantage of it when it gets out of line and buy shares. I mean it is fine when they drive the stock down for reasons that are irrelevant and completely disconnected from anything to do with our business operations. So the stock market has got more volatile, more stupid as a gambling game than ever before. And I look at it that way to be honest with you. I have very little respect for the integrity of the trading on the exchange in most stocks. And I have particular disdain for the fact that the SEC has failed to deal with high-frequency traders who are doing nothing more than taking advantage of inside information, a buy or a sell order, because of technology advantages. If you read Flash Boys it is all spelled out for you. And if I execute an order I will use the IX – I'll use Brad Katsuyama if I was buying something so that I couldn't be fronted by the high-frequency traders, but there is enough a lot of that going on. The other day I was watching the stock open up and it went up on share volumes of a few thousand shares. I mean every trade was a tick up. That is not the way it should operate in an honestly or intelligently run exchange, but that is the thing. All those guys sold their dark pools and their order flow and the positioning on the floors of the servers to the HFTs. And it has made a couple guys that I am friendly with very rich because they are high-frequency traders. But I don't respect the activity. And I am severely critical of it and don't mind saying so either.
Joseph Greff:
Thank you.
Operator:
There are no further questions at this time.
Steve Cootey:
Okay thanks, everybody, for joining. We will talk next quarter.
Operator:
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Stephen Cootey - CFO, SVP and Treasurer Steve Wynn - Chairman and CEO Matt Maddox - President Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts, Macau S.A. Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas
Analysts:
Joe Greff - JPMorgan Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Thomas Allen - Morgan Stanley Harry Curtis - Nomura Felicia Hendrix - Barclays David Katz - Telsey Advisory Group Adam Trivison - Gabelli & Co.
Operator:
Good afternoon. My name is Jennifer and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Wynn Resorts fourth quarter 2015 earnings call. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. And I would like to turn the conference over to Stephen Cootey, CFO of Wynn Resorts. Sir, you may begin.
Stephen Cootey:
Good afternoon and welcome to the Wynn Resorts fourth quarter 2015 earnings call. Thank you and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Maurice Wooden and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from both our Las Vegas and Macau properties. Before we get started, I just want to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under the Safe Harbor federal securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
Well, we released the numbers a few weeks ago and so there is no real revelations to discuss. I think probably what is interesting is to say that January in Macau, if I can anticipate some of the questions, was our best month in a long time. Happy to say so. And Chinese New Year is in progress, but early in the week, a little too soon to say, the mass component clearly looks a little stronger than in the past. It is too soon to tell because the weekend is coming up with the VIPs. So that is pretty much the way we feel about China in terms of current first quarter numbers. With regard to Las Vegas, January was terrific and Super Bowl and February are off to a roaring start. And between that and President's weekend, Las Vegas is an apple pie shape up through the 15th which will be Monday. The question in Las Vegas will be how is the last 14 days. But as of now business is pretty good in the United States and holding its own in Macau. With regard to our project, we issued some statements, we are working with our contractor to get them to catch up so that we will have an opening in June. They believe they will make the June 25 date, which was the contract date of our relationship with our builder, and it is possible they could be late but hopefully they won't be. We are working very closely with them to try and catch up in any areas that need to be caught up. And our fancy hotel will be ready for public display later this year. We’re going to start work in Boston, hard construction. We are doing remediation at the moment. We've come to happy terms with our neighbors in Boston. And that was a relief. And now we are going to proceed with constructing this wonderful destination resort in Boston metropolitan area in Everett, and benefit I hope people throughout the region, and have a very exciting hotel to boot. And with that, and reminding you that all of us are here to take your questions, we'll begin to do so.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Steve, one topic that has been noteworthy of late, and not to be too personal or untoward, but Steve it's been noticeable, your open market share repurchases here and it is gotten a lot [Technical Difficulty]. I was hoping we could get an answer as to your interest in buying stock at these levels. Is it [Technical Difficulty] or is it that you are sensing on the fundamental side -- and obviously given your comments about Macau in January in Chinese New Year [Technical Difficulty]?
Steve Wynn:
I lost a part of your sentence. What did he say, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
He was asking about your open market purchases, what is your view?
Steve Wynn:
Okay. My view is that I like Wynn Resorts especially because I think that management is great. But I like the stock, I like the stock a lot, and I bought it on what I thought was an extreme weakness in price. That's my own personal opinion. I don't give investment advice, nor do I have any -- there is no inside information in this company. We tell you everything including I just reported the first week and a half of February. I don't know anything that you don't know, Joe. But I like the company's long-term prospects. I like our latent assets in Nevada. I like our opportunity in Massachusetts. And I like the long-term prospects in China and beyond. So I like my company. And when it’s trading at low levels, I’m always prepared, depending on my financial capacity, to buy the stock on weakness. I reserve the right to do that at any time and I may very well do so. I think I bought a few shares a few days ago, so that is just my mindset. And I can't be any more clear about it. I am subject to stepping in to the market and buying my own stock at any time that I have the -- if I have extra cash and I think that the stock is a good buy. And I certainly did and do at these levels. So off I go. Does that answer your question, Joe?
Joe Greff:
Answers it perfectly. That is all for me. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next question is from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, thanks and good afternoon, everyone. If I could, Steve or anybody, for Macau that would be willing to answer it. As you guys contemplate a few things, and this might be a two-part question, but when you think about big picture China, potential currency devaluation, how do you kind of handicap that as to what it means for the Macau enterprise? And then if I could take a bigger picture question as it pertains to your -- the future post the opening of Cotai. Obviously, you will be in construction of Boston. But Steve, could you talk a little bit about other potential contemplated developments or uses of cash flow once Cotai is up and running?
Steve Wynn:
Well, currently, we’ve got a project that is going to start in the spring right here in Las Vegas. We sold our Ferrari dealership to the Rolls-Royce dealer in town, Roger Penske and I. And reclaiming that valuable space we are moving poker over to Encore. And starting at the casino corner where the ticket counter is now for the showrooms, we are going to have retail and a new retail mall that goes through where Ferrari was and a two-story building with a beautiful glass roof, an atrium kind of structure, that has 75,000 feet of rentable space. And we expect that we will pick up somewhere between $20 million and $25 million in extra income and probably $0.30 worth of new payroll. I mean just a pickup in EBITDA because we had 300 or more feet on the strip right on the sidewalk in unused real estate that was very, very valuable. And, along with other real estate that we own in Las Vegas, represents an opportunity for future development that is quite unique. We -- I remind everybody that the golf course is 130 acres and we have 1,000 acre-feet of water in our own wells that were purchased with the Desert Inn Water Company in 2000. I look at that as an asset. And China and its complexity has made us refocus on some of the things that we have going for us that are already in our -- under our control. So all of that is the kind of thing that we can examine. As I told you, the strip real estate, I have already committed to a drawing and the project is underway, probably costs $70 million. And the interest on the money is -- if we borrow 100% of it or if we use our cash, our cost of money is less than 5%. And we pick up $20 million or $23 million in EBITDA just by plucking off something that we own for nothing. We’ve got a lot of options like that here and that makes the company exciting. It is another reason why I like the stock. Because none of our assets are a secret, none of the opportunities that this company possesses are unknown to anybody, they are all sitting out there in plain view. And I don't mind discussing them when someone asks. But I'm certainly not going to ignore them. I think Boston is going to be the Everett Boston metropolitan area opportunity is enormous. And we can't wait to be there. It's the first time we've ever had a hotel that has nonstop service from every major capital in the world, Hainan Airlines and Cathay Pacific fly nonstop from Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai to Boston. So does every other world capital, nonstop to Boston. And we are 12 minutes from Logan Airport with our new hotel. So all of that sort of makes me feel confident and positive about our future prospects.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, Steve, thank you. And if I could, if anyone from Macau was on, I would love to understand a little bit about the experience with potentially the currency devaluation. And what maybe some of the team has heard from customers as to what it could ultimately mean down the road. And how maybe their circumstances, the impacts it would have on the business in their opinion, if any.
Steve Wynn:
Well, first of all, I think Matt can comment on that or Steve Cootey.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, sure, what I would say is the global currency wars are impossible to predict. Look at what the Fed is talking about interest rates now in the United States. So we look at how we hedge our risks with the debt that we borrow and the denominations of the debt, but there is really nothing we can do about countries trying to devalue their currency.
Steve Wynn:
I think his question is, what impact will it have on our customers in their own Chinese domestic environment. Do you have an opinion about that, Ian?
Ian Coughlan:
We haven't had any direct feedback from customers at this point, Steve. It doesn't seem to be troubling people. It is probably too early to call.
Steve Wynn:
Yes. Like any devaluation, if you are buying domestic products, you don't feel it. If you are buying and you are trading internationally, you do feel it. If you are an exporter and a businessman in China and you are one of our customers, and they are, then devaluing the currency increases your ability to sell your products outside China. So a devaluation, which is of course a methodology of supporting the economy, tends to make our customers have more liquidity. And when we talk about devaluation, QE 1, 2 and 3 took the US dollar down by 18% or 20%. So you can judge what a devalued currency impact has on people by taking a look at what happened right here in the United States where we did precisely that with our federal reserve interventions in QE 1, 2 and 3.
Carlo Santarelli :
That's helpful. Thank you all very much.
Operator:
And our next question comes from Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs.
Steven Kent:
Hi. A couple of questions. First, there is definitely a narrative that seems to be gaining traction that Macau is bottoming out. Broadly I’d love to know if any of you agree with that. And what numbers do you think we can look at that are away from gaming that would suggest that that is bottoming out? And what I mean by that is economic factors or anything along those lines or visitation or anything that we can look at that would suggest that. And then one other thing just because I didn't completely understand it. Can you just walk us through the $33.8 million decrease in fair value of the redemption note, which resulted in net income attributable to Wynn Resorts of around $22 million? That should have been recorded in September 30. I don't -- I'm not sure I have ever seen that before. I'm not sure what happened there or what that means.
Stephen Cootey:
Sure, so where do we want to start?
Steve Wynn:
Do you want to start with the first part of the question or the second part?
Matt Maddox:
I will start with – I can – it’s Matt Maddox, I am here with Steve Cootey, we can cover the accounting issue on the note, the redemption note. What happens is, Steve, that is like banks have to do, it is fair value accounting. So you have to go through and look at the yields on your debt and then apply those yields to that parent company $1.9 billion 2% note. And because high yields gapped out what that meant is that 2% note in theory should have had a higher yield. So you have to reduce the value of the note on the balance sheet and that increases profits through the income statement only to come back around later. And it is non-cash fair value accounting. And in fact, the FASB is already looking at changing that starting next year. And Bank of America is implementing it where it will run through the balance sheet only because it is destroying financial institutions' income statements.
Steven Kent:
Okay.
Steve Wynn:
Does that clarify that?
Steven Kent:
Yes, thanks. So then let's talk -- bottoming out maybe will be -- that I understand better.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, how about the bottoming out part, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Well, Steve --.
Steve Wynn:
Non-casino stuff, do you see any non-casino economic information that would give us a statement, a clear economic view of the Macau market, or China for that matter? Did I repeat your question properly?
Steven Kent:
Yes you did, Steve.
Steve Wynn:
Okay, good. So take a crack at it, Maddox. I don't have any idea how to answer that question.
Matt Maddox:
Well, we've focused on our retail volumes and we are noticing that some of our retailers are starting to stabilize a little bit more compared to last year and the previous quarters. Our hotel occupancies are remaining about the same as they have been and we are seeing some pick up there. And then, Steve, you track all the visitation just like we do from each region. And the visitation also feels like it is stabilizing. So, all the China macro data is confusing for the moment, but what we see in our building and visitation to Macau feels like it has been stabilizing since November. And I think you'd hear that from all the operators.
Steven Kent:
Okay, thank you.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Robin Farley with UBS.
Unidentified Analyst:
Hi, thank you very much. It is actually Arpino [ph] for Robin. Could you comment at all on the health of the junket system in terms of what you saw through Chinese New Year? What did you guys see that has changed versus let's say a couple months ago? Any color on further consolidation?
Steve Wynn:
We see junket operators going retracting. We have less than we had -- we were at 14 at one point, I think we are down to 8 or 9 now and probably heading for 4 or 5 before we are done. The strong ones with liquidity and balance sheets are doing good business, but the ones that were newer or less firmly capitalized, they seem to be having trouble staying in business. And that is pretty much the story I think around town. The ones that we have, we check up on regularly and they are fine, but there is fewer of them.
Unidentified Analyst:
Right.
Steve Wynn:
When they show any weakness we cease relationships with them, and we have done that with five of them already.
Unidentified Analyst:
And just one real quick question. As you prepare to open Wynn Palace on Cotai, what are some of the return metrics internally that you are looking to meet? Any color on those expectations? What would meet your near-term EBITDA hurdle on a run rate basis? In other words, has anything changed post-Chinese New Year or what you were looking at sort of internally versus now?
Steve Wynn:
Well, we are not post-Chinese New Year yet. As a matter fact, we haven't really seen Chinese New Year in full bloom until this weekend.
Unidentified Analyst:
Right.
Steve Wynn:
Okay, just I know that doesn't necessarily impact your question, but -- or our answer for that matter. Matt, do you want to take a shot at that?
Matt Maddox:
I don't think anything that has happened in the last few weeks has changed our outlook on Palace. We still believe that it is going to be a market share taker out at Cotai and predicting the Macau market has been hard. All we are saying is the market feels stable right now and we are confident in our product. We don't put out EBITDA projections for new projects.
Unidentified Analyst:
Right, I was more asking about how those expectations have changed just internally versus a couple months ago.
Steve Wynn:
They haven't.
Matt Maddox:
They haven't.
Steve Wynn:
They haven't to answer you, now I understand your question. I can answer that. Our expectations haven't changed. The assumptions we have made in the business plan remain the same. Remember, when we got to the point of doing those assumptions, changes already occurred in the marketplace. So we haven't made any changes recently to our assessment.
Unidentified Analyst:
Great, thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon everyone. Steve, I just wanted to ask about in your prepared remarks you mentioned a little bit about the filing that you had with the contractor for Cotai. Just given how important the project is to kind of the next phase here for the company, can you just give us a little bit more color on if that were to slip or move at all any -- kind of any potential on the magnitude? Is it down to relatively small kind of differences at this point? And just any more color on what could move around on that would probably be helpful.
Steve Wynn:
Well, it is nothing more complicated than they got a little bit behind. And they have a plan on catching up. We are working very closely with them and there is a very good chance that they will. And even if they don't it will be close. So that is pretty much the way we see it now. That is a description of where we stand. Now, in the trenches the work is feverish, there are 9,500 people on the job. And everybody has got their chins down and are paying attention. It is a very, very ambitious extravagant product. I have talked about it over a period of a year or two to all of you in these conference calls. We aimed very high. And that has put pressure on the finishes of the building. Of course, it's a fancy place to say the least. And all of the subs are working to do their best job and they will get there, they will get there give or take a few weeks I think they will be fine. There is not much more you can say about it than that. I mean when they told me they were going to finish early in September they gave us a written notice that they were going to achieve the early completion bonus of $38 million. And so, we shared that with you because they notified us in writing. And then when they told us that that was doubtful because we had shared it with the public, we thought it was incumbent upon us to also share with the public that there wasn't going to be an early bonus or an early completion. But I want to remind everybody that the original contract was for June 25 that we would complete this project in the first half of 2016. And hopefully that date will stand or right close to it. And that is where we are at the moment.
Shaun Kelley:
That is helpful. And maybe just one follow up would be -- you started to get into sort of your staffing levels and plans for the property for the actual casino level employees. Should we be sort of expecting that that starts to move over and see some cost savings at the kind of Wynn Macau property level sometime in early second-quarter, is that probably appropriate given the timeline that you have laid out?
Steve Wynn:
There is a really good question and it goes to the heart of my instructions. Usually the way it has worked in the past, we have two critical paths, one is that of the completion, the construction and the finishing of the building and the other one is the critical path that is the spooling up and the hiring and training of the full staff of thousands of people to run the place. And under ideal conditions those two critical paths move in exactly parallel and coterminous step. They meet at the exact same point on the opening day. When the construction gets behind, in and of itself that is not a big deal. I mean, so the building is a few weeks late. But what is important is that you don't go and hire a whole bunch of people that are sitting -- getting paid and twiddling their thumbs. That is very, very damaging financially. So what I did with Matthew when we were there a couple months ago, I have changed the order of March. And I said I want our landmark dates on turnover of the building to occur before we do the hiring if possible. In other words, let's make sure that our critical path of hiring doesn't get ahead of the critical path of the building. Then the impact of being a few weeks late is not so -- is not quite as serious as it might have been if we went to full staff. So that is where that stands and I am happy to say that we are in equilibrium at the moment.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question is from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Hey, how are you? So, Steve, in your prepared remarks you said that Las Vegas was an apple pie shape. And if you think about it from where we sit, it seems like the economy is anything, but an apple pie shape. So why do you think there is that disconnect and do think it can realistically continue and, if it can, for how long? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Well, we are holding high and we have got this very privileged kind of patronage. It is one of the advantages -- there are advantages and disadvantages of having a high end super quality resort. For example, your average customer tends to be a little wealthier, a little better able to afford more expensive food and wine and hotel rates. On the other hand, if you are the place of choice for baccarat for international visitors, anything that interferes with that tends to work against you because we had more baccarat business than anybody else in Las Vegas. So when baccarat is affected from China we are the ones that get the biggest impact. On the other hand, there is still a lot of good customers around. And from what we can see we are still the one of the places of first choice, if not the place of first choice. And we do everything we can to keep it that way, of course. And since New Year's it is working as it was designed to work. We've got better room rates and our casino is profitable. Our margins in the casino, even though sometimes our drop or our handle is off. We tend to be very fastidious about having all of our games be profitable. We don't pay so much attention to the top line as we do to the bottom line. So when we evaluate the casino, we don't evaluate the handle or the Wynn, we evaluate the contribution to EBITDA of our games. And we try to maximize every foot of the casino with one metric in mind, contribution of EBITDA per foot. Well, that sort of thing comes home after a while and we get the benefits of it and we see it now. That is what I said the place was in good shape, I am happy with the performance. And our turnout for New Year's, for Christmas/New Year's, January with the conventions, that's another thing. When there is a big citywide convention and corporate leaders and high paid people come to the conventions they want to stay here. And their propensity to gamble is higher as is their desire to eat in better restaurants and shop in better stores, so forth and so on. So I am happy with the way Wynn Las Vegas is performing. And that is what I meant when I said it is an apple pie shape, that is an old-fashioned expression. Did I answer your question?
Thomas Allen:
You did. I mean I guess just following up, if we are going into a recession, how do you think Vegas can hold up? Obviously you have a lot less supply growth this time than we did in ’08 and ‘09? And then as a follow-up also, you did mention you are exposed more to more of that high-end baccarat play. Have we seen any signs that that stabilized in Vegas over the past few months? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Well, Chinese New Year will certainly be interesting and it is not – we are just starting it. We are three days into a seven or eight day event. I would say baccarat business is off in Las Vegas unquestionably. Is it going to get worse or is it stabilized? I don't know, too soon for me to answer that question. But if there is a recession in America, and it is hard to see why there won't be if we keep going the way we are, then Las Vegas will ultimately reflect whatever is going on in the rest of the United States. It always has. There's sometimes been a delay if conventions are booked and things like that, but at the end we always seem to be just like anybody else, part of America and a big reflection of it. So I don't want you to construe my remarks about a healthy January and a promising February to mean that we're running counter to anything else you're seeing. We're just lucky, that's all. Just luck, we're holding high. I don't want to make too much of it.
Thomas Allen:
Very helpful, thanks, Steve.
Operator:
Our next question come from Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Hi, good afternoon. I did have a follow-up to Thomas' last question. Do you have any visibility into the second half of the year for Vegas? I mean if we don't go into recession what’s on the books that gives you some confidence that you will see some continued pricing power?
Steve Wynn:
The perfect guy to answer that question is sitting next to me, Maurice Wooden, who runs America for us. He is the boss man of Las Vegas and for that matter Wynn America that is where we tucked in Boston. Bob DeSalvio is not on the call, but he is working on construction. Maurice, do you want to come over here and deal with that?
Maurice Wooden:
Sure. I mean when we are looking forward into the second quarter, I think we see very stable, very confident business on the books that we believe that for the next quarter will be in good shape, consistent with where we are today with the first quarter. When we look at Las Vegas, the question was asked about baccarat play and others, and I think again it is just too early to tell about the gaming side of it. But on the non-gaming we are very focused on cash contribution and we figured out different ways to make sure that we make up any shortfalls in the casino with looking at other parts of our business, so we believe that we can get that cash contribution.
Harry Curtis:
My question was really focused on the second half. Can you share any data points that give you some confidence as to how that looks?
Maurice Wooden:
Sure. And again, looking at second quarter or the second half it is the very same answer I would give you is that we look at our books and we see what is on the books and we are very comfortable and confident that we have a healthy base of business in the second half of the year.
Harry Curtis:
Okay, great. Steve, I wanted to switch gears going back to the Palace, because it was originally designed for the premium players. And while there may be still some of those left by the time you open, the question I have is, how have you changed or are you changing your marketing several months before it opens given the focus on more of the -- less of a premium player?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I am not sure that the premise of your question is one that I want to accept on the face of it. I am not sure that our marketing strategy should change one spec. We may not have 12 junket operators in 14, we may have four or five, but there are no shortage of wealthy gamblers in China. And there are no shortage of premium mass players in China. And our building was -- we made an adjustment to allow for some of the junket areas to be premium mass and stuff like that. We made modest adjustments in the facility presentation and the furniture, so to speak. But look, there used to be this avalanche of revenue for all these casinos and all these junket operators in Macau. So now there are fewer of them. So where are they going to gamble? I mean, they are going to go to the place that somehow meets all of their expectations. We designed a place to be that. So I think that considering how many casinos there are in America and in Las Vegas and we get more than our share of the business, to worry about whether you are going to get a proper share in Macau is really a waste of time. The answer is positively, yes. We will be able to fill our casino with the most selective customers available in the market, I am sure of that. And we will have a demonstration of that shortly this summer. But let's not think that all VIP players have disappeared because that is simply not the way it works. They have been lessened in number, but there's still a lot of them around.
Harry Curtis:
But, Steve, where I was going with this is that we have seen in the last 12 months two casinos open, visitation has not increased. And what I am really interested in is how you plan on reaching deeper into China to increase your odds of having 100% occupancy more times than not. Are you going to be expanding the number of marketing offices, just how are you going to do it?
Steve Wynn:
Well, we are not allowed to promote with our offices in China. We can advertise very limited ways about rooms. But they are very, very careful about that. And I am not sure that a place like Wynn Palace lends itself to mass marketing techniques. Places like the kind we operate, 99% of the marketing is word-of-mouth. The people that would come and stay in Macau, as large as that country is, the percentage of the population that comes to Macau is relatively small compared to the total size of the country. And that group that comes to Macau, they know everything about every hotel. They go to the one they can afford or they go to the one they think is best depending on their income status. So what happens is within 60 or 90 days of when Wynn Palace opens up an enormous percentage of that market will -- the people who attend that market will know all about it. And word-of-mouth will take place the first 12 months that place is open and it will establish itself as Wynn in the Peninsula did as the nicest place to stay. And we never advertised at the Peninsula, in the first Wynn Macau, nor did we advertise in Encore. And we filled those 1,000 rooms and we could have filled 2,000 of them. And we got 1,700 new rooms. And I'm not sure what we would gain if we could advertise in every place. But you can be sure that any wealthy guy that is in Beijing, Shanghai, Fuji and Guangzhou or Dalian, whoever goes to Macau, they know all about us already. That is one of the good things about the gaming type of visitor, they are very, very -- everybody knew about Caesars Palace and Bellagio and Mirage within a few months of when they opened. And so commercial advertising and traditional marketing isn't quite as important when you open up really grand destination hotels. Everybody writes about them and talks about them. So that is not actually one of the problems that I am trying to solve at the moment.
Harry Curtis:
All right, just as one housekeeping item and then I will be done. Can you give us some estimated date on when you think that Everett might open?
Steve Wynn:
Yes. We start in April and May as we expected to do. What are we thinking, about 28 months?
Matt Maddox:
30.
Steve Wynn:
30 months. 30 months from April.
Harry Curtis:
Okay, perfect. Thanks a lot.
Steve Wynn:
So that is April ‘16, April ‘17, April ‘18, late fall ’18, before ‘19.
Harry Curtis:
All right, thanks very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi, good afternoon. Thank you. So, Steve, last quarter you expressed your frustration with planning for an opening at Wynn Palace without knowing how many tables you have and so forth. If I may use the word Zen, you sound more Zen about things today. Just wondering if something has changed now, maybe you have more information regarding the size of the casino, maybe we have run scenario analysis that made you more comfortable. If just you could touch on that.
Steve Wynn:
I am more comfortable. Zen was a good word. I am more comfortable. I am feeling good about it. I am convinced that the government of Macau is doing everything in their power to make sure that the citizens of Macau and the employees who are citizens are protected and safe to the extent that they are able to contribute to that process. So that is to say the government of Macau is on the side of the development of Macau and the healthy continuation of the industry. And I think all of us have managed to work our way through some of the complexities and ramifications of that process. And so I am – I have spent a lot of time there in the last few months and I am feeling better about it.
Felicia Hendrix:
Have they given you some kind of comfort level with the number of tables that you would get or is it more of a general comfort?
Steve Wynn:
Well, we don't have a specific allocation of tables. I have a general confidence that the government wants the operators to be successful and they want these new hotels to take their place as very vibrant successful destination, multi-faceted, diverse tourist attractions that they are in fact designed to be. I am confident that the government wants these places to get off on the right foot. And I think that the government will do what they have to do to see that that happens. And that is the basis of my confidence. I have confidence in the government's ability to take care of the problems that are associated with growth in the market. I think that is probably the best way to express it.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay, that is very fair. And if I may, I have a – my second question is a bigger picture question. And, Steve, when you add most of your peers talk about Macau and its future, everyone is optimistic about the future growth of Macau. Last quarter you said that your long-term confidence was strong and you said it again on this call. And I am just wondering, given where we stand now or in the midst of a market transition from VIP to mass, there is uncertainty, we talked about some government policies. You are feeling more comfortable now, but there are government policies that have inhibited growth. Just wondering, can you discuss what drives that longer-term optimism? And what do you think the inflection point is? Is it a period of time? Is it an event? Is it a political change? What is driving that optimism longer-term?
Steve Wynn:
That's a very intelligent question. Good for you. It is just the size of the country, the priority that the central government has put on the success of both SARs, both AT special administrative regions, both Hong Kong and Macau. The dynamism of that country is overwhelming. And remember that the Communist Party is a meritocracy in China. And although one leader may be a bit more conservative than his predecessor or a bit more liberal, generally speaking they want a successful life for the citizens of China and for the people in Hong Kong and Macau. The personalities of those cities are highly developed and not under discussion anymore. Macau is the destination resort place along with Henson Island. And Hong Kong is a financial center. There is no argument in the higher echelons of government of Peoples Republic of China on what role those cities play in the overall scheme of things in China. And so, consistent with what I said a moment ago that the government seeks to make the country successful, I am positive that they will. That doesn't mean that in the short term the enormity of problems they face is directly proportional to the enormity of the country. It’s four times the size of the United States. And imagine the problems we have and the complexity that our government faces with 350 million or 330 million people. How would you like to add 1 billion to that without the kind of infrastructure we have got. I mean managing China is a daunting task and they got a smart people doing it. And where they’ve come, you draw your confidence in the future from a careful study of the past. Starting with Deng Xiaoping in 1979 when he said if it is a black cat or a white cat, it doesn't make any difference to me, as long as it catches mice it is a good cat. The government of Macau of China has been empirical and pragmatic and has brought hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, a feat unequaled in the history of civilization in any country. Obviously somebody is doing something wrong -- doing something right, rather. They are tapping into the latent energy of that population. Why would we consider that that would not continue? And when it comes to recreation, Macau is the place of choice. That big picture kind of common sense based upon history is the basis that is -- so when you ask where is inflexion point, I don't know that. But when you ask me why do I think the long-term prospects in Macau are incredibly positive, that’s my answer. I love being part of the Chinese scene as a businessman. That doesn't mean that there aren't short-term discomfort and adjustments. But hell, what kind of adjustments do we have to make in the United States considering what’s going on? It is just as tricky here as it is there. Did I help you with that answer? You made an intelligent question; I don't know if I gave an intelligent answer.
Felicia Hendrix:
No, that was very helpful, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Operator:
Our next question is from David Katz with Telsey Advisory Group.
David Katz:
This may be considered as a follow-up on Harry's question, but I think there is probably little argument about the quality of buildings that you develop and the execution that you've demonstrated over the years. But as we look at the Macau market -- and I hate to be too short-term about it, but looking at this year and perhaps next, there are, in addition to fewer VIP junkets as you describe, and still a lot of patrons but fewer of them, there are also a number of other properties and hotels competing for them. And if I can just ask what I don’t know other than doing what you always do, what differences to your strategies are you contemplating, in whatever terms you’re comfortable sharing them to deal with that elevated competition in what can only be described as a compressed demand environment at the moment?
Steve Wynn:
Well said, compressed demand. And you are spot on. If I had some new technique or marketing device up my sleeve --.
David Katz:
You shouldn't tell us.
Steve Wynn:
I shouldn't tell you. But if I don't have one I think it is only honest to tell you that I don't. But I have an answer, however satisfying or unsatisfying it may be. If you set out to take a resort hotel to another level, and when you say another level, superior level. And you sort by so doing you would give yourself a competitive advantage almost as if you had a trick up your sleeve. Then I will tell you what you would have to do to get to that point. And if we have got a trick up our sleeve here it is and I'm going to confess. The way you make a hotel go to another level is you start with every single minute element of it. And as you construct the plan for the building and the design and the human resource engineering you revisit every single assumption once again from day one using all of your experience and asking how could we make each individual component better. And if you did that from the bottom up starting with the back of the house, the doorway, the lighting, the hallway width, the training of the employees, the compensation of the employees, the way you cook their food, the way you clean the floor -- everything. What it’s like when you’re laying in the bed, what do you see when you’re in this room or that room type. If you had the patience and the experience to take that journey, which would take you at least two years before you could bid the building, then you would have traveled our path in the creation of Wynn Palace. And that is what we did, that is how we are doing it and if we are right it will work and if not boo-boo. Does that answer your question?
David Katz:
Very well. Good luck. Thank you very much.
Steve Wynn:
We're going to do what we have always done. We are going to keep trying to make it better in every way. And that, look, the customers aren't going to change. There are people who come to Las Vegas and Macau to live big and have fun. And whoever gives them that product consistently and fully wins the race to the top, I guess is the way to put it, or ends up in first position. Now that doesn't mean that we are going to be bigger than anybody else, it will mean that our hotel will be successful. And we will have a proper return on its investment and that sort of thing. And we will have a loyal and growing clientele. Now we took the long way home at the Peninsula, we weren't the first to open in Macau; we just made the most money when we built the place downtown and that is Wynn Macau now. So I don't see any reason to change our strategy. It is not broke. We don't need to fix it. And in the hospitality business, whether you are in Boston, Macau, Las Vegas or anywhere else, the rules aren't going to change. We know who our customers are, we know what they want. And we're going to try and figure out a better way to give it to them. That’s my ace in the hole. That is my secret.
David Katz:
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Steve Wynn:
Which I just blabbed out, so now everybody knows.
David Katz:
Thank you very much.
Steve Wynn:
Funny thing is they haven't copied it in the past.
Operator:
Your next question comes from Adam Trivison with Gabelli & Company.
Adam Trivison:
With reference to Macau, can you tell us how you are thinking about the positioning of the Peninsula property once Wynn Palace is up and running and more traffic shifts to Cotai?
Steve Wynn:
We are going to run it exactly the way we are now. There is a market for downtown or the Peninsula that seems to have a personality and life of its own. We were examining that when I was in China a week ago. We were looking at what were the changes in some of our competitors once they opened up in Macau -- in Cotai. Specifically we were looking at the Galaxy people. They have that place right next door to us. And it’s interesting, there is a clientele downtown -- down in the Peninsula and there's a clientele at Cotai. The Cotai clientele is different, it is more mass oriented. Have you noticed? You know with the people coming across the border. Ian, Gamal, what do you think the difference is between downtown and Cotai? And what do you think is going to happen in -- you envision any changes in the Peninsula when Gamal opens the Palace?
Ian Coughlan:
Every new joint that’s opened in Cotai has been allegedly the death of downtown and it hasn't happened. So we continue to drive down here. We have history, the history of Macau, old Macau, we’ve got the Lisboa, the Grand Lisboa which is somewhere where everybody visits when they come to Macau. The geography is very different and the scale of the resort is completely different. We run the best joint and it’s ten years old. You continue to reinvest in the property. It looks like it is brand-new and we have got a very strong loyal customer base and it is going to complement Wynn Palace.
Adam Trivison:
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Steve Wynn:
Only an Irishman would call a $1.5 billion hotel a joint. See how relaxed everybody is in this Company?
Ian Coughlan:
I learned that from you.
Steve Wynn:
I know.
Operator:
Our next question comes from – I’m sorry, we did have another question in queue and they have removed themselves from queue and we have no other questions at this time.
Steve Wynn :
Thank you. Everybody else, talk to you next time. See you.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Steve Cootey - Chief Financial Officer Steve Wynn - Chairman and CEO Matt Maddox - President Gamal Aziz - President, Wynn Macau, Limited Ian Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A. Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC
Analysts:
Joe Greff - JP Morgan Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Harry Curtis - Nomura Mark Savino - Morgan Stanley Kenneth Fong - Credit Suisse
Operator:
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today for the Third Quarter 2015 Earnings Call. Throughout the presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. Afterwards, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] It’s now my pleasure to hand our program over to Steve Cootey, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you, and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from both our Las Vegas and Macau properties. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I’ll turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
I think the numbers speak for themselves; general comment covering both Las Vegas and Macau is this. We don’t see any major change or new development in Macau concerning our existing operations other than all of the comments we’ve made in the past about the confusion, the ambiguity about what we face in terms of tables in the upcoming months as we we’re about 170 days before the opening of the Palace which is the most significant event in the company’s near future. And based upon what’s happened to Galaxy and what we expect to happen at the Studio City which is just today on how many tables they are going to have in the last two days, few weeks before they are open. The confusion and the rather mystical policies that are governing the assignment of equipment in these new hotels which are tremendous diversifications away from pure gaming into all other forms of non-gaming, the confusion about the tables and the government’s position in this regard has made it very difficult to plan for employees and other aspects of the facility. I mentioned this early in the conversation because it’s become a major issue in Macau as to the impact of government policy on and planning for employment, promotions, hiring and compensation. None of us are really clear on what our environment is going to be like going forward. And it makes planning and adjusting almost a mystical process. And this is the I think probably the major topic of conversation in executive conference rooms as people try and resolve their planning on human resources in the Macau market. Our construction of our hotel now is on schedule which is scheduled for March 25th opening. And the results of the last quarter were consistent with the things we’ve seen in previous quarters and that is almost approximately half a business of VIP has gone and maybe shrinking has caused us to review our credit policies and our attitudes towards junket operators and some of them have gone out of business. And I think others will indeed go out of business which means you have to focus very intensely on the policies that you employ with regard to the credit that the junket people in terms of the chips that are advanced to them. Our mass business is sort of flat and I think that’s a general description of it. And that explains the earnings in Macau. Now in Las Vegas, we are in this market, the principal beneficiary of international business and we have been since we opened in 2005. So, if a segment of the international market is impacted for extraneous reasons or external reasons like a change in government policy or whatever in China, then we would be the principal victims or we would suffer the most and that’s exactly what happened. Any change in our earnings in Las Vegas is strictly a reflection of a drop in Asian baccarat business. The rest of the segments in our Las Vegas business are pretty good. Room revenue and stuff like that is healthy. Our convention business is healthy; our food and beverage business is healthy. And we’re very satisfied with Las Vegas. And if anything, the problems in China are causing us to refocus our energies here in America even more intensely. We’re happy that we’re moving forward in Massachusetts, in spite of the friction created by the mayor and the administration in Boston which for some reason is unwilling to except the decision of the Casino Control Commission gracefully and keeps trying to use various tactics to say that we are in Boston not in Everett. It may sound laughable at this point and in a perverse way it is a comedy but it did cause us delays but happily they’re pretty much behind us now. And we’re underway with remediation and we’re looking for to groundbreaking in a few months. And the Massachusetts project which we think is a very exciting thing will be on its way and hopefully open in 2018. I’ll leave the rest of any general remarks before we take questions to Matt or Ian or Gamal or Steve or Maurice anybody on the call who would like to expand or alter what I’ve just said. And there are people on this call that have a tighter feeling. I’ve been very much involved with design in the last several months. So if any of the operating executives want to close in on this, please feel free to do so. Gamal, do you have anything to add? Ian? Either one?
Gamal Aziz:
Steve, you have articulated it very well. It’s still a guessing game when it comes to the number of tables and the number of employees, the quotas for the employees. And there is a reluctance, if there are any good news which have been rumor, they’re just that and there is a reluctance to actually come out and indicate to the companies that are working here that they are and deliberately easing some of the restrictions they have been placing on us. So, we’re hoping for the best and we hope will be treated fairly. But as you said, the property is looking great and our opening date is March 25th and we’re very hopeful.
Steve Wynn:
The question is will we -- will our property be overwhelming enough to kick that market into a different place? It’s hard to say. I have no idea how many tables we’re going to have. The notion that a person who spent $2.5 billion, I’m talking about Melco now, would not know how many tables are going to have three weeks before they open is preposterous. It’s worthy of comment. And how in the world do we underwrite the job security of the local workforce in Macau, keep the promise of promotions and better opportunity under these circumstances? I’m at a loss to answer that question. And as we go forward in the planning of Wynn Palace, we are hopeful that we’ll be able to press the issue and get stronger, more clarity -- stronger and much more clarity from the leadership of the local government.
Steve Cootey:
I think we should open it up for questions.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs.
Unidentified Analyst:
Hi, this is actually Rebecca Stone [ph] from Steven Kent’s team on for Steve. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about Las Vegas. I did notice that food and beverage is doing well. You spoke Steve to some of these things doing better to maybe offset some of the lack of international businesses. Is this something that you would be looking to adjust further in Las Vegas to appeal to more of these types of customers? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, ma’am. We’ve done a whole bunch of things task. We always adjust. I mean we’re professionals I would describe this as such. And we run the business in uptimes and downtimes and we adjust to the situations. And we made a whole bunch of changes in the casino, both physically and procedurally, we’ve even fooled [ph] with the rules of the game, spent 50 years since Las Vegas increased the price of gaming; we’re way overdo considering the cost of running games and payroll. We’ve adjusted our yield rate management approach, Maurice Wooden is here and he is very good at that in the whole American operation. We’ve made a host of adjustments. We were off in one month by -- from a 100 million buck [ph] or out of 45 million we’re off 55 million buck up, it was the same amount of money because of all the adjustments we made. And they go across the board throughout the hotel. And the way we price the hotel, restaurants, and entertainment, and gaming, we don’t sit by and allow ourselves become victims of anything, of any aspect of our operation over which we have any control. So, my long-term view of our operations in America and in China is still positive. It’s the short-term that’s bouldering and it’s blithering enough to complain about it. But as far as adjusting here in China, it’s a constant process. I was in China last week and I kept my people up until 2 in the morning on the subject of VIP. And then we reconvened at 8 am again and went for another six hours. I think altogether, we spent 15 hours, the most intense kind of a consultation with every smart person we had that dealt with these subjects. So adjusting is what we do. And I mean the description of those -- detail description of those adjustments could go on for half hour. But know that we are doing it and we are doing it successfully.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Joe Greff with JP Morgan.
Joe Greff:
Earlier this month, it is reported in the local Macau media that the Director delays to Macau and mainland China that the central government is going to help support Macau’s economy. And these comments followed similar statements from Macau’s Chief Executive last month. I think no real specifics were given. So my question to you Steve is this
Steve Wynn:
Who knows; I mean these facilities are enormously diversified non-gaming buildings but they depend on their survival; their payroll. Their operational viability depends on the gaming equipment that was always part of the whole construct. Here in America, we would never have a Las Vegas of the diversity we’ve had, if the city had told us how many tables we could spread. The table cap is the single most counterintuitive and irrational decision that was ever made. Here we are spending billions of dollars creating non-gaming facilities and then arbitrarily so much as well you should only have this many tables. No jurisdiction ever has imposed such -- that kind of logic on us. And what it’s done is turned our human resource planning inside out and upside down. And you could tell by the tone of my voice, the extent of my frustration on this point; my frustration on behalf of our colleagues that Melco, who made commitments for 400 tables. Why on earth they have to deal with half as many is beyond my -- anything that I can understand in a 45 years of experience I’ve had. It isn’t good for Macau; it’s not good for the citizens of Macau; it’s not good for the tens of thousands of employees of Macau who are looking forward to promotions and raises and all kinds of benefits that accrue because of the viability of these resorts. We build tens of thousands of rooms and restaurants and attractions, but we said you’re not allowed to gamble because you can’t have the tables, but that’s one of the reasons they come to Macau. If you wanted to undermine and scuttle the viability of that industry, you put in table caps. And you could tell I am a tremendous critic of that decision because I don’t understand it in terms of anything in my 45 years of experience that explains it. And to see the predicament the local people find themselves in because they made covenant, agreements, is dazzling to me. And I’ve complaint to the government about this and tried to understand what the rationale was for this thinking. And I’ve never gotten a reasonable answer. And hopefully, hopefully the desire that you mentioned, statements by the central government or by the local government to support this industry and mainly support the people that work in that industry that are the whole interior, all of the young people and the families of Macau that have become part of the hospitality industry, a huge amount of them are people that are related directly or indirectly to casinos. And what we’re getting now is unemployment. I mean the junket operators at the beginning of it because they employed all kinds of people from Macau, but forgetting the junket operators, what about the rank and file dealers in the mass casino, cater to the tourist, what happens to their jobs, what happens to their promotions? I don’t know whether the local government’s been intimidated by the unions because or something but the unions are going to end up acting up about this subject before it’s over and we as operators going to have to stand there on the side lines bewilders at the position that the industry finds itself in. In my 45 years of experience, I’ve never seen anything like this before. And hopefully, hopefully, the leadership of the community will intervene and correct this aberration that threatens the employment security of the citizens of Macau and thereby also relieving the predicaments that people like the Lloyd family, Galaxy experienced with the billions of dollars they spent and Lawrence Ho and Jamie Packer’s company Melco. But these are problems that when you say that there has been the government has made general statements about supporting us or supporting the people of Macau, I think it’s time for them to put their actions where the rhetoric is but the rhetoric won’t solve the problem.
Joe Greff:
And then I have a second question. When do you start to migrate employees from your current Macau operation to Cotai, how many employees you see shifting in this quarter, how many in the 1Q and I guess overall how much of fixed OpEx shifting is there going from the Peninsula to Cotai? And that’s all for me. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Ian and Gamal, you deal with it.
Gamal Aziz:
We have approximately 2,000 people; that all depends on people that want to transfer from Wynn Macau to Wynn Palace. But quite honestly, we’ll be able to tell more, once we know how many tables we’re going to have. As we said earlier, the tremendous amount of ambiguity and there is no clarity as to how many and the timing is going to be about the first quarter, so we can get them acclimated to the new property. But we don’t have an exact number; we have a range that we know the number of employees that have requested a transfer, which would be upstanding for Wynn Palace to get that culture transferred but the exact number we’ll know as soon as we know how many tables we’ll get at Wynn Palace.
Steve Wynn:
Gamal, I want to interrupt you for a minute. I mentioned earlier that the people at Studio City found out a few weeks before opening what the story is about their tables. Now, Macau is proud of the five-star status, the legitimate five-star status of Wynn Macau. It was hard to train people to get to that level of service but it’s been a source of pride for the community and for the employees themselves. We cannot train people and maintain service levels in the non-casino and casino areas, when we don’t have the time to train our people. So the notion of finding out that how many tables you’re going to get three weeks before you’re opening is outrageous and ridiculous. Ridiculous is the word for it. We’ve never operated a business this way. We train people. That’s how we give them a future, by training them. That contributes to their promotions, their pride and to the guest experience. And at the end of the day, guest experience is the only controlling factor in the survival of the hospitality industry. Go ahead, Ian. The question that they wanted to deal with this how much of the expense load you are carrying at Wynn on the Peninsula that would be relieved as people that we’re carrying on your payroll. We are heavy in our payroll and on the Peninsula hotel deliberately as part of our training routine to maintain the high level of service that Wynn enjoys and our reputation in Macau. So, Ian, what I think his question is how much -- how far will your expense load drop if you were to get the tables you were supposed to get, which was 500, when we started the building, confirmed by the government.
Ian Coughlan:
Based on current business trends, the significant opportunity to migrate people to Wynn Palace trained highly qualified people and not necessarily need to back for those people at Wynn Macau until business levels pick back up in the city. So, for the immediate outlook, there is a significant opportunity to transfer people over. And it would be a significant savings on payroll for Wynn Macau without any fall off from service quality.
Steve Wynn:
Understanding -- to complete that answer, that the people that we transfer that we don’t have to replace in no way makes up the entire workforce, at paths [ph] there is tremendous amount of additional hiring that has to take place in order for that enterprise to exist. Is that answer to your question?
Joe Greff:
Yes, it does. Thank you, Steve. Thanks, everybody.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
I have two questions. For starters, maybe Gamal or Ian if you guys could comment a little bit on what you’re seeing within the mass business today. Obviously the slots a bit weaker but the mass table seem to have held up fairly well from a drop perspective on a sequential basis. So the question is, are you guys starting to see any stability or you feel any comfort in at least that portion of the Macau business? And then a bigger picture question maybe for Steve, Steve as you think about some of the government’s conversation and some of maybe the comments that have been made over time about diversifying the economy of Macau. In Europe in longer term, do you get the sense that Macau has the potential to really transform itself away from being a predominantly gaming market much in the way that Las Vegas did over a number of years?
Steve Wynn:
I’ll take my part first. Absolutely Las Vegas and Macau rather has transformed itself, not how, [ph] or can, or will, it has been transformed by the projects that have been built in direct response to the leadership and the suggestions made by the local government, everything from promotions to the creation of facilities, exactly that has already taken place. But understand that the reason that these extraordinary non-gaming attractions exist is because the damn casino is the cash register. That’s what drives Las Vegas, 40 odd percent, my hotels, the ones that you guys know that we’ve built with this organization in the past, none of them have ever had even half of the revenue be gaming; over half was non-gaming, but none of them could have been built or would exist today if anybody had given us a table cap, because the people would stay in the rooms, want to go downstairs and play sometimes besides eating, and entertaining, and shopping, and going to the spa, they want to play or they wouldn’t come to Macau. So, we support these extravagant non-gaming diversifications with the casino. That’s the truth of it; that’s the irrevocable, undeniable, inexorable truth of it. The gaming allows the non-gaming to flourish and that’s the lesson we’re trying to get to penetrate the leadership of Macau that the very thing they want requires that they let us run our business based upon our experience, our long experience everywhere else. And that’s where the heart of the frustration is that somehow we haven’t been able to get that truth really accepted. And I am hopeful that before we have demonstrations or real angst or I had an employee approach me when I was in Macau and say Mr. Wynn, is the government angry at the union and trying to cut back on gaming employees? I said, well, I don’t have any reason to think that. But that’s the kind of stuff that’s going around in the staff dining room. This confusion is not isolated to management; it’s now spread to the employees, very unhealthy situation, both socially and politically. And when I am asked questions like that I don’t have a clear answer. And I want to get away from this kind of thing before it gets out of hand. Now, Ian, you can answer the rest of it, the mass gaming. I am in a position to answer that question. Mass table revenue is flat as against a year ago, not a year ago, a quarter ago sequentially.
Ian Coughlan:
It is flat but we’ve always had a considerable fall off year-over-year in the very high end of mass which is very similar to the Wynn VIP, so those players have that operators are returning less. So, we’ve actually driven more business in the mid-tier. And as we’ve taken tables back from the junket operators, we have an additional 23 tables in mass over the same time last year. We’ve managed to drive more business in mid-mass.
Carlo Santarelli:
Ian, I appreciate that.
Ian Coughlan:
Stabilization.
Carlo Santarelli:
That’s great and just a follow-up on that, Ian. So, you are in a sense I guess what you’re saying is some of the VIP players that trickle down into the high end mass, are you not seeing as much of them and hence you’re officially in different form -- than you otherwise would have historically?
Ian Coughlan:
Yes, correct. And we’re allowed to do that because we’ve got more tables that we migrated to mass. And right now we’re giving approximately 58% of our room inventory to mass that stable game, the slots. So what we’ve been losing out of the junkets, we’ve been trying to drive into mass.
Steve Wynn:
All the more reason why you need more mass tables, so that people can use themselves. That plays in when you have lower level of gaming, amusement gaming, you need more tables to deal to those people. That’s the only hope that you have for compensating the loss of VIP. Now at Wynn, we were able to transfer as he just said, a couple of dozen tables. But in Cotai with these big hotels and their massive footage that’s dedicated to non-casino, you need tables to do that. You can’t do it with 150 or 250 tables; you need 400 or 500 tables to do it effectively and to support the workforce, otherwise the workforce gets cut back. And you have layoffs and all these things that have never happened in my career in 45 years; I’ve never had layoff. I think we once dropped a 100 people in this company, 45 years; we don’t do layoffs. People come to work for us; they get job security. I’ve never broken a promise about job security to my employees in my entire career. And I don’t like facing that possibility one bit.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Robin Farley with UBS. Robin, your line is open.
Steve Wynn:
Robin, are you there? We missed you.
Operator:
Okay. Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Steve, you mentioned little bit earlier in the call here, just that you had done a bit of deep dive with your staff in Macau regarding the VIP business. And one of the other headlines that sort of kind of did the rounds in September was around the Dore junket business that was operating out of Wynn Macau and some other casinos as well. I was curious just for the team’s view on whether or not you saw those issues were fairly isolated and already kind of dealt with or if there’s going to be any continued fallout from those or other similar types of issues going forward?
Steve Wynn:
Good question. It didn’t have anything to do with us. It had to do with one of their people in their financing syndicate. The way these guys operate is that they get people to invest almost like a mutual fund or a hedge fund and then they give these people a return each month on the financial support that they get from these groups of lenders. And apparently one of the employees who was interfacing with the lenders absconded with their money. It had nothing to do with us. And we went to 100% cash with Dore. They had all the liquidity they needed right in the cage. And when we found out about it, we terminated any extension for as much as 1 RMB or HK$ 1 to Dore and they were able to cover it because they had the liquidity that allowed them to do it. Whether someone else is going -- that’s going to be in other deep allocation or embezzlement is hard to predict. Criminals tend to be surreptitious until becomes the light. But I think all the junket operators took that as a signal to tightening up on their internal controls from an untold. So, I don’t suspect that that will happen in the manner that it happened at Dore again. But the overall viability of the junkets themselves depends upon the liquidity and the wealth and the retained earnings that they have kept. We don’t see their numbers. And so we’re very conservative in how we deal with them. We don’t know their retained earnings. Some of them have gone public but the information that you study under those circumstance is at best described by the word murky. So, we’re left to manage our end of this transaction which is to shorten the strength and the length of time that we give these people that how many non-redeemable shifts we give them. And the amount of outstanding unredeemed chips is dropped dramatically, almost by half, which reflects the level of business almost identically. That’s what as deeper answer I can give you; is this satisfactory?
Shaun Kelley:
It’s great. Thank you very much. And then my other question, I think you are really clear about some of your reviews as to how the people and employees are impacted at some of your facilities going forward by some of the policies out there. We’ve heard from some people in the market that potentially the Macau government may also be looking to at potential restrictions around the blue card policy, which I think is some of the immigrant labor that they allow into the market. I was curious that that was at all impacting your view either towards staffing levels in Cotai or if those really just isolated to more of the table counts and your ability to plan ahead?
Steve Wynn:
At the present time unemployment in Macau is almost zero. The government wanted us to build the highly diversified non-gaming structures; we went and did it for 10 billion or more. And if you count all of us, the largest being us at 4 billion. How in the hell can you run those places without employees. I mean what are we supposed to do, shutdown a floor, close the restaurant, curtail the various things that they told us that they wanted to see happen without employees, it’s all ludicrous that it defies rational conversation. Some of these places are going to close locally, creating unemployment, we can absorb them I think in the industry but still the extent of the new operations are so comprehensive that in order to operate them appropriately, you still need more people to work. And the spectacle of these buildings being unattended is beyond imagination and will have dire consequences in the community on a couple of levels; the first level will be that it will negatively impact the job security of the local Macau citizens and undoubtedly result in rather severe complaining. What form that will take, I am not sure. The second thing is that the hospitality profile of the city will be severely compromised and that will take years to recover, years. You only get one chance to make a good impression and if you bogie that impression, if you blow it, it’s a long time to fix it and maybe never. What is important is that the Macau market as is viewed by the world, never loses its viability because the day that it loses its viability, it will lose its long-term longevity and the entire thing gets really damaged severely. And that will impact the community of Macau in a very negative way. And that’s one of the things that concerns me a lot because employee attitudes. Everybody in the world including all of a sudden it’s call today, it has been established that our present state of mind, our happiness, our sense of security is fundamentally a function of how we view tomorrow or the future. You tell someone this feeling poorly, suffering from ailment or some discomfort that they are going to be better in three days and they feel better today. You’ll tell someone who is feeling great today that they are going to be awfully sick next week and they get depressed today. So the attitude of the employees, their sense of security, safety, their notion of a positive future for themselves and their families is a critical management responsibility. Now to a certain extent, we control that within the walls of our buildings. But every once in a while depending on public policy, we lose control of that because of factors that are outside of our control. And my feeling is that Macau at the moment is on the edge of that moment which should be avoided at all cost.
Operator:
And our next question comes from Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Hi Steve and thank you for being refreshingly frank here. I wanted to just go back to the meeting that you had with your employees on the VIP topic. What I am trying to get a better sense of is, was there any conclusion that you all came to about what the intent of the policy changes related to the junkets really has been on the part of Beijing?
Steve Wynn:
Well, that’s a good question. And from what we understand, reading the South China Morning Post and other source of information available to us, President Xi discovered that the people of China felt that government officials were corrupt and feathering their own nest. And he thought that that was very malignant for the health of his party and the future of his country and made a decision to correct that and have a campaign against corruption. And considering the amount of people if you believe the newspapers that have been charged with misconduct of one degree or another, President Xi did the right thing for the right reasons. And because of the way China, mainland China works, every businessman in that country dealt in one way or another with a government official because the government controls so many aspects of public policy and business interface. So businessmen who had nothing to hide as well as those who might have had something to hide all went into the fox holes or into a defensive posture because they didn’t know if the next shoe was going to drop or what the next thing was going to happen. And it is caused across the board, a contraction of all VIP consumer spending at the higher level, which includes Macau. And that explains the problem that the junket operators are having plus the restriction on the credit cards and things like that. So, in one respect, the junket operators faced the problem that was part of an intelligent central government policy, no argument about that. Corruption is a bad thing and President Xi did the right thing just as I would in my company if I thought there was corruption to that extent. Fernando Chui, the Head of the Government of Macau or President Xi Jinping or a president of a public company or a private company for that matter, it is bad business to have corruption and it should be stopped because it’s unhealthy and goes to the root of the viability of any organization or institution. So, there is something that in our meetings we acknowledged and we accept as inconvenient perhaps in terms of junket operators but not necessarily a bad thing, so we adjust to it. And that was the way we dealt with that in our conversations. Alternatively, the reason those conversations have 15 or 16 hours, is because we’re juggling the reassessment of our facilities and adjustments to our facilities to cater to the new reality that we face which incidentally is much more like Las Vegas than what Macau was in the past. And that’s fine with me; I’ve no argument with it. But in the process of adjusting, how do we run our facility under the new reality? And we can do that. But we need tables in the casino to support the restaurants and the convention, the meeting space and the entertainment of the $4 billion. The casino represents perhaps $400 million of it. The other $3.6 billion went into other things that weren’t part of the old way of looking at things. So, on one hand we understand when on with the campaign against corruption and we have no issue with that or the thinking that went into it. What we have an issue with is the leadership that we need to have in the government to help us make the transition to the new reality.
Harry Curtis:
Can I ask just a quick follow-up on your comments? You mentioned restriction on credit cards, I’m guessing it’s on the UnionPay cards.
Steve Wynn:
Yes.
Harry Curtis:
Can you give us a sense of has that been implemented and if it hasn’t, any expectations on how it might change customer behavior?
Steve Wynn:
We weren’t in the UnionPay card business to the extent of other people. So, didn’t mean that much to us.
Steve Cootey:
And Harry, you should just look at the mass revenues and see how they’re doing. I don’t -- I think that enforcing the rules around UnionPay are overplayed in the media.
Steve Wynn:
Way overplayed.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Mark Savino:
This is Mark Savino on for Thomas. Just a quick question back on Vegas, wondering if you could maybe give just a bit more detail as to what you’re actually seeing in the high end baccarat business, maybe you could get parse out visitation versus spend for visit trends among those high end players? And then really, do you guys have any senses to how close you might be to a bottom there? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Maurice, do you want to deal with that?
Maurice Wooden:
We’re continuing to see year-over-year where you have a reduction in that high-end play on the international side. And again, it’s like Steve said, we’re adjusting to adhere to make sure that we look at all other areas to make sure that recovering whatever that loss might be. We really don’t understand what that bottom might be. I mean we certainly have still a good flow of international business but it wasn’t like 2014 or 2013.
Steve Cootey:
And we’re mainly talking on the gaming side, it’s not just Asia, Latin America with everything is going on there in Brazil and other places, clearly that’s done as well. So, our high end business was down by about half from revenue side compared to this time last year.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Kenneth Fong with Credit Suisse.
Kenneth Fong:
As a local analyst, I can share your frustration in this operational uncertain and ambiguity of people allocation as well. So on third quarter, am I fair to say that direct VIP actually hold low that actually hurt the margin, so what is approximately EBITDA impact is? And the second question is this operational uncertainty on table allocation; will it affect the decision in a development of Wynn Diamond?
Matt Maddox:
I’ll take the first one. It’s Matt. So, as you see that table mass was up but that EBITDA increase was offset by -- you’re exactly right, direct VIP was down and our slots were down. So, those two offset the increase in table mass. The whole percentage was normal; in direct VIP, it was the volumes.
Steve Wynn:
AT Wynn Diamond, do you want about…
Kenneth Fong:
Yes, at Wynn Diamond, what is the uncertainty of table allocation?
Steve Wynn:
The government told us that we could continue to develop our planned concessions along as was phase two which is as always been. And we have designed a remarkable phase two. But until we understand about Wynn Palace, it’s our ability to look into the future and plan financially is again compromised at the moment. My long-term confidence in Macau is still strong. I love the position we’re in terms of being part of that community. The issue it has to do is short-term adjustments not long-term confidence. At the end of the day, I am in the same position as this Head of the Macau government and for that matter President Xi Jinping. My job is to create a stable environment in terms of human resources, job security and a better future for people. Isn’t that after all what governments are doing or hopefully doing? And I say at the 11th hour the government does the right thing and supports the health of it citizens as businessmen will support the health of their employees. Because the ultimate truth is that the only thing that matters is the happiness of the people whether they are employees or citizens of a community. And they are the ones that touch the public because only people make people happy, only people make happy communities, only people make successful companies. And the job leaders are to do everything and anything in their power to create a happy and positive outlook to the future for their constituencies. And I strongly believe that when the dust settles, leaders of companies and governments do the right thing. And that’s the basis from my long-term confidence in the market and my long-term confidence in the leadership of the government. We all come to the same conclusion when we’ve had enough time to see. Hopefully we come to the right conclusion before we avoid catastrophic, unpleasant or disruptive alternatives. We anticipate certain results and don’t let them occur. So whether you’re a CEO of a company or you’re the head of a government, you have to have a little bit of ability to look around the corner and see what’s coming ahead of you. And if that’s not good, turn away from it, amend your policies, learn from experience and come to a more sound conclusion. That’s what I hope for a businessman and I hope for ourselves and for that matter for the government.
Operator:
Our final question comes from David Katz. [Ph]
Unidentified Analyst:
If we look at the forthcoming new property in Cotai and presume frankly that it will be most desirable in the market as is typical and is an attraction, can you talk about the strategies and way about identifying presumably somewhat of a new customer mix and how you’re thinking about identifying and engaging and targeting that customer mix as the property?
Steve Wynn:
There is no mystery as to who those customers are. They are people from Taiwan, Hong Kong, mainland China who want to live life in an exciting way for a day or two or three on vacations. They want to be served well, stay in lovely hotels, eat in good restaurants, enjoy entertainment and attractions that they can’t get at home, and while they are there play in a casino which is exciting and have fun. Their experience is under the control of the staff that serves them as well as the environment in which this all takes place. That’s the story in Las Vegas, that’s the story in Boston, that’s the story in Macau, it’s the story in Manila, it’s the story in Biloxi, Mississippi; nothing changes nor will it ever be different than that. Those are the truths of the hospitality industry and any of this variations or iterations including Macau or any other city on earth….
Unidentified Analyst:
If I…
Steve Wynn:
We build buildings-- yes, I am sorry. Go ahead.
Unidentified Analyst:
No, I am sorry. I wanted to just maybe reiterate the question in a far more [audio gap] way. Do you expect this market to become more competitive, more aggressively competitive and how do you think about whether or not to engage in, in that?
Steve Wynn:
Well, it’s already competitive; it has been competitive for quite some time. Look at Las Vegas with the dozens of hotels, the thousands of tables, the tens of thousands -- 150,000 rooms, millions, upon million suite of convention, a meeting space, theatres, cabarets, public entertainment, volcanoes that erupt, thousands that dance, pirate ships that sink, trees that come out of the floor, gondolas that go across dancing fountains for a $100 million. All of this is a fight for the audience that’s here, discounts given at the tables, complimentaries. It’s so intensely competitive in Macau and has been for some long time, for a long time that it will continue in the same fashion that it is enjoying now. There will still be a stratification of the public. People who can afford choice and who demand higher levels of service, better food, larger more sumptuous rooms, better meeting facilities, more fascinating entertainment attractions, they will migrate to places that provide that. Other places that deal to the economy end of the market such as Circus Circus or in Las Vegas or other places in Macau, they have their own level of competition. But you know there is Kmart and there is in Louis Vuitton; there is Macy’s and there is Neiman Marcus. They complete -- Neiman Marcus competes with other companies of a similar nature; we do as well. Louis Vuitton can competes with Chanel and Christian Dior and Prada. And we’re at that level. We’re the five-star operator. We offer choices for people that want the best. And when we do that, we to a certain extent give up another part of the market to other people. So, it’s good that a place like Macau or Las Vegas has choice for people. What’s wonderful about Macau and Las Vegas is that if you come to that city, you can go from Wynn to Circus; you can go to a lower end casino to Wynn in Macau and you can dial up whatever it is that suits you at the moment. And that’s the secret to making a great destination city, it’s choice to bigger the menu, to more powerful the destination resort. But I assure you that every level, there is competition. Am I being helpful to you?
Unidentified Analyst:
Yes. I can recall in Las Vegas during the downturn operators would tend to reach down market and promote more and…
Steve Wynn:
And laid off and they lowered their expenses and they laid off thousands and thousands of people, not here because in the business that I’m in, I cannot juggle my service levels; I cannot bounce my step around because the market gets soft. No, no; we have to have a capital structure that allows us to maintain our service levels, to protect the job security of our employees and hopefully at the end of the downturn, we end up with a bigger market share, which is exactly what happened to us. But in order to do that you have to have a strong capital structure. When the government interferes with the viability enterprise, they take that ability for us to protect our employees away from us, a dangerous thing to do from any perspective.
Operator:
Ladies and gentlemen, we have run out of time for our Q&A session today. I want to hand the program back over to Mr. Wynn for any closing remarks.
Steve Wynn:
Matt, Steve Cootey, Ian Coughlan, Mr. Aziz, Mr. Wooden, would you like to add anything?
Steve Cootey:
No.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. Well, I don’t know that this has been the most satisfying quarterly phone call we’ve ever had but at least it’s the most candid and the most honest one that we could possibly give everybody that is interested in our company. And hopefully, it sheds light; it shares real intelligence and insight on the inevitability of anything that interferes with the long-term health of Macau or Las Vegas for that matter. And I’ve done my best to shine a light on that subject. And I thank you all for your attention and we’ll talk and see what happens in 90 days from now. Bye-bye.
Operator:
Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today’s third quarter 2015 earnings call. You may now disconnect your lines and having wonderful afternoon.
Executives:
Stephen Lawrence Cootey - Chief Financial Officer, Treasurer & Senior VP Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Matthew O. Maddox - President Ian Michael Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A., Wynn Resorts Ltd. Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, Wynn Resorts Ltd. Gamal Aziz - President, Wynn Macau, Limited, Wynn Resorts Ltd. Kimmarie Sinatra - Secretary, Executive VP & General Counsel
Analysts:
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities International, Inc. Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc. Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC
Operator:
Good afternoon. My name is Selena, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Second Quarter 2015 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Thank you. I will now turn today's conference call over to Mr. Stephen Cootey. Please go ahead, sir.
Stephen Lawrence Cootey - Chief Financial Officer, Treasurer & Senior VP:
Thank you, and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra and myself here in Las Vegas. Also on the phone are the operational management teams from both our Las Vegas and Macau properties. Before we get started, I just want to remind everyone we will be making forward-looking statements under Safe Harbor Federal Securities law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Wynn.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Good afternoon, everybody. You've seen our numbers. They're sort of, I think, probably no surprise to anybody. Macau continues to be more of a question than a certainty as we head through 2015 and towards our opening on March 25 of Wynn Palace in 2016. Our construction and our staffing is on schedule. We've made some adjustments in the staffing until we have a clearer picture of the game total that will be allocated to us by the government. But in the meantime, we're finishing this building. I would mention that, as I have in the past, that the design of this building and its creation over five years ago was done in anticipation of market conditions perhaps not as critical as they are today, but under the general assumption that the robust and unprecedented growth in the market would not be the kind of growth we'd be experiencing in 2016 and that we would face competition for which we had great respect. Our fellow operators in Macau are intelligent, they're extremely well-financed and they're quick to learn and to accommodate the things that they see in other hotels and to accommodate changes necessitated by their own experience in that market. It's a very, very sharp place. The buildings that are built represent remarkable diversifications into non-gaming attractions. And, of course, that adds to the competitive nature of our situation. We designed the hotel, as I say, in anticipation of just such an environment, perhaps not quite as critical as the one we're facing, but we said we had to be clearly, clearly a superior choice competitively. We enjoy a segment of the market that we wanted to continue to enjoy, the upper premium, the VIP business and the top end of the mass marketing. We enjoy that advantage today and we intended to increase that advantage by the opening of Wynn Palace, such worthy assumptions of its creation, and I'm happy to say that that was the result of the construction and the development. Our staff, headed by Mr. Gamal Aziz and Ian Coughlan and Linda Chen in China, are doing an excellent job in preparing the place to make a good opening and make a good impression on our guests, so that hopefully the Wynn Palace will be everybody's first choice when they go to Cotai. In Las Vegas, we're enjoying a comfortable business, I think is the right word for it. It's not an aggressive growth by any means, but we are enjoying non-casino revenue that is acceptable. Our slot machine and table games are growing with one exception. This should come as no surprise to professionals on this call, and that is that since we were the operator of choice for the international baccarat business, namely from China, that if anything interfered with that business, we would of course experience more of a penalty in that regard than our competitors since we had more of those kinds of people attending our hotel. When that group is diminished we, of course, feel it critically. So our baccarat table business has suffered, mainly because of the absence of a number of Asian players. But business from Latin America is still good, and perhaps that explains why we had clearly the most powerful performance in this quarter of any operator in America. And with that, I think I've sort of summarized whatever I can add to the conversation today, and I'll be glad to take questions along with my colleagues.
Operator:
The first question comes from the line of Joe Greff.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Hello, Joe? I think we lost him.
Operator:
First question comes from Carlo Santarelli.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Hey, good evening, everyone. Steve, just in relation to some of the comments you made around Cotai, what is your level of comfort with the property opening later in the first quarter? And secondly, how many iterations have you guys gone through recently to readjust the casino floor of that property for the new Macau that you currently envision here over the medium-term?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
I think, first of all, I'm comfortable about the March 25 date. The government happily gave us 100% of our last and final request for construction labor, and so we're fully staffed at 7,000 construction workers. So, we're pretty sanguine at the moment, although anything is subject to change. We're sanguine about the March 25 date. But I want to add that when we say March 25, the way this company operates, we always want to have two weeks – 10 days to two weeks of practice where we let all of our employees stay in all of the rooms, order room service, use the telephones, have our computer systems fail, have our elevators have a chance to fail, we go to our backup systems, we use all of our emergency systems, we deal the games to each other. We do everything to anticipate what our guests, when we open to the public, will experience so that if there are any glitches or shortcomings, we experience them, not the public. So, when I say we open on March 25, the hotel will be a campus in February, and if anything interferes with our ability to use March as a campus to practice, then of course I wouldn't hesitate to postpone the opening by a week or two. But, when I said March 25, that anticipates all of the things that are necessary to open a hotel on Wynn standard. Matt, you can talk about adjustments to the floor and the compendium.
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Sure. So, we continue to look at various iterations and the mass market clearly is taking little more of a roll out of Cotai right now than it was previously, 18 months ago, and the way the facility was designed, it's very flexible and functional. So, right now, we have a program in place for both Peninsula and Cotai that we're comfortable with.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Great. Thanks, Matt. And if you wouldn't mind, just one housekeeping item. Could you clarify or quantify the hold adjustment in the period in Las Vegas relative to theoretical? Is that about $9 million, somewhere in that ballpark?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
That's about right. And in Macau, if you notice on the mass market side, you're between $12 million to $15 million.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
And what would – the new theoretical in Macau is somewhere in the $20 million to $22 million range?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Yes. We put our last 12 months in there at $20 million, which is what we're using. So it's...
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
And I have taken exception to that with Matthew privately. I think the right number is closer to $22 million because of the dominance of baccarat.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Understood.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
But if you look at us historically, in calculating hold percentage, because we have so many buy-ins at the cage, which is completely atypical from the American experience, usually we know exactly what the drop or the handle is in a casino in Las Vegas. For those of you who may not be quite familiar with this term, when someone gambles at a table, at any table in the world, they have to buy chips. They come to the table, they give the money to the dealer and the dealer drops the money in the box and slides the chips out of the rack to the customer, and that's the buy-in. The other way that people get chips is with credit. And when they take a marker, if they're approved by the supervisor in charge or the team leader, then the chips are slid across the table out of the rack just as if they had paid cash and a credit slip associated with a marker goes into the box in lieu of cash. Now, there are other pieces of paper in the box that represent changes to the inventory in the rack during the eight-hour shift. Fills, if there's a need for more chips when the customers are winning or credit slips if the customers are losing and the rack gets overcrowded with the chips that are taken back, we return them to the cage. They don't have anything to do with handle. What we measure is the cash and the credit slips associated with markers. That tells us the total amount of activity. We measure that against the changes in the opening and closing inventories of the shift and that tells us the performance of the table, or the win. In China, and virtually no one buys chips at the cage in America, at least in our experience over the last 40-odd years, and then walks to a table and gambles. In China, they do, in fact, do exactly that. I don't know whether it's because they're using their credit card or they're cashing in whatever RMBs they have or whatever, but people go to the cage, buy chips, and then circulate around the casino and bring the gaming tokens to the table with them. That means that when we count the boxes, it's not a measurement truly of the drop or activity in the casino. The handle, it's referred to in the alternative. So we've started now taking the buy-ins in the cage, at the cashier, and the money and credit slips in the box, although in the mass casino we don't give credit at the table. But, we take the cash and the buy-ins at the cage and we try as close as we can to then re-create a comparable number that all of you would understand as handle or drop for the level of activity at the tables. I hope I'm being clear enough in this explanation. And based upon this, we've gone back and tried to give a comparison of the real hold compared to the theoretical hold of the mass table game activity in China. And my experience, because of the dominance of baccarat, that that number should be between $22 million and $23 million. Matt thinks it should be $20 million, but at any rate it's arbitrary. You can make an adjustment any way you'd like. If you look at us historically, it's what I said, $22 million, $23 million. Matt is – the whole financial structure of this company is extremely conservative, as you know, so Matt decided to say, well, it's $20 million. And I think that's on the low side, but call it what you may. Go ahead, Matt.
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Anything else? I hope that was clarified how it works. Many people don't really understand casino accounting or what handle is, and I thought it might be a good idea to slide it in.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.:
Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Operator:
The next question comes from Joe Greff of JPMorgan.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Hey, guys, again. Can you hear me okay?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Yeah.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Great. Two questions. Last week we heard from our friends at Las Vegas Sands, a little bit more of ability to take out costs along the lines of player reinvestments and direct marketing expenses and some other things as well. Can you talk about your ability to find expenses to reduce? Obviously we're aware of the challenges in Macau. And then my second question, maybe it's for the operating guys in Macau. Can you talk about the last two months or so of impact or lack of impact from phase two where you might be facing some revenue, additional revenue pressures if you can sort of parse through that? Thank you.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Hey, Ian. Why don't you answer Joe's questions?
Ian Michael Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A., Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Sure. So on the costs side, we – obviously two-thirds of our operating expenses are related to payroll. In absorbing a COLA adjustment to 5%, we've made efforts to bring down our payroll costs. We've had natural attrition throughout the year where we've not replaced people. We're about 173 FTEs down over the same period last year. We continued to push voluntary time off, which seems very appealing to the workforce, and between that and over time containment, we're looking at maybe US$20 million annualized in reduced payroll this year. We're in a marketplace where we're six to eight months out from opening Wynn Palace. We are doing a huge amount of training on property getting people ready for promotions to the new property. So we're being careful about reducing payroll with the need for 8,000 workers coming up between six and eight months' time. So, we're going to migrate a number of people over to Wynn Palace and that really is the opportunity for Wynn Macau to recalibrate back at Wynn Macau and look at the way our business is structured and streamlined in this property.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
We're carrying...
Ian Michael Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A., Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Looking at other...
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
I'm sorry, Ian. I was listening to you, Ian, and I want to remind everybody that we're carrying extra baggage in our expenses today in spite of the reductions mentioned. We're packing a lot of people in Macau Peninsula operation in anticipation of Macau. So that is one place where our expenses are artificially inflated as we warehouse people that we're planning to take next door. Secondly, I want to remind everybody that with the exception of maybe $1 billion, we're carrying most of the expenses of the financing of Macau in our existing financial condition. So we have relatively small amount of money left to pay compared to what's in that building and in that project already, so that the impact of whatever cash flow the Palace generates will seem rather dramatic because the expenses of the capital are in – almost $3 billion is in already of the $4 billion, maybe a little more. I don't know, Matt. What's the total?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
You're exactly right. We have $1 billion outstanding on our revolver at June 30.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
That's right. But, we're carrying the rest of it in today's numbers, which is worth noting, I think. Go ahead, Ian, if you have some more.
Ian Michael Coughlan - President, Wynn Resorts (Macau), S.A., Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
So we're obviously watching other expenses. We've trimmed advertising, we are re-contracting with a number of big contracts that we have with suppliers et cetera. So we're about 12% down quarter-over-quarter in our operating expenses, so we continue to watch it. But, the big opportunity is when we build in labor into Wynn Palace and we can reform back at Wynn Macau, we'll see a drop in head count here and we're getting ready for that. On the revenue side, clearly the junket market continues to be challenged in the way it's been challenged for the last 12 months, 14 months. On the mass casino side, we've taken advantage as described previously, of the additional room inventory. Currently 51% of our room inventory is going to the mass table games and mass slot area, and that's worked out very successfully. We clearly see difficulty at the very high level of mass. Those players are impacted in the same way that the junket and direct players are impacted from a liquidity perspective. But we've found a very rich stream of customers in the mid-tier, the business class of mass, and that continues to grow for us. The grind aspect of mass is stable. On the hotel side, you can see the numbers are still in the mid – occupancy still around 96% with a decent average rate. The town's got a lot more competitive, particularly in Cotai, with the addition of more Galaxy room inventory, and more to come with Studio City. But we continue to drive high occupancy with a good rate. Food and beverage is impacted in fine dining, particularly because of the lack of junket complementaries, and that's been the passion since late last year. So where we can, we're driving revenues and there has been some stability looking at junket turnover. That's been pretty stable over the last six months and we've seen the retail revenue stabilize over the last two or three months. The decline has softened considerably.
Joseph R. Greff - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Great. Thanks Ian. Thanks, Steve.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Yes. Sure.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Shaun Kelley of Bank of America.
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Great. Thank you. And thank you for taking my question. Maybe just to change topics a little bit to talk for a moment about Las Vegas. Steve, you mentioned obviously you guys continue to post some of the biggest numbers of any single property in the market. But last quarter I think in your comments, your tone on the market had changed a little bit, and I was just curious on kind of where do you sit now in terms of your outlook for Vegas? And are things improving off the bottom in what you were seeing back in May?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
You want to take that Matt?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Sure. So, I'm sorry, Shaun, could you repeat that one more time – in Las Vegas?
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Yeah, sure. Just your overview on Las Vegas. I mean I think last quarter there was sort of a notable tone shift, right, in terms of the outlook for forward bookings and how the summer was progressing. And just kind of curious on where you guys sit now that we're actually in the middle of it?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Sure. I just wanted to make sure that's what you asked, because Steve addressed that at the opening of the call that Las Vegas is, one month is good, and then you see June numbers come out, not so good here on the gaming side. So, Las Vegas is a grind right now, and we think we're in a good spot in our position in the business. But there's no accelerated growth going on here, in particular because of the international business.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
And, for example, last June we held 32% on a couple hundred million dollars. This year, our casino is behaving normally at over $21 million, but we made $60 odd million last year. We have these – we get the benefit of these tremendous big players. But when you have one of these giant months where you win all the money, the next year it always looks a little funny. In the end it all evens out, but we see these volatility fluctuations. But, our base business tends to be pretty steady. And Shaun, I guess that's the best way to explain it. We had more Chinese play last year than we did this year, and I mean a place like our own, we can make $60 million in a month in this hotel or $70 million. We can also make $25 million, and as I say, it evens out at the end. But when you look at it, short term, as we do every six or eight hours a day, I do at least, I'm in the casino every day and on the phone with my people. We've readjusted our floor on the Fourth of July and interestingly enough, many of the games in Las Vegas have become marginally profitable. Years ago down at Binion's, they started at the crap table of giving ten times odds. If you bet $100 on the line, you could bet $1,000 on the free odds behind the line if you bet the pass line. I'm getting a little technical. But in the old days in dice, whatever you bet on the line you could bet the same amount behind the line, and that was a hold percentage of a little under 1%. Then they started giving double odds compared to the amount of money you bet on the pass line, and that lowered the house percentage to 0.57%. Then there became a pattern on the strip of what's called the three, four, five. Depending on what numbers you were betting on the crap table to come up before number seven came up, you could get three times odds, four times odds, or five times odds. There are pairs of numbers on a dice table. Four and ten have two to one odds, five and nine have a different set of odds, and six to eight or six to five. Well, depending on what number you were trying to get, you could get three, four, or five times odds. That became a house advantage of 0.37%. With three dealers and a box man and a half of a floor man for every table, craps is not a really profitable game at that level. So I changed the casino. In effect, I raised the price, and I went to double odds only except for extremely high play with $1,000 minimum bet. I also rearranged the floor in the casino to put our specialty games that are very popular with the public that have a higher margin and I put them in the 100% location and I moved my games with less of a margin to secondary locations. Those changes have worked out favorably to us in the past three weeks, and that kind of re-examination – our slot floor has been redone. We win more money with less games now. These are some of the reasons why we make more money than anybody else in Las Vegas. Now some of the operators will copy us. We're not allowed to talk to one another because of obvious legal implications of price-fixing, but we don't really care what the other guys do. We run our own business the way we see we should, and we're not in business to offer games that don't make money, and I don't mind saying that publicly. So, we've done quite a bit of work in tightening up the way the casino works, and I know our competitors are on the call and they probably – everybody knows that the minute you make a change like that in Las Vegas, it goes around town like a wildfire. But those are some of the things we're doing and it touches every aspect. We're constantly re-examining everything we do here. We sit in my office and discuss the most fundamental aspects of this industry every single week, and we take nothing. We are not so much concerned of what has been or what is as we are concerned about what might be, and that's a principle truth of our company, whether it's in China or in Las Vegas or Boston or wherever. Next question?
Shaun C. Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Very helpful. Thank you.
Operator:
Our next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities International, Inc.:
Hi, Steve. To segue back to Macau about government policy, and I'm interested in your view on how encouraged you are about the government's relaxation of the transit visas and probability that they're going to leave the smoking lounges intact. What message do you take from that?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Well, the message I take is that acting as a group with respect and a good deal of humility that our conversations with the government do not completely fall on deaf ears, and both of those examples you just gave are examples of the government taking input from the gaming operators and reacting in what I think was an intelligent and appropriate way. We have a continuing dialog with the government because their major interest is to protect the security of the jobs of the people in the city, to keep harmony, tranquility and even a very positive attitude among the citizens, whether it's in Hong Kong or Macau, about the future. Our job as agents of change is to give input to the government, in advance if possible, of what the consequences of a given change in public policy might be. We do so with respect and as I say, we approach them with gratitude for being able to be there in the first place. It's been a wonderful business experience comparable to none that I'm aware of. And so, when we talk to the government, we do so constructively, and what we can do appropriately is to tell them what we think the consequences of a given situation will be. We don't pound the table or make any demands. We strictly say, if you do that, this is likely to happen. If you do that, then there'll be another result, and we'll do our best to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative, to quote one of Johnny Mercer's old lyrics. So, I was glad to see that they allowed the smoking rooms. There was no reason not to, and Secretary Tam, who is very concerned about public health, finally felt as if it was okay to allow the smoking rooms to continue, and that's a good thing. The relaxation of the visas to allow people in China to travel freely is consistent with the reform-mindedness of Xi Jinping's government and I think consistent with the attitude of the local government as well.
Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities International, Inc.:
I did have a follow up in Las Vegas. Just sticking with the demand on the non-casino side, and maybe, Matt, you have a sense and can put some numbers behind it. But how do you expect the balance of this year to look as far as bookings and room pricing for the balance of this year and into next year? Does there seem to be some good, some strong demand relative to 2015 building in 2016?
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
Yeah, sure. Maurice?
Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Yes. So, going forward as we look at the rest of this year, I think we'll be up slightly. I would say we're probably within 5% to 7% with respect to growth on our ADR. Going back to the point that Stephen made on the non-gaming side, the second quarter actually was our best non-gaming revenue quarter ever in the Wynn Las Vegas history. And so, we feel that there is steady growth within all operational areas that are non-gaming. And again, as Steve pointed out, the only issue that we have here with respect to trying to forecast would be the international volatility on the gaming side.
Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities International, Inc.:
And is a range of 5% to 7% a reasonable expectation for next year based on what you've got on the books already?
Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
It is.
Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities International, Inc.:
Okay. That's great. Thanks.
Operator:
The next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix of Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Good afternoon. Thank you. Steve, you just talked about the policy change in Macau, or some of the policy changes, and how gratified you are that the government seems to be listening to the operators, which is certainly a positive. But I'm curious regarding specifically the transit visa change, have you seen or do you expect to see any improvement in demands from that? And then also, do you think the current volatility in the Chinese stock market and slowing economy there could have an impact on demand in Macau?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
What an interesting question. My colleagues in China can tell you the visa aspect. The stock market question I'll deal with. What do you say about the visas, Linda? Gamal? How do you feel about that?
Gamal Aziz - President, Wynn Macau, Limited, Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
We're hearing – Steve, the area that we're having the most growth is in the mid-tier of our mass business, and in conversations with a lot of our marketing executives that they're saying that in the last couple of months since the relaxation of the visa, that they've seen an increase in the volume from that particular tier that Ian called the business class. So, it seems to be working, but only for that segment of the market.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
With regard to the stock market, the government in an attempt to stop a sell-off, imposed restrictions on people's ability to trade securities. I am not an expert on China and I'm not even a Wall Street expert, but I am a person who's been in a public company for 40 years. And my own experience, had I been consulted, I would've said don't do that exactly because if someone thinks that you're going to close the door on their ability to sell or trade their shares, you can only do that for a certain length of time and then the minute you finish doing it, the people scamper for the door because there's a loss of trust. So, interfering with the markets tend to produce – is counterproductive. It tends to accentuate people's insecurity which leads to selling. So, I hope that they're relaxing that, they're backing out of that, and I hope they do it more affirmatively for the sake of the market. Now, that's not really my concern because, our stock can trade at level A or level B. We don't pay very much attention to our stock price per se, we pay attention to the underlying performance of the company, and those factors associated with performance that are within our control, which is why every week we grind on everything in this building from the use of every square foot of our real estate and our structures, to our plans for the future. But the stock price and other stock prices in China have been subject to some great volatility lately, and I don't know that shutting the door on trading is a long-term healthy move. But, again, I'm not part of the planning people that run such things, and I know that historically that sort of thing has produced the opposite effect that it attempts to create.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Maybe, Gamal, have you heard from any – or Linda, have you heard from any of your people if the activities there are having an effect on demand at all?
Gamal Aziz - President, Wynn Macau, Limited, Wynn Resorts Ltd.:
Not from our team, Felicia. But you're hearing in the market that all these margin calls that are taking place are going to affect the junkets and their ability to collect the junkets themselves. Some of them were involved in the market. But all of this is in my opinion just short-term noise. And I don't think it's going to have any long-term effect.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay, great. That's helpful. And then, Steve, just as my follow-up, I'm just wondering if you can update us on the latest of what you're hearing from Japan? Are you getting the sense that gaming legislation could be closer?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Matt was there two weeks ago. I'll let him answer.
Matthew O. Maddox - President:
I think that they have a lot of very complicated legislative issues in Japan, and that the Integrated Resort Bill is not at the top of the list. It's important to the LDP, but there are things that are much more important, so I still am in the wait-and-see mode.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Inc.:
Okay. Thanks, Matt.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Thomas Allen of Morgan Stanley.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Hey, good afternoon. So in the past few months there's been some speculation in the press about potential M&A in the gaming space. So, just like to hear your thoughts about the potential of M&A in gaming and maybe Wynn's appetite to participate? Thanks.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Our approach to that issue is very simple to explain. Any time that a construction project, a change in operating procedure or an acquisition or a merger would result in a stronger company at the conclusion of such a transaction, we are very interested in it, we discuss it extensively and then follow through if it's appropriate. As we sit here today, we've never had such a opportunity presented to us that we thought was acceptable. That doesn't mean that at some point in the future such a thing couldn't happen, or that such an M&A, to use your term, a merger and acquisition, would make sense. But big for the sake of big is not a thing that I subscribe to, as you know, and I've said so before. We have a certain kind of a brand. It is flexible and adjustable for sure. But on the other hand, I'm more interested about tomorrow's newspaper than yesterday's newspaper. And we do a certain thing very well. We build and develop projects that usually room for room, inch for inch, pound for pound outperform the neighbors. The best place to see that at the present time is Las Vegas. As far as Cotai goes and Macau, when we open Wynn Palace, we're going to get a much more interesting comparison about the performance of the horses in the race. We're about to enter the starting gate in Cotai in a few months and then we're going to have a real interesting turn around the track. But, as far as today, M&A is the kind of option that of course always exists. I mean for a price you can buy anything, I suppose, and some people find it in their mutual best interests to join up from time to time, because the net result is that two and two equals five. But really it has to be two and two equals five. If two and two equals four, it seems to me a lot of trouble for nothing. I'd rather build our own stuff. Is that a helpful answer to you?
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
It is. Thank you.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
I don't have anything to report today. We're not involved with any active discussions at the moment. We talk about everything among ourselves, of course.
Thomas G. Allen - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC:
Thanks.
Operator:
The next question comes from Robin Farley.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Great. Thanks. I wonder if you could give a view for the opening of Wynn Palace. I understand that you have the workers there, that you're fully staffed in terms of construction workers. But do you think that given maybe kind of the soft opening post the Galaxy opening that the government may want to further spread out the opening of new supply and new resorts into the market?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Robin, that question assumes that I know what the government has in terms of its long-term strategy about employment. The only thing I know about the government that we get from them is they really want to see, number one, people who live in Macau being promoted from within, which is of course one of our major goals, and I can say one of our major accomplishments. They want a better life for the people that work in the industry and all of our employees are shareholders in this company, 100% of them. As for whether they want to spread out the openings or they're actively – your suggestion, I guess, means would they do something to delay an opening in order to spread it out?
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Yeah.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Well, I've never been told that that was their goal, nor have I ever heard from a third party that they wanted to do that. You could surmise that by restricting the flow of construction workers that it had that effect, but there are similarly other explanations for the amount of construction workers that were parsed out in the past having to do with traffic and congestion and local population being distressed if the streets are overcrowded and things like that. The government is very sensitive to the mood of the public in Macau. They had those demonstrations in Hong Kong and they didn't have any in Macau. And that, of course, is favorably observed by the central government and is one of the major goals of the Chief Executive, Fernando Chui. He wants harmony in the city, and I think that most of the decisions that he's made have been to create that environment. I don't think they've ever tried to stop somebody from opening, and I'd be surprised, Robin, if that philosophy was ever articulated. But it certainly hasn't been to us.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Securities LLC:
Okay. Thanks.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Sure.
Operator:
And there are no further questions at this time. Do you have any closing remarks?
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
No. Does anybody in the family, Gamal, Linda Chen, Ian, Frank, over in Macau, Maurice do you have anything you'd like to add on behalf of the American operation? Steve Cootey?
Stephen Lawrence Cootey - Chief Financial Officer, Treasurer & Senior VP:
No, all finished.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Kim, on the legal front, do you have...?
Kimmarie Sinatra - Secretary, Executive VP & General Counsel:
I have nothing to add.
Stephen Alan Wynn - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
We're hopeful that in Massachusetts at some point in the near future we'll be treated with a little softer hand considering that we're the largest single private investment in the history of the state, and that we're bringing to that town non-casino attractions that have never been around. We've never been a resino or a riverboat operator. We build resorts that are much more extravagant and attractive than they would be were it not for the fact that somewhere down the hall there's a gaming room. But we're basically in the resort business that has casinos included, and what we're bringing to Boston is a destination resort. And as the publicity has shown that we've experienced a little bit of buffeting politically, and we're sort of plowing ahead anyway. We receive encouragement from many quarters in that community, but we get resistance from others because the casinos seem to be such a prize for whatever local community to take advantage of its presence in that community that Boston has been rather critical of us because we weren't in Boston, but we are in Everett. And in Everett, Massachusetts, we once tried to go to Boston, but the – near the convention center when this all started. And the man in charge of conventions said, no, forget it, that property is not available. It was right next door to the convention center. So, Matt, went down the Street to another town, Everett, who are glad to see us, but unfortunately said you're going to have to clean up a chemical dump site in order to do it on the Mystic River. Well, we thought it was worth the trouble, so we went to Everett where 86% of the population was delighted to see us, and voted to say so. And then finally the citizens of Massachusetts in a plebiscite voted to support the legislation that invited a company like ours to Massachusetts. So, the table seem to be set for – the welcome mat seemed to be out. We just haven't found the welcome mat yet, but I'm the internal optimist, and I hoping it'll feel good when they stop hitting us. And I think that's my last comment today. Thanks everybody. Talk to you in 90 days.
Operator:
Thank you. This will conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect your lines.
Executives:
Steve Cootey – Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President and Treasurer Steve Wynn – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Matt Maddox – President Ian Coughlan – President-Wynn Resorts, Macau Maurice Wooden – President-Wynn, Las Vegas Frank Cassella – Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer-Wynn Macau Gamal Aziz – President-Wynn Macau Kim Sinatra – Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary
Analysts:
Carlo Santarelli – Deutsche Bank Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley Joe Greff – JPMorgan Shaun Kelley – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Steven Kent – Goldman Sachs Felicia Hendrix – Barclays Harry Curtis – Nomura
Operator:
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for holding and welcome to the First Quarter 2015 Earnings Call. I would now like to turn the call over to our host, Steve Cootey, Chief Financial Officer, Wynn Resort. Please go ahead.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you, and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, John Strzemp, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden and myself here in Las Vegas. Gamal Aziz, Linda Chen, Ian Coughlan, Frederic Luvisutto, Robert Gansmo and Frank Cassella dialing in from Wynn Macau. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under the Safe Harbor Federal Securities Law and those statements may or may not come true. With that, I’ll going to turn the call over to Mr. Steve Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
Well, the numbers in the first quarter are out. I think the trends in Macau were beginning to be very visible in the fourth quarter, but our hopes for an improvement in the Chinese New Year turned out to be incorrect. And the repositioning of the market and the degradation of the volumes in VIP, have continued even into April. Most of my remarks now are going to include what we’ve seen in the first four months, not just the first three months, because the trends that were clear in January, February and March have continued into April and as we look at the whole year in Las Vegas and Macau, certain simple truths emerge. It is no secret that there’s been a change in mainland China in attitudes towards a number of things that have impacted Macau. That has not – nothing has changed since this all began last October. And the depression of the VIP market continues. Business is up 44%, 45% or something like that. It is impossible for us to predict how long that will last. We’re not in a position to answer those kinds of questions intelligently. We’re only in a position to react intelligently to what we see. We run this company and we have at all times, with a few simple guidelines and principals. Number one, we want to maximize shareholder value for the people that actually own the company. We want to always be able to honor our debts and never have to ask for reconsideration. In order to do that, we’ve pay careful attention to the capital structure of the company. At the core of the whole discussion is what is the franchise of a business like Wynn Resorts or any of the others in the hospitality business? And it’s simply guest experience. Guest experience is what creates a better tomorrow and allows us to continue in business, eventually raise our prices to offset the rising cost of business. People that have a good experience tell their friends and they come back again and again. Guest experience is the beginning, the middle and the end of the story. If you accept that as the truth, then of course, guest experience is determined by our employees, the people that actually touch our guests and create that experience. So our attention goes from our balance sheet and our financial condition to maintain flexibility, but also it goes immediately to keeping our workforce stabilized, happy, and proud to be here. That’s the core of our business plan, that’s the core of our understanding, and every major decision in this company is determined by those principles alone. Protect the employee attitudes and morale, because they impact and they really create the guest experience. In order to do that, again, our financial condition has to remain flexible, strong and secure. In the 40-odd years I’ve been in business, we’ve never altered a debt or any of that sort of thing, and we don’t ever intend to do it. So as we look backwards for the fourth quarter and especially during the last four months, and understand what’s happening, both in Las Vegas because of the Asian impact on Baccarat, and we look back and then we extrapolate and try predict the future, or at least understand what most likely will be the future, it is foolhardily and immature and unsophisticated to issue dividends on borrowed money. We only distribute money that’s free cash flow based upon our earnings that trail. Therefore, today we lowered the dividend as we have raised it in the past, based upon financial results. We are lowering it today to $0.50 a quarter. And I might add that I and my Board of Directors would not hesitate to adjust the dividend down or up based upon performance, without a second thought and without any apology. Dividends are nothing and – we don’t say that because we have a business, that we now have a $0.50 dividends forever. That’s baloney and any company that does that is irresponsible. We distribute the money that we make after we make provisions for capital expenditures and all of our other obligations, to creditors and to our employees. And then we distribute aggressively whatever is free and easy to distribute after that. Now I’m speaking on this call as the largest single recipient of such distributions. There is a few institutions that, if you take T. Rowe Price, own more shares collectively, at least for the moment, but they’re in individual pockets. When there’s a dividend check in this company, the largest one goes to me. And so I say again, unapologetically as a shareholder and as a Chairman of the Board, we believe that you distribute the money that is free and clear cash flow after you’ve met all other obligations, and the Board of Directors should consider that principle every time they meet each quarter, as we did this time. And I hope that those comments summarize not only our current attitude, but will allow anybody to predict our future behavior at Wynn Resorts with regard to distributions. We have two projects that are aggressive and ambitious. One of them is a $4 billion Wynn Palace in Macau, which even though we’ve struggled with adjusting our work schedule on construction to the permissions we’ve been given for workers on construction by the government, we believe we’re going to be open at the end of the first quarter next year in March. And Wynn palace will quite simply be the most extravagant and beautiful hotel in the world. 1,700 rooms and I don’t think there’s ever been anything quite like what we’re going to show off next year. It took us two years to plan it, it’s taken four years to build it. Big, long project conceived by people with experience, and I think will be a powerful addition to the Macau market, whatever size that Macau market may be at the moment. We do not know how many tables we’re going to have. That’s a very difficult uncertainty to adjust to. But nevertheless, it is the uncertainty of the moment as to what the government will do. When we started the project, we had an understanding that the table levels would – that we would need approximately the same amount of tables as we had at the Peninsula Hotel, and nobody objected. But then subsequent to our beginning, the government made an announcement to institute a cap of certain percentage of table increases a year. They’ve said that the allocation of that percentage of extra tables is a decision that they will make based upon a number of factors, and they will weigh such factors and as diversification, non-casino versus casino. The Wynn Palace is the most extravagant exercise in non-casino attractions in Macau. We’ve taken entertainment to every restaurant. We’ve taken massive public entertainment to the front and dedicated a huge portion of our real estate to public entertainment for tens of millions of dollars, approximately 100 when we’re done, with just the front lake. So it’s going be the big photo op for Macau and it will show up next year, hopefully with enough tables to allow it to prosper. We’ll begin construction this fall in Boston. We’ve made most of the financial arrangements to finance those projects. Macau is completely financed. Boston is almost completely financed at very favorable rates with debt that is non-recourse to the parent. And so, the company at the moment is on strong financial footing. I don’t know whether, with this change in EBITDA, whether S&P and Moody’s will continue our bond rating as favorably as they have in the past. But the fundamental health of the company is perfect and without question, and my intention is to keep it that way, without any qualification to that statement. Now we’ll take questions, and all of the executives in China and Las Vegas are here to get into the detail of these stories. I just wanted to provide the overview. With that, it’s up and we’ll take questions.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli of Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
You’ve long been a proponent of having a capital structure that matched the operating environment, so I don’t think this necessarily would come as a total surprise. But as you contemplated the dividend and you thought about some of the CapEx expenditures that were coming over the next few years, what kind of drove you to make this decision today? And does it say anything about your view on the outlook for Macau over the next 18 to 24 months, other than just what we’ve already seen and that it remains very murky?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. Hey, Carl, it’s Matt Maddox. So when we were reviewing this, Steve put it perfectly that we don’t plan on dividending out borrowed money. And so, if you look at our payout ratio based on our adjusted earnings per share, what we’re looking at right now is similar to what we did last year. So that’s really the way we’re looking at the capital structure. And there’s so much uncertainty right now in Las Vegas, in Macau, and with our project coming on next year, that we’re just not going to be dividending borrowed money.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood. Thanks, Matt. And then if I could, just one follow-up on Macau, guys. Was there any differential, or any meaningful differential, between your direct and VIP on the hold side, or what you’re saying, maybe a little bit of the cost creep from some of the fixed expenses in the business?
Matt Maddox:
No. I would say that there was really no impact from a hold standpoint on margins, and clearly there is a little bit of cost creep. If you look at the fourth quarter for 2014 to the first quarter this year you can see that, and operating expenses today are up around 7%.
Steve Wynn:
Our new junket rooms did well. But the other junket operators that weren’t quite as powerful – I wouldn’t say they scavenged the other ones, but the new junket rooms are in the hands of very well-financed operators. So, and the rooms were very well received and they’ve been lively and they’ve been busy.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great. Thank you both.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen of Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Hi. So two questions on the occupancy. So in Macau, your occupancy held in relatively well. Some of your peers, you saw sizable drops. Can you just talk about your expectations of occupancy trends in Macau going forward especially after we all saw March visitation dropping down significantly? And just second part of the question is just on Vegas. We saw a decline in occupancy, was that a function of just a CON/AGG comp or something else? Thanks.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, CON/AGG. Go ahead, Matt.
Matt Maddox:
All right. Ian, you want to take the Macau call and Maurice, you can add color in Las Vegas.
Ian Coughlan:
Absolutely. We have a slightly different eco climate on the peninsula. We also have a smaller inventory of rooms than the big operators in Cotai. So with 1,000 keys we also had a shift of rooms into our premium mass and mass segment. So we have some new reward programs where we’re giving approximately 100 rooms a day more to our premium mass and mass areas, where we’ve been able to grow a mid-section of our Mass business very nicely despite the downturn in business. So we’ve utilized the inventory where the business is. So we’ve kept our occupancy virtually the same as last year.
Maurice Wooden:
So, in Las Vegas the first quarter, we saw a lot of compression with Convention business in the month of January where there was a lot of opportunity. We just didn’t have all the room inventory. So where you have a lot of business that really was interested in being in Las Vegas during that month. As opposed to the previous year we were spread out throughout February and March as well. Of course you had mentioned March as far as CON/AGG and Con Ex [ph], and that was a big impact for us from a revenue perspective as well as from a room [ph] perspective.
Steve Wynn:
While you’re at it, Maurice.
Maurice Wooden:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
How do you see May and June and the summer at this point for Las Vegas?
Maurice Wooden:
Well, for April and May, we have a strong base and stable base of convention as well as leisure mix. Summer’s going to be interesting. We’re starting to see summer trends not pick up the same way they did in previous year. So we’re paying very close attention to the market. And what we’re getting as indicators as far as the summer business but it does not seem as strong at this point as it was last year.
Steve Wynn:
And business in April, compare business in April compared to business in March.
Maurice Wooden:
April’s business is much better than March. A lot more stable. The base is more equalized with respect to the different segments that are filling our rooms here. And so we had a better convention base, better mix.
Steve Wynn:
But in terms of the whole operation in Las Vegas, the EBITDA decline that we’ve been seeing continues.
Maurice Wooden:
It does.
Steve Wynn:
If you were to ask me, since we’re making forward-looking statements, what will the second quarter look like in Las Vegas? Weak. Do you hear me? Weak. So I’m trying to lower expectations here. This notion of a big recovery is a complete dream. I don’t think Las Vegas is experiencing a great recovery. I think it’s still very patchy and I think that that’s probably our non-casino revenue in the first quarter was flat. I’d be thrilled if it was flat in the second quarter. Wouldn’t you, Maurice?
Maurice Wooden:
I would be.
Steve Wynn:
Yeah, can you hear that? Here’s two of us saying we’d be thrilled if non-casino revenue was flat in the second quarter as it was in the first. My guess is that that’s going be a struggle.
Thomas Allen:
So what do you think is driving it? As you think about the summer is it the strengthening U.S. dollar? Is it something else? And then, I’m just going to sneak in one more question. When you talked about Cotai Palace opening up or being prepared to open up in March of next year. Can you give us an update on the labor allocation? I think there was some issue with that last quarter? And I’m done. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Well, on our labor allocation, we got less than we asked for, then we appealed and they gave us some more. Then we made another application and they gave us less than we asked for and we appealed that. I’m not sure how exactly the process works in the calculations that are done at the labor department in Macau. These jobs after all are people from mainland China just on the other side of the fence. But there’s pressure locally, the locals don’t want the streets too crowded or something. They put pressure on the local government officials and they respond, they’re very sensitive to local pressure. So it leaves us in a bit of a quandary. We never know quite what to expect these days. And uncertainty, for our employees we’re beginning to notice that our, we have the lowest. Let me start over on this. In that town where there’s a 25% to 30% turnover rate, our company stands alone with a current rate of 8%. All of last year was 11%. We have – our employees are very sticky. They like us, they stay with us. That’s a big advantage when you’re building a new property. However, every one of our employees in Macau is a shareholder of Wynn Macau. And they’re counting on the cumulated dividends, the value of those shares, as their basic savings. The current situation in Macau is threatening them, and unfortunately I’m not in a position to protect them from the exposures attendant to the changes that have been brought about in the marketplace. We try and deal with that as we build the new place. But there’s no question that uncertainty is the plaguing word of the day in Macau. And hopefully, our government in Macau will calm that down and put some certainty back into the picture, and that’ll be very important to the employees who are basically Macau citizens. But they’re beginning to feel these rumbles and I fear that, that may erupt into protests against the government if it isn’t settled soon.
Thomas Allen:
And sorry, just following up on my first question. What do you think is driving the weakness during the summer in Las Vegas? Is it the stronger U.S. dollar? Is it fewer fly out of China? And then again, I’m done after that. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Both of the two things that you just mentioned are in play. And secondly or thirdly, the recovery in America is a jobless recovery in real terms. And inflation in America in real terms is an enormous number. So I think that the general economic recovery in the United States has been grossly overstated. And we’re an echo of that here in Las Vegas as one of America’s main destination resort cities. And all of you get to hear these kinds of comments from other public companies that are engaged in this business, and I think a picture’s beginning to emerge. Next question.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff of JPMorgan.
Joe Greff:
Good afternoon, everybody. Maybe just a difficult question to answer, Steve, and I think you touched on it in a couple of answers here. But do you think the Macau government cares if the new projects that are opening in Cotai over the next few years, if those new projects cannibalize the existing base of casino hotels? Particularly if that generates disruption to social harmony locally in Macau? How do those topics of conversation, how do they go when you potentially bring that up as a topic of conversation with the government there?
Steve Wynn:
What a great question. And first of all, it will impact social harmony. But I – the government officials are balancing, I think at this point, a lot of issues that have emanated from Beijing, and also emanate from their own population. How they walk that tightrope and what their decisions are, are at the moment unpredictable to us. Because we’re – we can’t sit in their – we can’t stand in their shoes. We don’t really know how much pressure they feel in different areas. We hear their public statements and we certainly enjoy private conversations with them, but they tend to be very formal. They’re never critical on anything directly. When they want something, they make requests. It’s a very civilized process. But there’s no question that the atmosphere has changed and become cloudier in terms of predictability and consistency, it’s definitely become cloudy. They had a press conference, one of the new ministers as part of this government that, I mean made a statement from the legislature that the light rail system, which has been under development for five years that I’m aware of or six years, they don’t have any idea exactly when it’ll be finished or what it’s going to cost. I’m sure that was a painful thing for the man to say exact words. You cannot excuse the unexcusable. I’m here just to apologize. Well, if that’s going on at the highest levels of the government in Macau, you can imagine how – what happens as it filters down to those of us who aren’t of the resort industry. So I don’t know if I’m being very helpful in passing on my impressions, but I’m doing the best I can.
Joe Greff:
Great. And then I have a quick question following up on your other crystal-clear comments on the Las Vegas Strip. If you were to look at the non-Chinese resort Baccarat player, is that segment on the Las Vegas Strip relatively healthier or in good shape?
Matt Maddox:
I would say that it’s just not necessarily healthier. I would again look at the same trends that we have with respect to far east market. I think that they are paying close attention to traveling over here and whether they should or whether they shouldn’t. So it’s – if that’s a measurable, it’s a little different than watching our high-end play.
Steve Wynn:
We’re going have a – we’re having this call today on the eve of the upcoming Pacquiao fight and Mayweather fight. And this, in my 40-odd years in this town, this is a one-off. I have never seen madness and demand of this sort. This fight is probably going to break all records for pay-per-view. It certainly is breaking all records in what they’re getting for tickets. We have never charged more than $1,500 for a ringside seat in a fight and they’re going for $10,000, and then $7,500 for the medium range, and then $5,000 for the ones in the upper tier, an outrageous amount of money. Mayweather and Pacquiao are going to not only have to have a fight, but they’re probably going to have to do a chorus line or something to justify the cost of this. But our room rates are at $1,300, $1,400, $1,500 for typical rooms, and you can’t get a room in this town. I’ve never seen anything like it even with Hagler fought Leonard, Ali, nothing like this. And there’s a lot of Baccarat business coming to town this weekend, a ton of it. So we’re going to have one of these New Year’s Eve, Chinese New Year pumps. But I’m trying to give an overview here of what’s really going on in terms of the tempo of the city here, and I think we ought to keep our eye on the long view as opposed to the short view.
Joe Greff:
Thank you for your thoughts.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley of Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
Shaun Kelley:
Hey. Good afternoon, everyone. Just to circle back to the dividend philosophy for a quick second, Matt, you mentioned I think in response to another question, the idea of basically a payout ratio as it relates to your current earnings per share. And I was wondering, is that something that we should look to as sort of a guidepost for this? And how often should we think that the dividend will be re-evaluated? Is it a quarterly thing or is it going to be, kind of, this is what you think you need to get through Cotai from here?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I’m going to answer. It’s Steve. It is quarterly reviewed. We said $0.50 a share because we thought that was a relevantly stable number, couple hundred million dollars. If we do $1 billion in EBITDA or something like that, we probably have $400 in free cash flow. Right, Matt?
Matt Maddox:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
And so we said, well, we could safely say half of that. We could have said $3.00 instead of $2.00 a year. But I decided that until we get a clearer picture of this, I was going to try to avoid another reduction if I could. But I want to make it clear, Mr. Kelley. I wouldn’t think twice if there was another big change in changing it every quarter. Up or down. Make no mistake about it. We do not feel it is an appropriate prudent management to make promises about distribution in a business that fluctuates. Now that may be bad news to some investors who would prefer to know that it just comes off like clockwork, but this is not that kind of a company. And it’s never really going to be that kind of a company. We’ll get bigger. I think we’ll do fine with Cotai as a percentage of return on its investment. I think we’ll do great in Boston as a percentage of return on its investment. And therefore, the company will grow and the available cash flow will increase hopefully. And so will our dividends, because we’re a distribution company. But at the moment – I mean, one of the benefits of the fact that we are a distribution company is that we distributed billions of dollars to our shareholders. That’s good news. But it’s not an inherent promise of a fixed amount of money. It’s only an inherent promise of our approach to the problem. Hear me on this. There’ll be no change in that attitude while I’m sitting in my chair.
Shaun Kelley:
Got it. I think that’s crystal clear. And then I guess a second question, and this is certainly changing topics a little bit, was I noticed in the release that when you look at the mix in the mass business, and what you saw during the quarter, look at the whole ratio was up. It’s always been hard to read those numbers, particularly in recent times. But my question is, did you guys see more of a shift to premium mass in the quarter? Or was it pretty balanced between what you saw in sort of, the more grind mass and the higher-end part of mass? Just kind of curious to what you guys saw throughout the quarter.
Steve Wynn:
Linda or Frank in Macau, I know it’s late or early. You want to pick up on that?
Frank Cassella:
Sure. We – as Ian said earlier, we’ve been able to take a lot of the rooms away from junkets and reallocate those to the mass, specifically the mid-tier mass that we saw. We definitely saw some improvement in the mid-tier mass. Over half of our rooms are now allocated to the mass, and that way – and we were able to realize benefits from that.
Shaun Kelley:
Great. Thank you, everyone.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Steven Kent of Goldman Sachs.
Steven Kent:
Hi. Good afternoon.
Steve Wynn:
Bet, I noticed that you upgraded us today. And then, did you do it in spite of this call?
Steven Kent:
Actually just to be clear, it was my counterpart in Hong Kong who did it. Not me.
Steve Wynn:
Okay.
Steven Kent:
So we’ll be sure to wake him up. So just, I guess, a question. Given so much uncertainty in Macau and Vegas, why not scale back the project or delay the project in Boston? Why not do the same thing in Macau? Why – maybe you need to slow that down?
Steve Wynn:
Hold on. We can’t slow it down. It’s being finished. And there’s bank obligations. You can’t slow it down in Macau. The building is sitting there. The skin is on. They’re getting ready to fill the lake. Staff is hired. I don’t suspect that we’re going to lose money in Macau, if that’s your – if you’re wanting me to draw that inference. I don’t – I’m not implying...
Steven Kent:
No, it...
Steve Wynn:
I don’t want you to infer that. Boston, we have made hard and fast commitments to the Gaming Commission in Massachusetts. These things are really – you’re very much handcuffed in what you say and what you’re required to do in these conditions, when you go before these regulatory agencies such as Massachusetts. You don’t get much wiggle room. You could certainly make sure you have complete drawings at hard and fast numbers on the cost of the project, even if it takes an extra few months to get the drawings done, and we surely will do that.
Steven Kent:
And – but then it sounds like, Steve, that you have a much more bullish long-term view on Macau, a much more bullish view on the domestic market.
Steve Wynn:
I do.
Steven Kent:
So...
Steve Wynn:
I do.
Steven Kent:
Oh.
Steve Wynn:
Absolutely.
Steven Kent:
So why don’t you lay that out for people? Because I think there’s going to be a lot of anxiety tomorrow that a guy like you who’s been around for a while and is pretty thoughtful, is cutting his dividend and is talking about how terrible things are, yet is also spending quite a bit of money because you truly believe in the long-term market in Macau and in Massachusetts. So why don’t you layout why that’s the case?
Steve Wynn:
Okay. First of all, my comments on the dividend are irrelevant to the moment. They just explain how we approach distributions, and I think that applies in good times and in hard times as well. In terms of my long-term view, what I object to very often is this unrelenting attempt of CEOs and their agencies in these calls to try and support the stock price with rosy predictions that do not come through. What I’m interested in accomplishing when we have these phone calls is to build up a structure of trustworthiness and predictability about the way we run the company. In order to do that, I have to be very candid about what we see and the conditions that we find ourselves in. And I don’t know any other way to handle this and still be true to the notion of creating consistency in the way people perceive the management’s common sense and my Board of Directors’ common sense. Incidentally, all of us are totally unanimous on this and this approach. If I start to talk about, don’t worry about all this. The long-term is going be great, although my instincts tell me that that has to be true. I mean after all, President Xi Jinping, he instituted this campaign against corruption based upon his explicit explanation that he felt that there was a perception in the billion, 300 million Chinese that government officials were corrupt. Of course they were members of the Communist Party and that this corruption undermined the public’s faith in its government. And therefore, he was bound and determined to change that, period. And he set out on this campaign and if we’re to believe the South China Morning Post, the leading newspaper of south China in Hong Kong that thousands upon thousands of public officials have been brought up on accusations of misconduct of varying degrees. Starting at the political bureau, itself, which is unprecedented and descending all the way down the chain of command to local governments. If this observation is accurate then Xi Jinping is doing the right thing for the right reason. Now does that create a new norm? I don’t know. People like to use phrases like that the new norm. Newspaper people love to be able to make far reaching and categorical statements. They’re irresponsible when they do that. There are no far reaching and categorical statements but we know this, the only reason that President Xi Jinping did this was to strengthen public confidence in his government. His speeches in Macau in December was unequivocal. He supports the continuing prosperity and the diversification, like our new resort, of the offerings for tourism and other industries in Macau. He was unequivocal in that statement. And he has begun to take steps in mainland China to privatize and to make the government-owned companies either more responsive to the public or to change them to private. If the Communist Party and its leadership are dedicated to a peaceful growing and harmonious China, then it’s hard to believe that they would do anything to sabotage one of their key possessions, Macau, going forward or Hong Kong for that matter. And for that reason, one can be very positive about the long-term future of China and its special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau. I look at that big picture to draw my confidence in our participation and hopefully our long-term participation there as agents of development and change, as visitors and guests of that country to bring about positive results. So there’s my long-term view and the reason for it. But these short-term implications are significant. We’ve lost half the province. You go from making $4 million a day to $2 million a day. Now considering that the success we’ve had in Macau, $2 million a day, would be terrific anywhere else. But compared to the unbelievable events of the past few years, it seems morbid. It’s not morbid. Am I being responsive to you? Have I explained it?
Steven Kent:
Yeah.
Steve Wynn:
Why I tend to talk about what we see and what we think, and I’m trying to deal with the next six or eight months and it’s hard to do. I’ve been doing this for 40-odd years. I have to tell you, and I talk to Sheldon. We’re very good friends. It’s hard for us. It’s hard for Rob Goldstein and the rest of the people, our neighbors next door. Who are up to their eyebrows in development investments in China? They’ve noticed it in Singapore as well. And then we hear that finally it appears the Japanese are going to pass – are on the threshold of passing a study bill. We’ve always been told that if they weren’t going to do it, they wouldn’t have a study bill in the diet. But now it turns out there’s going be a study bill it appears this week. We spent – I spent the day yesterday with a deputation from Osaka, the whole day yesterday with Osaka. And they were here touring all the hotels. So there’s a lot of good news and I love our opportunity in Boston. We’re going to build them the first really grand hotel in the city with nonstop service from every major capital in Europe, Latin America, Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai. So I don’t want to stop anything, but I want to build them carefully with as much insight that we can gain from our 40 odd years of successful experience. We’ve never had a failure in this industry. We’ve never hit a real bump. We don’t do layoffs.
Steven Kent:
Thanks.
Steve Wynn:
Okay.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the lean of Felicia Hendrix of Barclays.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I’m directing this to Linda and Ian, but it’s also for you Steve. And Steve, I realize that in your prepared remarks you said that you can’t address this intelligently given the uncertainty. But I really do want to hear how you’re all thinking about the deceleration in VIP, GGR and premium mass as you try to run your business and budget for the future? I mean certainly you must have your own forecast and assumptions for when this acceleration flows, even bottoms up. I get this question all the time from investors. I know you get this question, but considering you have your finger on the pulse of this market a lot more than I do. I really do want to hear your thoughts.
Steve Wynn:
Linda. Linda Chen?
Matt Maddox:
Steve, Linda’s in the air traveling, drumming up business.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. Then you and Gamal can take this one. I think you’re talking about China right?
Felicia Hendrix:
Correct.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. Let’s hear it from Macau.
Gamal Aziz:
Felicia, I think – this is Gamal. Basically the opportunity that we have in the decline of the VIP business has opened a window for us to attract more of the premium and general mass to the property which you have seen in the first quarter, and it actually continues in April. It opened up more room inventory and it allowed us to invite some of our premium and middle tier of the premium market. And as you saw, the market declined about 27%. Wynn Macau declined only by 6% or 7%. So we’re making inroads in that category in that segment of the market. I think that’s going to continue. Every time we have an opportunity in the decline of the VIP we’ll open it up for the more aspirational premium and general mass. So I think that’s a balance that’s going to continue until there is a stabilization on the VIP front. Whether that lasts until the second or third or fourth quarter, we will have the flexibility to fill in the room with mass and premium mass customers.
Steve Wynn:
That’s what we – the President of China expressed as has the Chief Executive, Fernando Choy [ph], the repetition of the desire for the diversification of the offerings in the city. Wynn Palace is primarily a non-casino attraction. Billions of dollars of the $4 billion are dedicated to non-casino attractions. It becomes, in a few months when we’ve filled in the lake and turn on the fountains, and the condolers start to flow, it will be the photo op in China. Just as the Bellagio was. It will be the photo op in China. If that isn’t diversification then I need a new lesson in the use of language. But we have followed the guidelines of the government religiously in diversifying the offerings that we have. And in private conversations with the government I’ve raised the question of further diversification and I’m awaiting their response. The government is tentative at best in responding to us. I think that’s a reflection of a little bit of their own uncertainty under the circumstances. I repeat again. The tentativeness of the government is a reflection of their own uncertainty, I believe, in many respects, as far as predicting where to go tomorrow or in the near future. There’s a new boss in China, Xi Jinping, and his agenda is something that everybody is adjusting to. He’s a very dynamic man. He enjoys enormous popularity among the people of China. And in China, the people matter. And so, everybody’s waiting and watching.
Felicia Hendrix:
Steve, do you think that there’s a risk as the new properties open this year, if they don’t grow the market? We talked about social harmony a few questions ago. Do you think that there’s a risk if the new properties that open don’t grow the market, the properties that are slated to open in 2016 could get delayed?
Steve Wynn:
I don’t know the answer to that question. I don’t know how you’d delay Wynn Palace without causing major social disruption in the city. All of these people, their shares, their jobs, their future, these are Macau people, are sitting in anticipation of that event. There’s never been a hotel at this scale in Macau. And as big as Venetian is, Wynn Palace is a $4 billion hotel. Now, that money was very carefully spent. And you say it slowly, 1,700 rooms, $4 billion. This is a fancy piece of business. It is a destination-creating – it creates more of a destination for Macau from people from far away. Remember, growth in a market, the phrase I’ve used before, tourism is all about bringing people from over there to over here. And the way you bring people from over there to over here, is to make sure that what’s here is better than what is over there. That simplistic three sentences I just said, are at the heart of the way we’ve designed and created, based upon 43 years of unparalleled construction. Every project we’ve ever done has changed the market. We decided that we were going to try and do that again in Macau, and we took our time as you know with the Palace. And it represents our very best effort. The city benefits from that, in its appeal to the outside world, to bring folks from outside China and from all over the Pacific Rim to Macau, just as the other buildings that have been built by Galaxy and by Melco and by Venetian have done that. The growth of that market, it’s positioned as a destination in Asia, is the most phenomenal modern development in the last 50 years. Why anyone would want to tamper with that or undermine it, flies in the face of all the logic that we have been discussing for the past several minutes. But can there be social disruption? For sure. The public and the citizens of Macau have been brought to a higher level of income and a higher level of expectation, and they don’t hesitate to express themselves publicly on the subject. The government is now currently awaiting and hoping there won’t be any May demonstrations. Just like America, everybody has high hopes and everybody gets a little spoiled at times, and they want what they want when they want it. And all we do is try and service this expectation as best we can, with the help of the government hopefully.
Felicia Hendrix:
Hopefully. Last just very quick, housekeeping, Matt or Marc, just what were the number of tables in Macau in the end of the quarter in mass and VIP? In the release you gave the average number, but if you could give us the end-of-quarter number that would be helpful.
Steve Wynn:
Who in my family knows the answer to that question? Felicia, would you repeat the question, please?
Felicia Hendrix:
Hi. Yeah, the number of tables in Macau – the number of mass tables, the number of VIP tables at the end of the quarter. In the release it was just – given the average was given.
Steve Wynn:
It was 215 mass and 252 VIP.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
That’s in our hotel.
Felicia Hendrix:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
Oh, I thought you meant for the city.
Felicia Hendrix:
Okay. Well, the 252 in the release it says it’s the average number. It’s because you opened up the renovated part of the casino at the end of the quarter that’s why I’m just trying to see what the numbers are.
Steve Wynn:
They’re constantly being adjusted, as you know. As Gamal [indiscernible]. One of the interesting – I’m sorry. Go ahead, Ian.
Ian Coughlan:
I was going to say, we think that we haven’t just woken up and thought we need to reconfigure the floor. We’ve been reconfiguring between mass and VIP now for nine to 12 months. We continue to do that and its part of our plan going forward. So we’re constantly reenergizing areas of the casino. The two new VIP rooms are under construction for eight months. It closed down a big section of the casino. We had a lot of disturbance for six months. Now we have a fully operating casino again. But we have future plans as well for the mass casino. We’ll continue to recalibrate it and balance between VIP and mass.
Steve Wynn:
Here’s a point of interest. When we designed the palace, it was going to have a spectacularly dramatic front area with the fountains, and the gondolas, and everything else. And, of course, it was going be serviced by the light rail. It was going to stop right in the middle of our front area. Well, whether it stops now or later is irrelevant to the fact that we had to answer the question, what do we put on the lake? Well, we put major restaurants and then we put VIP rooms. Each of them, and our pool, and our recreation area all look over the lake. The gondolas pass over and look at the recreational area of the hotel from about 30 feet up and about 30 feet out over the water. It’s quite dramatic. And there’s music in the gondolas, and air conditioning in the gondolas as people experience this, to use a Disney term, this e-ride. Now we decided to put VIP rooms on the lake and each one of them have balconies. Well you know there’s been a crackdown on smoking that’s very aggressive by the government. There’s no misunderstanding their intention or their rationale for such things. And our job is to accept those decisions, regardless of our own opinions about those decisions. Frankly, the air inside our hotel is better than the air outside our hotel. But notwithstanding that truth, we were able to take the mass area and some of our regular gaming and put it in these areas on the lake which means that these tables can take three steps and be outside on a smoking balcony. It was unintended consequences but it tends mitigate the impact of the smoking ban, because all of these areas around the lake have terraces that are open-aired and will allow visitors to smoke if that’s their pleasure. And so there’s a little silver lining to the smoking cloud. We have an advantage that our competitors don’t enjoy in regard to that fact. Just a little piece of business that’s interesting about as you reallocate space.
Felicia Hendrix:
Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Anybody else want to step up here?
Operator:
And your next question is from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis:
Hi, guys.
Steve Wynn:
Hi.
Harry Curtis:
Hi, Steve. Steve or Ian, if you could give us an update on the infrastructure that’s needed to accommodate the 10 to 12 million visitors that are required to generate double-digit returns in Macau. You’ve touched on the light rail system. Are you hearing anything about when that might be operational? And then we’re hearing different things about the bridge. If you could cover the map on that.
Steve Wynn:
The light rail system is a question mark, according to the secretary and his testimony before the ledge Coe. Having covered that, we can turn now to the bridge. Ian and Gamal, what’s the latest on our bridge construction? When I was there a little while ago, the construction, you can look from helicopter and see it clearly enough.
Gamal Aziz:
The latest estimate on the bridge, Steve, there are some media reports that it’s not going to be done until 2020. We asked someone high in government and they said that’s not correct that it should be done by the end of 2017. So that’s the latest information. But that’s a moving target for these people.
Ian Coughlan:
There’s different responsibilities Steve with different governments. The Macau side may very well be ready but on the Hong Kong side they have some big reclaimed land infrastructure to take care of. So we’re depending on three parties, mainland China, Macau, and Hong Kong to get the bridge finished. The number as Gamal said, the year as Gamal said is around 2020. That’s pretty much the latest that we’ve heard.
Steve Wynn:
There you have it.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. Steve. The last question that I had was if you could discuss whatever issues in Everett that still need to be resolved? Years ago there used to be environmental issues. Are there environmental drillings that have to happen? What about the dispute with the city of Boston? Just any update on those would be terrific?
Matt Maddox:
Sure. So we’re continuing to move forward in our master permitting process and we’re making a lot of progress with MEPA and the department of transportation. We’ve performed all the drilling and testing on site.
Steve Wynn:
Tell them who MEPA is.
Matt Maddox:
It’s the Massachusetts Environmental Protection Agency.
Steve Wynn:
Okay.
Matt Maddox:
And what they do is they will issue sort of a master permit before you can continue to move forward. That process will likely continue for another six months. As we go through all of our permitting, and as Steve said, hopefully we’ll be breaking ground some time by the end of the year in Everett. So we’re making a lot of progress on that front.
Steve Wynn:
Build it in 2016 and 2017 and hopefully get it open at the end of 2017, or close to it. We had to make some changes in the plan to accommodate as we’ve learned this year, the weather. And so we’ve revisited our project to make sure we had adequate snow melt and the proper disposition of snow when it accumulates so as not to interfere with business. And again remember you can’t just push the snow into the mystic river. That’s against the law. You have to store the water. You have to deal with snow when it melts. And we’ve accommodated all of those things. It’s a new challenge for us. It was very interesting to do. I spent several months with my colleague Derrida Butler with whom I designed these hotels, and we’ve made changes to ensure that even if there’s a blizzard you’ll be able to turn off Alfred Street and be on dry pavement as you go to our port cashers or our garage. I’m very high on the Boston project. And see no reason to say anything else. But timing will depend upon Massachusetts substantial and formidable regulatory hurdles. Here’s a project between $1.5 billion and $2 billion that has 300 odd million dollars. Matt, why don’t you put a fine point to this. Hear this now, this is very interesting. In order to build something that is the largest employer, private employer, in the state of Massachusetts that will contribute more jobs and more revenue to the state than anything they’ve seen in decades. How much money have we spent that is not going into the project itself Matt? Just to get into the position to build?
Matt Maddox:
Just to get into the position to build? So we’ve spent $200 million to date on the project. And we do not plan on breaking ground until the end of the year. I think we probably have another $100 million to go this year, Steve, with remediation and various fees that we know to the Massachusetts gaming commissions. I think we’ll spend $300 million before we break ground.
Steve Wynn:
Fixing streets and the related in the neighboring communities, working on traffic resolution, environmental, and other things, the hurdle is substantial, and that’s what it takes to build a grand hotel in Massachusetts. Welcome to the regulated businesses of America. The [indiscernible] and bureaucratic challenges are [indiscernible] and this doesn’t just apply to our industry. It applies to all businesses. And at one point – investors and citizens can take note of this. As they clamor for more jobs, they clamor for more governmental support, think of the jumps that private enterprise has to make in order to get the job done. It’s daunting. You can quit, retire, or you can keep up the effort, in the hopes that these energies are rewarded at the end of the day by patronage. It requires a bit of both. It just [indiscernible]. But I guess we’re true believers around here, so off we go, onward and upward, excelsior. How satisfying is that to the group on this call? You’ve got to have a sense of humor about this stuff, ladies and gentlemen. I imagine Sheldon’s listening and he’s chuckling at this moment.
Matt Maddox:
Okay. Thanks, everyone. That was good.
Steve Wynn:
Do you have any other – do you have another question? Or does that put – I would point to it. That’s and I don’t know if I think [indiscernible].
Kim Sinatra:
Wish we had a lot of time.
Matt Maddox:
Yes, and we’re – we’re over the hour now so thanks, everyone for calling in.
Steve Wynn:
See you later.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation. This does conclude today’s conference call. And you may now disconnect.
Executives:
Steve Wynn – Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Steve Cootey – Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President and Treasurer John Strzemp – Executive Vice President and Chief Administrative Officer Ian Coughlan – President-Wynn Resorts-Macau Gamal Aziz – President-Wynn Macau, Limited Matt Maddox – President
Analysts:
Joe Greff – J.P. Morgan Shaun Kelley – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Felicia Hendrix – Barclays Capital Carlo Santarelli – Deutsche Bank Steven Kent – Goldman Sachs Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley Harry Curtis – Nomura Robin Farley – UBS Chris Jones - Union Gaming
Operator:
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Wynn Resorts Fourth Quarter 2014 Earnings Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers’ remarks there will be a question-and-answer session [Operator Instructions] I would now turn the call over to Steve Cootey, CFO and Treasurer. Please go ahead sir.
Steve Cootey:
Thank you and good afternoon. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, John Strzemp, Kim Sinatra, Maurice Wooden and myself here in Las Vegas. Gamal Aziz, Ian Coughlan, Frederic Luvisutto, Robert Gansmo, and Frank Cassella dialing in from Wynn Macau. Before we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be making forward-looking statements under the Safe Harbor Federal Securities Law and those statements may or may not come true. And with that I wanted to turn the over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
I hope everybody can hear us today. We’ve issued our earnings, which I don’t think surprised anybody. I know that in Macau everybody follows the margins and the weekly casino numbers. January last year was a month in which we had extremely low hold percentage and this year we had a high hold percentage. So surprisingly we made more money in Macau in January, for example, than we did a year-ago. Our business for the year looked great, but the fourth quarter was tough, since golden week in October. The effects of the changes in China have had a negative effect on all of the top end business, whether that means retail top-end like Rolex and Louis Vuitton or whether we’re talking about the high-end gaming in junkets and the VIP sections. We looked at the fourth quarter and the drop in VIP business, and then we looked at the first month of this year anticipating the kinds of question we will get today, and we ask ourselves, it’s January where there any indications in January of a change. And in terms of the VIP business, no, turn was oft by 40 odd percent and the occupancy was high, because only we only have a 1,000 rooms in Macau and therefore, we still had occupancy it was more of our mass occupancy, a little more than the VIP occupancy, but the hotel was full. Things like Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior and Rolex were off as they were in the fourth quarter during January, even though we made $5 million, or $6 million or $7 million more than we did last year. Amusing January because we know the results of this first month and in January, we were able to make $80 odd million instead of $70 odd million. In Las Vegas, so there was, excuse me, if I can stick with Macau for a moment, there was one change, without any adjustment for whole percentage, but making normal whole percentage comparisons, which we had last January and this January our mass business was up 26%. Slots were off by 16% or 18%, but a lot of our slot business is very top end oriented. So it reflected the kind of diminution of business that we saw at the tables at the high-end. Mass business though was up legitimately 26%. We also are opening in a week or so, the new area of the casino in Macau that is dedicated to VIP business and this has better facilities than anybody seen in that town yet. And we are getting some very good people to occupy that space which also frees up some of our other space for more mass table games. So to that extent I think February is going to see an improvement of some sort and I don’t need to quantify that, but I expect that we will see a better result comparing that to the previous months. In Las Vegas, I mentioned in our third quarter announcement that if we had a legitimate November, December, we’d be the first company to exceed $500 million in profitability probably not only in the history of Las Vegas, but also in America. And in fact, we did do $515 million in EBITDA in Las Vegas, which was encouraging and we’re very happy about that. But China remains a big question mark. We have more questions and answers, thousands of our Macau employees are anticipating promotion and a better life, because of Wynn Palace, a break away property by any measurement, which up until now has been on budget and on time. But we were notified by our builder last night that because of a problem in the timing of our construction labor permits that they thought they were going to miss the Chinese New Year next year as the opening and they would be late with regard to that date that we have used in these calls. In our public releases, we’ve always said that it would be the first half of 2016 and I have, bit more optimistic and said we make Chinese New Year which until last night I thought was true. But if we were to believe the e-mail we got from Leighton construction, they are not going to make Chinese New Year they think they’re going to miss that date. I’m going to explore that little bit more deeply with them, Mike Harvey is on his call, who ran Leighton in Hong Kong and Macau and built our first two hotels as the Senior Executive of Leighton through running our jobs, he switched over to become our own Executive in charge for the Wynn Palace project. So he is in a better position to discuss the Leighton e-mail and its ramifications than I’m at the moment. But I do believe that for all Chinese business men, there is at the moment a bit of uncertainty as to what the future will hold, because so much of everything in China depends upon the policy of the Central Government. We have learned in the last 12 years, the way to behave in China and that is to listen very carefully to what the leadership says and to do our best to be helpful, and to conform with the program as we are their guest. In my history in China starting in 2001, I was very lucky to be instructed by Former President Bush on how to behave there, and that was to be helpful and to understand that culture. And to that extent, I believe that they sort out their problems in an orderly fashion as they see them. And in some cases that impacts like Macau or Hong Kong. There is nothing to be done but to be patient and to be alert and to do your best to be cooperative and to go along with the program. There is no doubt that the existence of Wynn Palace is a major event in the development of entertainment and tourism in Macau. And I believe that the government recognizes that to be true. We did get a 700% increase to our construction labor this week. Although we requested a 1,000, we got 700, and I guess that’s encouraging. Albeit that it was three months late. So timing and government approvals are factor that we have to deal with. Hopefully we’ll be able to keep our promises to our employees that live in Macau and all of the staff that work at these places and that their hopes for a better life will be fulfilled and that our ambitions to grow in Macau will continue to develop. I think that’s pretty much the kinds of comments that are appropriate at this moment. If any of my colleagues on the call would care to add any of these, Gamal Aziz and Ian are there, Linda is there, our main connection to the gaming fraternity there. And as I said Mike Harvey, the construction man is on the call and all of us here on Las Vegas and the parent company are standing by for questions which we’ll take at this time.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff with J.P. Morgan.
Joe Greff:
Hello everybody. Good afternoon. Just looking at your fourth quarter Macau results and then looking at the EBITDA, and then you’re trying to normalize that, was there any adverse hold on the direct the IT side? And then you called out lower then recently experienced hold on the mass side, would you characterize that as having below normal hold there?
John Strzemp:
No, no. We didn’t.
Steve Wynn:
So Joe as you saw in October, November, our market share was in the 8.5% and 9% range that’s the direct result of low hold in the premium mass area. And so that when you look at it, that’s between a $15 million and $20 million EBITDA impact for the fourth quarter which was in the premium mass area on October and November.
Joe Greff:
But nothing onto the IT side on the direct side, Wynn?
Steve Wynn:
No.
Joe Greff:
No okay. As you point you and really shared about 10% on average less table games this fourth quarter versus a year-ago, how do you think that impacted, is there a way you can estimate that on a direct or indirect basis?
Steve Wynn:
Joe I think that what you should know is that our tables are going to increase by about 40 tables after Chinese New Year with the new VIP rooms coming on and the incremental mass tables that will be up to about 485 tables, excluding poker in two to three months. And they are in the right positions in the casino. So it’s not just about number of tables, it’s where they are and we repositioned all the product and we’ll be up to 485 tables in a couple of weeks.
Joe Greff:
Okay and then my follow-up... Excuse me.
Matt Maddox:
It’s a combination of junket tables and mass casino tables. And also to note, we’ve had a lot of construction taking place throughout the fourth quarter. Now we get the West Casino back in its entirety and it’s looking fantastic.
Steve Wynn:
We’re installing furniture today.
Joe Greff:
And then my final question, going to the Las Vegas side of things it looks like promotions was up sizably year-over-year. Can you talk about what drove that and is there sometime one time related to last year’s mix and last year’s hold? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
No we didn’t do anything unusual here in promotions and that might just…
Matt Maddox:
We don’t know what’s you’re looking at Joe, but we didn’t.
Joe Greff:
Okay, I’ll follow-up offline that’s help for me. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun Kelley:
Hi, good afternoon everyone. Steve in your earlier remarks, you mentioned that you did see I believe a 26% increased in the mass business so far in January and we haven’t heard that many kind of raise of why in Macau in recent months. So I was wondering if you could help us break that down a little bit, are you seeing that improvement in premium mass, in grind mass our traffic levels up just kind of may be help us think about that a little bit more.
Steve Wynn:
Ian where is it?
Ian Coughlan:
So it’s coming from the mid-level mass, the high-end mass, very high-end this impacted as VIP, but interestingly the mid-level of mass, we got back a room inventory from some of the junkets that we have moved done during the year, we got rooms from refurbishment. So we’ve been able to provide more of the hotel accommodation for the mid-level mass sector. There is about 7,000 players that we’ve targeted directly in the niche way, we call it a winter campaign and it’s proved very successful for us.
Shaun Kelley:
Great, that’s really helpful Ian. And then I guess my other question would actually be on Boston. So you didn’t provide a budget in the releases. Is that something that you could provide, I think there were some comments that it probably moved up to closer to $1.75 billion? Is that about the right number?
Ian Coughlan:
It’s right in that area $1 billion, $1.75 billion. And we are feeling great about Boston indecently, just great. We love the idea that we’ve got that for diversification. And we’ve never ever been in the position we were the only game in town. We’ve always in my career for the past 40 odd years we have competed and prevailed in the most competitive markets that exist. And we tend to thrive under those circumstances, because as a top-end operator, we tend to creamy part of the market whether it’s the mass or in VIP. And to be in Boston, Massachusetts and in the metropolitan area in Everett and have almost four million people where we’re the only game in town is scintillating. We worked very hard to compete for the right to operate in Massachusetts as you know and it was expensive to do that process and time consuming very and we had a 1,800 pound application when we finally finished. We spent $25 million just to get to the end of the game, in terms of local elections and requirements with related communities, that we had $130 million in infrastructure that we had to agree to and then there was another $100 million in the cost of the license other miscellaneous stuff there. We were in $230 million of our budget already, or promises for that that are separate than apart from the construction on that project budget. We are going to be the one of the top five private employers in the history of the State of Massachusetts. We are going to be responsible for $50 million a month in revenue for this state, probably another $50 million in related revenues to all the surrounding communities. We are going to employ thousands and thousands of people. It’s the largest construction budget in recent history in Massachusetts maybe forever. We’ve got a serious presence there in Massachusetts and we are delighted to have that position. And we finish the design of the hotel and I think its along with the Palace the best work we’ve ever done based upon 40 years of experience with what’s best of all with the same group of executives that have learned from all of our past experiences and projects. And hopefully our next stuff that comes up will reflect the evolution and the enlightenment that we’ve been able to achieve because of those experiences. So speaking for myself, I am delighted with the Boston opportunity. Wynn America now enjoys, I think we’re alone this last few months we cut our investment grade which we’re had from Moody’s now from Standard & Poor's. So our credit rating is the highest in the industry, we’ve financed a $1.25 billion of our Boston project already few months ago at LIBOR plus 175 and we are in real apple pie shape, just as our financing in China was at LIBOR plus 175. $3.850 billion of the project in China was financed non-recourse at LIBOR plus 175 or a total of 3.3% for the $3.85 billion that we raised, again non-recourse. Our Boston financing is non-recourse to the parent in Wynn America which is as I just said I'm proud to say investment grade. So all in all the setup is just right for Massachusetts and as we wind our way through the complexities of the Asian situation our setup is just right to keep our promise to our employees and to the government in China.
ShaunKelley:
Great, thank you very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays Capital.
FeliciaHendrix:
Hi all, Steve, you touched upon this in your prepared remarks regarding how you view doing business in China and being a good corporate citizen there, and along those lines lot of investors have remarked as lately how they’ve noted increased rhetoric of all the Macau operators regarding the diversity of their new casino resort projects. And obviously everyone is taking directives from the central government seriously there really shouldn't be a question there that in your view has a mandate changed? That is your perception of what the government wanted when you started your new project, when you started Wynn Palace, has that changed significantly when you started? And if so does the increased rhetoric on diversification of the Macau economy affect your expectations for the returns of Wynn Palace at all?
Steve Wynn:
That’s a great question, I must say. And I’m sure glad you asked it. I didn’t expect that today. But the answer is at least speaking - I’m getting over cold, - for our Company in each and every case in America leading up to China, we have broken the record for casino revenue at the Mirage, we broke the Caesars pre-existing record for casino revenue than we broke the Mirage record at Bellagio and that we broke the Bellagio record at Wynn in the we broke the Wynn record when we opened Encore. What's interesting though, even though we’ve gone into the $800 million range, never in the history of our company, has our casino revenue met or exceeded our non-casino revenue. That is to say the reputation of this Company, its status today is based upon the fact that we did not focus completely on gaming but recognize that gaming was a result and not a cause that although it was a productive cash register in the building, that the real attraction on the power of the energy of our – vitality of our enterprise, was directly related to its non-casino experiential, entertainment and hospitality aspects. The one thing that led to the spread of new concessions in Macau, the desire of that government after the turnover to the PRC, was to broaden the appeal of Macau and to diversify from purely Bacura to beyond Bacura. Now all of the operators there, all of our competitors have recognized this from day one, not because of a mandate from the government necessarily, but because of their understanding of how the industry survives and prospers, based upon creating experiences for people that they can't get at home. Tourism, the broadest definition of tourism, a positive exciting experience which you can get at home and surely we recognize that a slot machine or a Baccharat an experience you can get anywhere. Every damn slot machine on earth looks like every other one I can’t even tell one manufacturer from another unless I look at the plate on the side. Every roulette table is identical to every other roulette table, no matter what nation you’re in, from one end of the globe to the other. Our company has recognized that more any other company in history. Our non-casino revenue always exceeds our casino revenue. Wynn Palace was built as Bellagio and Wynn and Encore have been built to create a complete tourist destination experience. Only the smallest part of our budget in Macau was dedicated to Baccharat tables, but hundreds of millions, yes billions of dollars up to $4 billion dedicated to entertainment, shopping, food and beverage, spas, incredible hotel room experiences, and most importantly to an extensive in depth training routine and discipline on the area of human resources to guarantee the visitors to Wynn Palace, a unique experience for those people who travel and seek to have unique experience. So when you hear that the central government and the Macau government urged operators to diversify the attractions of their facilities, when they speak to us they’re preaching to the choir. We invented that idea, it has been certainly enhanced and it’s certainly been carried on by companies like Venetian and Melco. No question in Galaxy and all of these facilities being built in Cotai today are remarkable destination resorts. And they were planned and they were executed with enormous amounts of capital, before and during any encouragement by the central government or the Macau government. So this is a development, this development of non-casino is something that was going to happen anyway and has to happened. And I’ve said this once before, I'm going to repeat it again today. If you take Macau, with its destination resorts, which include gaming tables and you take Hinson Island adjacent to Macau, with its additional non-gaming attractions like theme parks, I’d say that Macau Hinson Island area will in the next five years to ten years, become the most dynamic tourist destination location on the planet. And that’s saying something in country that has Orlando, and Ohio and Las Vegas. But boy what’s being done over there is really something. And to a certain extent it’s happening in Shanghai as well. So I hope that responds to your question.
Felicia Hendrix:
No, that was great color, I appreciate that and if I may move on to Las Vegas for a moment. Can you…
Steve Wynn:
One thing last year, $800 odd million in gaming revenue but the total revenue of the place was just shy of $2 billion. That's not a gambling hall. I'm talking about Las Vegas now, just $1 million, $1 billion $1.97 million or something in revenue. Just shy of $2 billion, the gaming was only $800 odd million of it. That will give you idea of – and that’s been, and is going to be. And in China because of the vigorous gaming activity it’s very hard to exceed the gaming with non-gaming facilities, but if you look at the facilities, they are lopsided non-gaming. Okay I'm sorry that ends my answer.
Felicia Hendrix:
No I appreciate that. Can you tell us or one of your colleagues tell us what you’re seeing from the Asian Baccharat customer in Vegas in the quarter in the market Baccharat lines were down 11% year-over-year. I'm just wondering is there something structural, is it economic, is it something we shouldn’t be concerned with just what are you seeing there?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I mean, certainly I'm concerned about the attitudes and trying to handicap the behavior of Chinese, Hong Kong and Chinese players that travel the world and visit various places. Our New Year’s was very vigorous in terms of Malaysia, and Indonesia, and Taiwan, Korea this in January and South Korea in January. The head is in Hong Kong and Mainland China. And the future of it is unknowable at the moment. There are so many moving parts. I don’t have an answer to it on this call. And sometimes, you just have to say you don’t know.
Felicia Hendrix:
Well, I don’t know either so I guess we are even there.
Steve Wynn:
There's a whole bunch of us.
Felicia Hendrix:
Alright, thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli:
Hey, good afternoon. I wanted to touch a little bit on how you guys are thinking about your dividend as well as overall capital as we go forward. I believe leverage today on an LTM basis is around three times clearly there is Cotai spend, but as it pertains to your domestic dividend the $6, how are you guys thinking about balancing that with leverage and obviously retained earnings the Macau?
Steve Wynn:
Well, first of all, let’s understand that Macau this is not 2008, Macau went from sky rocketing to healthy revenues. Let’s keep some perspective to this conversation. Our structure now does not threaten our dividend in the near future. Now when Cotai opens next year hopefully some time next year that there will be an incremental revenue and profitability from it and I can’t see that any other answer would be appropriate looking forward.
Carlo Santarelli:
Yes that’s right.
Steve Wynn:
So I was always hoping the dividend would increase. I haven’t thought that it would decrease. Nor do I think so today. Now Matt, you deal with this, you and Steve Cootey. You can correct me if you like to.
Matt Maddox:
No, you are right.
Steve Wynn:
Our feelings won’t be hurt.
Matt Maddox:
No, you are right. Low average, lots of cash protected the dividend and we have a big property hoping next year.
Carlo Santarelli:
Understood, thank you guys and if I could just ask one follow-up actually two, both on Macau. One was would you guys be able to comment on whether reclassifications played any role or have played any role in some of the moving parts. I think, Matt from your comments the $15 million to $20 million of premium mass EBITDA drag, if I just do some backwards math that’s roughly $20 million a month of less revenue, which kind of explains the delta between what you did in January relative to what you’re doing in the 3Q, is that all that is or was there some other reclassification activity, and then my quick follow-up is would you guys mind just commenting, I got a little bit confused, is the West Casino renovation and all the tables will they be ready for Chinese New Year, or are there different parts of that?
Steve Wynn:
Last one, the answer is yes.
Carlo Santarelli:
Okay.
Steve Wynn:
Everything will be ready in a few days we are finishing everything, in real time in the next six days. Okay go ahead Matt.
Matt Maddox:
And we haven’t been going through these reclassifications scenario you're seeing other operators going thorough. So your mass tables are our mass tables in the same as our VIP.
Carlo Santarelli:
Great, thank you Matt and Steve, I appreciate it.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs.
Steven Kent:
Hi, good afternoon. Maybe if I could just go for a little bit more of a longer-term question, which is what examples are you seeing today in Macau that give you the confidence that when it’s pivoting more and more towards the mass or the high-end mass, away from the junket. So what are you seeing today that gives you the confidence of that the $4 billion and all the things you’re doing are going the right direction. I guess that’s what we are all struggling with. The only example I would use Steve, which I think you live through which was in the late 1990s, when we saw move towards U.S. customers wanting better restaurants, better rooms that gave you the confidence to go and build the Bellagio, so what is it today that gives you the confident that you’re doing the right thing in Macau?
Steve Wynn:
Interesting question, I’m gathering my thoughts. At the end of this consideration, you and I and everybody else on this call, have to ask ourselves, is there a commonality and humanity in terms of aspiration? Is China so different than America? And my answer to that question based upon these 40 odd years of dealing with Asian customers more than anybody else probably in the last 30 years staring with Maurice and talking to them constantly both here and at home in Macau. Is that aspirationally all folks are the same? When they go on vacation, they want to live bigger and better than they can in their normal discipline lives. And that’s what makes destination resorts necessarily special, so that they can fulfill that aspirational dynamic. Nothing that we’ve seen in China has changed my opinion and in fact everything that we’ve experienced in the past twelve years in wonderful Macau has reinforced that. Folks may look differently and talk a different language and their menu maybe different, but in terms of what they want, it’s all the same. And everyplace in the world, we’ve given people what they want in this ever more mobile society the moving middle class of the world, they have responded to the same amputation with similar enthusiasm. Wynn Palace is a gilt edged invitation to that party. And my confidence is based upon 40 years of experience both with American and international players, and the Brazilians and the Mexicans, and the Argentineans and the Columbians, where we have offices, and the Venezuelans, the Taiwanese, the South Koreans, the Japanese and the Chinese folks, when they have some money and the chance to enjoy at, they all want the same thing. And that’s the basis of my confidence and I might add it’s most likely if Sheldon was on the call or Francis Loi, they’d or Lawrence Hover, Jamie Packer they would say the say the same thing. I believe that to be true. And that’s something I’m very hesitant as you know. I’m insecure about the short-term future of the way things rollout in Macau. But I am not insecure about that answer to that question.
Steven Kent:
So, Steve, just because what I guess I was asking for and I mean I know it’s a big ask as like you’re seeing good hotel room demand, you’re seeing people willing to trade up for things in restaurants in hotels in the way they are interacting in retail, in the fourth quarter I guess or in January, that’s what I’m really trying to get out is whether you’re seeing any of that today? I'm not sure if you cold be able to…
Steve Wynn:
It’s confusing.
Steven Kent:
Okay.
Steve Wynn:
It’s confusing. People with money are destabilized at the moment in China. I think that - and you’re seeing that all across mainland China, that people are being cautious. There’s an uncertainty in China these days about the things that are a little foreign to us here. What is expected of them? What’s the relationship of Chinese businessmen to Chinese government officials? Is corruption is widespread as people say it is? I read the South China Morning Post, I talk to people and this campaign against corruption has been a big wakeup call in China. President Xi Jinping has determined that his leadership should eliminate the perception of corruption. And the only way to do that is to root it out and you know there is a huge national campaign to investigate public officials and their behavior. Now it's comforting to note that the liaison officer who represents the central government in Zhuhai that looks over Macau, made a public statement, when I was there last week, that there is little or no evidence of any government officials gambling away their money in Macau. He wasn’t concerned about that that was a positive announcement by him. And I think he felt it necessary to say that but we wait for an announcement from the government with bated breath to understand what their perceptions are of Macau and what the related activities will be as a result of those perceptions. So I think what we’re seeing across China is a retrenchment of spending instincts and how long will that last, I don’t know.
Steven Kent:
Okay, thanks. Thanks to the color.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen of Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen:
Good afternoon. So you mentioned earlier, how there are very good people filling the new junket tables, you’re bring on board ahead of Chinese New Year. We read almost every day about turnover in the junket business. Can you just discuss how you choose the partners that you did how you were dealing with junkets in general and have you changed your direct VIP mix at all in Macau? Thanks.
Gamal Aziz:
The interest we have changed, we’ve eliminated the weaker junket operators, and very much, as if we’re looking in the mirror, we saw safety and security by dealing with only the strongest operators financially. One of them is called Sun City, the other one is called Quang Dung named after the province we that are adjacent to us Quang Dung province the capital of which is Guangzhou. And we’ve given our two new rooms to Quang Dung and to Sun City. And Sun City is the financially, probably the most powerful of the junket operators. We’d never had them in our facility. And we’re welcoming them with a sparkling new really dramatically lovely space and they are enthused about that. And we’ve gone to nine operators from 12 or 13. And reclaim those tables as I mentioned earlier, because we want to business with only, we are very conservative about credit. So we want to business with only the most conservative counter parts in that industry. Is that helpful to you, you got answer?
Thomas Allen:
Yes, very helpful, thank you. And then just as my follow-up. We know as in your results that your promotional spending in Macau as percentage of revenue went from about 5% to 6%. I think I asked that question last quarter about what would happen with the promotional environment and you talked about at a certain point, you have to raise it - raise your promotional spending to kind of fit market environment, but at certain point it’s gets futile. Can you just talk about you kind of where that could go? And then just a final numbers question for anyone in the room, when you talked about first mass market revenue of 26% of your property in January, was that versus December or was that versus January the prior year. Thank you very much.
Gamal Aziz:
January the prior year in just a quick of aspect. Matt, why don’t you deal with that or…
Matt Maddox:
And then promotional type?
Thomas Allen:
Whoever wants to deal with this?
Steve Cootey:
Yes look, again, if you look at our third quarter promotional allowances were $50 million, they were $48 million in the fourth quarter and $48 million year-over-year getting into the mix that it’s gone from 5% to 6% of revenue. I think that’s missing the point. They were flat year-over-year and we’re not seeing any major increase in promotional activity in the industry. Does that help?
Thomas Allen:
That’s all from me, thank you. Yep, thanks, Steve.
Steve Cootey:
Next.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Matt Maddox:
Hi, Harry.
Harry Curtis:
Hi guys. So Steve I wanted to get back to kind of the focus of your target market for Wynn Palace given these policy changes and the uncertainty, has that changed your focus on where your target market is going to be and what your ROIC expectation is? And tied into that is going back two quarters ago you talked about table allocation, it seems to us that the 1,750 remaining are unallocated tables is more prominent than we had thought, and have you amended your view on that topic?
Steve Wynn:
My target market hasn’t changed at all we’re after everybody. It has been the story for 40 odd years. We are looking for everybody, who have the funds and the desire to experience the highest end kind of treatment that they can get. Matt, is there - can you enlarge Harry’s question, answer to him?
Matt Maddox:
Sure, on the table allocation?
Harry Curtis:
Yes.
Steve Wynn:
What we, I thought we dealt with that. We allocate the tables based upon a moving assessment, this weekly. And we reevaluate the activity on our VIP and if we don’t like it, we move it into mass.
Matt Maddox:
And Harry is asking about do you think you'll get your tables for Palace with over 1,750 left.
Steve Wynn:
Well you know, at the end of the day, the government will assign those tables. And they haven’t officially done that yet, and but I might point out that in planning Wynn Palace we were required to submit extensive schedules of how many employees we would need for construction and when we would need them. How many people we would hire from Macau, how many tables we need, everything was included in the submissions that were considered and reviewed by the government extensively for protracted periods of time. And that process was slow, laborious and extended, and then we got our final approval and we commenced construction. The building was designed and the employees and the promises made to the employees were all based upon all of those submissions and those decorations which were then approved and accepted and we were given the green light to go ahead. It seems to me that at the end of the day the government will respect that to talks of caps and all of that thing, all of those sort of things, they occurred after our approvals and after our construction had begun and on the land and so, well, I don’t know what our table total is as we speak today, I have a sense that commonsense and consistency will be the order of the day. I don’t see the government in Macau threatening the security of the employees who live in Macau for our shareholders of our company I just don’t see that, do I sense that in my conversations with the government. So how they allocate those tables is something that’s clearly their own business, but the responsibility for these projects, although we have financed and built them is also their business. And I have confidence that their commonsense and their integrity will – but the end of the day it’d be the last word on the subject. I don’t know how you’d look at it if you change seat with me this afternoon, but that’s my feel about it.
Harry Curtis:
Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
I don’t see the government of Macau scuttling their own industry.
Harry Curtis:
Okay. I appreciate that and then the only other question I had, Steve, would be as you look at Vegas over the next couple of years, what you think is the demand picture looks like particularly as we, as the group business like invention business comes back. Can you talk about your expectations there?
Steve Wynn:
Yes, Maurice is with me. But there is a preemptive moment to that answer. Two projects have been announced directly facing our land. We have over 2,000 feet on this strip and opposing our 2,000 feet are the frontage of the old Stardust and the old Frontier Hotel. The Frontier has been purchased by the interest of James Packer and he has hired people of quality and experience to build and to design and build a facility that is approximately $2 billion. Our KT Lim, an internationally experienced casino developer in Malaysia and Hong Kong and even New York, with the slot machines of Aqueduct, in Singapore and Malaysia and Aqueduct. He has announced a project on the site of the Stardust or the [indiscernible] property again it supposes Encore that is $4 billion. Now, if you say that instead of an empty land and a couple of shell structures, we’re going to have $6 billion worth of construction and eventually in four, five years buildings and employees and guests across The Street with thousands of rooms. That’s worth at least $30 million to $50 million on the bottom line of my company. I love that. And so right away, I see Las Vegas being enhanced going forward by this kind of experienced capital investment. Hopefully, those projects won’t be false starts, they will really happen. And the men who've announced them are people fully capable of keeping the promise. That’s good news for us, in our spot here on the promenade. So my feeling about Las Vegas, it’s still the destination of choice worldwide. Otherwise, why would all the Asians come here as they do on Chinese New Year? Why were they all here on New Year's Eve? They filled - over 2,000 of them filled our ballroom to watch Bruno Mars. And then they shopped and eat and gambled and enjoyed themselves to the Hilton [ph], they have got a great New Years. So nothing's new and I think again so much depends on American domestic political situation. I thought that we were under the gun during the recession with administration policies of more, more of a wet blanket on job formation and economic development and they were constructive, but that was my own personal view. We seem to overcome the administration and the recession and we finally slowly seen to be crawling out of the ditch we were in and maybe things will continue to improve in America. In Las Vegas and at least the Wynn Resorts has comes through it handily. I think the same thing is going to apply in the future.
Harry Curtis:
And so when you look at the kind of year that you come through in Las Vegas as far as room pricing and operating leverage. Do you think that 2015 and 2016 will be just a strong based on kind of the forward bookings that you have?
Steve Wynn:
Well, I’ve raised all the prices on our rooms about 18% August, was in August Maurice?
Maurice Wooden:
Yes, it was August it actually was started in Labor Day weekend.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, I decide to raise the prices. Pricing is always one of the art forms of any business. Pricing blackjack, pricing rooms, pricing everything, it’s always - you don’t want to price yourself out of the market, but you don’t want to miss the opportunity to take an increase, especially do you think you’ve got the kind of demand and reputation that will allow you to do it. We’ve been able to do that so far. The business of business is not about homeruns, it’s about ones and singles. And you build the reputation, you create a platform for a business, they can sustain pricing increases over a long period of time because of consistency. Consistency is probably the most important word in politics and business and human relations. Consistency is the most important thing to the future of Macau. Does the world think the China is consistent, the Macau is consistent, but the businesses and the governments will be consistent in their decisions. Consistency allows for a better future and a better life for people. Inconsistency is destabilizing and frightening and then creates all that uncertainty. We live with a certain amount of it on a daily basis. Surely, we do internationally as a nation with the problems in the Mid-East, surely we do politically in America and surely at the moment we do deal with uncertainty in China. The question becomes if the only constant is change in uncertainty then how agile is the company, how agile is it financially, how agile is it in terms of its human resources. It’s very important for CEOs and Senior Management of people in all companies to recognize that flexibility, agility is everything to survival in the modern world and I think that’s probably almost a universal truth these days. That’s the main thing that I see going forward that we maintain the kind of platform that will allows us to deal with change easily and to be agile. And then to trade on our goodwill and our past performance, we got the concession in Macau because of Bellagio and Mirage. And the Government of China decided that they wanted after the takeover to [indiscernible] appeal of Macau as a worldwide destination travel and tourists destination. They went looking for people that they talk to do it. And I think that we got the concession because of our past performance in Las Vegas. And our job in Macau has been to keep that promise going forward with the capital, we have less invested as much in China as we’ve ever made. All our money is back in there, and in spite of the success we’ve had and that is true a Venetian, as well as Galaxy and Melco, we’re all the same in that regard. Everybody, MGM is doing in this well. So I think that all bodes well for the future in spite of short-term uncertainty.
Harry Curtis:
Thanks for the help guys.
Operator:
We have time for the one final question. Your final question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Steve Wynn:
Hello Robin.
Robin Farley:
Great, Hi how are you? Two questions, one is I don’t know if you have any thoughts on the potential for the smoking ban to be extended to the VIP segment.
Steve Wynn:
Yes, yes, yes the smoking ban will be extended in my view.
Robin Farley:
And any thoughts on kind of what kind of impact that may have?
Steve Wynn:
Well unintended consequences in our case. For reasons entirely unrelated to the smoking ban, all of our facilities have terraces on the lake that we built with the fountains in the gondola in front of Wynn Palace. So virtually a huge amount of our gaming facilities have terraces so you can get up from a table and walk outside the door and be on a patio outdoors looking at the water. That’s not why we did it, in anticipation of not being able to smoking the building, but it turns out that we got a windfall and our plan in our facility. Robin your question about will the smoking ban be extended to be absolute in the building. The answer is yes. I believe that to be true. What was the second part of the question?
Robin Farley:
Well, part of it was just going to be the impact on before Wynn Palace opens on your date to business and whether there's anything you can do to kind of make adjustments, to minimize the impact from that? And then I did have question.
Steve Wynn:
Let’s just take one at a time, in terms of the impact so long as it’s the same for everybody very little impact. So go ahead Robin.
Robin Farley:
So my other question was about margins. When you look at the fourth quarter, I guess more of your business came from Mass was a bigger percent of your business versus VIP from a year ago for some of your total business and we usually think of the margins being so much higher in the Mass business. And just kind of looking at EBITDA margins of the property year-over-year, you’re still down a bit. I guess I wonder if you can talk about maybe some of the cost pressures in the mass business and think that might - you might be able to mitigate as businesses shifting there?
Steve Wynn:
So again cost pressure in the mass business, our margin in the mass areas has been very consistent. Some of the things that you’re picking up are retail revenues are down and when retail revenues are down that goes straight to the bottom line because that’s the least income and very high margin. So for the whole town, everybody is experiencing that. And we’ve always said we think our EBITDA margin given all the various mixes is going to be somewhere in the low 30s and that’s where it’s coming in.
Steve Wynn:
How’s that Robin, is that covered?
Robin Farley:
That is helpful. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Anybody else, we’re going to leave you out. If there is anybody there - another question. That’s a good time to do it. I know there is lot of changes, so even though that was supposed to be the last question, if there is another one I will take it.
Operator:
You do have a question that came in from the line of Chris Jones from Union Gaming.
Chris Jones:
Great, thank you. Just real quickly just following upon the late letter that you discussed. Can you just talk about how far off you are from people labor and perhaps what you’re assuming going forward in terms of what you’d have to get in terms of getting back on schedule of these - in mid 2016 opening date? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
We had two labor requests to finish. It took 7,000 people to fill the building. We had 4,600, 4,700, we needed 2,300, we got 700 were 1,500 was due – 1,500 that 1,000 - that was - request was October, the 700 we got was last week and right around the middle of February, we needed the last 1,500. That request is in. It remains to be seen on how timely that request will be granted, but that would take our work force to 7,000 which is what the latent folks say they needed to finish the building on time and they have vast experience in Hong Kong and Macau and everywhere in Asia. And so when they say 7,000 people, it takes to build six million feet that isn’t wish list, it’s just a simple practical explanation of the requirements. And we’re 1,600 or 1,700 away from that now.
Chris Jones:
Great, thank you.
Steve Wynn:
That’s it I guess. So thank you everybody, I appreciate your attention. Hope that we’ve been responsive and will wait to see what happens in the next 60 or 90 days.
Operator:
Thank you for participating in today’s conference. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Lewis Fanger – VP Matt Maddox – President Steve Wynn- Chairman of the Board and CEO Robert Gansmo – SVP and CFO, Wynn Palace Frank Cassella – SVP and CFO, Wynn Macau Stephen Cootey – SVP, CFO and Treasurer Scott Peterson – SVP and CFO, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Maurice Wooden – President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Gamal Aziz – President for Wynn Macau, Limited
Analysts:
Felicia Hendrix – Barclays Capital Joe Greff – JP Morgan Carlo Santarelli – Deutsche Bank Shaun Kelley – BofA Merrill Lynch Harry Curtis – Nomura Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley Robin Farley – UBS
Operator:
Welcome to the Wynn Resorts Third Quarter 2014 Earnings Call. I’ll now turn the conference over to Mr. Lewis Fanger, Vice President at Wynn Resorts, please go ahead.
Lewis Fanger:
Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Wynn Resorts results third quarter 2014 earnings call. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn, Matt Maddox, John Strump, Stephen Cootey, Maurice Wooden and Scott Peterson here in Las Vegas as well as Gamal Aziz, Ian Coughlan, Frederic Luvisutto, Linda Chen, Robert Gansmo, Frank Cassella dialing in from Wynn Macau and with that said let me turn it over to Matt.
Matt Maddox:
Thanks everyone. Before we get started I just need to remind everybody that we will be making forward-looking statements on this call and those statements may or may not come true. With that I am going to turn it over to Mr. Wynn.
Steve Wynn:
Generally speaking we were happy with the third quarter basically with the last quarter we made up in the slot machines and the general casino in Macau in mass what we – what we lost in VIP and so it seems to me as we look at October that we are definitely you know you got to love Macau we do in this company and we have great, great confidence and gratitude to be involved with the place. But it's always been government sensitive and turmoil in Hong Kong the smoking, the new regulations of smoking, the turmoil in Hong Kong lately in the month of October and of course the policy of the central government in being very, very aggressive about what appeared to be misconduct in corruption of the government has put a lot of the wealthy businessmen in the fox holes. Everybody is being very conservative at this point over there. I think taking the cue from presidency who is a very conservative man and it's had an impact on Macau in October. We have all noticed it and I don't know whether it's a squall or we are in the rainy season how long will it last but we are still very, very bullish on Macau. And as usual in the past when people used to ask us when are you going to get approval to start construction, when will you get your land concession. Things happen in China at their own pace and in their own time and for those of us who are lucky enough to be in business there you have to sit there and go along with the program and adjust to it as best as you can as that's what we do and as far as construction goes, Gamal is on the call if anybody wants to ask him about it but we are on target, we are on budget, we are on time. And Wynn palace is proceeding. We think that it's going to be a very wonderful addition to the market in terms of attracting people to Macau. Like as in the case of our competitors everything that's being built lately is even better than what was built - -what has been built before. The community’s social profile is being lifted. The quality of the products that are being offered in terms of hospitality, non-gaming, food, beverage, entertainment and meeting in conventions all the rest get better and better as that town takes advantage of its competitive superiority. With regard to Las Vegas, we were very happy with this quarter. It's a continuation of what we have seen in the past. All of our metrics have improved for the previous – for the running 12 months, I think our EBITDA was $520 million and if we can hold on during the fourth quarter we ought to be able to get to the five I hope in the calendar year this year. That's pretty much my comments about the status of our business. We did increase if you have noticed, we have increased our regular dividend effective immediately to about 50 a quarter. We want to stay very conservative as you know we have tremendous focus on our balance sheet and we have made our special dividend a dollar and in elected instead to increase the regular dividend by another dollar a year. And finally in Boston, just finished the casino designs the more meticulous and more detailed aspects. We intend to present a product in Massachusetts that is never been seen before in any city or any country including in our own buildings. We have taken an approach to Boston that is dramatically different than any casinos presentation that has been seen in our industry historically. I don't think in my 40 odd years I have been so excited about the project as we are about Boston. Hopefully the election, a week from tonight will confirm that the legislation stands and the voters of Massachusetts will vote no on questions on three. I had an unusual experience of talking to former Congressmen Barney Frank today and congratulating him on his op-ed piece in the Boston Globe in which he explained that people should be allowed to spend money as they see fit. And with that we will take questions.
Operator:
[Operator instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays Capital.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Steve as you stated in your prepared remarks, you mentioned about you are talking about Macau and how it's interesting because there is a political influence there. When you are talking about how some of the VIPs were lying low in the quarter. Given your view of how things were perhaps stabilizing July when you talked to us, last was that – what's surprised you most about the market or were there other things that surprised you in the quarter?
Steve Wynn:
Well it's interesting to see the business community respond the temple of the central government. The businessmen that we talk to in Macau are very sensitive to the mood of the central government. And I guess, I don't know how to say any differently than that I compound that with the disturbances in Hong Kong which is certainly put the central government to the test on one of its most basic perks or prerogative in the modern world with the special administrative region of Hong Kong and that as you know who is going to nominate the candidates or what is the nominating process for candidates for chief executive officer, these are very, very interesting issues and as you undoubtedly observe on the media, there is strong feelings in the community and my guess is that at some point, the matter will be resolved and everything will settle down. The business interruption in Hong Kong are disturbing to the business community and to the community in large in Hong Kong. And I am sure they are disturbing to the central government. It's hard to believe that both sides will remain attractable, but it is after all people for public of China and Hong Kong is part of it. So it would be interesting to watch the play out. The only thing I would share with you is the front row seat to the process. And hope that it plays out in an orderly fashion. We experienced in October a perfect storm. We had the lowest hold percentage for a number of weeks than we have ever experienced in China. When I say is a perfect storm, it's unusual – it's statistical normally to hold 0.9% or something like that in 2.7% or 2.9% gain but on the other hand we have held four on occasions. So -- both ways. Those things straighten themselves out. We don't pay really any attention to that adjusted our whole percentage of puts us in the market share by 10% again but in the 10% we suffer the same fate as the rest of the market when that experience decline. So I don't know surprise is the right word. Disappointment certainly is the right word.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
I try not to use that word so I used surprise. You talked about holds on the VIP side it does look like you held a little bit high on the mass side as well as relative to the past few quarters where we really have been seeing the impact of increased purchases at the cage, how should we look at just since it not – somewhat of a new phenomenal seeing the hold seeing kind of the mid 40% I know -- change this quarter how should we think about a normalized cold for your mass segment.
Steve Wynn:
Great question. I don't have any more clue than you do on this one. I think what you should do is pay attention to the wind. I mean at the end of the day, casino revenue before expenses is measured by how much is left. The purchases of these chips cage represents a moving target and I don't know how to explain it or to normalize it because I have watched it fluctuate as you have. Anyway I don't think it really matters very much really when we get right down to it, I don't think it really matters. It's the revenue. It's that Wynn figure that we are all focused on and that's the one that counts.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Okay. That's helpful and just finally again regarding the market and I will use the word disappointment, do you think any aspect of that is coming from the smoking ban?
Steve Wynn:
No. We think I asked that question of my colleagues Ian is on the call and I think it would be great thing for him to address.
Unidentified Company Representative:
Well we just had a couple of weeks to gauge us and a couple of weeks after golden weeks. So I don't think gets early days. There is no doubt going to be an effect but I think it's the least of our concerns in terms of revenue drop off. We are also still engaged with the different departments of the government in finalizing how our smoking areas and non-smoking areas are divided. It still is discussion that's going and the players have reacted very well to us. The smoking room that we have established in Macau has been very successful we are in the process of establishing an additional smoking room based on location. But overall I wouldn't say that that's had a huge effect on business. There has been some effect but it's been marginal.
Steve Wynn:
Also I think that technology as we go forward is going to play a part in this. Right now the air and the Wynn casino before they stopped the smoking was better than the outside the Wynn casino in the street in terms of general public health and I think that within the casino, whether people are smoking or not in VIP rooms for example we are able with advanced air exchange methodology and technology to keep the employees free of any potential impact to secondary smoke. What is interesting in this conversation is that in conversations with the culinary union that ensures all of the people that work in these casinos will have smoking, there is no evidence whatsoever of any increase in emphysema, lung cancer or any other respiratory complication associated with working in a casino compared to the general public. So the threat represented that smoking in our buildings where we have very advanced air exchange technology maybe it's because everybody knows that the air is cleaner in middle of Las Vegas than anywhere else. I am sorry it's my dog barking in the back room. I beg your pardon. Anyway, the air exchange systems we use keep our casinos smoke free and although that hasn’t been particularly important to the government in their determinations as time goes back I am hoping that will get a very matured and sophisticated look at this problem keeping first and foremost the health of our employees as the principal consideration.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JP Morgan
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
Good afternoon everybody. You did a nice job outperforming the market in Macau on the NAV side. Steve or Ian maybe can you talk a little bit about what you are doing there and do you actually think maybe the clients in VIP are giving you sort of this indirect benefit in that it frees up some rooms give the capacity to go after the premium mass customer and then obviously when Las Vegas stands reported earnings last week, they talked about competition in the mass of the premium mass segment that led to their having some margin degradation on those segment. Can you talk about that on your side as well? Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
First question is there an increase in the mass because of pressure on VIP. I think the answer to that is yes. Is there margin pressure in Macau? Yes. The competition is I have said in previous calls is extremely intense. And if anything inhibits market growth then of course you see this either a loss of market share or a loss of margin. One of those two things has to happen. And we got new facilities coming on in Macau in the next two years including ourselves. We have got capacity increases coming in January in the existing Macau hotel, very dramatic capacity increase. In terms of these Junker rooms we are building too gorgeous VIP areas. And that’s going to allow us to increase our mass a little bit again. So everybody is moving their floors. They are using their tables and their spaces intelligently, trying to protect their margins and to dedicate the table that are available to the most profitable usage. We are doing the same thing. But I am not surprised to hear that there is margin squeeze at the mass market. If we notice that too --
Unidentified Company Representative:
In our mass market area our margins have been constant over the last three quarters. So give or take 100 basis points. They are just in our mass area, premium mass area. We have seen our margins stabilize.
Steve Wynn:
Which is no indication that will continue.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
And when you look back at the three Q mass, was there anything seen interesting from a margin or expense perspective. Obviously 34.5% margin in the environment that are in Macau is a great result, is there anything that absent mass of mix changes that’s not a good level to look at going forward?
Steve Wynn:
Well Joe, our mass and slots made up were in the third quarter but everybody has seen the October results for the market are down over 20% so clearly there is going to be more margin pressure going forward.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
And when you look at the October-to-date results how much mass market growth acceleration is there? That’s a question, a lot of us are wondering right now.
Steve Wynn:
Robert Gansmo, (inaudible) I don't know what our hold is in mass. I mean what our revenue I guess we keep forget about the whole because of the chip issues. But I really hate to describe this quarter based upon three weeks. I am very tentative about answering that one Joe. I just think if I am too preemptive and premature that I give you the wrong lead and I know that you're asking the question for all the right reasons, but I wish I had an answer that I could lean on, and I'm not comfortable on the short strength not with all the other things are going on in Hong Kong and smoking I am confused at the moment, Joe. Joe, that answered that question. Joe, I am confused at the moment.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
You are not alone. Thank you very much.
Unidentified Company Representative:
And the Joe the other point that is obvious October last year was up 25% or 30% in every segment. So the comp is also very difficult.
Steve Wynn:
And we are although rise in Hong Kong, I mean really the government says no more smoking here and there. And so many of our customers and smokers that it is just too many moving parts for an intelligent response I think.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
I think you are in the same spot with your clientele as we are with ourselves.
Operator:
Your next question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Just to turn over to Cotai a little bit and the development there and obviously, it looks like maybe there's an incremental $100 million of spend associated with it. And I didn't see a lot of color on Phase 2. Could you guys kind of walk through how you are thinking about that project today, maybe with the increasing $100 million is, as well as how you are thinking about Phase 2?
Steve Wynn:
Well certain changes had to be made in order to accommodate phase 2. We didn't want to get ahead of ourselves too far with regard to that until the government had responded and given us the appropriate kind of permission but some of it has crept into our Wynn Palace budget. But basically, our budgets are within one percent of what we had expected and I am very happy with the planning and that went into that job and the attention that is being given to Kamal and his team Mike Harvey and everybody in supervising that construction. The government has been cooperating and it's moving very nicely with the latent construction folks who built our other buildings. If I am not being responsive maybe you can redirect your question.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
No, I think that was it. And more or less, I am assuming then, based on your answer, maybe that $100 million is for some piling and foundation work that would be associated with Phase 2?
Steve Wynn:
Carlos, it’s a mathematic. So half of it was actually forecasted pre-opening expense, which we report and other companies do not because of the incremental payroll and other human resource programs that has been going on. And it’s not 100 million is just rounding, so it’s much less than a $100 million.
Unidentified Company Representative:
I think it’s sixty.
Steve Wynn:
That's right, it’s 56 million. The second thing is we protected all of our contingency in our construction budget, so we were going to be able to utilize that going forward if there any other issues and current GMP is at 85% bought out or let. So we are feeling good on the construction site.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Great. That's helpful. And then, if I could, just a follow-up. Obviously, Steve as you noted earlier and I think we have talked about on prior calls that the mass hold percentage at 51% in Macau today. Other than reading into it that your premium mass business obviously is becoming a much bigger component of your overall mass, is there anything that you could say around that premium mass business that you guys have started doing differently to grow that business? It appears as though you are meaningfully bucking the trend of the market, especially in the premium mass.
Steve Wynn:
Here is one of the things that we did. I guess in business and life you have to lucky even better than smart. We made a decision in the building of the palace which was a very important decision. If you're having a lake of 8 acres like Bellagio in front of the hotel, with all kinds of new, advanced water attractions including a Doppelmayr gondola that goes through fountains and into the hotel, you say okay what are we going to do with the lakeside property, which rings a 180 degrees of this link you to do stores, are you going to lobbies, restaurants, or what? When we made a decision, Mr. D. Butler my design partner and I, several years ago and I mean we inhaled and said okay, we're going to put all of our premium VIP business of every description on the water, every one of which every chamber every room from one end of the building to the other will be on the water, looking at the fountains and water show. And every one of them will have bathrooms, food and smoking balconies and our entire hotel is got balconies all around the lake on all of the VIP and mass rooms. This is going to turn out to be a windfall kind of event because folks are going to be able gamble and step outside 8 or 10 feet, look at the water and if they've got a yen and to continue to smoke, they will be able to do so outside. We were very advantaged by the basic plan of the palace, which puts all of the important gambling with terraces all of it, it turns out to be quite fortuitous and I wish I could take credit for having thought of it in advance but it just worked out right. We didn't expect that the government would active as aggressively and as dynamically as they have on the smoking issue but having done so we find ourselves in position that we've accommodated in our new hotel.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Got it, thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from Shaun Kelley with BofA Merrill Lynch.
Shaun Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch:
Good afternoon. We've spent a lot of time talking about the mass business, so I figured out, just switch gears and just ask about VIP. Could you just give us your kind of latest thoughts on what you are hearing from some of your junket partners. There is obviously always discussion in the market about this, but just maybe an update on credit settlement, and your kind of general view on maybe when some of those higher-end VIPs start to take a little bit more risk and step back into the market?
Steve Wynn:
Don’t know. What we are giving them is sympathy, what can we say to them? I mean they have to take the business the way they find it and assess their own risk. Our policy was rather – we got short string on all this stuff and they respected that maybe some of the competitors of length of the string, we haven't had to do that.
Shaun Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch:
Maybe I can ask you this way. Just any sense, obviously, I think everyone -- both the junkets, the casinos, lending -- everyone has probably taken a step back, and to wait and see -- do you think things are getting worse at this moment, Steve? Or do you think it is fairly like things are starting to settle down and now everybody is just wait and see mode.
Steve Wynn:
That's an easy question. It’s worse in October than it was before October. So if you're asking what is the nadir of our experience, it is current.
Shaun Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch:
Okay. That is very helpful. And then the other question I have was just if you could give us a quick kind of preview, your latest thoughts on the West Casino zone renovation? Because you did mention, I think, in some of your remarks that you got some interesting features there that might help out when that opens for -- I believe in January.
Steve Wynn:
It is going to open in January and to we are getting ready to install wall covering and stuff like that, the walls are up and is on schedule. It was a very, very complicated construction job because we had the replumb and do things in the floor and other things like that it's a very dynamic. It’s fanciest high-limit gambling place that we could use in our experience for any customer whether it's our own customer or a junket operator and by being able to have these, I being able to have this whole fabulous end for them. It frees up some of the rest of the place for us to use in other ways. It also allowed us in terms of the general flow of the casino to compress to offer the, to put these junket and these high limit gambling areas right next to MGM and have access from the outside for pedestrians directly into the space without having to navigate the whole floor of the building and all those buildings rather large that it's big convenience issue, and it also allowed us to compress and to improve the general flow of Wynn Macau, so that it would support and enhance the usage of the mass tables. The whole project was well considered, long considered before the team in Macau before Ian and Linda and everybody finally signed off on it, we had many iterations to try and catch up with all of the things we wish we had done when we built the place in the first place. Every one of these resorts, no matter how carefully considered, take on a life of their own after they open and then you find yourself saying wow I didn't know that the people would go there instead of here, I didn't know that would work the way it's working, and then you say well how can we adjust some of that is really hard to get to. You wished it, you could make a change that is clearly beneficial, but it involves interruption of business and some basic reconfiguration. Well, we decided to take that step. After several years of operation in view of the fact that we’re going to compete with ourselves at Wynn palace. We want to make sure that Wynn Loss Vegas held as position as a premier stop for all of the top players and the things that we've done in the past eighteen months to reconfigure the wind casino. I think we all believe, at least, do exactly that. And so we can't wait to see the impact which will show up in the first quarter. I am hoping we will be able to talk about that with you in April.
Shaun Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch:
Thank you very much.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
Question going back to the Palace, on the last call Steve, you talked about taking delivery and I think it was December of ’15 when you commented it's still on time. Do you still expect December 2015 delivery?
Steve Wynn:
Yes we begin to get the spaces turned over to us for stocking the kitchens and cleaning, preparing all the rooms, housekeeping is on the job and then we turned the place in late December and in January into campus and it is our practice to first take the staff and give them the building for themselves for a couple of weeks to practice in which we bring all the systems, we go to all of our backups. We have all of our employees stay in the rooms. We test everything over and over again because we have a very strong opinion that you only have one chance at a grand opening to make that that wonderful initial impression and considering they were going against such wonderful competition at Galaxy and City of Dreams and the Sands Company, with all the products that Sheldon and at Packard and Lawrence Ho and Francis Louis have done. We want to make sure that when we open the Palace that everybody is impressed. So we are going to have rehearsals and that campus that I referred to the training facility, we hopeful take place in January when we had a chance to move in and get the drovers filled with pencils and papers in linen put away, the carpets vacuumed, the freezer boxes and walk-in coolers stocked and we start cooking in the kitchen's and all the chefs tell us that we did a lousy job designing the kitchens, as they always do. We also have adopted a policy of entertainment. We know that in Macau people gamble and shop and eat and what we have said was in that case, let's take the entertainment aspect of the hotel into the restaurants where they surely be really enjoyed. So we have done things we've never done before in restaurants, one particular restaurant is a continuous series of entertainment vignettes, walls, open, and it is a stage and at some very fanciful and unique things take place. In other restaurants other things of that sort, every one of our restaurants has entertainment quotient to it. We have decentralized entertainment in each of the restaurants and of course in the front yard and in other places in the hotel, the lobbies, the entrances, they are all animated, animated expensive entertainment attractions. We are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on entertainment in this facility so that literally the hotel itself is the show.
Harry Curtis – Nomura:
Steve, just as a quick follow-up, in the last quarter, you made a prediction on the number of tables that you thought you got – you would be getting and there is a lot of debate around that and it is probably fairly opaque, but can you give us an update on your level of confidence that you can still get over 550 tables?
Steve Wynn:
Well, the only reason I said that is because I discussed it with the government and I was giving – I was given permission for it. But again in China the final proof is in the – in what happens when you open, and the government has still control of those sorts of things. I don’t have any reason to believe that we would be allowed to build the building that was very carefully reviewed and examined by the government, and then the surprise, I suppose it is possible. But I don’t have any history in Macau that would suggest that that is probable. I know that our competitors all have and offer freely their opinion of what is going to happen to us. But competitors have always done that. I remember that two weeks before we opened Mirage, an unnamed competitor, but as Forbes magazine said to me, an unnamed insider – gaming insiders have said that you can’t make it that your overhead is too high and that the Mirage is going to go broke. Our competitors always seem to have a very, very confident view of what is going to happen to us. I don’t much pay attention to that. I do pay attention to what the government says to us and of course I pay attention to our own history there, and the government has been very steadfast in the way they have handled their relationships with us. They told us what they expect. They have taken their time to approve what we have suggested we want to build. They have examined our programs carefully, made suggestions and when appropriate they have given us the green light to go ahead and build these places. That is the frame of mind I am in. maybe I am a Pollyanna. But I think that I am taking new and practical approach.
Harry Curtis – Nomura:
That does it for me, Steve. Thanks.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley.
Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley:
Hi, on Macau mass-market margins, you talked about the risk to [Indiscernible] revenue flows. I think we all know about in terms of labor and operating cost inflation, but in terms of promotional spending on the VIP side, you have always been able to keep your commission steady when we have seen increases in market, do you think you are into the same on the mass market side [Indiscernible] of premium mass customers?
Steve Wynn:
It is that at the end of the day the critical decision of where to gamble is made by the customer. Local operators and hosts and marketing people whatever their particular titles maybe, they service those customers. So when you – when you are in our position, when you are in our side of this discussion, it is the product that you put out that determines the strength of your competitive posture. The reason that the observation you made is accurate is because the product that we produced was always a little bit better and the service a little bit better, at least in the eyes of the customers than what they could find elsewhere. When we took up the idea of building a hotel in Cotai we recognized the quality of the competition, and that sharpened our senses and made us even more self-critical than we have ever been before. So that we came to the conclusion that we had to re-examine every part of the hotel and everything that we were going to say to the clientele in terms of service, food and beverage, entertainment and of course, user-friendliness in the gaming areas of the building. With the firm belief based upon our own history and in the end that would give us whatever leverage was available under the circumstances. If you were to change places with us I’m sure that you would come to the same conclusion. Now every time that you operate on any premise, reality sets in and the facts expose themselves over a period of time. I have told you how careful we were in Wynn Palace and the great respect we had for our neighbors, and we acted accordingly in conceiving of the hotel. It is the best job we have done I think in my career. I am operating with a group of the most talented, most experienced people that have ever worked in the gaming industry from Gamal Aziz, Linda Chen, and the staff of people that work for them in marketing, to Ian Coughlan’s experience in the hospitality industry and the experience he has gained over the years as the gaming president, all of this has come to bear, and everyone of these people have really focused hard on everything that we are doing. In the long run, it will be the human resources of the leadership of this company and the staff that determine the outcome. And I go to bed every night with the firm conviction of that truth and no other, and then I leave the guesswork to other people. I don’t know if I’m being helpful to you. All I can do is share with you the mentality of our management, and for investors, that is of course the end of the conversation, the only thing that matters.
Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley :
That is helpful. So just I mean slightly shorter term though if we do see some kind of emotional spending more in the near term, do you think that you have to compete there, or do you think the quality of your product before Palace opens is strong enough that you really wouldn’t have to get into that game?
Steve Wynn:
You can do all the things that I just mentioned, but at the end of the day we have to deal with the situation as we find it. And each company tends to give away in terms of promotional allowances to its customers about as much as they can without being self destructive. That number is subject to change from time to time. Incidentally it is subject to change down as well as up. Sometimes people overspend in promotional allowances and it becomes an exercise in futility, in which case you back off or the executives get changed and somebody new comes in to run the place. One of the two things happens. If you find yourself in an advantageous position and you think that by increasing promotional allowances you can have more money to the bottom line even if it means the margin percentage is less, well then you go for that. I know that my friend, Sheldon Adelson, has that kind of mentality with his business. And so margin percentage matters, but what about the money? At the end of the day that is the only thing that matters is if you will excuse the cliché at the end of the day everybody says that. But in the final analysis it is the money, isn’t it, and you’ve got to take the market month by month I think.
Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley :
Thank you, and then just two quick follow-ups on Vegas, one, you reported really strong RevPAR growth of around – up 8% this quarter, can you just talk about forward bookings a little bit, there is obviously the really hard comp and 1Q with ConAg do things look like they are just going to kind of build the strength going from strength to strength or could things slow a little bit?
Steve Wynn:
Well, last month I raised the rates by 18% of our hotels in Las Vegas through online booking agents and to everybody else, and we benefited from it. That is why our RevPAR is up. That is one of the fun things you get to do and you got a better mousetrap. I think it’s probably a poor choice of words. These places are hardly mousetraps at $5 billion -- costs.
Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley :
And Steve the Vegas property EBITDA peaked last cycle around $420 million, you have 75% more rooms today, could you see that kind of increase in terms of the EBITDA that does kind of this cycle, then I’m done, I promise?
Steve Wynn:
We have passed $420 million already. Pardon me?
Frank Cassella:
486 last year.
Steve Wynn:
We did 486 last year, and we are – we have got 520 for the last – for the recent 12 months, 526, I think and I’m hoping that the fourth quarter will get us over 500 for this calendar year. It’ll be – it’ll be a countdown sort of thing in December because all the money comes at the end. But it seems okay, but again we are an international place, and we get a lot of Chinese and Latin business, and things going on in the world affect us a lot in our place. But we will have the most profitable hotel in Las Vegas without a doubt. There is no question about that. Conde Nast Traveler made us the leading hotel last week in Las Vegas, again based upon visitor voting, which was satisfying to us to get that distinction, and so I’m happy about that. You take care of your building, you keep working with your employees to make them more effective, more self-conscious, more aware of their personal responsibility in the building. In the long run, it is a slow – it is the hare and the turtle. It really is a marathon not a sprint and we are enjoying the benefits of our – of being steadfast here.
Thomas Allen – Morgan Stanley :
Great. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
And your last question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Great, thanks. two questions, one is, can you talk a little bit about your own experience with collections to the degree where you do have direct VIP business, I know others have asked about junket collections, so I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your experience with that on the direct VIP, and then unrelated to Macau can you just share any thoughts on your interest in Japan, potentially if Japan doesn’t allow resorts to be opened to locals, how that would affect your interest, thanks?
Steve Wynn:
I will take the last part and I will let Matt do the first part Robin. I don’t know what is going to happen in Japan. I think speculating on Japan at this moment is really, really from our point of view not productive. The situation there is undefined by any measure of close scrutiny, undefined. I do feel that any interest in broadening the ability for people to gamble in Japan is based upon employment, increasing tourism and that sort of thing, and I think that the Japanese government is well enough informed. They can understand that a foreigner owner – a foreigners-only casino would not get that job done for them. I am pretty confident that they would come to that conclusion. And I think they want to keep the money at home if they do this at all. So I don’t think it is going to turn out that way. If it turns out at all, I think probably the more important question is have they got to do it at all Robin, and I don’t think – and I think that is undefined at the moment. With regard to our collections, I will turn that over to Matthew.
Matt Maddox:
So Robin in the third quarter in our direct program turnover was relatively flat with last year. The decline in VIP was largely in the junket area, and our collections in our individual program have been very steady. We haven’t seen a slowdown in that because we remain cautious in who we issue the credit to and we know our customers well.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Are there any other questions?
Operator:
There are no further questions today. Are there any closing remarks?
Steve Wynn:
Matt? Gamal do you have any – Gamal you were quiet on this call, do you have any comments?
Gamal Aziz:
Just that we are on track Steve and we are feeling pretty good and very confident about the opening date, about the interest in employment for our property. We are getting early signs of tremendous talents wanting to be a part of Wynn Palace in the future, so we feel pretty good and very confident about Wynn Palace at this point.
Steve Wynn:
Linda do you want to make – do you want to make any – if you want to make any projections or I think everybody is so curious about the junket operators, you are the closest one in the family to all of that. You want to go out on a limb and make any predictions or you want to stay safe?
Linda Chen:
I don’t want to make any predictions, but I think it is no secret to anyone that the junkets are being cautious and they are being conservative. So no different than that the retail sensitivity for not spending lavishly during a market time like this. So –
Steve Wynn:
Yes, you don’t – yes.
Linda Chen:
Go ahead.
Steve Wynn:
Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior, and folks like that, and Cartier and Chanel are noticing all through China the same thing that we’re talking about today.
Linda Chen:
Yes, but I think they are being very responsive – being conservative and they are also taking this slow time to, if you may, reorganize. So the mode of the market was to expand and expand are limited. Now they are actually consolidating. So no different than any other major industry that when they face a financial difference in thinking, whatever, so, now the time is for them to be relooking at their future, which I actually think it is a very positive outlook if they are being responsible about it.
Steve Wynn:
Well, they are the best thoughts of all of us to the folks on the call, our competitors of course, are listening to all of them I say hi, and wish them well, and we will speak to you again in three months or so. Bye-bye everybody.
Operator:
Thank you for your participation in today’s conference call. You may now disconnect your lines.
Executives:
Lewis Fanger - VP Matt Maddox - President Steve Wynn - Chairman of the Board and CEO Robert Gansmo - SVP and CFO, Wynn Palace Frank Cassella - SVP and CFO, Wynn Macau Stephen Cootey - SVP, CFO and Treasurer Scott Peterson - SVP and CFO, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Maurice Wooden - President, Wynn Las Vegas, LLC Gamal Aziz - President for Wynn Macau, Limited Linda Chen - President, Wynn International Marketing, Ltd
Analysts:
Joe Greff - JP Morgan Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs Harry Curtis - Nomura Robin Farley - UBS Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management
Operator:
Good morning. My name is Stephanie, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 2014 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions). Mr. Lewis Fanger, Vice President at Wynn Resorts, you may begin your conference.
Lewis Fanger:
Good morning and thank you. Joining the call today are Matt Maddox, Kim Sinatra; Steve Cootey; Maurice Wooden; Scott Peterson here in Las Vegas, and we have Steve Wynn and the Macau operating team dialing in from Macau. With that said, I will turn it over to Matt Maddox.
Matt Maddox:
Good morning or evening for everyone in Asia. Before we get started, I just want to remind everybody that we will be making forward-looking statements under the Safe Harbor of Federal Securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. So I am going to go ahead and turn it over to Steve in Macau to get this started.
Steve Wynn:
As usual, the numbers should speak for themselves. We are very happy with our business this past quarter. I am going to engage in a little different approach in a moment, but with regard to the most important thing in this company, the progress of our construction and our $4 billion Wynn Palace hotel in Cotai, I am happy to say we are on budget, we are proceeding apace on schedule, and we are about 18 months out, and still feeling that we will make Chinese New Year of 2016. The most frequently asked question of all of us, whether in United States or in China, is what about Cotai? What about that Chinese market? Are the vacillations of the economy in China changing anything? How do you feel about your prospects of opening the palace? What about cannibalization? What will happen to the peninsula when you open? The very-very common sense rational questions have come at us, and as we get closer, they become more frequent, and I think that one of the things we can do on a conference call like this today, is to give some really serious guidance on how people who have an interest in this company, who are on this call, analysts, investors, and even our competitors, can address that question and come up with a very predictable and rational answer. In order to do that exercise with you today, I am going to look at the past and at the present, as we try and understand the future, and I have decided to use a mechanism to explain our company and our business plan, by comparing ourselves to what I consider to be the most profitable company in gaming, the sands. There are neighbors in Las Vegas, and then our neighbors here in China. And they are a very-very well run company, we admire them, and enjoy being a neighbor. But as is the case so often in gaming, historically and currently, we have a completely different business plan. What are the words that you hear so often in the press and in this industry is the integrated resorts, and that word has been bounced around enough, that we wanted to find that on our own terms. When we say integrated resorts, a very important word to us, we mean that the entire place is held together, the enterprise, by a notion of who our customers are, and how we are going to appeal to them; and then we make sure that every part of the facility is integrated in that concept, in that idea from the facility itself, and especially to the staffing of that facility, the kind of people we look to hire, and retain as executives and employees, and if we are right, and we have integrated properly, then retail, slot machines, food and beverage, room rates, and most of all profitability, will reflect the truth or the validity of that concept that is at the heart of our enterprise. And as I say, the best way to do that, is to compare ourselves to The Sands, the most profitable company in gaming and with operations all over the world, including Macau and Las Vegas. But The Sands has a different approach than we do, and we are going to define ourselves by giving some comparisons, and these comparisons that we are going to give, of our business plan versus The Sands. I think probably shed more light on what investors and analysts can expect about our company, as we go forward in the next 18 months, and launch Wynn Palace. First of all, in Macau, The Sands has ten times as many rooms as we do. They have -- we have 1,000, they have 10,000. They have multiples of machines, multiples of tables, multiples of square footage of retail being operated, and multiples of restaurants. They are twice the EBITDA of our company, a little better than twice, we are approximately half as profitable in Macau as The Sands, with only 10% of the rooms. I am going to ask my colleagues here to give you some of the data that compares the performance of Wynn to its neighbor, and let's start with retail sales. Robert or Frank, you want to take that?
Frank Cassella:
Tenant sales per square foot at Wynn Macau was 17,000 versus Sands Group at 2,400.
Steve Wynn:
And we get to take 145% of that as rent. Let's talk about slot machine.
Robert Gansmo:
Wynn per unit slot was 105,000 versus their 36,000, close to three times theirs.
Steve Wynn:
About three times, about the tables?
Robert Gansmo:
Tables, Wynn per unit, 2.4 million versus their 1.5 million -- 1.5 times theirs.
Steve Wynn:
That ratio, they have 150% of the rooms in Las Vegas. That ratio of 3.5, the yield, compare us to them, we are 3.5 times per unit, that is about the same in Las Vegas, where they have 7,100 rooms and we have 4,700. Our run rate for the past six months through June 30 of Las Vegas is a little over $1.5 billion in EBITDA, $501 million, and July has picked up that rate, both here and there. Let's talk about average room in Macau for a moment.
Frank Cassella:
Our average room rate was 334. Theirs was an average of 210.
Steve Wynn:
210 versus 334, right. So the reason I mentioned that, is that they make a ton of money. But the approach that we take, each of these companies, is quite different one from the other. We have integrated all of our departments, under the notion that we are after a certain customer, that has an awful lot of discretionary income. We understand that customer both in America and in China and everything we do here with our staffing and the preparation of our facilities, is directed at integrating everything for that customer and anticipating their needs. The good news is, is that we have these yields and we are profitable, probably much more so than our size. But the bad news is, is that we are a little slower getting online. In order to integrate these resorts and produce the kind of results that we are describing here today, we have to really grind on every aspect of our buildings, as we build them. So it takes us longer in design development. Our detail is time consuming. I guess the best summary of what we do, and so our EBITDA per room in Las Vegas is what, compared to our neighbors?
Stephen Cootey:
34,000 versus 9,300. 3.6 times.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. And Scott in Las Vegas, how does it look? Is it the same?
Scott Peterson:
Yeah, that was Las Vegas.
Stephen Cootey:
That was Las Vegas Steve.
Frank Cassella:
Oh, Macau EBITDA per room is 304,000 versus 80,000.
Steve Wynn:
304,000 versus 80,000. Now, as I say, The Sands is the most profitable company in gaming, and a company that has my complete admiration. The point I am trying to make here today, is that when you ask what will happen to us, when we double our tables and increase our rooms by 170%, we tend to have a very positive expectation about a project like that, and that allows us safely to spend $4 billion on a facility in Cotai. To summarize, I think everything about our company is rooted in the principle of a story very old, but still relevant, the three little pigs. We build houses of brick, and our houses of brick take a little longer to erect than some of the others. But they're built for the long term, and we are seeing that now. We are seeing it through this day, these last few days of July, both in Nevada and in Macau. So having made that point, I hope it will be helpful in distinguishing our business plan from our competitors, and maybe be a little bit instructive for those people who are trying to understand what will happen, when we open up in 18 months. Primarily, we are making sure, that we do not cannibalize the peninsula. Our occupancy is 98.4%. We have more demand in the premium mass market than we can handle, and we can do this on purpose, because we want to make sure that as 2016 Chinese New Year rolls around in January, 18 months from now, that we will be able to spread our wings and keep flying at the same altitude. I think its time therefore to take questions.
Operator:
(Operator Instructions). Your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JP Morgan. Your line is open.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
Hello all. I have a question on the margins in the calendar second quarter. They were a little bit below what we expected, particularly given the relative growth rates of mass versus VIP. Can you help us explain, were there any other one time issues, any kind of hold in the direct VIP business that had a negative impact on margins, or were there any kind of one time labor expenses that had compression on margins?
Steve Wynn:
Matt or --?
Matt Maddox:
Sure, so Joe, you're right on the labor side, we had $21 million in additional labor expense. As you know, we announced the additional bonus that had not been accrued for in the first quarter in April, and so about $6 million of that $21 million was one time, but that was one thing that affected earnings. Secondly, we did hold lower in the direct program in our life-to-date norm.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
Are you able to quantify that direct low hold impact?
Matt Maddox:
No, I don't want to get into that, we usually don't do that. But I can tell you that that -- we did hold about 100 basis points lower than our norm in the direct program.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
Got it. And just broadly, can you talk about the premium mass growth that you obviously talked about just a few moments ago. How much of that is really a trade-down from the VIP into that premium mass, versus some organic metric on newer mass premium players or existing premium mass players wagering more?
Steve Wynn:
That question is so complicated, I don't know how to answer. Joe, you're up. You seem to be ahead of us on this. We saw a slowdown during June, in some of the junket operators. Interestingly enough, it was the smaller, more thinly capitalized junket operators, but the bigger junket operators did just fine, and then the business, I can tell you, because it’s a public conversation today, that the business in July ticks back up again at the junkets. We are having a good month with our junket operators. So whatever, however choppy it was in June, we are seeing that sort of flatten out again, and do better in July. We are having the best July ever in the history of Las Vegas, and probably the best July in the history of Macau.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
And do you think Vegas is benefiting? Do you think Las Vegas is benefiting from some of the Macau VIP players, maybe foregoing a trip to Macau and heading to Vegas, or are we just sharing something that's very anecdotal at this point?
Steve Wynn:
It's anecdotal at this point Joe. I will ask Matt or Steve Cootey or Frank or Robert or Gamal is sitting here. Gamal is very-very preoccupied with Cotai at the moment, but the guys were playing with numbers, you guys have anything to add to that?
Matt Maddox:
And Maurice is here too, we have been discussing that a lot internally Steve.
Steve Wynn:
I mean, we have the biggest share of Asian and Latin business in Nevada, and we have had, since I built the Mirage and Bellagio, and Wynns, and encore. Nothing has changed in the last 30 years, as far as our position with Asian and Latin players. We have always been able to keep an edge in that are of casino marketing. As long as I can remember, its going on 30 odd years now. Yeah?
Maurice Wooden:
In Las Vegas, we have been fortunate that every segment in the gaming areas, so all international, domestic and slots have been up. And so it really isn't just where we feel its just the contribution of additional Far East customers coming here during that period, its really all segments.
Steve Wynn:
Well there you are. That was Maurice Wooden, Joe. Let's take our next question.
Joe Greff - JP Morgan:
Great. Thank you guys. That's all for me.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
Hi. Good morning and good evening everybody. I was just wondering Steve, I think last quarter, you gave a much better prognosis for kind of your overall outlook for Las Vegas. It seems like that operating environment is continuing to -- could you just give us a little bit more color on what you guys are seeing right now in that business, and then anybody who is online, any color on kind of -- particularly in the summer, Vegas suffers from some seasonal softness, usually due to kind of less convention in group business. So what you guys are seeing on bookings from some of that corporate activity in Vegas would be helpful?
Steve Wynn:
We are knocking -- I mean, we got a couple of nights left. We are pushing $50 million this month in Las Vegas. I never had a $50 million in July in my business career, 40 odd years in gaming. Maurice, I think this is your area.
Maurice Wooden:
So we actually have focused early in the year, looking at the summer, and then obviously we are looking now, toward the end of the year, as far as making sure we have all of our calendars loaded for opportunities. And so summer is one where we dialed in, and we recognized that if we get contribution from all of the different environments, including hospitality, which is the retail, food and beverage, and then on the slot side, as well as the -- again gaming side, we felt like this was an opportunity for us to be able to really take and hopefully accelerate what we were doing earlier in the year. And what we have seen is, is we have continued momentum, and we have been very busy, it has been a very active summer, and we feel like we have a very calendar going forward toward the end of the year, and so we are very optimistic.
Steve Wynn:
We want to be the first company to break through calendar year of over $0.5 billion of profit in Las Vegas, beginning to sound a little bit like Macau; and in order to do that, we have to do $37 million a month for the last six months of the year. Well if we hit $50 million in July, that $30 million -- we'd do that a couple of months, we won't even need December. I am dying to do this. All of us at the company, we are watching this kind of stuff by the day. I mean, we run the company long term, but we have such fun short term. Playing these kind of games and setting these weekly, monthly goals for ourselves. So it helps. But I don't know what other color to give you on this.
Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
I think that's helpful. And I guess, just my other question would be a specific one in Macau. So it looked like some of the retail and other maybe entertainment revenues were a little light, versus what we have seen in the last couple of years. Anything to call out on that, specifically in Macau? Is there anything, the retail shops or anything that was -- that we're seeing; and you guys saw a difference in customer behavior there, with any of the corruption stuff or anything that might have impacted that?
Steve Wynn:
The corruption stuff, the idea that the central government is making a concerted effort to clarify to the citizens of the People's Republic of China that the government is not corrupt, is probably a wonderful thing. I know President Z has made that a centerpiece of this administration. As far as whether we are feeling implications of that in our retail business, that's a very tricky question. I don't know how to answer that. Robert Gansmo, Gamal, any of you guys have a take on that kind of question?
Robert Gansmo:
It was mostly in the watch boutique, it wasn't really across the board. Its specific to a kind of a buyer.
Steve Wynn:
Yeah, we noticed weakness in the watch boutique area. Sometimes if there is a lot of publicity -- I am going to speculate. There is a lot of publicity, that China is going to have a slowdown, or China is having this or China is doing this. People who live in China, businessmen read that, and just like they do it in America, businessmen, they just take their eye off their own business, and they say I better pull back if that's going on. I don't want to be the last one to react, and they behave preemptively [ph], without actually having a reason to do it, other than the publicity. We are getting that feeling here, that everybody sort of overreacted. The fact that the government is behaving in a very responsible and serious steadfast way, is good news for everybody. But it has a different effect on people emotionally. We see that in the United States as well.
Shaun Kelley - Bank of America Merrill Lynch:
No, no, no, I think that's really helpful. Thank you very much.
Operator:
Our next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Hey guys. I just wanted to follow-up on one comment that you made Steve, regarding July. I thought you said you were having a record month as well in Macau. Just given maybe some of the trends that we are seeing in the market through July, I think, most people are speculating, the market is probably down low to mid single digits for the month. But you guys obviously sound like you are having a pretty good go of it. Could you maybe attempt to quantify is that a share gain, and if so on the VIP side or the mass side?
Steve Wynn:
I don't know if it’s a share gain. But we haven't had a July as robust as this one since 2011?
Matt Maddox:
Since 2011. This is going to be our best July, Carlo, and its really across the board. We are stabilizing on the VIP side. We are growing on the mass and slots and its going to be a great July.
Steve Wynn:
And that in spite of the fact, that those guys at Cotai, namely The Sands and Galaxy and the City of Dreams, they have got really fabulous places, and they know how to run. I mean, the competition, I said it last quarter, I am saying again, this is a very-very serious place, the staff at these hotels are all super pro, and we are enjoying this sunny season, here on the peninsula, which everybody was predicting was going to be yesterday's newspaper. Hardly the case, hardly the case. Again, I want to point out, that we have never as a company, in my business career, have never been anywhere, except an intensely competitive market. We thrive on the intensity of the competition that's almost, we do better when the temperature is hotter, as far as competition goes; because all these wonderful hotels, bring all these people to town, and we get a crack at everybody with our program. And so, we are enjoying the competition here.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Understood. Thank you. And just if I could ask one quick follow-up on your table and slot count in Macau? Obviously both were down in the period. Does that have anything to do with, maybe some retrofitting for the smoking, or how should we be looking at the change in counts?
Steve Wynn:
I am glad you mentioned that. We are in construction on the whole south end of the original Wynn casino, and we are adding two really spectacular spaces, that we decided we wanted to introduce into the market for Chinese New Year, one year ahead of Cotai. And so we took and closed half of that casino months ago, and started a very expensive $60 million, am I right Mike? $60 million presentation. In order to make sure that Wynn Macau could hold its head up against even Wynn Palace, we decided to do this really gorgeous thing, which we are going to show everybody for Chinese New Year in January, one year before the Wynn Palace opens up, Wynn Macau is going to get a shot in the arm, that will -- is going to be very important. So we closed -- we are doing these numbers, with a big chunk of our casino shutdown.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank:
Thank you everybody.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Hi thank you. Good morning, good evening. Matt, just starting off with just a point of clarification. So it seems like there will be an incremental bonus expense of about $15 million per quarter on a going forward basis?
Matt Maddox:
No, no, no, no. The second quarter we had to catch-up for the first quarter. On a going forward, its between $5 million to $7 million per quarter.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Okay, thank you.
Matt Maddox:
And that would be rolling in, in 2015.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Right. Okay. And then, just also, on the [indiscernible] at your properties there now, it looks like the promotional expense run rate is increase on the premium outside of your business. I was just wondering if you could help us quantify for that, or how to think about that?
Matt Maddox:
What I can say on that Felicia, is that, our margins have remained very steady in our mass and slots. So I wouldn't want to get into how much money we are spending to generate these type of returns, but our margins have held in both mass and slot business in Macau.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
That's very helpful, thank you. And Gamal, my final question is on labor, particularly with the dealers, and as you plan for the opening of Wynn Palace; just wondering, can you talk a bit about how you are thinking about staffing the gaming tables, and how you're going to manage and potentially mitigate the labor inflation that we might see there?
Gamal Aziz:
I think what Mr. Wynn has done in February by having an increased bonus and offering shares has made this property and this company far more popular than any of our competition; and we have seen a drop in the turnover in number of employees that leave the company. I think we will have a much better opportunity finding that labor as we open. So I think we will be in pretty good shape when it comes to that.
Steve Wynn:
But you know all the competition or on the call, everybody knows what everybody is doing, there is no secrets here. We are all friends. We are all watching each other, and everybody is going to try and take their best shot, to make sure they are properly staffed. Okay. Let's say that's true. It's also true today. Everybody is perfectly staffed. No one short of employees. Everybody has got dealers and waitresses and cooks and housekeeping, and we all got them from the same place. So what happened? We got five stars in all of our hotels. Our service levels are integrated with our business plan. What do you think is going to happen 18 months from now? Exactly the same thing. That's the reason I went through that whole dissertation, when we started the call. Sure, there is always challenges. There is challenges for Galaxy, there is challenges for City of Dreams at SJM, and there's certainly challenges for Venetian and The Sands. But the fact of the matter is, the way we meet those challenges, and the results that our business plans produce are clearly visible to you, and have been for the past 10 years or more. So the past and the present at the clearest indication of where its going. The economy, the competitive market always moves here and there, up and down, sideways, left and right, but it’s the program, and the management philosophies, the business plans at their core that define these companies, and tell you where they are going to go.
Felicia Hendrix - Barclays Capital:
Okay. Thanks.
Steve Wynn:
Yeah, thanks Felicia.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs:
Hi, good afternoon. Two questions; first, maybe we miscalculated something, but it looks like the number of slot machines declined in the Macau, and I just was wondering what the strategy --
Steve Wynn:
It’s a remodel, Steve.
Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs:
Okay, perfect. So that will move back up, once that remodel is done?
Steve Wynn:
I don't know. I am not quite sure. We find that we can win the money with less equipment in Las Vegas. We are winning more money, and I think we dropped off 10% or 15% of our machines, because we changed the presentation of our floor. We didn't want to look like everybody else. Its not about how many machines, its who's playing them.
Gamal Aziz:
Steve, this is Gamal. We basically, with the drop in the number of units, our slot per unit per day has increased substantially as you see in the numbers. So its really about those 20% of the customers, giving us 80% of our profit in slots. That's our focus, and that's why we have been incredibly successful in the last six or nine months, focusing on those customers.
Steve Wynn:
Does that answer your question Steve?
Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs:
Yeah that actually goes to sort of the second part of the question, which is just the way you have managed your customer base; because Steve as you said in the beginning, you're going to have more capacity yet by every metric that you described, you get more profit, more revenue per unit. As you open up the Palace, is there -- I know you feel confident that you will be able to maintain some of those numbers, but why won't there be some dilution? Do you have some sense to some of those metrics, that there is even more depth behind that, meaning that there are even more affluent high end customers who want the Wynn experience, who will pay similar numbers to what you're achieving in the existing -- in the existing property?
Steve Wynn:
Perfect question, and we can answer that question; not because I say so, let's just look at it from an entirely different perspective. We had revenues per unit and EBITDA per room and all that other metric stuff, three years ago, and we looked cool compared to the competitors, and you know, we are grateful for that. Then what happened? The Sands, the Galaxy, the Melco guys, SJM built brand new hotels, we didn't. They built gorgeous new hotels. They have put in beautiful VIP rooms. They dealt with the same junket operators we did. They put out the promotional allowances to the slots. They built magnificent suites. They did everything -- it appears we do. And what happened to us? Absolutely nothing. Now if we can hold our head up against that kind of competition, I am not saying that demand is perfectly elastic for any company, but I am saying, that there is an awful lot of evidence on the table to indicate that demand for our product may be a hell of a lot more elastic than you might think. And I say that, not out of bravado, or because I am trying to make myself believe, I am just asking anybody who is on this call, including my dinner pal, Sheldon Adelson. What are we looking at? What determines the future? The situation today, nobody can say that the demand is perfectly elastic. But what I am saying is, if you're wondering what's going to happen to us in 2016, take a look at what's happening right now, when we are up against the toughest guys in the world, who really know what to do. The facilities at the Venetian are par excellence. The facilities at the Galaxy and at Melco, everybody has really come out of the box, A number one, first class. Its something else that's going on here. Its about a program, a sense of [indiscernible] that starts with the employees and goes from top to bottom. We have been doing it a long time. probably -- that's another advantage we have. At this point in my life, I guess I am the oldest operator in terms of time on the job of the gang of bosses, that include Francis Loi and Lawrence Ho and Sheldon and myself. I think I have been at it, not as long as Stanley Ho, but probably longer than the guys who work for Stanley. So we've had a chance to make virtually every mistake you can make and we are making new ones now. But we have got our own game now, and we don't play the same game that the other guys do, and that's one of the reasons why Macau is such a healthy place today, because there is a choice between the Venetian, the Galaxy, a City of Dreams, and a Wynn kind of place, and that menu, that choice is at the heart of the longevity of Las Vegas against Indian Casinos in California. Remember when they said, if they have real gambling in California, you can roll up the streets in Las Vegas? Not quite. Not quite. We adjust, but our program, and our sense of ourselves has not changed. So again, I am not guaranteeing what the results are going to be in Cotai, but I am telling you why we feel sort of comfortable in this environment, and we are feeling very positive about where its going to go. We love Macau, we love the environment of China. Its steadfast; its steady; its predictable, unlike some other places that I could mention.
Steven Kent - Goldman Sachs:
Okay. Thank you.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura. Your line is open.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
Hey good morning. Just a follow-up on Macau. Steve, you mentioned that your business has stabilized. Your volume in the first quarter was quite a bit higher than the second quarter, the question is, at what level has it stabilized? What I am wondering is, has there been a behavior of VIP customers that may take a longer period of time to come back, particularly if they are defensive about the Chinese Government's Anti-Corruption Campaign?
Steve Wynn:
Matt, you've got a feeling about that? You'd like to think about --
Matt Maddox:
You know, Harry, July is up from June, but as you can see in the numbers that the government puts out every week. It is still down, in VIP year-over-year in single digits. So we have seen it stabilize and come up, from what we think is the bottom in June, and every time we try to predict, how quickly it will recover in the past, it has always recovered much faster than we predict. So what we can tell you is, its better than it was in June, and it feels stable.
Steve Wynn:
Harry, Gamal Aziz, in anticipation of this call, walked into the office about 30 minutes ago, and I am going to ask him to repeat what he read to me.
Gamal Aziz:
Harry, this was the exact question posed to Steve a couple of years ago.
Steve Wynn:
June of 2012.
Gamal Aziz:
June of 2012, about the demise of the VIP business, and his answer was that, you know, there has been an increase in the capacity of VIPs and I am not sure if the picture is clear of a marked slowdown. The market is still growing, and I think they will continue to grow. I think you've seen the VIP business growing since 2012. It may take a pause of some sort, but we don't think that it’s the end of things, as we have heard it so many times by now. We have seen a July stabilization after a June drop, and whether it comes back in the next 60 or 90 days, or it gets like the first quarter in the next 90 days, we don't know. But we are sensing a stabilization and a tremendous growth in the other segments in the market, mainly the premium mass and the slots.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
And as you talk to your direct customers, what is their level of confidence in the future? Have you had those conversations?
Steve Wynn:
It does. Linda's here. She just came back from Beijing. Linda Chen.
Linda Chen:
So when you say stabilize, I think its only up reasonably for all the high end customers to take a pause, and their recreational spending, that -- its like, basically you feel the economy, where the world is going to go for a slower growth, then you're not going to spend so much -- as much money on recreation or entertainment. And then -- but I don't think that's actually probably good stable growth, because they are here for the long term, they are not here to just play and make a quick return. So they are actually looking at gaming as part of their -- if you may, normal long term recreational entertainment budget. I think we are actually seeing more of new customers that have never been to Macau, which is a positive, that there is actually a difference of profile, demographics of newer mass customers that are coming in, that we have never seen before. So I think for the long term, that doesn't mean the markets will have a lot more potential to grow.
Steve Wynn:
There is a wonderful SAT word for the college board tests, I remember, inexorable. I love that word. Inexorable is a word that I think of in terms of the growth of the Chinese economy, inexorable, which is a kind of thing you might see on Bill O'Reilly's word of the night. It means unstoppable. Growth is going to go from 10 to 6, but the base is so much bigger.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
Steve, I am going to give you the week's award for the Gary Loveman prize for vocabulary. Shifting gears to --
Steve Wynn:
I am not sure I like Gary Loveman. Its all the same to you. But I'd like to have the Sheldon Adelson. If I have a choice, I will take the Sheldon Adelson prize.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
So, getting back to Vegas real quick, your ADR in Vegas has now come back to around $25 or so, its still $25 below the peak in 2007, which isn't all that much. Yet, in an EBITDA per room, from that perspective, you are still quite a bit below the pace of where you were back in 2007, and I am just trying to understand what the primary drives of that is; is it a mix of customers, is it gaming, which is it?
Steve Wynn:
First of all, if I knew then what we found out after we opened it, Sheldon wouldn't have built Palazzo. I wouldn't have built Encore. And I am sure that MGM wouldn't have done City Center. None of us, we all start these projects three, four years in advance of the recession. Remember, we opened Encore on December 22nd of 2008, can you think of a more perfect negative moment to open 2,000 rooms that cost $2.25 billion. And if we hadn't built those rooms, we might be making pretty close the same amount of money, and we would owe $2 billion less. But the hindsight's perfect, but at this point, its all history. What we are seeing now is, where are we going, what's the health of the market? Are we building on our own base? Are we headed in the right direction? Are we comfortable about our investment in China? Do we feel good about Nevada? The answer to those questions, speaking for myself and my colleagues on this call, is yes, we are comfortable about our investment in Las Vegas, we are happy with Las Vegas. We are feeling very up about it. We are enjoying the privilege of being part of the Macau scene, and looking forward to the future. When you start splitting hairs about 2007, look, we made $427 with 2,700 rooms, in a place where everybody said you can't make money at the Desert Inn. Well, that didn't turn out to be accurate. We made more money than everybody on the strip, including Bellagio, with 2,700 rooms, where the Desert Inn was, supposedly at the wrong end of the strip. Another interesting point. Development makes the location, the location doesn't make the development, unless you happen to be in Las Vegas, or you happen to be in the city of Macau. So I mean, when looking back at 2007, it was delicious, and may be that's -- it was what we saw coming in 2007, that allowed us to start that to have building in 2005, that turns out, was a capacity we didn't need. But we didn't need the Bellagio capacity, we didn't need City Center capacity, if I can speak for my friends in the other companies. But what the heck, I mean, it takes a long time to get these places up and running.
Matt Maddox:
And Harry, if you look at the history of domestic gaming revenues, its clearly the domestic gaming that people overestimated. So domestic gaming has not grown from 2007 to today, like everyone thought. But the other segments have done quite well.
Harry Curtis - Nomura:
All right. Very good. Thanks a lot.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS. Your line is open.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Thanks. As you yield manage the Macau floor, can you give us a little color on the breakdown of the VIP versus the mass tables?
Steve Wynn:
Who wants to take that? Frank? Frank Cassella, the Chief Financial Officer of Wynn Macau?
Frank Cassella:
Our VIP Wynn per unit per day is 32,000; mass Wynn per unit is 17,000.
Steve Wynn:
Robin, Frank Cassella's father, Danny Cassella, was my Chief Financial Officer and opened the Mirage with me, in 1989, on November 22nd. I am sorry, go ahead, Frank.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Nice little bit of history. I was also looking for just kind of the mix on your floor, as you are kind of yield managing your shift tables between VIP and mass, where that was in Q2?
Steve Wynn:
Why do you care about that? We yield manage that Robin. If we said okay, some of the junket operators were a little wobbly from time-to-time, we add them, we subtract them, then we put the tables back into the mass. If we think we can make more money. It’s the kind of thing that we are yield rate managing these tables on a monthly basis. We acknowledge that we do it, so does Sheldon, so does Lawrence, so does Francis, and so does Ambrose So and Louis Ng across the street. We all do it. What color would you like on that? I want to respond, we want to be accurate.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Its just usually a breakdown that you provide in the release in some form, you usually talk about the number of tables. So maybe you are not going to provide that going forward?
Matt Maddox:
Yeah Robin, that's right. It was 263 VIP tables, 191 mass tables, for 455, and that count is down, because of all the construction that we have going on, and some changeovers in [indiscernible] from VIP to mass.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Okay, great. Thank you. And then --
Steve Wynn:
Robin, is that important? Just for my own benefit, you keep very careful track of that?
Robin Farley - UBS:
Its something we look at in the market looking for trends with VIP versus mass. We look at market share among the operators in the different segments. I think that's what investors generally look at.
Steve Wynn:
I see. Okay.
Robin Farley - UBS:
My other question is, on Cotai, you talked about how you're going to keep competing, as Cotai opens. I understand the overall picture. I am just wondering, when you look at the opening, and there are a number of properties with different opening dates, within a quarter or two of your project opening? It sounds as if everything is on track with your project opening. Do you care whether other projects open in the same quarter? Do you think that will kind of impact?
Steve Wynn:
Would it make any difference if I did? I have no control over them. I was at Cotai when I landed the other day, and activity at MGM and the Parisien was either non-existent or light, for whatever reason. So I don't know what the latest scoop is on my colleagues, my friend's projects. When has Parisien said it was going to open, when will it open. I am sure if you ask Venetian, they will tell you, but those dates are what they are and when resorts, personnel, have no control over it, we just have to deal with it. Whenever those dates come due, and the market and the tours and these projects come of age, then they will come online, and hopefully, they will all just have wonderful beginnings. But we don't have much -- because we have no control over it, we don't give any thought about it.
Robin Farley - UBS:
I guess you used the phrase, you deal with it when it happens. I guess, is there anything different about your opening, or what you do if there are two projects opening in that quarter, or [indiscernible] open?
Steve Wynn:
No, no, what we do is we finish the building. Hopefully we have the proper time, in which to turn it into a campus for two weeks or more, where we run it just for ourselves, and the employees stay in the rooms and the employees eat in the restaurants, and we breakdown the computers and we try all of our backup systems, and we just drive around the place for 14 or 20 days if we get the chance. So they only open the doors to the public, we are ready for them; and we can deliver a service level that isn't scratchy and erratic, and we are not apologizing, because this doesn't work or that didn't work. We try and build into our budget, enough money to run the place at full payroll, for at least two weeks or more, so that we take the punishment, not our guests. And we are going to do that, no matter who's opening, when or what. The most important thing, first impressions matter, is to get the place off on the right foot. So that the service levels match the elegance of the carpet and the marble and the onyx and all the other stuff that we put into it. So that program is fixed in our mind, and it doesn't relate at all to what the other guys do.
Robin Farley - UBS:
Okay, great. Thank you.
Steve Wynn:
Sure.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Tom Marsico with Marsico Capital Management. Your line is open.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
Good evening Steve, how are you doing?
Steve Wynn:
Just great Tom. Dealing with the jetlag on this side.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
I am dealing with patience on this side. We started this investment, years ago at $13, so I am going to reminisce a little bit. I think the stock is right now at $211 or so. I don't know how many dividends we have received. We have experienced the greatest recession since 1945, and there is questions about the capacity that's being added at Cotai, in relationship to the fastest growing economy in the world, and the largest [indiscernible] market being Asia in the world. You have companies that are becoming public here in the next several months in China, that will have market valuations in excess of over $100 billion. So the wealth is being created, I don't think that most investors have seen the wealth creation that's going on in Asia, that's being experienced right now. So given the environment of the greatest recession, there is this continuous concern that the amount of capacity that was built in Las Vegas with the lag times that you would have suggested, is happening with the new hotels going on Cotai? And if you'd look at the growth of the economy in China, compared to what we have been experiencing here in the United States for the last several years, I think that's where the biggest concern becomes. But if you go deeper into the numbers and look at the vibrancy of that Asian economy. I think that's where investors are missing the opportunity or understanding how large Cotai can be? And I think that they are also missing the fact, something that you have touched on, but maybe not directly is that, as more of these hotels are built, people will be attracted to come to the hotels. But what the main attraction is in town, is when they see, as you would refer to it, your joint. Your joint has always filled up, because of the people you hire, the way you execute, and the type of products and services that you offer your customers. So with that comment, I think that the opportunity is execution on the Palace. You say you are on time opening up in 18 months. I think you also have a great opportunity as customers become more discreet and move from the VIP segment into the mass segment, the segment that you think make a lot more money in on a margin basis. And so, maybe you could just talk a little bit about how you're trying to improve that premium mass experience versus what the VIP's see in the services, and the type of experience that they have, compared to your premium mass customer?
Steve Wynn:
Thank you for the kind comments, Tom, it has been a pleasure having you as an investor all this time. I remember, when we started the road show, and I came at your office, and it was October of 2002, and everybody pulled their deals off the street, and we were up against it. And you looked at me and said, never mind the speech, we will take 5% of the deal. It was a wonderful moment, and thanks for the kind words, and I will address your request.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
It has not been a shabby investment Steve, and I think that we were in for 10% of the deal.
Steve Wynn:
Okay. So about the premium mass market; every time someone asks an important and complex question, that could be taken any number of ways, my philosophy, I think process is the answer to most problems. I wish they understood that in Washington, but process. Back up to something you're certain of, and then, come forward, once you've got yourself grounded in a simple, come forward again and deal with the complex question. Okay, what's the most important thing in our business, guest experience? Who takes care of guest experience, the staff of employees. Those are the two central truths, on which every decision we make are based. We ground ourselves with those two truths, that if we have good guest experience, people will come back again, tell their friends, and maybe pay us more money in the future. And we'd say that that guest experience is not about the carpet or the onyx and all that stuff, its 90% about the people, because only people make people happy. So, when we are designing the hotel, and we want to get the premium mass, we are saying, what's the premium mass, besides the term that Wall Street people, when they talk about the gaming industry? Its that person with more money, who likes to come on vacation, gamble, eat and shop. But this person has enough money to stay at the best hotel, or whatever they think is the best hotel. The branding, the cache matters, and how do they find out about it? From personal experience, but before that, word of mouth. The truth prevails in creating a brand. Not the advertising, not the baloney that CEOs like me lay out, but the truth prevails. So what we do, in order to get the premiums mass market, is we build a better product, and the way you build a better product, is to make every single minute detail that goes into the whole, better from scratch, we are talking about the width of the hallways, the balancing of the lighting, the level of sound, the color coordination of the place, if we are talking about the building. Every single thing is better, and we are banking on -- and here is the key to it. Guys like myself and the people that I am in business with, we have been attracted to each other, because we all believe that the public gets it, that people do know the difference between pretty and ugly, clean and dirty, that the public has an innate sense of discretion. Now there is exceptions. There are people without any damn taste in the world, there are people who are very-very discriminating and see every little detail. But basically this company, is built on a foundation that says the public knows the difference, and if we give them that difference, they will reward us with their patronage. That's the whole secret of Wynn Resorts. Nothing else. It isn't more complicated than that, and that's why we grind on the details. That's why we take longer to build our voices, that's why we end up outperforming the competition. We've never made a secret of it. Hell, the guys that have worked for MGM, won't work for me. What happened to the culture? The end if I know. But our culture is bad [ph] and simple, and that's how we will get more of the mass market. And damn it, we will get more of the mass market Tom, as sure as my name is Steve. Not because I say so, but because we are dedicated to a business plan and a common sense program that has never disappointed us. We think plain and simple, and then we act on it, based upon those simple truths, that if we give a better guest experience through our employees, that we will be rewarded with the patronage of the most affluent, the most discriminated, the people who really know the difference, and those incidentally are the ones that want better food, that shop in better stores, that want a fancier bedroom to sleep in, that want a bigger TV to watch, and that want to be treated by employees, who make a personal connection with them. And that's our story, and that's all we ever knew, and that's the basis of every decision we have ever made, as a family, as a group. Gamal, am I talking for you? I mean, I have done a lot of talking here today.
Gamal Aziz:
Absolutely.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
Steve. I think that's one of the reasons, as we got through the recession, and I was comparing the recession, the great recession back in the 30s, I used 1945, as the World War 2, and that was back in the 30s, you had the greatest recession/depression. But the point I was trying to make is, the type of customer that you attract, is the type of customer that is able to ride out difficult economic times, and that they do come back, and they come back just as the Four Season clients' comes back, because they have a greater amount of propensity to spend, because you don't have to spend the money that they make from their jobs, just on the essentials. They have that extra dollar to spend on entertainment and travel, and the amount of travel that we are seeing in Asia and the growth of the market is unprecedented for most investors that have been in the market, let's say, over the last 20 years or so. We have never seen anything like China.
Steve Wynn:
Issy Sharp, you hit the nail on the head.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
Issy Sharp, exactly.
Steve Wynn:
Issy had it, and we look at Issy, and I did, as a younger guy and said, oh boy, you know who else had it, Bill O'Hara, when he was alive. He didn't have the fanciest places, but he had a sense of [indiscernible] and esprit de corps. When I went to Reno and stayed in his hotel, the employees lit me up. Its not the building so much as it is the people, and O'Hara had it and Issy Sharp's got it. Those things have changed over years unfortunately.
Tom Marsico - Marsico Capital Management:
Thanks for all your hard work. It’s a great quarter.
Steve Wynn:
Nice conversation, Tom. Thanks for giving me the chance. We will take another question. We are not in any hurry, we got plenty of time.
Lewis Fanger:
Actually Steve, that's the end of the time. We are at right over an hour. So Tom closed our call, it was the last question.
Steve Wynn:
It was pure fun. Anyway, we will see what happens 90 days from now. 90 days from now we will also have a decision in Boston, they say on September 12. They are going to decide, and we are waiting to see how that turns out. Thanks everybody. See you next time. Thanks Matt. See you all.
Operator:
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Executives:
Lewis Fanger - Vice President Matthew O. Maddox - President, Chief Financial Officer, Principal Accounting Officer and Treasurer Stephen A. Wynn - Founder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, Member of Executive Committee, Chairman of Wynn Macau Limited and Chief Executive Officer of Wynn Macau Limited Maurice Wooden - Principal Executive Officer and President Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz - President and Executive Director Ian Michael Coughlan - President of Wynn Macau
Analysts:
Joseph Greff - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division Shaun C. Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division Jon T. Oh - CLSA Limited, Research Division Steven E. Kent - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities Co. Ltd., Research Division
Operator:
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2014 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to Lewis Fanger, Vice President of Wynn Resorts. You may begin.
Lewis Fanger:
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Wynn Resorts First Quarter 2014 Earnings Call. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Wynn; Matt Maddox; John Strzemp; Kim Sinatra; Steve Cootey; Maurice Wooden; and Scott Peterson here in Las Vegas, as well as Gamal Aziz; Ian Coughlan; Frederic Luvisutto; Robert Gansmo; and Frank Cassella, dialing in from Wynn Macau. With that said, I would like to turn the call over to Matt.
Matthew O. Maddox:
Sure. Before we get started, I just need to remind everybody, we will be making forward-looking statements under the Safe Harbor Federal Securities law, and those statements may not come true. Steve?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Okay, so you've got the numbers. We're very happy with the performance of the company and as we start this year. We're going to -- today, perhaps a little differently than we have done in the past. I'm going to make a few general statements, but there seems to be a lot of appropriate interest in numbers and metrics at the moment in China, as well as Las Vegas because there's a feeling that change is in the air or that things are happening that are worth discussing in deeper detail. I feel that today a little more than I have in other quarters. So my colleagues and I are going to take a moment or 2 and deal with some of those metrics. But we had a healthy increase in Macau in our business. We had a great year last year, we're up 16% in the first quarter. There's some specifics about some of the data that's available, and there are changes that take place every month. And in the mass casino, we're going to address that in just a moment. But our -- in China, our VIP business is holding strong. We've seen no change. We're very happy with what's going on in Las Vegas. Construction in Cotai, I will deal with -- is on schedule. We've got 6 quarters before the place is open, and those numbers hit these conference calls after that. So I think what we're going to do today is we're going to talk first about Las Vegas and some of the things that have happened in the first quarter. And I'll let -- Maurice, I'll let you talk about that.
Maurice Wooden:
Thanks, Steve. So in Las Vegas, we actually felt the growth quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year in the first quarter from '13 to '14. If you look at the hotel, the occupancy was up. REVPAR was up. And so occupancy was up approximately 12.6%, Steve.
Stephen A. Wynn:
The REVPAR?
Maurice Wooden:
And the RevPAR was up 12.7%. And so our average daily rate was $275, and our REVPAR was $241.
Stephen A. Wynn:
And that made us the most profitable hotel in Nevada. Correct?
Maurice Wooden:
Slots had a significant year-over-year increase as well. If you look at it, we actually had some reduction of some of the units on the floor to create better circulation, and so the slot win per unit was up 26%. The overall net revenue was up 7.6%.
Stephen A. Wynn:
And our performance on The Strip is regardless of size, whether we have less rooms or more rooms than anyone else. Our profitability on The Strip was the highest as it has been for quite some time. We had a lower hold percentage in the first quarter by about $10 million. So if you add the $10 million back, we're up in Las Vegas, and we're pacing for a very good year in 2014 as this hotel continues to gather market share and sort of take its place as the hotel of choice on The Strip.
Maurice Wooden:
So also in the month of April, Steve. So as we continue to look forward into the year, we've seen great pacing. We're, again, we're outpacing year-over-year, our numbers, and we've seen anywhere from, we believe in the second quarter will be 6% to 7% higher than previous year.
Stephen A. Wynn:
The reason I asked Maurice to do that, and I made those remarks a moment ago, there's always been a lot of talk the last couple of years from our colleagues up and down The Strip about, is Las Vegas recovering? And I've been a little reticent to say that we see it. And I must say that this year, for the first time, I'm willing to say that I see Las Vegas getting a footing that it hasn't had quite as clearly in the past. So I want to put myself in a category of guys that say, "I think Las Vegas is sort of growing into its additional capacity that was added in the past." The opening of the city center properties at the time that they did, as well as Encore. They came into the market at the worst possible time in terms of the national economy. And so we were oversupplied for a while. And finally, I think we're seeing this year that supply is getting utilized properly. So, so much for Maurice or Scott, unless you want to add something on Las Vegas, I think I feel good about it, better than I have in the past. Let's turn to China, and Matt, you want to talk about that?
Matthew O. Maddox:
Sure. I'll point out some things on our Macau results. $384 million of EBITDA with a 33% margin. Again, there were no lock impacts in direct or junket play. So that margin is stable, and what's interesting to point out is the flow-through. And if you compare our flow-through from revenue to EBITDA with the competitors, it's very, very strong. On the VIP side, 26% increase in turnover, 12% increase in Wynn. On our mass casino, we continue to reap -- move new -- replace tables in the -- from poor-performing mass areas into premium mass areas. In fact, we're up to 62 premium mass tables. We had 23% increase in mass revenue for the quarter. However, if you look at April with a lot of the changes we've made just in the last few weeks, April is up 55% in mass revenue, taking the first 4 months of mass to over 32%. So we're continuing to feel strong and -- in that market and growing quite well. Slots, again, outpacing the market growth between 30% and 40% -- by 30% to 40%. So our slot win was up almost 13%. I believe the overall market was around 10%. So we're continuing to take share in the slots business. And all of this, the $384 million, just to point out, in EBITDA, is about 25% to 30% more per position than any of our large competitors. So we get more bottom line money out of our units than anybody else.
Stephen A. Wynn:
So these 490-odd tables -- 492 tables in the Wynn, the Wynn Encore's 1,000-room complex on the Peninsula. We're 6 quarters away from going and adding another 552. So we're going to more than double our business. And in terms of the mass premium business, the entire hotel is a suite hotel, which is going to give us a very nice position in Cotai as far as capturing a fair share, if that's a modest term this time, capturing a fair share of the premium market business. And we'll take our VIP business into that market as well. So I'm feeling good about the position we're in. We're a little slower in our growth than some of the other guys because we started a little later as a company. The fact that we didn't begin this company until 2000, and really, get in business until 2005 in Las Vegas and '07 in Macau has put us behind in our maturity and our evolution as a company. Our age made it -- disqualified us from participating in Singapore, which was unfortunate. I would love to be able to play that one over again. But we're okay, now. We're okay now in our capital structure, our organization. Gamal and Ian are on the telephone from Macau. Gamal, maybe this is -- be a good time for you and Ian to give some comments on the Cotai project and anything, any observations you make about the Peninsula, Ian.
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
Sure. Steve, thank you. As far as Wynn Palace is concerned, I just visited the site early in the week, and we're in great shape there. We're making great progress on many areas, the energy center, the substation, the basement area, the casino area. We're basically completing structures, façade walls and also walked many of the other construction sites. And it looks like we're very, very much organized and right on target. And many of the areas that were supposed to be completed are completed on time. So I feel pretty good about where we stand construction-wise. And then also on the organization for Wynn Palace as far as the staffing and the leadership, we have brought on some incredible talent to be part of the opening and management of Wynn Palace. I feel that our position in Cotai is going to be very powerful as far as the destination that we are working on and we're creating. It's going to be a category killer, if you will, and...
Stephen A. Wynn:
Gamal, Gamal, for the sake of the folks that are following us, are we having any trouble finding construction employees so far?
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
Not at all. We're right on target. We have almost 2,000 construction workers on the site, and we should be at 3,000 by the end of October, which is also right on target. We're bringing them when they're supposed to be brought. As I said, I walked the site, and the level of activity is really outstanding, organized, clean, on time. Unlike some of the other sites that I walked, there seems to be a little bit of disorientation. But it looks like, from a labor standpoint, we absolutely have no problem with that.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Ian, Ian, in the Peninsula, you're in construction. I want to mention that we made a decision as a company, myself and Ian Coughlan and Gamal and Linda and the rest of the gang, that we wanted to make sure that when the Wynn Palace opened up in Cotai in 6 quarters, that under no circumstances would The Peninsula go to the back of the bus. That wasn't an acceptable alternative for us. And so, we decided to energize and look at everything in The Peninsula to make it more than competitive with anything we were doing, even in Cotai. And to that end, a year ago, we started planning and drawing a reconfiguration of the casino, the original Wynn casino on The Peninsula at Wynn Macau. That construction of new gaming areas has started and is underway, and we are fully permitted by the government. And we intend to open that for Chinese New Year, for the first quarter in '15. So that The Peninsula is going to have a rather dramatic reveal of new facilities a year before the Wynn Palace opens up. And the things that we're doing in the Wynn casino in Macau and The Peninsula are going to be -- I'm going to use the right word -- sort of startling in what they offer in terms of VIP gaming. So we're taking and making every energy and every move we know how to do to make sure that in this wonderful market, with such smart and clever competitors, that we stay on our toes and that we react with agility. And we're calling upon all of our reserves of good taste and design originality to make sure that we keep up with the very cool competitors that we have, who are a group of very smart men and women, are doing a wonderful job. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, in the next 60 months, between Hengqin Island and Cotai and Macau's Peninsula, that the Macau area, once the bridge is finished, will probably be the most robust destination tourist center in the world, competing with Orlando, Las Vegas and any other place on the planet. I see the future of the Macau area, the South China area that is principally defined by Macau and Hengqin Island, as probably the most exciting place to visit on the planet. I think all that is going to be true within the next 60 months. It's a credit to the government of Macau that they saw this coming, and they cooperated with the Government of Guangdong Province in this whole Hengqin Island business that's underway. It's quite extraordinary. Coupled with the bridge, if the investment community thinks that it's been exciting so far, you can strap on a seatbelt for the next 60 months because this is really terrific. And I think, unless any of my colleagues have anything to add, we'll leave it all now to questions. Go ahead.
Operator:
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Joseph Greff - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division:
The detailed information, I thought that was necessary and I think it's a perspective putting. And of course, since you're giving all that information, I'm probably going to ask you some more details about some of that great data. Particularly about your comment, Matt, about April being up 55% in mass. Can you talk about how you're thinking about shifting tables or aiming to yield improvements in table productivity between VIP and mass? When you look back at the 1Q of the 492 average tables, what's the split between mass and VIP? Where do you think you can get that? I know it's always optimizing in a moving environment, and it's not static, but if you can help us understand that, that would be great.
Matthew O. Maddox:
Sure. So in terms of the table split, we had 213 average tables in the mass casino in 1Q. And Joe, it's really not how many tables you have in mass, it's are they in the heavily trafficked areas? And so what we've been doing is converting some of our junket space on the Encore side of the casino into premium mass and reshuffling. And we're seeing large increases in the premium mass business, and April was it a good example of that. So it's really more about yielding the floor and having the right product in the right places. And the team on the ground there is working very hard on this, also, while we're doing this construction project in the original Wynn Casino.
Joseph Greff - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division:
Got it. We're often getting asked by investors about the credit quality. Obviously, in the first quarter, you actually had a contra expense reverse on the provision. I'm presuming that was in Macau, or can you clarify or talk about that a little bit?
Matthew O. Maddox:
Sure. It was $5 million credit in Macau because we collected receivables that were fully reserved, past 180 days. So it was no change in the way we account for things. We just collected things that were 100% reserved.
Stephen A. Wynn:
You know we're conservative, Joe, and that happens quite often with us. We tend to be a little skittish and nervous about credit reserves. And then, when the money comes in, our auditors jump on us and make us -- make the adjustment.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division:
Matt, you spent a lot of time talking about the mass details. And just -- would you guys mind, or is it possible to break out now, on an LTM basis or even in the quarter, what percentage of your EBITDA at the asset right now is coming from your mass floor relative to your VIP floor?
Matthew O. Maddox:
We haven't given those numbers in the past. And of course, we have them. Our competitors are doing it. I think that I can tell you, we do very well. That's why we make $384 million of EBITDA. So we are not buying the business in any of those segments, and it's flowing through.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division:
Understood. And just for clarity, I know a lot of times with the mass hold, that always becomes an issue on conference calls. Have you guys thought at all and maybe if you could give us some of the color around those thoughts about potentially providing that the window purchases in your denominator, to give a better sense of how hold is influencing, if at all?
Matthew O. Maddox:
We are looking at the right metrics. So what I would tell you is, just keep focusing on table win per unit and table win because you're right, there are a lot of purchases in the cages.
Stephen A. Wynn:
It's an interesting question to ask, but it doesn't get you any smarter, at least, we asked the question, and we don't get any smarter. We don't care. It is pretty steady win. And you know what the edge is in Baccarat, it's probably a 24%, 25% gain and -- at the end of the day -- but the drop or the purchase of chips and the -- like the way we measure it in Las Vegas, it's really not a productive exercise in China. Just look at the win per table. We've given up on that issue that you're worried about, that you're asking about. We don't see it as relevant.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division:
Understood. And then lastly, just moving over to Las Vegas. It looks as though the discounts and commission line was significantly down this quarter. It looked a little bit like the 2Q last year when I recall you guys had a credit collection during that period. Was there anything in the quarter in Las Vegas that may have been somewhat helpful?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Well, it's axiomatic that when the customers get lucky, the drop goes down, and the markers go down because most understand what happens in Las Vegas. The customers walk up to the Baccarat table in the private rooms, and we have a very, very strong grip on that kind of business in this town. They walk in to the table, and they say to the boss, "Let me have $1 million" and they have established credit. We put up a table marker, a lammer, a little round circle that's visible on television on our continuous taping. And we slide the money across. Now the guy plays. He goes up. He goes down. He wants to go to dinner. He leaves the money in front of him. There's no -- there is no drop yet. There is no handle. Until remember -- handle in a Las Vegas casino is made up of cash in the box and credit slips associated with markers as opposed to credit slips associated with chip returns when the rack is too full. Markers and cash make up drop. We don't have any drop unless the guy loses, which, in many cases, they don't sign the marker until they're ready to leave in 2 days. They leave the money on the table overnight. We lock it up with a case, but they're very superstitious about that. So there's only a table lammer up. So when a customer, let's say, plays for 6 hours and at the end of the thing, he's up, down, up, down a couple million dollars, but he's up $1 million. At the end of his play he slides the chips back and says, "Take down the mark -- the table marker," and there is no drop. So there is no credit. So when the win is down, credit is also down. When the casino holds a higher percentage, you will invariably see our marker, our receivables and our markers go up. But it's a peculiarity of the playing habits here and the tradition of Nevada that you're seeing, when you see these numbers at the end of the quarter. So when we say we're off $10 million in EBITDA because of the lower hold percentage, which is in the process of correcting itself as we speak, it'll be the same at the end of the year as it always is. That's why you see that strange sort of number for the first quarter.
Carlo Santarelli - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division:
And then, really quickly, just the extra Cotai parcels, have you guys put any more thought into how you're going to deal with that? And do you plan on doing pilings for that before you open, obviously, Wynn Palace?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Oh, yes. We have ground to cover in terms of entitlement from our government. And we are hard at work. We've made some submissions. We are hard at work, drawing -- I am working probably 4 days a week on it. And I have been for the past several months, and we're excited about what we're doing. It's all suites, all aimed at the mass premium. Every room we're building at Phase 2 is all living rooms, bedrooms. Every room's got a massage room. Every room's got a huge bathroom. Every room has a living room and huge television sets. There isn't a single chamber room in any of our Phase 2 buildings. Everything are suites. We're planting our flag at that end of the business and we're going to defend our ground strenuously.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
On The Peninsula, regarding the casino floor construction there, is there any reason to be concerned that your mass gaming momentum could be disrupted by the construction?
Stephen A. Wynn:
No, no. Construction has already been -- I'm sorry, Ian, you can answer if you want.
Ian Michael Coughlan:
Sure. There's going to be no disruption to our mass casino business and you can see that. We started the construction project on the 24th of March and we had a record mass month in April. So there's been no disruption. We've made sure that we've mitigated any of the construction noise. We've got a very innovative acoustic wall treatment in the casino, which we've been testing on a daily basis and there's been no disturbance. There's been very little falloff in the number of mass tables. There seems to be a myth out there that we've lost a lot of mass tables in the casino. We haven't, it's in the single digits in terms of quantity.
Stephen A. Wynn:
What we did is we hijacked the poker tables. Who was the lady that asked the question?
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
Felicia Hendrix.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Felicia, we hijacked the poker tables to cover it.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
Great. Smart, of course, right?
Stephen A. Wynn:
It was an easy decision.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
Right. Moving to the Wynn Palace, are you -- you've talked about and have given us details about the rooms and how those are going to be what -- they're going to be focused on the premium mass market. Are you ready to share the table mix at that property and how you're thinking about that in terms of percentage of your tables that will go to VIP and to grind mass and premium mass?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Well, Felicia, I think that you're in a position to make the judgment as well as we are. We do the same thing that you all do. We look at our results. We're moving, changing and adjusting tables just the way Mr. Adelson and Mr. Tracy do, or the fellows at Melco and Francis Lui and his people at Galaxy. And our mix, the percentages you're seeing now at Wynn and Encore at The Peninsula represents a pretty intelligent division. You'd probably be pretty close to that again, I would imagine. And would you say so, Ian? Is Linda on the call?
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
I think that you're right. This is Gamal, Steve. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, we're monitoring very closely, but the mix will be similar to what we have here. And we also have the flexibility of moving from one segment to the other. I mean, as you said earlier, Steve, the way we're building Wynn Palace, it's going to be extraordinarily beautiful, and you can easily move from one segment to the other.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Yes. For example, we -- because of the complications of smoking, all of our VIP and high-end rooms and Wynn club all have terraces that are on the lake. They have indoor-outdoor space, all of them. Well, any one of these big, so-called junket rooms can become premium mass instantaneously, and they all have food and beverage. And they have outdoor balconies, and they look at fountains very much like Bellagio and that kind of a thing. So we had this tremendous flexibility of being able to turn -- we made a decision in the design of this building, I think it's worth saying. We had a front, and we put a huge complicated water feature attraction in front. Now the question came up, "Who gets it?" A couple of our key restaurants, but what else goes on it? Do we put atriums and other public attractions there? Well, we put a gondola and we made a Disney kind of E-ride out of it. But we gave a lot of this beautiful space to gaming. We put our best foot forward with our highest-yielding customers, and we've also done it in a way that it's convertible. Flexibility is a very big thing in a market as dynamic as Macau. And that was one of the challenges that we faced in designing this building, that it would be ready to move in any direction in terms of the way it functioned. And that's probably one of the reasons why it took us so long to dope it out, but it's finished now. And I think that most of us are feeling pretty good about the flexibility that we built into it because we're facing a market that is, I say, dynamic and changing. And our competitors have lifted the game in a very intelligent and alert way, which has made us raise our game standard as well. So we've got this -- we've got terrific game flexibility, and we've got -- not only do we have game flexibility in terms of where we put -- about the amount of tables and whether they're in mass or in they're in premium mass or in they're in junket or in our own VIP program. But we've got flexibility with positions for these groups of tables that are really double sexy. So -- and that'll make a difference. That'll make a difference. When the smoke clears and the rhetoric stops, that'll be a big deal.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
Well, that's fantastic color. And Steve or Ian or Gamal, when you think about those beautiful premium mass-oriented rooms, have you all thought about how you're going to allocate those rooms to the premium mass casino player versus have them be in cash rooms?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Well, that's the point. We're not sure. You could take a look at our mix now, and that represents our best decision. But I think Ian and Gamal and everybody, they can talk about it themselves. They may change their mind.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
Well I'm talking about the -- on the hotel side.
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
Felicia, I'll just give you an example. Just in the last 2 weeks, we sat down with Linda, and we have migrated some of the VIP tables to premium mass with ease. So it's -- as Steve said earlier, we really have the flexibility and the beauty of the space itself allows you to move from one segment to the next without any trouble or construction work or any of that. This is really an ideal floor for us to move between VIP and junkets and premium mass.
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
I'm sorry, Gamal. I meant the hotel rooms in terms of...
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
Every hotel room is a stunning, beautiful room, and I think we have the different tiers of room to accommodate VIP, premium mass and mass. So we'll be in great shape as far as...
Felicia R. Hendrix - Barclays Capital, Research Division:
But when you -- what percentage will go to -- I guess I'm trying to ask what percentage do you think will just be cash rooms versus giving them to your casino players?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Well, we've got a cash room that's 700 square feet for that kind of customer, but the vast majority of the rooms are 900 square feet and up. Now they can be for cash or VIP or for junkets, but there's 1,700 of them. We only have 1,000 on The Peninsula now. These numbers that we're producing are only with a small room base of 1,000. And we're going to 1,700 in Phase 1 and double that in Phase 2.
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
Felicia, obviously, the entire inventory will be looked at with an eye towards yielding for the highest performance every single night. And if you look at our performance in the first quarter here in The Peninsula, you'll see that our occupancy has increased, our ADR has increased, our REVPAR has increased. And that comes from an orientation of looking at these rooms and making sure that we're achieving the highest yield per room on every single night. That same methodology and that same approach is going to happen in Cotai. We're basically going to give priority to the casino, but we will also be very aware of the extraordinary demand that's out there to allow some of these rooms to be sold in cash. So our goal is to achieve the highest occupancy with the highest rate.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.
Shaun C. Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division:
I just wanted to return to the subject on the VIP business because we are getting a lot of investor questions about what's going on in the market there. And Matt, as we've discussed this in the past, I think you guys are pretty aggressive about your timeline in terms of settlement with the junkets. And I was wondering if can you just give us any color, broader specific as to what you're seeing in terms of your collections with some of your big junket operators, and kind of any change in behavior or lack thereof that you've seen?
Matthew O. Maddox:
Sure. And so what you call aggressive, I call conservative. So we settle at the end of every month, and we do not roll anything. We do not advance more than 30 days, and it's settled at the end of every month. We have had no issues with any settlements in any of the months, and we're not seeing anything that would tell us that it's coming. In fact, we have the May Golden Week coming up here, and people seem pretty excited about it.
Shaun C. Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division:
I think that's good.
Stephen A. Wynn:
I get your question. We haven't seen it. No, no chance.
Shaun C. Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division:
I think that'll be very helpful for investors to hear. And then to just kind of follow through on that then, could you give us your latest mass versus EBITDA or mass versus VIP kind of EBITDA contribution, as you guys are focusing and shifting a little bit more towards mass and premium mass right now. Is that a statistic you could give us either for Q1 or maybe even for April, if you have it?
Matthew O. Maddox:
Yes, Shaun. We're -- people are talking about that a lot. We're not putting those numbers out right now, but we -- I can tell you there's a significant contribution from mass and slots to our EBITDA, as you know.
Shaun C. Kelley - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division:
Great, that's fair. And then last question would just be I think as people are looking longer term, they're asking us a lot about the theoretical cannibalization between your 2 properties, between what you're doing today at The Peninsula and obviously, the huge opportunity on Cotai. So could you just give us your thoughts on -- are you really approaching these or viewing these as 2 different markets? And kind of how do you think about or answer that question of the balance between the 2?
Stephen A. Wynn:
That's the $64 question. If you look at the Sands versus The Venetian and Mr. Adelson's new places, you see that the Sands' earnings are nowhere near what they were when he was alone. And therefore, you could make an inductive leap that they cannibalized the business. That's not really what happened, and it's not my job to talk for the Sands, but what I prefer, or because I think the question comes up because of that comparison or maybe because of the comparison of the place next door to us, StarWorld with Galaxy. But look here, look at this. We opened up Wynn and the other building years ago. The Wynn Encore facility has been existing for a while. In the meantime, all these magnificent new hotels like Galaxy and Venetian and all the improvements made by Lawrence Ho have opened, right? And what's happened to our earnings on The Peninsula? It went up. They went up. That is to say the expansion of -- the wonderful expansion of clever buildings on Cotai hasn't affected us in any way that's visible by any metric. And we're thrilled with the advance of our earnings right up until the moment that we made this phone call today. Now if that's true, it means that if you're careful, if you really tend to your roses in the properties like the Wynn Macau and Encore Macau, which were built to last -- I remember several years ago, on an annual report back in the days when we actually used to print annual reports, I put a cartoon on the cover of the report, and the cartoon on the left there were 3 pictures. There was a house of straw with a little pig laying there in a collapsed mode. Then there was a house of wood and the pig was collapsed and laying in a pile of wood. And there smoking a cigar on the roof of a house of bricks was a smart little piggy that built the house of bricks. I've always thought the 3 Little Pigs was one of the greatest business case studies of all time. And I've put on the top of our annual report, we build the houses of brick. And Wynn Macau Encore facility is a house of brick. And it has held its market share against massive multibillion-dollar expansions on Cotai, and has done nothing but grow as of this morning. So when we add in terms of total footage of tables, a rather small increment at Cotai, we believe that our market share will continue to hold its own, both at The Peninsula. And I know that Ian Coughlan, my Irish President, CEO in China, is a brutally competitive man. And I know that he has absolutely no intention of allowing that building to be scavenged, if that's the right word. You hear him cackling in the background there. Am I speaking for you, Ian?
Ian Michael Coughlan:
No, you keep writing the checks and I keep the place running, which is great. There's room in this city for 2 awesome properties, Steve, and the rejuvenation of Wynn Macau will keep it at the top.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Gamal, what do you say to that?
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
I think we're in phenomenal shape. And I think the question that you just asked, Shaun, makes a lot of sense, but if you see the level of demand in Cotai and you see what has been built successfully in Cotai, and imagine what Mr. Wynn has been describing as Wynn Palace that we're going to open, you realize that we're going to have extraordinary demand for our property there without touching what's happening here on The Peninsula. And I feel very, very good about what's happening as far as the diversion between the 2 and the profile of customers that they will attract.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Another thing about our Peninsula property that's worth remembering from time to time, we are very lucky, and luck is a word for it, that we were granted the opportunity to build on the site that we built on The Peninsula. We are surrounded on 3 sides by Stanley Ho's building and Ambrose So and Louis Ng and Angela, they have the building across the street from us on the main boulevard. Then they're on our right on 24 June, I guess it is the Avenue 24 June, with the Arc and StarWorld, and then on the south, MGM. We are surrounded on 3 sides. So we're in this crossfire. The Wynn Macau Encore facility has doors on every corner that face the doors of our neighbors. And the distance that separates us is the width of a street. This sort of crisscross traffic doesn't exist in Cotai. Everybody has to walk. Even you have to walk between The Venetian and the Four Seasons is a longer walk. So even though all of us over there are building highly integrated facilities with retail, food and beverage, entertainment and gaming, the distances you traverse are much greater than those in The Peninsula. So it is the nature of the customer to like to change their luck and to jump from place to place. And the junket operators, of course, have rooms in all the places. The distance from MGM to Wynn is 70 feet, same thing with Arc and StarWorld and SJM. So these are some of the factors that play into the fact that our position in The Peninsula is geographically strategically highly protected. And I think that's part of the reason we've grown so wonderfully in the last few years. I think all these things play into the answer to your question, is that we're going to hold our spot, and we're going to hold most or all of our EBITDA and then add to it in 6 quarters from now.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division:
I heard your comments about -- I haven't seen a change in VIP. I wonder if you could give us the same color on VIP in April that you did for mass in terms of what your percent increase is? And then I have a follow-up to that.
Stephen A. Wynn:
What did you say, Robin? I'm sorry you wanted color on what?
Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division:
You gave a specific percent increase in mass for the month of April. And I wonder if you could provide similar for VIP given your comments that you have not seen a slowdown of any kind?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Oh, okay, sure. Well, I know that our EBITDA is ahead again in April.
Matthew O. Maddox:
And VIP is up around 10%, which is in line. That's where it's been pacing. So again, we saw a double-digit increase in VIP in April.
Gamal Mohammed Abdelaziz:
But, Matt, it's also good to mention we outpaced the market in April also on the VIP. So we're in great shape.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division:
Great. And then I know you said there hasn't been a change in kind of the repayment cycle with the junkets that you deal with directly. But I guess that wouldn't necessarily be the first sign of any kind of slowdown. So I wonder if you could talk about what you hear from further down the line of -- who -- the junkets lending out to the agents, lending out to the players. What do they -- what concerns them about bank liquidity and their own personal liquidity? Anything along those lines, not that it would be showing up in your numbers at this point.
Stephen A. Wynn:
I don't think -- if they have those kinds of thoughts, Robin, they're keeping it to themselves. We haven't had that discussion when last time I talked to Linda, and I asked her specifically about are they saying anything, what do they feel like? She said, she shrugged her shareholders, no. So we're not hearing it from them, if I understand your question. Robin, remember, it's not a massive group. It's a group of very successful people. But if -- when you think of the demographics, the orders of magnitude of People's Republic of China and Hong Kong and Taiwan, we're dealing with a very creamy top end of them. Even in the mass area, we're dealing with the better group, in terms of income.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division:
I understood. But in theory, a slowdown in liquidity could still affect their personal liquidity, even at the highest...
Ian Michael Coughlan:
They're prudent businesspeople, and they're watching macroeconomics in China just like we are. And they're being careful and prudent and conservative at times. And they've been like that for the 7.5 years that we've been operating. So the song remains the same.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Chinese GDP has slowed down from 10% to 8% to 7%. But the number is so big. 7% is still a robust number. I think when we talk about the Chinese bubble, which is a subject now that makes the rounds on Wall Street, I'm not sure that we're buying into that. Generally speaking, most people I know in America really don't get China that much. They're usually behind in their understanding of China, especially a lot of people who pontificate about it, many of them have never been there.
Matthew O. Maddox:
I think one thing that's important to point out, the corporate credit questions and issues that people talk about in China are very different from the consumer credit. And consumers in China and even in Macau are seeing their wages increase by 15% to 20%. So there's a very different story with the consumer than there is with these large -- with the corporate credits. And so I wouldn't get those confused.
Robin M. Farley - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division:
No, as I understood it, what that consumers and wages probably affects the mass market more than VIP, but anyway...
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Jon Oh with CLSA.
Jon T. Oh - CLSA Limited, Research Division:
If I can just ask you a question on your capital structure, how do you think of it as it evolves over the next couple of years? And as we expect the Cotai opening and another $4 billion to be spent on the second phase of Cotai, how do you think of the right amount of leverage that you're comfortable on the balance sheet?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Well, we finished our financing recently. The last tranche was a $750,000 -- $750 million bond. We sold it at 5.09 with no covenants nonrecourse to the parent. And that brought our total financing for Cotai to $3,850,000,000 at an average cost of 3.3%. Or to put it another way, we rented the $3.85 billion for $125 million. Now on one hand, as a businessman, I'm thrilled. Never dreamt that we would see anything so tasty and wonderful as that. On the other hand, it's a reflection of questionable fiscal and monetary policy in the United States that is artificially depressed interest rates because of quantitative easing by the Fed, which is also sort of killing the value of the dollar and the living standard of the working people. So the good news is, if you're a high-class borrower with good credit rating, this is one of the most tastiest seasons of all time for 2 reasons. You're borrowing money at artificially depressed rates. And you're most likely going to pay them back with 85-cent dollars. It's a perfect storm for a businessperson unless you look at the truth of the matter and the impact it has on your customers and your employees. And that's a much darker story. It doesn't lend itself to a soundbite, but it's -- for every businessman in America and any economist that has their heads screwed on right, it's an ominous situation. But in terms of our moment in history, in commercial history and our projects in Cotai, along with our colleagues in the industry, it's nirvana. Capital structure now is -- these are mostly at the Venetian and the Wynn, things of beauty. They're lovely, better than you could ever want. I mean, they've got everything, low interest rates, long maturities, low covenants. What else do you want? I mean, it's great. If you look at it from our point of view, look at it from a consumers' point of view or a working person's point of view, who's paying for all this cheap money? Well, right now, the Fed is. I thought Bernie Madoff went to jail for that. But anyway, that's my answer about your capital structure.
Jon T. Oh - CLSA Limited, Research Division:
Okay, great. If I can just follow up with a detail that I think you had in your prepared remarks. You've mentioned 552 tables, I think, at Wynn Cotai if I heard that correctly. How much confidence do you have in that table count allocation for your Cotai project? And maybe if I can think about it differently, what do you think's the minimum that you would need to achieve the kind of economics to be proportionate to the amount of investment you've put together?
Stephen A. Wynn:
I'll answer your first question with one word, high. My level of confidence in the 552? High. We don't make these decisions in a vacuum, you understand, all right?
Jon T. Oh - CLSA Limited, Research Division:
Yes, maybe if I can just push...
Stephen A. Wynn:
I don't know what else to say about this. I've answered your question.
Operator:
Your next question comes from the line of Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs.
Steven E. Kent - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division:
Steve, could you just talk about the Palace as to what will make it a must-see hotel? You gave a little bit of color on it, but I guess what I'm trying to get at, looking at what you've built in the past is it -- is the focus to try and get all people in to see it? Or is it to target the high end? Is it the ability to bring in mass market to see the property and play or the high end to stay and play? And I think that's just a little bit different than what's occurred in Vegas over the years, where it was really just to bring everybody in to see the hotels. And I feel like this is a little bit of a different strategy for the hotel. And then specifically on Wynn Macau, occupancy of 98%, REVPAR at $331, higher -- highest it's ever been. How are you able to keep that Wynn Cotai fresh and attract that level of occupancy levels? Maybe you could give some specific things that you've changed over the past 6 months that allows that to be the market leader?
Stephen A. Wynn:
The answer to that 2-part question requires an investment conference all of its own.
Steven E. Kent - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division:
We're ready to host it for you.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Thank you, but we've always tried to get everybody in to see the property. Why else would you build volcanoes and pirate ships that sink and fountains that dance? This time, gondolas that go through the fountains that go into the building, atria on the north and south, with floors that open and gorgeous huge sculptures come up. Ferris wheels and merry go rounds, and peacocks, whose tails open. And 25-foot tall all-floral sculptures of a Faberge Egg that opens with a surprise inside, that change every month in both atriums. You'd only do that if you were trying to attract the whole world. Those are public entertainment attractions. That's just where we start with this attempt to attract everybody. I spent a couple of years designing this hotel with my colleagues so that it will be the photo op of South China. And it will be. That's to get everybody in. Then when it comes to the inside of the building, we make it user-friendly and irresistible, at least in our ambition, irresistible in terms of the user-friendliness for mass players, shoppers, diners. We entertain. We've made showrooms out of our restaurants with actual stages and walls that open and close, with entertainment behind them in restaurants because people shop and eat and gamble in China. So they don't necessarily go to showrooms every night because it's the same people all the time. They eat every time they come, so I went and put the entertainment in the restaurants. This is a new idea that we had where we made the restaurants the theaters. The whole place is an entertainment platform. And as far as the VIP, you heard us talk about it extensively earlier in this conversation. We've gone to extraordinary lengths to make a high-end player, whether he's playing with a junket operator or he's playing on our credit or he's a cash player, is a premium mass, is the term everybody uses for this customer. Mass-market high-limit player, whose playing areas very much resemble a high-limit pit in Las Vegas. We've opened the door to everybody, and that's the answer to the first part of your question. And to the extent that I had enough room on The Peninsula, I tried to do it Downtown Macau, but I only had a certain -- I only had 900 feet of frontage. It was only a 14-acre site. So our ability to stretch out and do theater was a little bit limited, but we still have the Tree of Prosperity, that whole lobby, and the fountains in the front. When it comes to the second part of your question, which has to do with how do we keep our occupancy and our REVPARs dynamic. Is that right, Steve? Is that what you said at Cotai?
Steven E. Kent - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division:
Yes, I mean, it's just...
Stephen A. Wynn:
It seemed to me the answer to the question is we'll do exactly what we're doing on The Peninsula, working every sector of the market, creating -- listen, the only thing left to do in the industry that we're in, in spite of all the technology, in spite of all the imagination, the only thing left to do, and I don't mind being quoted about this, and I don't mind saying it because I know all my competitors are listening, is to do the basics better. I'll say it again. The only way you take this to another level is by doing every little thing better, from human resources, every aspect of services, purchasing, interior designing, including lighting, as well as the decorative elements and fixturization of the place. Everything has to be better. And the only reason our REVPAR and our EBITDA per table is better than the rest of the guys is because we subscribe relentlessly to that principle. So if we build another hotel, whether it's in Japan or Boston or Las Vegas or Macau, we only have one move that we know how to make. And we've always made it. Think of the Golden Nugget of Atlantic City, out earned everybody even though it was the smallest place, out grossed and out earned everybody on the boardwalk in the peak years. Think of the Golden Nugget downtown, out earned and out grossed, had over half of the profits of downtown Fremont Street. Think of the day that the Mirage opened. We have owned the leading casino on The Strip every single minute that we've been in business for 47 years. Think of Macau. The most profitable place per foot, per table is Wynn Macau. Obviously, there's a common idea that is a thread through all of this. So what is Cotai going to be? The most expensive, the most carefully thought-out and the largest place we've ever built in terms of gaming capacity. Nothing new, Steve, same old stuff, but it's worked every single time without exception. The most successful largest-grossing casino on the Gulf Coast is Beau Rivage, never has changed. We've never not dominated with a facility we've built pound for pound any market we've ever been in for 47 years. But we've never had an organization as clever and as deep and as rich in talent as we do now, all of this, thanks to Macau, which has attracted wonderful people, not just to our company, but to all the companies. There's a lot of brainy executives, men and women, at work in Macau, taking advantage of this incredible business opportunity that the government has afforded us. As far as our own company goes, we've got a very simple track record that has been totally consistent. In 1997, on the cover of Fortune Magazine, we were the second most admired company the country. The reason is that we only have total focus on every single detail of the hospitality business, including the gambling part, which is only part of it. And that's the answer to your question about REVPAR and occupancy. Those are symptoms. Those are effects. The cause is our focus and our energy on the detail.
Operator:
Your final question comes from the line of Harry Curtis with Nomura.
Harry C. Curtis - Nomura Securities Co. Ltd., Research Division:
Just a quick question on Japan. Steve, if you could assess your position there, please?
Stephen A. Wynn:
Very much like Sheldon Adelson's or KT Lim's or Jim Murren's, I would say. We have our top people, including ourselves, visiting Japan, meeting with members of the government. They're visiting here in some cases. We're meeting with business leaders in various companies, big companies in Japan. We're trying to understand the political realities at the moment, and doing our best to position ourselves intelligently so that when and if we understand the business opportunity when it matures, and I think it's well on its way to doing it. I think probably the chances of it happening in Japan are greater today than they ever have been before. I think that we're going to have a very clear understanding of the direction the market takes by the -- by June when the diet [ph] ends -- acts as I believe it may very well do on this study bill, which will then create a set up for the actual process, which will take place in 2015. I think there's some talk that there would be -- there's some people that would like to have facilities that aid in tourism and excitement up and operating for the Olympics in 2020. That's an ambitious schedule. The government will have to act with alacrity in order to allow something like that to happen in Tokyo, Osaka or...
Matthew O. Maddox:
Okinawa.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Okinawa. So that's what's going on in Japan. We're all doing the same thing. We're all buzzing around there, trying to get ourselves in proper position. And at the end of the day, it'll be about track record. It'll be about reputation, capital structure. I think it should be anyway. Who can do the job? Who can prove they can do the job? That's the question. And there's a couple of companies who can answer that question affirmatively, it would seem to me, and that have the capital structure to do it as well. I think Venetian -- I think Sheldon is listening. He's paying close attention to this. I know KT Lim is paying close attention to it. I know that MGM is. I guess, Caesars as well. They have other problems as far as money goes, but maybe they'll be in position when this happens to put their best foot forward, but everybody's there. Oh, I'm sure that the Melco people, Packer and his partner, Lawrence Ho, will put their foot in. We'll see. Still a little early, but it's moving. That's it.
Operator:
There are currently no further phone questions.
Stephen A. Wynn:
Thanks, everybody. Speak to you next time.
Operator:
Again, thank you for your participation. This concludes today's conference. You may now disconnect.